Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Iso Octane]

New observation: the momentum when a car "spins out" in oversteer seems to be too much. Feels like car has too much rotational energy. Try doing donuts for example with full throttle and full counter steer once you get it spinning; the car seems to want to keep spinning in the same direction without losing much rotational momentum compared to before. [Edit, I might be wrong]

MR cars feel much more rear weight biased as well.

 

[LSFDRX]

Okay, let me say this. New update sucks hard. Cars are undriveable. All cars had been hit by understeer fixes. I'm on T300RS and all cars felt numb, it's just faux weight sensation when I turned the FFB settings up. Also cars are felt like they're not driving on track, it felt they're up in the air.
I can't even brake properly, no trailbraking. Also hated the Eiger. All my car felt no grip whatsoever there. The undulation wasn't great with the new suspension.
If they're saying new update bring the physics more closer to sim racing, there's no way sim racing are like this.

I'm on T300RS (torque 5, sensitivity 2) as well and while there are some cars that are broken and there's definitely a lot of things that need fixing, there are many vehicles that are much better. Take the 992 GT3RS for example... it came alive with the update. All the GR4s are great now, GR3s are pretty good, and many other cars drive really well too.

It's strange you specifically mention trail-braking to be an issue, because it's fairly universally accepted that proper trail-braking plays a huge part in finding good pace now.

If you think all the cars are undrivable I'd wager the problem lies more with you than the equipment or game. FWIW I'm faster in the Time Trials than I was before using the same wheel you are.


@Iso Octane I agree, but think this is something that was very present before the update too. Weight just seems to keep pushing, tires seem to keep spinning after throttle is dropped, tire temps come and go whenever (leading to wildly varying grip/slip and terrible drifting), and other weirdness leads to a poor physics model when flirting with traction limits. As a motorsports fanatic, it really pains me to watch say, a rally escort blasting down a stage with controlled oversteer and slip, or classic cars racing at Goodwood in perpetual controllable slides, because these very normal characteristics of car control are almost completely absent from GT7.

 

[VXR]

Thoroughly enjoying how it is currently on a controller. The sense of front end bite via the vibration is quite impressive. I don't use the haptic triggers as I can't stand them.

 

[hawkeyez]

I’m starting to think everything off putting I feel in the G Pro wheel is directly related to this suspension/tires physics update. I think they’ve gone and softened up the suspension compression rebound too much and the tires almost seem like they’re somewhere between where they used to be. Like a comfort soft is a bit closer to a sports hard than before. Could be wrong, whatever it is, don’t like it.

 

[wheelhp]

Okay, let me say this. New update sucks hard. Cars are undriveable. All cars had been hit by understeer fixes. I'm on T300RS and all cars felt numb, it's just faux weight sensation when I turned the FFB settings up. Also cars are felt like they're not driving on track, it felt they're up in the air.
I can't even brake properly, no trailbraking. Also hated the Eiger. All my car felt no grip whatsoever there. The undulation wasn't great with the new suspension.
If they're saying new update bring the physics more closer to sim racing, there's no way sim racing are like this.

Try max torque at 5 and FFB sensitivity all the way up to 10. On logitech wheels setting ffb sensitivty to 10 fixed almost all my issues with impossible countersteering and trail braking. Id advise everyone to try this setting out before writing off the new physics. There are serious ffb response issues depending on what wheel you have. But the actual ingame physics have improved in fidelity and realism and will continue to improve via updates.

 

[Iso Octane]

New observation: the momentum when a car "spins out" in oversteer seems to be too much. Feels like car has too much rotational energy. Try doing donuts for example with full throttle and full counter steer once you get it spinning; the car seems to want to keep spinning in the same direction without losing much rotational momentum compared to before. [Edit, I might be wrong]

MR cars feel much more rear weight biased as well.

I'm going to partially take this back. Maybe it's car dependent, but I'm having a drive right now in an e92 M3 for example and I can pull out of a donut just fine. Can't remember what car I was using that led me to that previous observation.

Still remains though that the cars feel like they have more rotational momentum when you lose the rear, but this not a complaint at all.

... classic cars racing at Goodwood in perpetual controllable slides, because these very normal characteristics of car control are almost completely absent from GT7.

When it comes to this I think GT7 does a pretty good job! Shallow angle drifting with good momentum and not relying too much on power is quite easy and enjoyable actually. Maybe try FFB settings as per above?

 

[chengman]

Another thing I've noticed since the update is a lot of cars now bottom out at foxhole on the Nurburgring in stock form. The borked damping model is probably the reason why.

 

[MadMax]

After grinding Licenses for two weeks on 1.49 and doing them again on 1.50 I can tell the cars are now less tailhappy & slides are easier to catch. (less weight transfer)

Spoiler: Licenses

And the FFB got a bit better tq10 sens10 (G29)
Used these settings since day 1.

 

[Pilot625]

After grinding Licenses for two weeks on 1.49 and doing them again on 1.50 I can tell the cars are now less tailhappy & slides are easier to catch. (less weight transfer)

Spoiler: Licenses

And the FFB got a bit better tq10 sens10 (G29)
Used these settings since day 1.

I have a Fanatec DDPro and change the in game setting for the car. So far I have about 10 different settings that are ideal for each car. Its a bit annoying to keep track of but do you think the G29 would be similar.

There is no way the settings for a GR4 car are the same as for some of the GR1 cars. Once I did some in game changes everything fell into place.

I love this update so much I can’t stop playing the game. Its like buying a new game but free.

 

[LSFDRX]

Found another car thats been negatively affected by the update.

The Castrol Supra now has almost no feedback despite the FFB being somewhat heavy. It just plows through corners now, almost immediately locks up and pushes under braking, is very hesitant to turn in at all, and generally never comfortably rests in any form of confident traction.

Using it in this weeks WTC 800 race at Suzuka, even with RS tires (which I rarely use), the dopey AI could basically walk around me on the outside of corners... and most of them were on RH tires. Even at speed with downforce traction/feedback didn't improve, nor did it under braking, or anywhere else for that matter. It just understeers away every time. Even with a lot of early braking and careful compensation it still lived in a state of constant understeer. Strangely, switching to IM tires barely felt different from RS... something ain't right here.

Most other Gr3 cars handle well, but for some reason now the Supra is lifeless, tractionless and just about useless.

Funnily enough I still won that dumb race with it because of the AIs insane pit strategy, but now the Supra has joined the ranks of the "won't drive after 1.50 club" with the MP4/4, SF19/23, all the EVOs , E36 M3, Gallardo, and many others that don't behave correctly any more.

Some of those used to be my favorite cars to drive too. It's so strange, because so many other cars are now brilliant to drive. The Gr2 NSX I used in todays TT is amazing! The FL5 Type-R, 992 GT2RS, EK/EG Civics and others are simply great now.

There's some real fishy stuff going on behind the curtains of 1.49/1.50 for some cars to be so right, and some being so wrong.

 

[chengman]

My R34 got confused by the circuit and thought it was on a rally gravel stage. This is just a small portion of the bouncing I had. Looks like any 4wd vehicle with high grip tires is susceptible to bouncing no matter what you do with the suspension.

 

[05XR8]

Looks pretty accurate to me.

 

[KAlex122]

Can someone take the R32 Nismo '90 to the Clubman Cup Plus at Watkins Glen (600PP, Sport Soft tires) and tell me it feels horrible wobbly on standard suspension?

I tried custom suspension afterwards but am not able to find a setup that's much better.

 

[05XR8]

Can someone take the R32 Nismo '90 to the Clubman Cup Plus at Watkins Glen (600PP, Sport Soft tires) and tell me it feels horrible wobbly on standard suspension?

I tried custom suspension afterwards but am not able to find a setup that's much better.

One of the problems I’ve found is I’m having to stiffen the springs at maximum. When I had my suspensions at F2.80/R2.60, ARB F5/R5, I was getting too much instability after the update. Once I set them at whatever maximum Frequency for whatever car, I’m not having that problem on the cars I use.

Just ran that race with this setting. It’s my Group A setting. Just detuned and switched tyres.

 

[KAlex122]

Thanks! Will try at home.

 

[mynameis66]

One of the problems I’ve found is I’m having to stiffen the springs at maximum. When I had my suspensions at F2.80/R2.60, ARB F5/R5, I was getting too much instability after the update. Once I set them at whatever maximum Frequency for whatever car, I’m not having that problem on the cars I use.

Just ran that race with this setting. It’s my Group A setting. Just detuned and switched tyres.
View attachment 1383584

This is what ive found needed to be done to some of my cars, unrealistic suspension settings seems to be a bandaid fix for now,until an update is added.Though at this moment there is nothing on the known issues tab on the website,do PD not see it as an issue?

 

[Marcus Garvey]

SS tyres are faster than a Hoosier R7 in real life. A full race tyre. To manage a tyre like that you will want frequencies in the 3-3.5hz range in real life. It's not a band aid to run those rates with a tyre like that, that's how you would run them in real life.

The game doesn't really communicate very well what tyres are what, so people put on Sports tyres and think it's a sporty street tyre, when its grip and pace is really a full on slick with a few grooves in it. The problem lies in that the natural frequency setting for many of the street cars in game doesn't go up very high. But in real life on a super sticky tyre like that, I would be running over 3.0 natural frequency if the car had a decent suspension geometry, or more if it had struts.

 

[chengman]

SS tyres are faster than a Hoosier R7 in real life. A full race tyre. To manage a tyre like that you will want frequencies in the 3-3.5hz range in real life. It's not a band aid to run those rates with a tyre like that, that's how you would run them in real life.

The game doesn't really communicate very well what tyres are what, so people put on Sports tyres and think it's a sporty street tyre, when its grip and pace is really a full on slick with a few grooves in it. The problem lies in that the natural frequency setting for many of the street cars in game doesn't go up very high. But in real life on a super sticky tyre like that, I would be running over 3.0 natural frequency if the car had a decent suspension geometry, or more if it had struts.

I've always felt that SS felt like pilot sport Cup 2 R tires. The problem is the new suspension model is completely messed up when it comes to handling large load case scenarios on anything that's not GR3/4

 

[05XR8]

SS tyres are faster than a Hoosier R7 in real life. A full race tyre. To manage a tyre like that you will want frequencies in the 3-3.5hz range in real life. It's not a band aid to run those rates with a tyre like that, that's how you would run them in real life.

The game doesn't really communicate very well what tyres are what, so people put on Sports tyres and think it's a sporty street tyre, when its grip and pace is really a full on slick with a few grooves in it. The problem lies in that the natural frequency setting for many of the street cars in game doesn't go up very high. But in real life on a super sticky tyre like that, I would be running over 3.0 natural frequency if the car had a decent suspension geometry, or more if it had struts.

Yes, this. In the earlier GT games I tried to tune my cars to the Hot Version cars, but the suspensions were still limited unless it were like a Spoon EK or Amuse S2000.
Some cars I could get more accurate kg settings like this Spirits MR-S. Majority of road cars spring rates wouldn’t go as high as the RX-8 and E36 when equipped with fully customised suspensions.


PD were partnered with KW(don’t know if they still are), all cars should be able to use a race suspension like fitted to their respective race car variants.

 

[Omiyup]

Try max torque at 5 and FFB sensitivity all the way up to 10. On logitech wheels setting ffb sensitivty to 10 fixed almost all my issues with impossible countersteering and trail braking. Id advise everyone to try this setting out before writing off the new physics. There are serious ffb response issues depending on what wheel you have. But the actual ingame physics have improved in fidelity and realism and will continue to improve via updates.

I tried turning the torque to 7 and after 10 laps, the steering become suddenly light like torque on 1/2. I never experienced like this before on 4 (my previous setup is 4/6, now 7/10)

 

[Fredzy]

I’ve become an Assetto convert but the last year or so I found the only times I fire it up is to practice for track days at tracks that aren’t in GT. I got pretty comfortable with GT7 as my go-to driving itch scratcher. I barely touched it since July though, busy summer. Finally fired it up recently and nothing but problems. New FFB is definitely good in some cars (T300RS, PS4) but a few of my favorite cars are a nightmare. Had to do some mods/tuning to even drive them - it is rare for me to turn a wrench in GT these days.

Anyhow, my big problem is some cars (seemingly not all) have this horrible steering glitch where it wrenches the wheel to the left, usually on long fast straights. A little searching found a few oddball folks over the years with this issue but .. I’m at a loss. Any idea if it might just be the game, or could I do something to fix? Latest firmware, made sure the PS4 controller was turned off. The wheel doesn’t do anything weird in AC.

 

[xDriver69x]

I’ve become an Assetto convert but the last year or so I found the only times I fire it up is to practice for track days at tracks that aren’t in GT. I got pretty comfortable with GT7 as my go-to driving itch scratcher. I barely touched it since July though, busy summer. Finally fired it up recently and nothing but problems. New FFB is definitely good in some cars (T300RS, PS4) but a few of my favorite cars are a nightmare. Had to do some mods/tuning to even drive them - it is rare for me to turn a wrench in GT these days.

Anyhow, my big problem is some cars (seemingly not all) have this horrible steering glitch where it wrenches the wheel to the left, usually on long fast straights. A little searching found a few oddball folks over the years with this issue but .. I’m at a loss. Any idea if it might just be the game, or could I do something to fix? Latest firmware, made sure the PS4 controller was turned off. The wheel doesn’t do anything weird in AC.

Is this PS4? What wheel are you using? Is it connected directly to the back of the PS with original cable, not through a switch or cheap amazon cable?

 

[Fredzy]

Is this PS4? What wheel are you using? Is it connected directly to the back of the PS with original cable, not through a switch or cheap amazon cable?

PS4, T300RS. I’ve been using an extension cable for years (and I know that a cheap one = problems!) but I might try removing it to see if that somehow changes. It could be wearing out/dirty contacts, or maybe GT7 is more sensitive to perfect signal now. I struggled with it not working properly on PC Assetto for a while (while at the same time worked perfectly on GT7) until I found out it was the cheap extension cable causing the issue and got a new one that must have been better, solved the issues.

 

[hawkeyez]

PS4, T300RS. I’ve been using an extension cable for years (and I know that a cheap one = problems!) but I might try removing it to see if that somehow changes. It could be wearing out/dirty contacts, or maybe GT7 is more sensitive to perfect signal now. I struggled with it not working properly on PC Assetto for a while (while at the same time worked perfectly on GT7) until I found out it was the cheap extension cable causing the issue and got a new one that must have been better, solved the issues.

There is funky stuff happening with the suspension. I had a chevelle tune that was pretty much stable as could be, just raced it last night on road atlanta… dear god, turning in fine until it just grabs and spins me right around. Sometimes doing similar to what you posted on small wheel movements.

I think they’ve softened up the suspension big time or messed something up there and I think maybe a lot of cars have the tire hitting the fenders or something inside. Like if you have the wheel turned a little and hit a bump it freaks out big time.

Like you say, some cars aren’t affected. It’s not doing the wheel chop like when I wide tire and wide offset the Shelby mustang. Around corners the wheel would freak out. But it feels like that, an effect you just can’t have any control over. Almost like the wheel grabs and gets stuck in the wheel well.

I noticed a lot of people have said buy a suspension and stiffen up the suspension a bunch…. It does work… but I also like to drive bone stock vehicles. 😔

 

[Fredzy]

There is funky stuff happening with the suspension. I had a chevelle tune that was pretty much stable as could be, just raced it last night on road atlanta… dear god, turning in fine until it just grabs and spins me right around. Sometimes doing similar to what you posted on small wheel movements.

I think they’ve softened up the suspension big time or messed something up there and I think maybe a lot of cars have the tire hitting the fenders or something inside. Like if you have the wheel turned a little and hit a bump it freaks out big time.

Like you say, some cars aren’t affected. It’s not doing the wheel chop like when I wide tire and wide offset the Shelby mustang. Around corners the wheel would freak out. But it feels like that, an effect you just can’t have any control over. Almost like the wheel grabs and gets stuck in the wheel well.

I noticed a lot of people have said buy a suspension and stiffen up the suspension a bunch…. It does work… but I also like to drive bone stock vehicles. 😔

Yeah the fact that some cars do it for me, some cars don’t, and Assetto is completely fine rules it out as the wheel for me. Just tinkered with it a little more, removed extension cable etc with no improvement. If I had to guess there is some sort of FFB/physics error occurring in the game. I’ll keep my eyes on GTP hoping for another update soon.

 

[Nebuc72]

Yeah the fact that some cars do it for me, some cars don’t, and Assetto is completely fine rules it out as the wheel for me. Just tinkered with it a little more, removed extension cable etc with no improvement. If I had to guess there is some sort of FFB/physics error occurring in the game. I’ll keep my eyes on GTP hoping for another update soon.

It's either the wheels getting stuck in the wheel arches due to the ride height (which has always been possible, and always reacted kind of weirdly in cockpit view) or, most likely, something weird going on with the suspension after 1.49.

If you can, see what the wheels look like from outside the car when it happens. It wouldn't surprise me if you can see them lifting or jerking up/down. There's quite a few cars that are broken now.

 

[TumeK5]

big problem is some cars (seemingly not all) have this horrible steering glitch where it wrenches the wheel

What a coincidence, I just drove the same car in the same race to do the Weekly Challenge.

Yep, this car is busted along with the Evos. The issue happens at high speed, when the suspension's compression is tested.

Stock setup, Sports Mediums

 

[Kriptical]

I’ve noticed that when you get a car with the steering wheel continuous turn in bug it borkes(weakens) the ffb until you reboot. It might not be noticeable with a wheel on lower settings, but it’s obvious when your in game ffb is cranked.

 

[chengman]

What a coincidence, I just drove the same car in the same race to do the Weekly Challenge.

Yep, this car is busted along with the Evos. The issue happens at high speed, when the suspension's compression is tested.

Stock setup, Sports Mediums

Gran Turismo: The real crashing simulator

 

[hawkeyez]

I swear it’s tires hitting inside of fenders. What disappoints me most is a stock Pantera widebodied with wide tires wide offset, now has fender rub and it never had it before. Loved driving that car stock except having widebodied wide tires wide offset and some aero. I wonder what made them decide to change the suspension and tire physics?