Gran Turismo Sport Director on Career Mode changes

[Sloppy Shades]

I hate this 'the pubic gets what the public wants' garbage argument. My other (bigger) hobby is flight simulation. It could not get more technical than knowing what every switch and knob does in a 777 cockpit, not to mention having to learn the dynamics of flight as well. Every procedure in the real world mirrored in your virtual cockpit for the die hard fans. BUT...you can still play simple. You can get the onboard computer to lad up the plane ready to go and ask the controller how to get where you want then just push the throttles forward if thats what you want. 1 plane I use (with 4 engines ) a lot now has an engineer station where you can manipulate the fuel/mixture/throttles/passenger climate and pressurization control/cowl flaps (engine cooling) etc etc for all of the 4 engines individually at the same time you are flying and navigating the plane. Pretty cool for a tech head. OR you can press 3 buttons and have the VIRTUAL ENGINEER do all that for you. Very kind of the developers to add that feature.
My point here is why on earth GT doesnt go to satisfy BOTH camps and be a world beater? They could provide a race engineer guy and you just go through a wizard, tell him your budget and he will tune up your car. You would then test it and either go ahead commit the cash or ask for a refund and try something else. OR you could click ADVANCED and just buy the dang turbo, air filter and muffler YOURSELF.

Why does the whole world have to be dumbing down? 'Leveling' up your car is unforgivable , just disgraceful (old dude here)
The words SIMULATOR and LEVEL UP can not co-exist in the same game IMO.

 

[krishy_123]

ummm growing up, GT taught me a lot about cars and it actually sparked a passion within me for cars and being part of the car modding culture. Now that I have a son, sure I will teach him everything I know - but having a game where he could trial what each part does to a car at no real world cost would have been a great way to learn too.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

My point here is why on earth GT doesnt go to satisfy BOTH camps and be a world beater? They could provide a race engineer guy and you just go through a wizard, tell him your budget and he will tune up your car. You would then test it and either go ahead commit the cash or ask for a refund and try something else. OR you could click ADVANCED and just buy the dang turbo, air filter and muffler YOURSELF.

Why does the whole world have to be dumbing down? 'Leveling' up your car is unforgivable , just disgraceful (old dude here)
The words SIMULATOR and LEVEL UP can not co-exist in the same game IMO.

I think Gran Turismo is changing from having been more of a car collecting and modding w/racing secondary to what you see here as it is now more focused on class based track racing.
In reality many of the mods that were made to the cars in the older versions of GT were not realistic although they may have been fun to do.

The cars in this game are class based race cars and as such should be equipped at the time of purchase with the best allowed in the vehicles class under the rules. A gr 4 car for instance should already have the best brakes and exhaust, suspension and shocks allowed by class and each model of car should fall into what the real world counterpart puts out for HP and weight.

I think the only purpose of the upgrades will be to be able to possibly use a model of car up or down one racing class and that would explain the change to allowed HP and weight ratings. Of course that is just my guess on the upgrades.

If GTS is going the route of more realistic cars and rules for the class of cars racing then getting rid of the individual mods as they existed is not a bad start. How many 900 hp supercharged 1970 Challengers with Acid dipped bodies and 5 speed transmissions with straight cut gears have you ever seen race in a legal road racing class? Actually how many like that have you seen on a road race track in the real world?

I think GT wants to be a more serious racing game with the common casual gamer as its target audience. Some people will like and embrace the changes while others still want the same type of game from days past. It does seem to be pretty obvious thus far that changes are taking place and this isn't your Daddy's Gran Turismo game.

 

[05XR8]

So, all those online rooms in GT6, were for naught. Cars were tuned, modified, personalised for show and go, online leagues, etc. None of that data showed how much people tuned their cars?

 

[Sloppy Shades]

But...I want to do THIS!

 

[VFOURMAX1]

So, all those online rooms in GT6, were for naught. Cars were tuned, modified, personalised for show and go, online leagues, etc. None of that data showed how much people tuned their cars?

Plenty of people modded and tuned their cars, nobody is denying that but many of the mods may not be class legal for a sanctioned racing class.

If you buy a GR4 car that car should be equipped with the best legal equipment for the class at the time of purchase, same goes for a gr3 or a n300 class of car.

Check out what the differences are for cars in such as an IMSA race class. There are very specific rules concerning what is allowed and what is not, same goes for HP and weights allowed. Once the car is built to meet exacting class specs about the only changes allowed are gear ratio's, shock and spring rates and suspension settings and ride heights and all parts used for adjustments have to be approved by the sanctioning body for class use.

All of the relative adjustments for suspension tuning that would be legal in class racing are listed under the cars when you enter the racetrack in GTS. I am sure there will be lobbies and races that allow full tuning and lobbies that require using the cars base set up.

Goes back to what I said earlier GT appears to be changing from a car collecting and car modding game to a class based racing game.

 

[G2587]

When you look at it that way, the reason for career mode being axed makes sense. The rise of social media has the younger generation more keen on spending money on technology with smart features or experiences to share on social networking sites just to portray a false representation of how interesting their lives are for likes and ultimately, acceptance from others. The desire for instant gratification makes the prospect of playing hundreds or races to acquire the most desirable vehicles look like more of a chore than a challenge for "new users". I'd say it is a blend of cars not being interesting enough to warrant hours of gameplay and the diminishing appeal of progression in which you start from the bottom.

With that said, I'm still disappointed at the direction the series has taken, but there are many other games on the market which feature offline progression and suit my tastes better so I'm not gonna dwell on it.

This guy is going to be the next president...very insightful.

But...I want to do THIS!

Exactly!!

 

[G2587]

A game about Esports that focuses on teaching you how to become a professional racing driver, so that you may one day become the real deal.

.....Doesn't teach you how to tune a car, the irony.
While it is simplified, if you want to treat your players as pros that compete for FIA licenced championship, don't treat them like children and take away real life aspects of upgrading a car, it's also part of Motorsport, the driver usually specifies what is wrong with the car and what to upgrade etc.

That being said, I love the game, I can't help but see the potential being lost in making it a better game though.

I agree completely!

FYI...you are a YouTube god! Thanks so much for uploading the lounge music over the years! I've been listening to your channel since 2012! I looked everywhere for Horizons In May until I found your channel. ✌️.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

A game about Esports that focuses on teaching you how to become a professional racing driver, so that you may one day become the real deal.

.....Doesn't teach you how to tune a car, the irony.
While it is simplified, if you want to treat your players as pros that compete for FIA licenced championship, don't treat them like children and take away real life aspects of upgrading a car, it's also part of Motorsport, the driver usually specifies what is wrong with the car and what to upgrade etc.

That being said, I love the game, I can't help but see the potential being lost in making it a better game though.

The driver tells the crew chief what the car is doing or what it feels like loose going in, no drive coming out, Have to back out of the throttle to much through the corner whatever.
At that point the crew chief/ engineers decide what adjustments to make. If during practice sessions of course the whole tool and parts box is open, if it is during a race much fewer choices to rectify a problem.

So as long as the driver can accurately relay to the crew chief what he feels the car is doing he really does not need to know the difference in a tie rod end or a ball joint.
You would probably be surprised at how many professional drivers although good at understanding what the car is doing and relaying that information actually knows very little about car set up on the technical side. Granted they fully understand what is going on but telling you what spring rate to change and go to on the right rear and what air pressure adjustments to make is not what they concentrate on.

Also many classes of cars today the on board sensors tell the crew chief and engineers everything that is going on in that car from throttle position to applied brake pressures and tire temps, g forces and that lap top tells them more of what the car needs where in today's world from a technical standpoint than any driver anywhere. .

Many problems today can be adjusted for with the traction control and engine mapping, some can even allow gps based adjustments.

So driving and wrenching may be hand in hand for a race team out of your backyard garage but a professional race team being able to drive is what you were hired to do and maybe help the crew chief know what you feel with the car, they pay someone else to turn the wrenches and someone else to program the computer and yet even someone else to put gas in the car!

 

[AMGholics]

Sounds like BS excuse from a has been named Kaz.

Before they were champs at making excuses for failing to deliver on their promises.

Now they are making excuses for failing to deliver generally expected parts of most racing game's like parts and tuning.

PAthetic, people should be fired.

 

[05XR8]

Plenty of people modded and tuned their cars, nobody is denying that but many of the mods may not be class legal for a sanctioned racing class.

If you buy a GR4 car that car should be equipped with the best legal equipment for the class at the time of purchase, same goes for a gr3 or a n300 class of car.

Check out what the differences are for cars in such as an IMSA race class. There are very specific rules concerning what is allowed and what is not, same goes for HP and weights allowed. Once the car is built to meet exacting class specs about the only changes allowed are gear ratio's, shock and spring rates and suspension settings and ride heights and all parts used for adjustments have to be approved by the sanctioning body for class use.

All of the relative adjustments for suspension tuning that would be legal in class racing are listed under the cars when you enter the racetrack in GTS. I am sure there will be lobbies and races that allow full tuning and lobbies that require using the cars base set up.

Goes back to what I said earlier GT appears to be changing from a car collecting and car modding game to a class based racing game.

What I'm getting at, is the knowledge gained from tuning cars in past GTs. I'm guessing that wasn't a factor, in gathering user data.

It's not like Cole Trickle, who could drive, but didn't understand the language of engineering. So to speak.

 

[Silver Arrows]

This shows how disconnected Kaz is from the fanbase. If this is the mentality they have making this game just stop making GT and go back to Omega boost or something.

Considering that Kaz has built his entire franchise and legacy from basically giving the middle finger to market trends within the racing genre, and being sheltered by Sony and turned into their most important first party developer alongside Naughty Dog and Guerrilla, why stop now?

Of course, when Sony is looking to close the doors of PD and Kaz is wondering why this is happening, maybe then he might see some of the asinine decisions he has made over the years and see why. Because Japanese developers are notoriously bull-headed when it comes to making any sort of common sense move.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

What I'm getting at, is the knowledge gained from tuning cars in past GTs. I'm guessing that wasn't a factor, in gathering user data.

It's not like Cole Trickle, who could drive, but didn't understand the language of engineering. So to speak.

Although you are not buying and replacing car parts the tuning part is still there. You can still learn how softer/harder springs or a change in castor/ camber or toe in affect turn in or tracking. You can still adjust brake bias front to rear and change ride heights.

You can still adjust gear ratio's and on many cars adjust the diff/ limited slip and on the more race car oriented models you can adjust the individual transmission gear ratio's to match a track layout and the vehicles power delivery.

So there is a lot of tuning still included and tuning that would be considered legal to do within a class racing structure.

So how are you not still getting the knowledge from tuning with GTS? The full tuning menu is still there, just no parts store! The best parts are already on the car when you buy it it so do not need the store!

 

[05XR8]

Considering that Kaz has built his entire franchise and legacy from basically giving the middle finger to market trends within the racing genre, and being sheltered by Sony and turned into their most important first party developer alongside Naughty Dog and Guerrilla, why stop now?

Of course, when Sony is looking to close the doors of PD and Kaz is wondering why this is happening, maybe then he might see some of the asinine decisions he has made over the years and see why. Because Japanese developers are notoriously bull-headed when it comes to making any sort of common sense move.

Only thing is, Kaz admits he doesn't look at what other games are doing. So, not so much a middle finger, but rather, horse blinders.

 

[BarbarianGoth]

So they dumbed the game down for the casuals. Brilliant.
As if Driveclub wasn't enough for that demographic.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Only thing is, Kaz admits he doesn't look at what other games are doing. So, not so much a middle finger, but rather, horse blinders.

Horse blinders, middle finger, at this point it doesn't really matter. GT has become antiquated, hell, it was antiquated when GT6 came out and the only competition on consoles was FM and GRID. Now you have two very hungry and capable developers in Kunos and SMS, and both are taking even bigger slices out of the pie. The only reason that Polyphony is still surviving is that it is a first party studio, based in Japan, and they basically have history that no other first party developer in the Playstation stable has. If this was Evolution doing the same mistakes and ignorance that Polyphony was doing, they'd be ****canned after Motorstorm Apocalypse. Oh wait, they already did, and over smaller stuff!

So they dumbed the game down for the casuals. Brilliant.
As if Driveclub wasn't enough for that demographic.

Speak of the devil. This sort of elitist attitudes is absolutely disgusting and way too prevalent in the sim community. Stop.

 

[BarbarianGoth]

Speak of the devil. This sort of elitist attitudes is absolutely disgusting and way too prevalent in the sim community. Stop.

Great, so you're advocating the dumbing down of the game and axing features of the game so the "mainstream" doesn't feel so overwhelmed.
I'm not elitist, I play and enjoy many types of games including arcade racing games. But I want my sims to remain sims and not be dumbed down and gutted and stripped to the barebones. If you think that's the devil, then a few screws are loose in your head.

 

[Coiler]

You tried to use something you didn't say at all, to try to say that its valid. That wasn't your point, and even if it was, it's not really countering anything. In the same vein, much like this article is saying, just because people buy car games doesn't automatically mean they know more about cars too, that's why your retort didn't really do anything.

My post count is already high, and regardless of which, it's not a contest so that's an odd thing to point out. Unless you just actually view this forum like that, as a contest?


And what does that do for the point you were trying to make? The one where you insinuated that those who buy FPS's every year don't know about cars, since that was the point of the article, and that is what you replied?.

Like I said, my brother doesn't care for actually playing or owning car games. He doesn't buy them but he watches me play them. He knows a crap ton about cars. Where as me, I buy literally every racing game I can get my hands on that functions as intended, doesn't matter if it's sim or arcade, and the most I can do is a basic oil change. So going off your logic, would that mean I know more about cars, since he doesn't buy car games, and chooses to buy shooters?

My point is that the interest in cars in general and cars related games is decresing since the 2000's while people don't mind buing basicly the same shooters every year without complaining. And now when PD made a bold move most of the people is complaining that the game is not the same as it used to be.

 

[Northstar]

My point is that the interest in cars in general and cars related games is decresing since the 2000's

So why not try making a game trying to them back into cars like the original did instead of just rolling over and going for the LCD?

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Can delete

 

[Coiler]

So why not try making a game trying to them back into cars like the original did instead of just rolling over and going for the LCD?

The orginal did it so good that the sales constantly decresed.

 

[Northstar]

The orginal did it so good that the sales constantly decresed.

You may want to check your numbers.

 

[Coiler]

You may want to check your numbers.

Since GT4 17.8>17.3>5.1mln thats not a decrese?

 

[Northstar]

Since GT4 17.8>17.3>5.1mln thats not a decrese?

Where did you pull those numbers from? Because they aren't even close to the numbers usually posted.

^Not my picture.

 

[MatskiMonk]

What has simplified tuning got to do with Career mode?

******** article, misleading thread title.

 

[Coiler]

Where did you pull those numbers from? Because they aren't even close to the numbers usually posted.

View attachment 681819

^Not my picture.

Well the numbers are not decresing then?

 

[Northstar]

Well the numbers are not decresing then?

GT5 increased in sales compared to GT4. GT6 did have a decrease, but there are so many variables with that one it's hard to blame any one thing.

I'm not even going to bother continuing this if you can't even be bothered to do basic math.

 

[ImaRobot]

My point is that the interest in cars in general and cars related games is decresing since the 2000's while people don't mind buing basicly the same shooters every year without complaining. And now when PD made a bold move most of the people is complaining that the game is not the same as it used to be.

Then you should have said that rather than alluding to the fact that people who buy these shooters don't know about cars.

 

[Coiler]

GT5 increased in sales compared to GT4. GT6 did have a decrease, but there are so many variables with that one it's hard to blame any one thing.

I'm not even going to bother continuing this if you can't even be bothered to do basic math.

Between 4 and 5 200k difference and then half of the number sold only two years later and with the maximal possible instal base at that time can have as many variables as you like. Its not even just about Gran Turismo- PC2 sold as for now half of its prewious instalment numbers from the same time.

@ImaRobot where did I write that FPS players don't know nothing about cars?

 

[Johnnypenso]

The driver tells the crew chief what the car is doing or what it feels like loose going in, no drive coming out, Have to back out of the throttle to much through the corner whatever.
At that point the crew chief/ engineers decide what adjustments to make. If during practice sessions of course the whole tool and parts box is open, if it is during a race much fewer choices to rectify a problem.

So as long as the driver can accurately relay to the crew chief what he feels the car is doing he really does not need to know the difference in a tie rod end or a ball joint.
You would probably be surprised at how many professional drivers although good at understanding what the car is doing and relaying that information actually knows very little about car set up on the technical side. Granted they fully understand what is going on but telling you what spring rate to change and go to on the right rear and what air pressure adjustments to make is not what they concentrate on.

Also many classes of cars today the on board sensors tell the crew chief and engineers everything that is going on in that car from throttle position to applied brake pressures and tire temps, g forces and that lap top tells them more of what the car needs where in today's world from a technical standpoint than any driver anywhere. .

Many problems today can be adjusted for with the traction control and engine mapping, some can even allow gps based adjustments.

So driving and wrenching may be hand in hand for a race team out of your backyard garage but a professional race team being able to drive is what you were hired to do and maybe help the crew chief know what you feel with the car, they pay someone else to turn the wrenches and someone else to program the computer and yet even someone else to put gas in the car!

This may all be true but it's irrelevant to the point being made. GTS has no virtual mechanic simulated and leaves all the tuning to the driver. What they removed was the ability to simulate something that tens of millions of people around the world enjoy and that is car modification and upgrading.

Between 4 and 5 200k difference and then half of the number sold only two years later and with the maximal possible instal base at that time can have as many variables as you like. Its not even just about Gran Turismo- PC2 sold as for now half of its prewious instalment numbers from the same time.

@ImaRobot where did I write that FPS players don't know nothing about cars?

GT6 was released at the same time as the PS4 launched. That's not just a regular variable. It's a major influence on sales. One need only look at other games that were produced on both consoles at that time to see that the PS4 immediately captured a huge portion of the game buying marketplace.