Gran Turismo 7 Revealed for PlayStation 5

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Bro I agree with you big time but doesn’t every game do this? I can play pc2 and ac and see somethings on the track where it makes you go :scared: at the end of the days these are games and will always have to cut some corners. Again though what game actually shows you the track highlights like GTS?

The modern GTs (GT5/6/Sport) have the biggest discrepancy in graphical quality and assets between tracks, and Polyphony has a larger budget from Sony. pCars2 has so many tracks in that game compared to GT, plus the dynamic time of day and weather for all tracks so I wouldn't expect that to be as graphically consistent when you can have so many varying lighting changes that could make things look dull. AC is basically from a small indie-ish developer on a limited budget.

Forza Horizon 3/4, even Project Gotham Racing 4 on Xbox360, were more graphically consistent games with high fidelity art like GT.

PGR4 New York City environment is still incredible, and very large. This game also rendered Tokyo, London, Vegas, Shanghai, St Petersburg Russia, Quebec City, Macau in amazing detail thanks to outsourcing most of these building and city props.

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I actually really enjoy Alsace and the track looks very good to me.. I’m kinda confused on some people saying GT tracks or environment don’t look good... first of all GTS is the only one out of all the racing game to show you the track before racing. It’s one of the best features in arcade mode, you really get to see the track and environment. The water in Alsace look beautiful as the camera pans around the track... you see all the elevations change through out the track and can hear what ever car you are about to drive rip around the track... some times I don’t even drive I just let the screen pan around the track lol.. no other game does this. You have to drive around the track and look around, while in GTS your seeing things on the track that you would never see if you where just driving. PD put some amazing details in some of these tracks where I question why even go that far lol. I have PS4 pro and an XBOX 1X 65 Samsung 4K HDR with all the sim racing games for both systems... except ACC.

Visually, environment isn't ugly but basic. There is no real identity, it's flat. I don't know if I can make myself understood ? If I want to compare, I find Willow Spring which is a vast desert, more nicer, more "alive".

As for the track, I find Alsace Village too long, too wide with "unrealistic" turns. I like elevations on the other hand. It's a personal opinion, happy to see that this track is appreciated by certain players :)
 
You'd be surprised. I've always loved Gran Turismo's inclusion of seemingly mundane, run of the mill, mass-market cars. Call me crazy, but I genuinely find a Ford Fiesta as interesting as a Ferrari 488, for example. It makes no sense to try comparing them, or to call one better than the other, as they were both designed for completely different purposes.

As for the reason these base cars should be included in racing games, if they weren't designed to be fast around a circuit - it's fun to tune them up and make them fast around a circuit. I've actually set myself a goal of trying to win the SSR11 Enduro race in GT3, using a tuned Toyota AE86, even though that race is fielded by the likes of the GT-One TS020. Because that sounds like fun to me. I'm sad, I know! :D

(And also a potential masochist, since I won't let myself use turbos. It's like I want to suffer. :lol:)

I think that's fair. I'm not saying get rid of all base model cars. Especially on the lower end of the pricing spectrum. However, for categories like supercars, base cars become less relevant (IMO). Is there really any point in having the base Huracan and not the Performante or Evo? Porsche Cayman S, but not the GT4? Mclaren 650S vs 675LT? They aren't relatable or nostalgic in the same way a base Fiesta is or maybe even a Mustang (conceding an earlier example of mine). IMO, the top tier versions of supercars simply offer more appeal.
 
Visually, environment isn't ugly but basic. There is no real identity, it's flat. I don't know if I can make myself understood ? If I want to compare, I find Willow Spring which is a vast desert, more nicer, more "alive".

As for the track, I find Alsace Village too long, too wide with "unrealistic" turns. I like elevations on the other hand. It's a personal opinion, happy to see that this track is appreciated by certain players :)
I kinda feel what your saying but I still get a great vibe from that track... but the way I use it is more for street performance... I normally stay in one lane and run it like that as if I was driving on a public road.. as for circuit racing I really don’t like it either as you said it’s kinda wide... still visually though I think it looks good I like the forest, village, lake atmosphere. Makes me feel like I’m driving a nice back country road with the bumps, and elevation changes.
 
I think that's fair. I'm not saying get rid of all base model cars. Especially on the lower end of the pricing spectrum. However, for categories like supercars, base cars become less relevant (IMO). Is there really any point in having the base Huracan and not the Performante or Evo? Porsche Cayman S, but not the GT4? Mclaren 650S vs 675LT? They aren't relatable or nostalgic in the same way a base Fiesta is or maybe even a Mustang (conceding an earlier example of mine). IMO, the top tier versions of supercars simply offer more appeal.
Me personally That’s why I love GT, I love for the fact I can drive a base model car and then also get the performance model of the same car.. No difference on how I can drive a regular 458 GT4 458 and a GT3 458. To feel the car evolve is just a great sensation. I remember in GT6 you could drive the base NSX the type S version and the Type R, I don’t know if you guys ever watch best motoring but to mimic that NSX test they did In GT6 was just amazing for me.
 
I think that's fair. I'm not saying get rid of all base model cars. Especially on the lower end of the pricing spectrum. However, for categories like supercars, base cars become less relevant (IMO). Is there really any point in having the base Huracan and not the Performante or Evo? Porsche Cayman S, but not the GT4? Mclaren 650S vs 675LT?

It depends. If there's a one-make series the cars are eligible in, then it makes sense to have multiple variants, of even the most exotic cars. Especially if there's noticeable performace differences between them. It gives the player the choice of either cruising to victory in the fastest car, or using the slower model, and giving themselves more of a challenge.
 
Just the same problem Polyphony had with GT5/6 where they had to reuse old PS2 assets and models because they don't want to get help from outsourcing companies. Their track modeling team is great and very talented, it's just the amount of work that goes into the graphical fidelity in modern games take so much time and effort that it's impossible to keep all of the tracks more graphically consistent with each other without having outsourcing help (which is cheaper than hiring new full time employees + these outsource companies have literally 1000s of artists dedicated to just creating art assets). Pretty sure 99% of modern AAA game developers use outsource companies for development help in addition to the Forza and Project Cars devs.

So when Polyphony try to do all of the art themselves, they only have a very limited number of people and time to focus on high fidelity art graphics for only a select amount of tracks or objects, and in order to meet their release deadline (even with a 4-5 years dev time) they have to reuse old art assets or slightly touch them up to make the game have more content. Or they release a game without much content despite a 4 year dev time (GTSport) and still be graphically inconsistent because they had to rush new tracks like Alsace, which looks like they just quickly made in an internal procedural track creator. That's why Spa in GTSport is using the same building models as the ones in GT5/6 even with that long gap between the games. They could have outsourced those buildings and got better looking ones but Kaz doesn't like to outsource for some reason.

Those buildings don't even really bother me graphically, and LeMans in GTSport is easily the best looking version out of the other racing games even if some buildings might not have as much detail.



But it's the ugly tracks like Alsace where you see the limit of Polyphony trying to do everything in-house and it makes me question why they don't just outsourced their fictional track props and art to a cheap third party company. I can see why for real track circuits where Polyphony wants to make everything themselves to be as accurate as possible, but that's not required for the fictional tracks. And with 3d photogrammetry scanning objects and props, there's not even much artistic talent involved in that, it would look the same as if Polyphony made the objects using photogrammetry.

You can read about how outsource companies have become highly important in modern game productions here: https://theoutline.com/post/3087/ou...e-in-china-horizon-zero-dawn?zd=1&zi=i6sx52v2

Hong Kong in GT4 still looks incredible, but it's mostly just 2D photos used as textures and was much easier to make. I can't see Polyphony having 6-7 city tracks again with modern graphics unless Kaz allows for outsourcing help. At least he started budging for the car model outsourcing after the huge content backlash GTSport had.

Someone has to send this post to Kaz so he can read this
 
Someone has to send this post to Kaz so he can read this
I don't think that's going to happen no matter who tries.
Maybe PD won't need to outsource? Remember these articles? There was one on procedural landscape generation and a similar one for cars.

https://www.gtplanet.net/polyphony-digital-procedural-landscape-generation-cedec/

https://www.gtplanet.net/polyphony-digital-is-experimenting-with-procedurally-generated-cars/

Who knows how far they've come with this (not me that's for sure :dopey:).
Yeah, I brought the landscape one up recently in another thread. PD's underwhelming track design has been a big talking point since that infamous screenshot from the trailer has been going around. From what I gathered from the article, it's a powerful resource that would definitely help with the emptiness and low quality assets a lot of tracks have.

If GTPlanet gets an interview with Kaz in the future, this would be a great thing to ask about.
 
I kinda feel what your saying but I still get a great vibe from that track... but the way I use it is more for street performance... I normally stay in one lane and run it like that as if I was driving on a public road.. as for circuit racing I really don’t like it either as you said it’s kinda wide... still visually though I think it looks good I like the forest, village, lake atmosphere. Makes me feel like I’m driving a nice back country road with the bumps, and elevation changes.

You are right, tracks like Alsace Village or even Sardegna, it must be taken as a public road and not as a real circuit :)
 
It depends. If there's a one-make series the cars are eligible in, then it makes sense to have multiple variants, of even the most exotic cars. Especially if there's noticeable performace differences between them. It gives the player the choice of either cruising to victory in the fastest car, or using the slower model, and giving themselves more of a challenge.

Every car takes countless man hours to make. End of the day, resources are finite, so decisions have to be made.
 
The modern GTs (GT5/6/Sport) have the biggest discrepancy in graphical quality and assets between tracks, and Polyphony has a larger budget from Sony. pCars2 has so many tracks in that game compared to GT, plus the dynamic time of day and weather for all tracks so I wouldn't expect that to be as graphically consistent when you can have so many varying lighting changes that could make things look dull. AC is basically from a small indie-ish developer on a limited budget.

Forza Horizon 3/4, even Project Gotham Racing 4 on Xbox360, were more graphically consistent games with high fidelity art like GT.

PGR4 New York City environment is still incredible, and very large. This game also rendered Tokyo, London, Vegas, Shanghai, St Petersburg Russia, Quebec City, Macau in amazing detail thanks to outsourcing most of these building and city props.

pgr4zk9d.gif
When a game on the Xbox 360 can look this good, PD have absolutely no excuses for poor environments.
 
Gifs, it's magic!

Make a PS3 game in gif, very small, it will be as beautiful as a PS6 game ! :lol:

Funny bro, if that were true then GT7 in small gameplay gifs should look even more mindboggling like PS8 graphics, instead it barely looks better than GTSport gameplay gifs. 👎

If you really think Polyphony trying to do all of their environment art assets by themselves with only 180 employees won't be left behind by other devs taking advantage of oursourcing help with hundreds and hundreds of artists assisting, then good luck. The city environments and buildings in PGR4 on an Xbox360 game were already more detailed and impressive than Tokyo Expressway in GTSport. Also take into account Sony gives Polyphony all of the time in the word to make their games, PD was able to spend 4 years on a single racing game and still managed to release tracks looking like Alsace and Dragon Trail in addition to the low track count at launch. The big racing titles from other developers have a limit of a 2 year dev cycle on an even smaller budget.

I imagine you wanted something more than gifs though, so here's direct-feed gameplay shots of PGR4 (reminder it's an Xbox360 game). Imagine how more detail Tokyo Expressway could have been, and how many more city tracks we could have gotten if Polyphony had actually allowed for help from outsource developers. At least Hong Kong, Amalfi, and George V Paris could have been remade by now too considering GTSport is now a whopping 7 years old since GT6 released... But if you want to defend Polyphony's outdated development practices, go ahead. Just don't get so defensive when their flaws are compared to the competition.

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I wonder if it also has to do with it being a 60 fps sim. Its weird how open world racing games have pretty much always looked better than their track side sim siblings.

I do know speed is a limit, though both genres have 200mph+ cars. My only thought is the sim side using so much resources than they have to scale back, but surely that;s CPU dependent rather than GPU.

Maybe its a game design thing where they don't think players will care about track side detail as most of the times its hard to position the camera to see it or the player is going to fast with motion blur.

Either way, photo realistic environments are the final key in GT looking like real life consistently in gameplay.
 
When it comes to environments real world tracks look superior than original one. Tracks like Dragon Trail and Kyoto Driving Park have subpar environments. Why can't they just reused assets?


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Yeah, the real world circuits (except Red Bull Ring) look a lot better than their fictional tracks and I also wish they had just reused those vegetation assets they had already created from their real world circuits. But then I remembered Polyphony are so nitpicky about little details that they wanted to recreate the proper vegetation and environment props that you would find in the hypothetical real-world location they set for the fictional tracks, but there's a limit to their manpower and time spent polishing stuff (plus the issue of devs getting burnt out from staring at the computer for so long and overworked from long hours), so the buildings and trees in Dragon Trail just ended up looking like they came from the PS3 era. A far cry from how great the real environment looks. Outsourcing Dragon Trail's track assets would have helped immensely, and place less of a burden on PD devs working hard trying to make as much content as possible by themselves for the release. I remember in one of the old GT interviews where a PD employee just slept in the office under his desk...

Makarska-Dinaric-Alps-coast-Dalmatian-Split-Croatia.jpg
 
I know that PD isn’t above outsourcing either, they even got another company to model the Honda S660 a while back. I think it’s an issue of keeping the development strictly Japanese-run, or ensuring quality control, but that’s just my working theory. Why else would they commit themselves to so much of the work in modeling?
 
Yeah, the real world circuits (except Red Bull Ring) look a lot better than their fictional tracks and I also wish they had just reused those vegetation assets they had already created from their real world circuits. But then I remembered Polyphony are so nitpicky about little details that they wanted to recreate the proper vegetation and environment props that you would find in the hypothetical real-world location they set for the fictional tracks, but there's a limit to their manpower and time spent polishing stuff (plus the issue of devs getting burnt out from staring at the computer for so long and overworked from long hours), so the buildings and trees in Dragon Trail just ended up looking like they came from the PS3 era. A far cry from how great the real environment looks. Outsourcing Dragon Trail's track assets would have helped immensely, and place less of a burden on PD devs working hard trying to make as much content as possible by themselves for the release. I remember in one of the old GT interviews where a PD employee just slept in the office under his desk...

Makarska-Dinaric-Alps-coast-Dalmatian-Split-Croatia.jpg

If I were them I'd reused some assets. I highly doubt the average GT fan can tell the difference. It's no surprise why the tracks are so inconsistent in GTSport. They should've outsourced car models and assets a long time ago. I still don't understand why they keep insisting doing all on their own.
 
Certain tracks like Dragon Trails and Alsace Village deserve to be reworked. But I'm glad they don't use same assets as worlds tracks where PoDi is forced to be as realistic as possible. You have to dare fantasy.

For example, Lago Maggiore or Trial Mountain are very good. PoDi should take example on these tracks.

Ah, And I liked and I always like Tokyo tracks. They are absolutely beautiful !
 
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A few signs lit up at night don't really change much. Compared to other city tracks in games they're factually very dull and lifeless. Does anyone live in this version of Tokyo? I've seen no evidence, other than the chequered flag guy.

I mean your opinion is your opinion but personally I can't think of many words that worse describe it than "beautiful".
 
this was the thing that differentiated namely the first and second gran turismo games from other racing games.
Nowadays, they try to include as many hypercars as they can. just like everyone else. sadly.
If that's what they've been trying to do, they have failed miserably. Just as well I don't believe that was their intention.
 
The Tokyo tracks in GTS? They're just grey, lifeless zombie tracks with no signs of life.

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How you start with a blank piece of paper and come up with that for a fantasy track I'll never know.


Exactly my thinking. And more if you consider they could just remade Tokyo R246. Track within a city, not above, where the life is easier to appera by ''itself''
 
Does anyone live in this version of Tokyo? I've seen no evidence, other than the chequered flag guy.
To be fair, motorways are not renowned for signs of human life other than cars. All variants of Tokyo Expressway do have those trains and monorails zipping about, but there aren't any of the usual trackside buildings like grandstands that would suggest there's a race going on.

Good choices for illicit racing, not so much for organised events.
 
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