Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[7HO]

No, I am saying that the streams don't use the full physics engine so you can't judge the physics by them. Unless your concern for the game is how the streams look...

I and others have already answered this, the results of high speed offs, the catch up boost of a car trailing by over 10 seconds, the nature and grouping of different cars for an entire lap of Nordschleife, the vision of when we saw not network play but actual over the shoulder footage of people playing are just a few of the ways we can judge the physics from what we have seen and this evidence combined with the reports we are getting from those who have tried the game are pointing out to us that at this stage we are not hearing reports from reliable sources.

Like making durabilty the same as the T300...

Which I said myself.

 

[nasanu]

I and others have already answered this, the results of high speed offs, the catch up boost of a car trailing by over 10 seconds, the nature and grouping of different cars for an entire lap of Nordschleife, the vision of when we saw not network play but actual over the shoulder footage of people playing are just a few of the ways we can judge the physics from what we have seen and this evidence combined with the reports we are getting from those who have tried the game are pointing out to us that at this stage we are not hearing reports from reliable sources.

You cant pull this crap when this thread is still available for all to read. Everyone is commenting on the race from the youtube stream which does not use the main physics engine or cams where you can't see the assists. Point me to one single piece of dodgy physics that A, shows the assists screen with them off and B, is actually using the physics model.

Bet you can't.

And BTW I am one of those who have played the game, don't use me as your defence as from what I have seen I disagree with every thought in your head. I saw drivers go onto the grass and spin naturally. I saw AI pushed onto the grass and spin 180. I saw very dodgy physics with assists on. I saw nothing of the rubbish you are spouting.

 

[Animera]

Surely you realise that the cars being watched are running on the game's physics engine at the source?
Seeing how the cars behave on a video is indicative of the underlying physics engine.

 

[Cocomoto]

I was playing GT6 yesterday with Senna's Lotus and a little touch on the grass while braking and the car eaaaasily loose control(or give you some bad time to put it all together at least).

I hope to see that in GTS too(not worried about it, i have a feeling that this will continue in the new game).

 

[7HO]

You cant pull this crap when this thread is still available for all to read. Everyone is commenting on the race from the youtube stream which does not use the main physics engine or cams where you can't see the assists. Point me to one single piece of dodgy physics that A, shows the assists screen with them off and B, is actually using the physics model.

Bet you can't.

And BTW I am one of those who have played the game, don't use me as your defence as from what I have seen I disagree with every thought in your head. I saw drivers go onto the grass and spin naturally. I saw AI pushed onto the grass and spin 180. I saw very dodgy physics with assists on. I saw nothing of the rubbish you are spouting.

Did you read my post? I know you are one of the people who tried it and I don't trust you based on your responses here.
Plenty here have already posted what you have asked for, if you selectively disregard what people are saying that is not my problem.

BTW the assists screen is irrelevant, if you use the "best" drivers in the world to showcase a product and you are not showcasing the best your product has to offer it is your own fault. Everyone here has the right to judge PD based on what they have shown us as if it is the best they have to show. Saying they have better but we haven't seen it is a weak argument and we can't take that on faith. If they have better they should have shown it.

Your physics questions have been answered, some of them are mentioned in my post, for specific examples just read through this thread.

Or do you deny that in the stream the car that was over 10 seconds behind was able to catch all the others in one lap?

 

[nasanu]

Surely you realise that the cars being watched are running on the game's physics engine at the source?
Seeing how the cars behave on a video is indicative of the underlying physics engine.

No it's not. The movement of the cars you are seeing is not the same as the way the cars moved for the drivers. The cars movement you are seeing in a stream is a guess, the PS4 running it applies a simplistic physics engine to update the position of the car when new data arrives, but it's just extrapolating what happened between data points.

Did you read my post? I know you are one of the people who tried it and I don't trust you based on your responses here.
Plenty here have already posted what you have asked for, if you selectively disregard what people are saying that is not my problem.

BTW the assists screen is irrelevant, if you use the "best" drivers in the world to showcase a product and you are not showcasing the best your product has to offer it is your own fault. Everyone here has the right to judge PD based on what they have shown us as if it is the best they have to show. Saying they have better but we haven't seen it is a weak argument and we can't take that on faith. If they have better they should have shown it.

Your physics questions have been answered, some of them are mentioned in my post, for specific examples just read through this thread.

Or do you deny that in the stream the car that was over 10 seconds behind was able to catch all the others in one lap?

What does the skill of the drivers have to do with anything? Why are you mixing marketing (and paranoia) in with discussion of physics?

And I have read through this thread, that is why I challenged you to provide examples because I know they have not yet been provided.

Assists dont matter because of marketing... That's a new one.

 

[Imari]

No it isn't. Do you doubt it will be better than existing Thrustmaster wheels like the T300?

I'm not making any specific claim at all, I'm suggesting that you making sweeping assumptions based on marketing material and your own hopes isn't particularly useful.

Although I'm not surprised, you've done the exact same thing with GTS when people have attempted to have productive conversations about that.

 

[syntex123]

Just seeing the replay, holy (BEEP)!!. What a race!! And with just 4 cars!!. Imagine @AJ narrating this part!!

No, @Tom should've had the pleasure

 

[mister dog]

No it's not. The movement of the cars you are seeing is not the same as the way the cars moved for the drivers. The cars movement you are seeing in a stream is a guess, the PS4 running it applies a simplistic physics engine to update the position of the car when new data arrives, but it's just extrapolating what happened between data points.

But it does show the actual trajectory then even if the points at which it intervals would be displayed wrongly?
The way that Bugatti carries too much speed into the corner and understeers straight on he should have hit the wall. But instead we see a quick mid corner twitch of the steering wheel and he gets it back on line without any trouble.

 

[Mike_grpA]

But it does show the actual trajectory then even if the points at which it intervals would be displayed wrongly?
The way that Bugatti carries too much speed into the corner and understeers straight on he should have hit the wall. But instead we see a quick mid corner twitch of the steering wheel and he gets it back on line without any trouble.

That reminds me of GT6 with racing soft tyres. Also looks like how Driveclub plays when hardcore mode is switched off, with the really overpowered tyre grip.

 

[LeoStrop]

But it does show the actual trajectory then even if the points at which it intervals would be displayed wrongly?
The way that Bugatti carries too much speed into the corner and understeers straight on he should have hit the wall. But instead we see a quick mid corner twitch of the steering wheel and he gets it back on line without any trouble.

Do you know from which video that part was taken? I'm just curious to see which tyre he was using and if there was any type of assist.

On this video, you can see that he hits the wall several times due to understeer, at much lower speeds.

 

[mister dog]

Do you know from which video that part was taken? I'm just curious to see which tyre he was using and if there was any type of assist.

On this video, you can see that he hits the wall several times due to understeer, at much lower speeds.

No realistic tyre would save you from that predicament.

 

[LeoStrop]

No realistic tyre would save you from that predicament.

No, but ASM and other driver assistance will.

 

[nowcontrol]

You do realize that the Maroon road surface you see in that turn which can also be seen on many road junctions/crossings throughout the UK and Australia and possibly many other places purposely has a higher grip threshold than standard grey/black tarmac in order to lower emergency braking distances, the only reason I can imagine that this surface is not at every turn and junction all around the world is down to expense.

I can only assume that this extra level of grip in these places has been properly simulated in the game.

 

[mister dog]

No, but ASM and other driver assistance will.

That might be the excuse depending on who was driving yes 👍

You do realize that the Maroon road surface you see in that turn which can also be seen on many road junctions/crossings throughout the UK and Australia and possibly many other places purposely has a higher grip threshold than standard grey/black tarmac in order to lower emergency braking distances, the only reason I can imagine that this surface is not at every turn and junction all around the world is down to expense.

 

[nowcontrol]

What so funny, son??

 

[mister dog]

What so funny, son??

Your comment.

 

[nowcontrol]

Your comment.

Do you disagree?? do you have a better more informative explanation??

 

[mister dog]

Do you disagree?? do you have a better more informative explanation??

Yes, no type of asphalt will save you from understeering into a wall at 200 k's an hour.

 

[nowcontrol]

Yes, no type of asphalt will save you from understeering into a wall at 200 k's an hour.

Did you tried it?

You cannot say how well a set of RH tyres slowing from 200kph on a smooth 35 degree curve with that surface will work.

 

[McLaren]

You do realize that the Maroon road surface you see in that turn which can also be seen on many road junctions/crossings throughout the UK and Australia and possibly many other places purposely has a higher grip threshold than standard grey/black tarmac in order to lower emergency braking distances, the only reason I can imagine that this surface is not at every turn and junction all around the world is down to expense.

I can only assume that this extra level of grip in these places has been properly simulated in the game.

The only reason the asphalt is red is due to aggregate they use. It's more likely it's red as a signal to motorists that there's a turn coming up ahead. Same reason you've seen it at road crossings.

 

[nowcontrol]

The only reason the asphalt is red is due to aggregate they use. It's more likely it's red as a signal to motorists that there's a turn coming up ahead. Same reason you've seen it at road crossings.

No ... It is there to reduce emergency braking distance. It's like grit levels of sandpaper, just imaging the red is rougher grit.

 

[nasanu]

But it does show the actual trajectory then even if the points at which it intervals would be displayed wrongly?
The way that Bugatti carries too much speed into the corner and understeers straight on he should have hit the wall. But instead we see a quick mid corner twitch of the steering wheel and he gets it back on line without any trouble.

And what assists were running? And what tyres does that car run? What amount of downforce does it generate?

Personally and as I have already stated, that looks like it has assists on.

Before posting anything remember the two criteria. Must not be any form of replay and must show that assists are off. Worthless otherwise.

 

[mister dog]

And what assists were running? And what tyres does that car run? What amount of downforce does it generate?

Personally and as I have already stated, that looks like it has assists on.

@Seanspeed where did you get this footage from, novice beginner or GT pro?

 

[7HO]

What does the skill of the drivers have to do with anything? Why are you mixing marketing (and paranoia) in with discussion of physics?

And I have read through this thread, that is why I challenged you to provide examples because I know they have not yet been provided.

Assists dont matter because of marketing... That's a new one.

Skilled drivers do not need assists and as you mentioned assists I'm saying if they used assists it is PD's fault for not showing the best they have knowing the world is watching and judging.

Also I showed you one example in my post but like all the others you have ignored it. Why should I go to effort to show you more when you are doing the same thing here, you are ignoring the examples you are seeing.

I'm not making any specific claim at all, I'm suggesting that you making sweeping assumptions based on marketing material and your own hopes isn't particularly useful.

Although I'm not surprised, you've done the exact same thing with GTS when people have attempted to have productive conversations about that.

Your suggestion is incorrect. I'm making assumptions based on every DD wheel produced, the pictures of the Thrustmaster wheel and a knowledge of the mechanics and systems that are used in these wheels and can be used in these wheels.

Hopes are not really involved. I was laughed at when I suggested over a year ago that Thrustmaster would likely be the first commercial mainstream DD wheel and it could be as soon as this year, at the same time I also mentioned how cheap the wheel can be produced. I'm already 2 for 2 on this. Any implementation of a DD wheel that Thrustmaster would be willing to bring to market will be better than any other commercial non DD wheel we currently have on the market, they really can't stuff this up. Direct drive is exactly that, it is direct with better response. If they go with a lowered powered motor than current options which is likely for a number of reasons then the response will be better over the current options. I could easily turn this into a text wall explaining the most likely build of this wheel and why they would choose that path and what that would mean pros and cons against all existing wheels. But I'll just stick with what I have said, there is no good reason for the price of this to be extreme and if it is high it is simply an early adopter tax and would be a mistake by Thrustmaster IMO. But no guarantee that it will not be expensive. I just doubt it will be based on an educated guess. And I'm sure this will be better than every other non DD wheel on the market and as I said Fanatec V3 pedals and much nicer rims is what will still make their wheel appealing to people.

Now for what it is worth, there is a good reason there has not been a disappointing implementation of direct drive yet. And I have not read a single claim from a person who has upgraded from Fanatec or any other non DD wheel to any DD wheel currently available and said that their previous wheel was comparable or in the same league. This includes the many people currently running their DD wheels at low levels of force as some users are running their AF wheels with lower force than the Fanatec wheel is capable of.

 

[McLaren]

No ... It is there to reduce emergency braking distance.

Post some sources then. Otherwise, yes, a red asphalt road is due to aggregate they use when building the road. If it's not red due to that, it's been sprayed red, again to signal something. Bicycle/bus lanes are commonly made red to identify them.

 

[nowcontrol]

http://www.omnicrete.com.au/road-safety-surfacing/

 

[nasanu]

Also I showed you one example in my post but like all the others you have ignored it. Why should I go to effort to show you more when you are doing the same thing here, you are ignoring the examples you are seeing.

What the 10 second thing? Who cars. We don't actually know what happened, being a kids race some kind of boost might have been applied. Either way that would disqualify on the no assists requirement.

And you don't need code to explain a 10 second difference either. I was 3.5 seconds a lap faster than some GTP members in the leagues I used to race in, they were experienced racers dedicated enough to be on here. Could I be 10 seconds a lap faster than a kid on track nobody knows with cars we have not driven in a race where the adults are likely holding back for the kids? Sure.

Post some sources then. Otherwise, yes, a red asphalt road is due to aggregate they use when building the road. If it's not red due to that, it's been sprayed red, again to signal something. Bicycle/bus lanes are commonly made red to identify them.

While I dont know the specific section of road PD copied, I know the red stuff on the road on my way to work (in shinjuku tokyo) is as grippy as a word GTP won't let me say. Its like sandpaper. BUT... Nobody really believes PD is modeling different track grip levels at different points of the track. That video is something else, my bet is assists.

And I have not read a single claim from a person who has upgraded from Fanatec or any other non DD wheel to any DD wheel currently available and said that their previous wheel was comparable or in the same league. This includes the many people currently running their DD wheels at low levels of force as some users are running their AF wheels with lower force than the Fanatec wheel is capable of.

They just spent thousands, their brain will tell them its better whether its better or not. You can give people the cheapest steak or wine and provided they are also made to think it's expensive they will tell you they both taste amazing. DD wheels might be amazing but the testimony of people who have invested a lot of their own money is not worth much.

 

[McLaren]

http://www.omnicrete.com.au/road-safety-surfacing/

That company is explaining what its product offers, not why the red roads all over the world are red.

Unless you can prove Omnicrete was used in that turn or is the sole provider of all red roads, try again.

 

[nowcontrol]

That company is explaining what its product offers, not why the red roads all over the world are red.

Unless you can prove Omnicrete was used in that turn or is the sole provider of all red roads, try again.

This is pretty much everywhere in the UK. and as that company is Australian, I'm sure it is everywhere there, too.

There is no other reason for roads that look like this. City Bus Lanes in the UK have this surface mandatory.