Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Obelisk]

Oh no.
My worst fears have been confirmed.
We are back to the pre 1.49 physics model.
Great job PD.
So disappointing.
And such a huge step backwards again.
Why PD... just why 😢

Edit:
Same goes for the ABS Algorithm.
We are back to nonsensical stomp the brake the car keeps stable ABS Physics.
In combination with the altered Handling Simulation Physics, it means we are basically left with just the improved Tire Update which is still in tact thankfully.
Absolute garbage imo.
But hey we got to deal with what the majority asks for I guess, be it reasonable or not.
Yet again it is what it is.

I am kinda skeptical of this claim. I just took my E36 M3 to Eiger - FFB feels like it went back to pre 1.49, but the behavior and pace of my M3 still feels like it's post 1.49. I suspect whatever they adjusted is a bit closer to 1.48, but the tire model and most of the suspension feel is still past 1.49.

IMO we need more people to try the physics out before we jump to conclusions.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I am kimda skeptical of this claim. I just took my E36 M3 to Eiger - FFB feels like it went back to pre 1.49, but the behavior and pace of my M3 still feels like it's post 1.49. I suspect whatever they adjusted is a bit closer to 1.48, but the tire model and most of the suspension feel is still past 1.49.

IMO we need more people to try the physics out before we jump to conclusions.

I'm not talking FFB. I was strictly referring to the Physics Simulation or let's call it Suspension Dynamics.
And most obviously the ABS Algorithm.
The Suspension especially the front end has highly improved front end grip.
Kerbs have no specific impact as it used to be previously.
Something I can live with to be honest.

But what they did to the ABS is just... Pathetic.
We are back to slam the brakes, car stays stable, no matter if it's on a kerb or not.
It just sticks and no longer locks up.
Braking Pressure Modulation has been highly simplified again.
On the other hand we still have the old tire degradation model, but because of the non impactfull ABS system, the tires or let's say the way how you had to nurse them rubber is no longer in correlation to how you modulate your braking inputs.
It's so much simplified and takes away a huge driver factor.
Lap time wise from my testing so far, it has become quicker again.
It's logical so nothing I didn't expect to happen.
Overall it's a huge let down and takes away a lot of finesse.
Something which was very obvious pre 1.52.
I'm very sure that in the next few hours we'll get many reactions here which will definitely confirm my early observations.

Edit:
And the FFB feels phenomenal by the way, same as before.
So at least it's something which hasn't been touched.
But it's so boring and dull to drive with these physics.

 

[Obelisk]

I was strictly referring to the Physics Simulation or let's call it Suspension Dynamics.

And I am saying that the suspension physics were not reversed all the way back to 1.49. I noticed some cars (particularly my Cappuccino) still bouncing a few times after hitting/coming off kerbs and other uneven terrain. Whatever they did to the suspension was an incremental change to try and address the bug. Even the patch notes mention they only adjusted two things in the suspension.

On the other hand we still have the old tire degradation model, but because of the non impactfull ABS system, the tires or let's say the way how you had to nurse them rubber is no longer in correlation to how you modulate your braking inputs.

Slamming the brakes in my modified HiAce this morning made it turn to the side, and I run ABS weak. Still skeptical.

 

[hawkeyez]

i say thank that hawkeye poster, or the other countless complainers... thing is, it was an ugly bug with the jumpy evos, but rolling is back is so so wack

I have a direct line to Polyphony Digital, I told them roll it back or I’m gone! They said sorry my master, your wish is our command.

Haven’t driven it yet, most of my complaints have been about cars that used to drive fine and were predictable but were now extremely tricky to drive. Lots of people drive the GR.3 cars and I could see those feeling better to most because even before the updates those things basically drove themselves. The suspension update probably woke those up a little or put a little more character into the cars.

But for more of the historic cars, the suspension was whack. A stock wide body pantera with wide tires and rims… would get fender rub when we didn’t before their suspension update. Lots of older cars you had to start throwing suspension at it to fix whatever they messed up.

IF, they have rolled it back, maybe they found more issues with their physics update and need a lot more time to sort it out. My main issues with that update was the G Pro wheel felt A LOT different, lots of very light weight feel in many cars, and others were extremely hard to turn the wheel. Way too drastic of a difference between cars. Erratic FFB, like mid corner the wheel would just tug away, or just barely hop a flat curve with a feather light steering car and get a monster FFB spike that’d almost rip your hands off. As for suspension, I’ve already mentioned it, lots of cars bottoming out too easily requiring us to throw parts at what were normally nice stock vehicles to drive.

If you want to start a fight, I’m all for it. If they gave us the option to toggle HUD on and off, moved the timer for the karts in cockpit view and let us share tunes with the click of a button, then perhaps they listened to me. If they didn’t, then maybe they somehow listened to the complaints from majority of users about suspension physics update issues. In that case, no sense singling me out Glavston. It’s rude.

 

[Galvston]

I have a direct line to Polyphony Digital, I told them roll it back or I’m gone! They said sorry my master, your wish is our command.

Haven’t driven it yet, most of my complaints have been about cars that used to drive fine and were predictable but were now extremely tricky to drive. Lots of people drive the GR.3 cars and I could see those feeling better to most because even before the updates those things basically drove themselves. The suspension update probably woke those up a little or put a little more character into the cars.

But for more of the historic cars, the suspension was whack. A stock wide body pantera with wide tires and rims… would get fender rub when we didn’t before their suspension update. Lots of older cars you had to start throwing suspension at it to fix whatever they messed up.

IF, they have rolled it back, maybe they found more issues with their physics update and need a lot more time to sort it out. My main issues with that update was the G Pro wheel felt A LOT different, lots of very light weight feel in many cars, and others were extremely hard to turn the wheel. Way too drastic of a difference between cars. Erratic FFB, like mid corner the wheel would just tug away, or just barely hop a flat curve with a feather light steering car and get a monster FFB spike that’d almost rip your hands off. As for suspension, I’ve already mentioned it, lots of cars bottoming out too easily requiring us to throw parts at what were normally nice stock vehicles to drive.

If you want to start a fight, I’m all for it. If they gave us the option to toggle HUD on and off, moved the timer for the karts in cockpit view and let us share tunes with the click of a button, then perhaps they listened to me. If they didn’t, then maybe they somehow listened to the complaints from majority of users about suspension physics update issues. In that case, no sense singling me out Glavston. It’s rude.

Not singling you out, just remember you posting countless times about how awful the new physics was... I even put "... and the other people"on the post. It certainly wasn't only you complaining about it. Reddit and them was full of it

 

[PirovacBoy]

And I am saying that the suspension physics were not reversed all the way back to 1.49. I noticed some cars (particularly my Cappuccino) still bouncing a few times after hitting/coming off kerbs and other uneven terrain. Whatever they did to the suspension was an incremental change to try and address the bug. Even the patch notes mention they only adjusted two things in the suspension.

Slamming the brakes in my modified HiAce this morning made it turn to the side, and I run ABS weak. Still skeptical.

I drive 70% GT3 cars and the changes are more then obvious.
I play every day for hours and manage to get 800km on average.
Right when the servers went offline I was doing Arcade offline driving around the Nordschleife on comfort tires in high torque cars like the Mustang.
Immediately after the Server Maintenance and update was installed, I switched to the same car/track/tire combo and it was very very obvious that the ABS Algorithm has been changed.
Same goes for the Front end.
Way more bite and stability.
Kerbs are no longer that impactfull.
The Front brake disc's moment before they slightly start to lock up has been highly altered to a level where it just starts to lock up at the very last moment if at all.
I also drive a lot with ABS turned off, especially in older Road cars.
Anything above 50% brake pressure will lock up the fronts, especially at low speeds which absolutely doesn't make sense.
At high speeds it's somewhat more realistic as it doesn't lock up beyond 70%.
Pre 1.52 it was absolutely fine and non ABS Brake Modulation was a blast up to 80% independent of the current speed you were going.


I then opened my well known Open Lobby and had some very good drivers in.
All A+ all between 60 to 80K Dr.
High Tier Top split Drivers.
We all agreed on the term that braking has been highly simplified.
Especially in GT3 cars.
I don't know how much experience or driving knowledge you have but I can assure you that it's definitely been simplified.
I'm a GT Enthusiast and pay high attention to the small as well to the very obvious changes.
Muscle Memory and Driving Techniques have become second nature over the years.

But it's ok that you're skeptical.
As long as you enjoy the game the way it is it's ok.
I'm not trying to convince you.
Don't get me wrong.
It's just facts. 🙂

 

[Parenji]

I've just seen the digit racing live and he's saying that there are minimal changes in abs and braking but the game it's defenitely not back to pre 1.49

 

[hawkeyez]

Not singling you out, just remember you posting countless times about how awful the new physics was... I even put "... and the other people"on the post. It certainly wasn't only you complaining about it. Reddit and them was full of it

I remember posting countless times about it as well because my expensive wheel suddenly felt completely different and not in a good way. I’ve still been racing but some cars suddenly became way less enjoyable to drive. The Daytona coupe, damn used to love that car, now it feels like my wheel isn’t on, but if I crank up the torque I get strong spikes. So yeah, when their update drastically changes the feel of your wheel you spent a lot of money on, it’s hard not to get upset and instead just simply welcome the changes.

Physics are a tricky thing too because racing sims can only do so much, they all feel completely different, so my point is, get it as close as you can to real that you think is accurate, and leave it alone because minor tiny changes in physics can take a lot of laps to get used of. Especially when the physics updates affect tunes and setups. It’s like somebody rearranging your computers folders while you were asleep. That’s my main point. I can get used of how a car handles, but quit changing it, pick something, stick with it, make sure it was your best foot forward.

My thoughts on GT7 initially on release, meh it’s still the same old. But I have nothing better to play. They updated, wow this is better! Lots of people seem to hate it. Now I’m one of them, the previous 1.50 update or whatever it was put me in the why’d you go and change stuff?! You can’t please everyone so best foot forward, leave it as is, fix it on the next title.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

I actually drove the Daytona coupe the other night for the first time in a long time, and I didn't experience anything odd. I took it out after reading one of your posts about it. Mine is completely stock, but for some reason I couldn't duplicate what you described. As noted in the "suspension compression issues" I was unable to duplicate a stock E36 getting tossed at the Fuchsrohre, so I dunno...

Not sure if I just haven't driven the right cars to experience it or what. I'm going to run the 911 in a bit from that thread and see what happens.

 

[xDriver69x]

Are there any videos with telemetry showing with commentary and perceived or believed behavioral differences? It takes me usually a dozen cars and a dozen laps each to feel things out and validate and verify. single data points are not a trend, and more often than not, user induced or perceptive error.

 

[hawkeyez]

I actually drove the Daytona coupe the other night for the first time in a long time, and I didn't experience anything odd. I took it out after reading one of your posts about it. Mine is completely stock, but for some reason I couldn't duplicate what you described. As noted in the "suspension compression issues" I was unable to duplicate a stock E36 getting tossed at the Fuchsrohre, so I dunno...

Not sure if I just haven't driven the right cars to experience it or what. I'm going to run the 911 in a bit from that thread and see what happens.

It may be what my wheel was set to. I’ve since dialled it back, I don’t like the super light feel, when it was stronger I would get some spikes, although I might be thinking of the GT40. With the physics update I noticed cars tires hitting fenders more easily, and I was getting drastic differences in FFB between different cars, and what I call spikes off a curb, collision or dip in the road.

Whoever shared their wheel settings helped, but for me, it was at the cost of a lot of my cars feeling too light in the steering… yet I still hop in cars where I think, geez I might have to turn this down more. I’m just living with it or have been. You do get used of it. I’m sure eventually I’d just forget how it previously felt. It was different enough it felt like if I raced on somebody else different brand wheel. Which I have done and it’s always a bit of a struggle for me until I get used of the different wheel and pedals.

Anyway there will be all types of opinions… those who love the physics updates and those who don’t. When they fixed the tire lock up feel way back when, I welcomed it, but I know lots of people were supremely ticked off. So not only do all sims feel different, all our wheels feel differently and our opinions on how it should feel are different. And it becomes a ______match of opinions and experience. Which is why I believe it should be the best it can be, test it, release, fix your mistakes for the next release.

Happens to me in COD. I’ve always just picked a gun (usually whatever I start with or unlock first) and roll with it, usually don’t care about unlocking the other ones. I get used of it, it works great. Then comes an update, what the heck this gun doesn’t seem to be what it used to be. Google it… ah they nerfed it. Back to square one. Updates are nice to be able to fix issues and glitches, but not to change a game. They changed the feel of the wheel, that’s going to be a toss up on whether people will be on board with that or not, every single time.

 

[szejok666]

Definitely something in car behaviour has changed - can't tell what exactly but these are my observations:

• Braking is much more stable (I'm running ABS weak) and linear.
• Cars fell less "alive" than before, and a bit dull in my opinion - this may be due to some suspension changes or/and weight transfer changes.
• Tires physics hasn't changed (in my view at least), grip is the same (based on some testing and lateral G stats in car menu), my lap times are a bit faster (about 0.2 second on Laguna Seca) - because driving is easier and more in on/off mode.

Overall I can't say that I'm satisfied - suspension problems still persist (Try stock C7 Corvette Zr1 on Nordschleife with Sports Hard or Medium tires and you'll see - rear suspension compresses so hard, that car snaps in a split of a second, and in at least 2 places You'll be flying over 200km/h into the wall - one is couple of corners after Flugplatz, next is at the end of the long straight). If this car would behave like this IRL, Jim Mero wouldn't be among us no more
I'd like to add, that my opinion is based only on stock road cars - as I mainly drive these - and on less grippy tires than default - because in GT7 stock tires very often have unrealistic levels of grip.

 

[FrankieStail]

So we’re back to bland turismo?

 

[PirovacBoy]

So we’re back to bland turismo?

Yep enjoy 😅

 

[Greycap]

No, we're back to a situation in which a 1500 kg car with a nearly three metre wheelbase doesn't feel like the rear tyres are being lifted off the road when braking hard or be on the verge of wheelieing at the corner exit with a whopping 400 bhp in second gear. The weight transfer was greatly exaggerated and while it may have been fascinating and enjoyable, realistic it's definitely not.

 

[Iso Octane]

Power-oversteer tire grip modulation seems "fixed" vs. 1.49 where I felt like they took a step wrong (got worse with 1.49). Much easier to maintain and power through powerslides now in a stock road car on CS tires.

More direction adjustment available when on full brake (abs 1). I really didn't like how that was exploited in the time trials; haven't checked it out to see if it's back, but that was a realism breaker IMO.

Not feeling bland with road cars at all, IME so far. Weight of the car, FFB, all feels fine and lively so far.

 

[snc]

Car (gr3 especialy) are more stable so physics is more realistic now as gr3 cars are stable

 

[RS60NR]

High speed oscillation for those GR1 over 300km/hr a bit less bad but still there, like the Jag XJR.

 

[Kriptical]

High speed oscillation for those GR1 over 300km/hr a bit less bad but still there, like the Jag XJR.

Can confirm.
4wd cars seem pretty aggressive.
Rwd it still exists, but manageable.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I drove my fully-tuned engine swapped Hiace last night and it pitches really hard under brakes, making it very unstable. I had to be extra careful when applying the brake because when you jump on it, you will find yourself battling to maintain control. However once you figure it out, it's fine but the aerodynamics are crap.

 

[AlexWilmot]

I drove my fully-tuned engine swapped Hiace last night and it pitches really hard under brakes, making it very unstable. I had to be extra careful when applying the brake because when you jump on it, you will find yourself battling to maintain control. However once you figure it out, it's fine but the aerodynamics are crap.

Have front natural frequency near the 3s with rear much lower and it’ll be better, compression maybe 32-30.
Toe will affect this as well so “low” numbers should help.

Hope this helps

 

[Voodoovaj]

FYI, I am currently SLIGHTLY faster with ABS weak compared to ABS default. It might be part of the adjustment process to the 1.52 update, but I am currently, consistently, about 1/10th faster.

 

[lbpomg95]

As a controller using pleb, I'm personally happier with the physics currently compared to 1.49/1.50. As someone who predominantly drives road cars, stock, mildly tuned, and with all upgrades, there were a lot of situations where the physics felt janky in 1.49, and it feels slightly more predictable and user-friendly now.

At the end of the day Gran Turismo was always the game that tried to bridge the gap between games with basic physics, and hardcore sims, and I think 1.49 really skewered that balance. They seem to have found a bit more balance with 1.52.

 

[hawkeyez]

As a controller using pleb, I'm personally happier with the physics currently compared to 1.49/1.50. As someone who predominantly drives road cars, stock, mildly tuned, and with all upgrades, there were a lot of situations where the physics felt janky in 1.49, and it feels slightly more predictable and user-friendly now.

At the end of the day Gran Turismo was always the game that tried to bridge the gap between games with basic physics, and hardcore sims, and I think 1.49 really skewered that balance. They seem to have found a bit more balance with 1.52.

After 1.49 I had a lot of unwanted feel in my wheel, whether it was too strong or too light or too dynamic. I worked on some trans am tunes and after 1.49 it felt like I wasted all that time tuning the cars. Mentioned it before but suddenly I couldn’t four wheel drift corners anymore. I haven’t touched the tunes because I was hoping they’d fix what they changed. I tried fixing one, bought another tuned it the same then started tweaking suspension settings but I was getting nowhere. Mostly because it took me weeks to tweak things how I wanted and I wasn’t prepared to do that again.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Ok I've got a puzzle and need some explanation on what is happened with my PP measurements. I've included pics, the three are settings of my 300SL and all I do is change tyres and I get the ⚠️ in PP.
1ST is IM tyres and all is good.

2nd is RS (RM & RH same) and is ⚠️

3rd is SS and is good again, nothing else changes in any other settings

Please tell me what I am doing wrong?

 

[wheelhp]

Guy in a different thread did also say abs has changed now. His driving is more consistent with abs weak now.


I'm just happy they're clearly still working on gt7 physics in some capacity. Could be right as rain by 2026

Me personally whats most annoying about most physics changes is knowing a person who does not apply increased body rigidity is going to complain about different things to a person who knows.

 

[05XR8]

This was pretty much my main complaint with Gran Turismo. June 2016 - July 2022

Where are the bumps? That track is too smooth. There is no life in the cars at all. I love GT replays, but it looks boring.

Big difference in track feel. All the bumps in PC and too smooth in GT. PC2 will further distance itself from GT with LiveTrack3.0. I'd also wait to compare sound when PC2 releases.

This is what I love about the game. The bumpiness. GT is way too smooth. Forza has bumps, but PCARS has that ToCA 1 feel dialled o 11.

I use the DS4. I can however, compare track feel from PC2. Gran Turismo is too smooth. Always too smooth. I was on the pace Even in the dark conditions. It’s missing the bumpiness.

I can say the physics of the suspension reacting to the track data PD accumulated is finally revealed in GT7. It’s steadily improved over the life of GT7. Just having a ride around in the WTC700 at Le Mans and it’s awesome. The sensation of all the bumpiness of a circuit translates well in the view of the road.
Tracks were forever glass smooth in Gran Turismo. Now the game is on par with other racing games that replicate the nuances of various track surfaces. For that part of immersion GT7 is a really good game and the best in the franchise in the real driving simulator feeling.

 

[szejok666]

There is something really wrong with suspension physics at the moment. Today I've been fast lapping Nordschleife trying to match official records in three cars, and with all of them there were problems:

• Mercedes AMG GT Black (stock, SS tires) - I've been sent to the wall on every lap on jump after Pflanzgarten (front suspension bottomed out). Also, front end lifts of the ground quite violently on Kesselchen. Still managed 6:49 after meeting the wall, so I don't think I'm that lousy
• C7 Corvette ZR1 (stock, SM tires) - car snaps in milisecond on Kottenborn and Tiergarten every lap. It happens so fast I can't tell for sure what is happening, but I assume based on replay that rear end bottoms out.
• Camaro ZL1 1LE (stock, SH tires) - constant problems all throughout the track, car is all over the place, can't tell exactly what is the problem (too soft rebound maybe?). It's not so immediate, that slides can't be recovered, but I can't see matching my 7:17 lap time, that I did in January 2024.

That's the three cars I took for a spin today, don't really want to try another tomorrow until they fix whatever is wrong at the moment.
Try for yourself if You want.

Edit:
- What is interesting, is that this physics problems are strangely familiar to these in Forza Motorsport 7 (which to this day haven't been sorted out)

 

[VXR]

The E36 is still an absolute horror to drive. I've left suspension alone and just put the wheel offset to wide, which still leaves plenty of clearance, but on both Nordschleife and Deep Forest, any turn where the curve compresses is sending it left or right with zero warning and next to no control, but to brake and fight the steering.

Edit: OK, it must be the spacers, because I've just tried a bone stock, straight from UCD example and the issue on Deep Forest didn't show up, and the limitations of CS tyres was the only real annoyance.

 

[hawkeyez]

Ok I've got a puzzle and need some explanation on what is happened with my PP measurements. I've included pics, the three are settings of my 300SL and all I do is change tyres and I get the ⚠️ in PP.
1ST is IM tyres and all is good.View attachment 13948082nd is RS (RM & RH same) and is ⚠️View attachment 13948093rd is SS and is good again, nothing else changes in any other settingsView attachment 1394810
Please tell me what I am doing wrong?

You updated to 1.49 when it dropped, that’s what you’re doing wrong.