Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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Given that many of us have been doing so in other titles for two years, no. Not as much as those who seem to be looking at this as if GTS is offering cars that have never been seen this generation.

Sorry to hear that. For me, the prospect of lining up with a grid of potentially unique GT3 cars at the Nurburgring with adjustable weather, in an FIA approved racing game, is an exciting one. I get that the PC sim world has absolutely tons of variables/user-made content etc., but for me this is the best line-up I've seen for a single racing class in a 'casual' racing game.
 
2017 Acura NSX GT3
2014 Alfa Romeo 4C Gr. 3
2015 Audi R8 LMS
2012 Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3
2011 BMW Z4 GT3
2016 BMW M6 GT3
2014 Chevrolet Corvette C7 Gr. 3
2014 Dodge SRT Viper GT3-R
2013 Ferrari 458 Italia GT3
2015 Ford Mustang GT Gr. 3
2017 Honda NSX Gr. 3
2013 Hyundai Genesis Gr. 3
2015 Jaguar F-Type Gr. 3
2015 Lamborghini Huracan GT3
2016 Mazda Atenza Gr. 3
2015 McLaren 650S GT3
2015 Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-AMG GT3
2011 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3
2015 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X Final Edition Gr. 3
2013 Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3 N24 Schulze Motorsport
2015 Peugeot RCZ Gr. 3
2016 Renault Sport R.S.01 GT3
2014 Subaru WRX Gr. 3
2014 Toyota FT-1 Vision Gran Turismo Gr. 3
2014 Volkswagen GTI Vision Gran Turismo Gr. 3

Is anyone else excited about having 25 perfectly rendered GT3 cars to choose from? And that's not including some of the more concept-ish VGTs eligible.
25... That's more than the whole GTS grid (22, right?). Crazy. :drool:

Though the car list as a whole needs a lot of work, the amount of Gr.3 cars to choose from makes me giddy with excitement. I want them all! :D
 
The GT3 class needs Porsche, Ford GT, and Bentley. But I'm very pleased with it.

The former is the most likely since you need a Gr.3 Porsche for the manufacturers cup.

That'd probably be the perfect trio to add, but while I'm interested to see what they do end up adding, I'm also glad that there's a racing class in the game that really shouldn't leave me wanting more options.
 
It could be argued that GTS series are limited by similar constraints due to licencing limits and costs, I also would not personally swap what GTS is offering over the likes of mixed class racing or true rally classifications.

Guess we just differ in that regard, but I would far rather prefer GTS had real race series in it (or rather ones that clearly are based around them), rather than the made up ones its going to have.

Fantasy cars, on fantasy tracks, in fantasy series I would rather not have; particularly as the only way the GTS ones seem to differ is around a small number of BOP bands.

I suppose anything can be argued, but they are not similar other than "having costs".

Making a digital, rally-spec, NSX has only the Honda licensing and NSX sublicensing if not packaged, sourcing of the base car, and approval of the project by the license owner. The licensing costs would be there regardless of any different racing version they wish to create, so that's a "one time" cost to the producer. The limitations are approval and development time for a digital, immaterial, product.

Now developing and maintaining cars and/or teams in multiple series is in another level of cost. An entry spec series for amateurs/gentlemen like Lancer Cup here ran from 100k-150k dollars a season to maintain a car and team. And that's for a production car with basic modifications and usually one engineer and mechanic.
A quick google says the GT3 Ferrari runs for 587k dollars alone. Now add salaries and taxes, maintenance, and R&D depending on series (RIP Nissan GT-R LM). All accounted, it's probably not so short of a multi-millionaire endeavor for a team or manufacturer.
That's why 24h of Spa looks like this. They'll favor manufacturers that are "in the business" of making spec'd cars for certain restrictions.

And yes, while I don't know licensing costs for car brands in games, I don't believe licenses run that expensive or else games like Assetto Corsa or R3E would suffer to exist even with their minute development teams. I'll search again, but I think Kunos had about ~10mi euros profit from ~15mi revenue in their first year of AC or something. With 10+ manufacturers and 80+? cars at launch, if individual licenses had multi-millionaire prices they would never get off the ground.
Of course, licensing 20 Ferraris (and sourcing them) should be more expensive than 3 Holdens, so perhaps they do reach multi millions in some cases.

As for the rest, sure.
I love the Manufacturers' Cup. :embarrassed:

Guess what thigh? Turn 10 have 2 games behind them already on this gen and Forza 7 has 700 cars. More cars than the previous game were a given, so new features are their main bulletin points. GTS bulletin points should be about how great the features pertaining to gameplay are, but there simply nothing there, This is still a game aimed at the mainstream/casual players, but it offers very little, especially if you're coming from GT6 and don't race online. I still see some people online ( not on this site ) expecting a career mode, it baffles me that they don't do any hope work.

Ok. Or maybe it's the simpler and pardon my arrogance, much more likely explanation: Forza 7 is the poster game for Microsoft's new console, the Xbox One X. That's why the banner has a huge videogame in it.

But again that isn't true. I don't have an HDR screen so "simulating" it doesn't make sense.

Test with your TV settings.
Set backlight to max (if it's already at max you should calibrate it :lol:), it'll look too bright and blown, watch TV for a day or til your perception normalizes, then set it to minimum. It'll look really dark.

That's what they are doing, simulating or better, illustrating the brightness range perception. Good HDR panels have much better control of dark/light areas, so that's why they mess with exposure like that because that brightness range gain is proximate enough for a true HDR source and its SDR counterpart. But in this case, the "image HDR" is what you see in "actual SDR" and the "image SDR" is a "LowDR".

And when they want to show the hue range gain, they just blow the saturation out.
 
2017 Acura NSX GT3
2014 Alfa Romeo 4C Gr. 3
2015 Audi R8 LMS
2012 Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3
2011 BMW Z4 GT3
2016 BMW M6 GT3
2014 Chevrolet Corvette C7 Gr. 3
2014 Dodge SRT Viper GT3-R
2013 Ferrari 458 Italia GT3
2015 Ford Mustang GT Gr. 3
2017 Honda NSX Gr. 3
2013 Hyundai Genesis Gr. 3
2015 Jaguar F-Type Gr. 3
2015 Lamborghini Huracan GT3
2016 Mazda Atenza Gr. 3
2015 McLaren 650S GT3
2015 Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-AMG GT3
2011 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3
2015 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X Final Edition Gr. 3
2013 Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3 N24 Schulze Motorsport
2015 Peugeot RCZ Gr. 3
2016 Renault Sport R.S.01 GT3
2014 Subaru WRX Gr. 3
2014 Toyota FT-1 Vision Gran Turismo Gr. 3
2014 Volkswagen GTI Vision Gran Turismo Gr. 3

Is anyone else excited about having 25 perfectly rendered GT3 cars to choose from? And that's not including some of the more concept-ish VGTs eligible.

I counted 28 cars in the Gr. 3 class that's been seen so far.

Real life (13): R8, V12 Vantage, Z4, M6 (2x), Viper, 458, Huracan, 650S, SLS, AMG-GT, GT-R Nismo, R.S.01

PD Originals (11): 4C, Corvette, Mustang, NSX, Genesis, F-Type, Mazda 6, Lancer, RCZ, WRX, Beetle

VGT (4): Citroen GT, Peugeot VGT, FT-1, GTI

It's a solid mix between the contemporary, the odd, and the bizarre.
 
@Johnnypenso I disagree wholeheartedly, maybe you can force a good race with the AI by driving very underpowered cars (tried that and even then they were bad). But having AI that lets you by easily and you starting from last position in every single race isn't good racing at all.
Let's review what I said.

AI less than stellar? Check
You didn't enjoy the AI? Check
I don't enjoy the AI? Check
Millions of people did enjoy the AI? Check

So which of the above do you wholeheartedly disagree with?
 
Stopping the level design team from designing levels and stopping the photography team from designing photomode doesn't give the track creation, vehicle creation, physics, environment and sound teams any more time or personnel. It just stops there from being a 'career' or photomode.

Believe what you want, but a budget is a budget.
If you don't spend the money on one aspect, more man-hours can be dedicated to another.
 
Stopping the level design team from designing levels and stopping the photography team from designing photomode doesn't give the track creation, vehicle creation, physics, environment and sound teams any more time or personnel. It just stops there from being a 'career' or photomode.
It doesn't, but it could mean PD needs to shift the balance of employees. In other words, fire and hire until you have the proper amount of people in each position.
In other words, hire a good manager.
Basically it just seems like PD is incredibly mis-managed.
 
I suppose anything can be argued, but they are not similar other than "having costs".

Making a digital, rally-spec, NSX has only the Honda licensing and NSX sublicensing if not packaged, sourcing of the base car, and approval of the project by the license owner. The licensing costs would be there regardless of any different racing version they wish to create, so that's a "one time" cost to the producer. The limitations are approval and development time for a digital, immaterial, product.

Now developing and maintaining cars and/or teams in multiple series is in another level of cost. An entry spec series for amateurs/gentlemen like Lancer Cup here ran from 100k-150k dollars a season to maintain a car and team. And that's for a production car with basic modifications and usually one engineer and mechanic.
A quick google says the GT3 Ferrari runs for 587k dollars alone. Now add salaries and taxes, maintenance, and R&D depending on series (RIP Nissan GT-R LM). All accounted, it's probably not so short of a multi-millionaire endeavor for a team or manufacturer.
That's why 24h of Spa looks like this. They'll favor manufacturers that are "in the business" of making spec'd cars for certain restrictions.

And yes, while I don't know licensing costs for car brands in games, I don't believe licenses run that expensive or else games like Assetto Corsa or R3E would suffer to exist even with their minute development teams. I'll search again, but I think Kunos had about ~10mi euros profit from ~15mi revenue in their first year of AC or something. With 10+ manufacturers and 80+? cars at launch, if individual licenses had multi-millionaire prices they would never get off the ground.
Of course, licensing 20 Ferraris (and sourcing them) should be more expensive than 3 Holdens, so perhaps they do reach multi millions in some cases.

As for the rest, sure.
I love the Manufacturers' Cup. :embarrassed:
Which is exactly why a comparison against the costs it takes to race in a series is not a sensible comparison to make, even when talking about limits to manufacturers being able to afford to compete.

Now if GTS had every car and manufacturer that takes part in the BTCC (and other Touring car series that run to the same regs), WEC, Super GT and DTM, and then allowed them to race together you would have a point, however it doesn't. As such this apparent advantage simply doesn't exist in reality.

Rather I see GTS' racing series as far more limited that using real racing series or even 'cloning' real series.

The four you mentioned (BTCC, WEC, Super GT and DTM) all having differing ranges of manufacturers and models, along with very different rule and regulation structures and running formats.

With GTS we appear to have racing series that differ very, very little apart from the BOP range for each (a few N series, Gr.4, Gr.3, etc).

Yet by following or cloning real series we could have multi-class racing, mandatory pit stops, tyres changes, multi race formats (sprint followed by main race, etc), differing penalties, Joker laps, ballast, the list goes on and on.
 
Let's review what I said.

AI less than stellar? Check
You didn't enjoy the AI? Check
I don't enjoy the AI? Check
Millions of people did enjoy the AI? Check

So which of the above do you wholeheartedly disagree with?

That part. How can anyone enjoy that?
 
So you enjoyed driving alongside brain dead AI that literally brakes to let you pass?

If yes, than fair enough.
In truth, it's only done that since the Dev's gimped it in GT5. I believe I pointed that out.... Your insulting attitude is noted. Enjoy your online race with one winner and everyone else is a... what was it Flav called everyone else... :cheers:

Poor taste jokes aside. It's a GAME. Most people who play games expect to win. It isn't taken seriously. People who look for competition are an entirely different breed. That's why I feel this game will fail on the sales front.
 
So you enjoyed driving alongside brain dead AI that literally brakes to let you pass?

If yes, than fair enough.
I haven't played the Beta but it's sad to hear that the AI is still no better than previous editions.

It was one of the most requested upgrades asked for.
 
I haven't played the Beta but it's sad to hear that the AI is still no better than previous editions.

It was one of the most requested upgrades asked for.

It's better, but it's still too slow. Hope they fix that.

In truth, it's only done that since the Dev's gimped it in GT5. I believe I pointed that out.... Your insulting attitude is noted. Enjoy your online race with one winner and everyone else is a... what was it Flav called everyone else... :cheers:

I insulted the AI. So unless you're the one who did the coding, then you should not take offence.

So you only enjoy races you win?
 
It's better, but it's still too slow. Hope they fix that.



I insulted the AI. So unless you're the one who did the coding, then you should not take offence.

So you only enjoy races you win?

Really?

So you enjoyed driving alongside brain dead AI

Reads like an insult aimed at me to me.

You like cheats that punt if you try to pass? You like cheats that don't even bother to brake for corners and just hit the barriers and pinball off them? You like it that if you hit the track like that you used to get a Safety Rating knock so someone like me, who stayed on the track didn't have to race people like that, but they complained to the Devs so they removed circuit crashes from safety ratings? You like that? You are welcome to it.
 
So you enjoyed driving alongside brain dead AI that literally brakes to let you pass?

If yes, than fair enough.
That would be GT6 and GT5 end of life specifically. Not GT1-GT3 (brain dead, but fairly decently hidden rubber banding and occasionally did make realistic looking mistakes on rare occasions), not GT4 (some of the worst ever in a racing game, but PD occasionally cheated in AI car pool selection so you couldn't notice so easily and it crashed all the time so you could be fooled into thinking otherwise) or GT5 at launch (actually fairly intelligent and realistically mistake-prone, but hopelessly conservative).



GTPSP's was arguably even worse than GT6's, but GTPSP sucked in general so it's no surprise; and the two of them were easily the least widespread of the big entries.
 
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That would be GT6 and GT5 end of life specifically. Not GT1-GT3 (brain dead, but fairly decently hidden rubber banding and occasionally did make realistic looking mistakes on rare occasions), not GT4 (some of the worst ever in a racing game, but PD occasionally cheated in AI car pool selection so you couldn't notice so easily and it crashed all the time so you could be fooled into thinking otherwise) or GT5 at launch (actually fairly intelligent and realistically mistake-prone, but hopelessly conservative).



GTPSP's was arguably even worse than GT6's, but GTPSP sucked in general so it's no surprise; and the two of them were easily the least widespread of the big entries.

I like GTPSP :(

Really?



Reads like an insult aimed at me to me.

You like cheats that punt if you try to pass? You like cheats that don't even bother to brake for corners and just hit the barriers and pinball off them? You like it that if you hit the track like that you used to get a Safety Rating knock so someone like me, who stayed on the track didn't have to race people like that, but they complained to the Devs so they removed circuit crashes from safety ratings? You like that? You are welcome to it.

My experience with the beta couldn't have been more different than yours. I hope for the EU with a wider pool of players, these issues get sorted though.
 
I like GTPSP :(



My experience with the beta couldn't have been more different than yours. I hope for the EU with a wider pool of players, these issues get sorted though.
Ha. In the early days of the EU beta. You were either driving a 4WD or you only needed to count how many of them were behind you to know how many places you'll lose at the start! Then at least 50% of them would ghost out as they slammed corner one. They fixed that, but the player base was too small for proper matchmaking to take place.
 
That part. How can anyone enjoy that?
Lots of people that prefer offline racing would ask the same question about racing online. How can you enjoy waiting around for lobbies to fill up and races to start? How can you enjoy racing with strangers and getting punted off the track? How can you enjoy racing when you aren't very good at it? This isn't hard to figure out. We're all different. Many people aren't looking for close, competitive racing against equals, they just want to sit in front of their console with a controller and beat up on AI without having to worry about rules and regulations and people yelling at them about doing stuff wrong etc. I think it's called casual gaming.
 
It's based on my experience of games released rather than upcoming. I didn't like the online in PCARS. I join a session, spend 10 mins Qualifying then realize there is still 10 more mins of it (I'm already getting bored). During the race which has 16 cars and lasts for 10 laps, I have a battle with one or two drivers because a lot have already crashed and rage quit, or they're aliens with tunes that I won't catch. Plus the fact there will always be a car at the start line that just sits there for the whole race.

GT seems to build on what Driveclub did. Makes it simple and fast to join an event. Qualifying before the event is much better in my opinion (or the option to have it) and entering race knowing full well that you'll have great battles is what kept me playing the beta.

So you're comparing it to GT6, DC, and... a brief experience with PCARS? That's not exactly an exhaustive list of console racers. :P

Outside of update days, racing in the GT Sport beta was only available three hours a day (or 1/8 of the day). That's not great availability — though it's obvious that'll be changed for the final release, we don't know all the details of how sanctioned races will take place. There will be user-created lobbies, sure — but that's true of every game, really (even Assetto Corsa, finally). It's simple and fast to join races in a bunch of other games.

Your experience with other drivers in PCARS (battle with one or two, some uncatchable aliens) is almost surely the same sort of experience some folks will have in GT Sport. As others have mentioned, it remains to be seen how well the general gaming public will react to the idea of playing a racing game where they usually don't win. You and I may like it, but will Joe Casual? I mean, I hope they do!

In the final month of the beta, I found a lot of dirty drivers. People repeatedly swerving to block on straights, divebombing, brake checking — it was all there, and I was a B/A driver up until the final week! It was especially prevalent on Tokyo, where people could scrub you into the wall without concern for their own rating. IMO, great battles are not universal: in my experience it was about 50/50.

I too like the pre-race qualifying in GT Sport. That said, someone being able to knock out a quick qualifier and then being able to use that for grid placement in multiple races feels a little strange. IMO, it's still better than a forced pre-race qualifier every single online race though.
 
Lots of people that prefer offline racing would ask the same question about racing online. How can you enjoy waiting around for lobbies to fill up and races to start? How can you enjoy racing with strangers and getting punted off the track? How can you enjoy racing when you aren't very good at it? This isn't hard to figure out. We're all different. Many people aren't looking for close, competitive racing against equals, they just want to sit in front of their console with a controller and beat up on AI without having to worry about rules and regulations and people yelling at them about doing stuff wrong etc. I think it's called casual gaming.
I'm on the complete opposite on this. I very little reward beating AI opponents, but we're all different.
 
@SlipZtrEm I've put 20+ hours in PCARS, as well as racing online in DiRT and brief online racing with AC using a friend's PC. I can't really comment about the online in Forza though but I think that's probably all the racing games on the PS4 (won't include NFS, I hated it).

I agree with your point about how people might react when they don't win. But hopefully with the amount of emphasis on etiquette -- they'll behave. But 50-50 is a lot better odds than Driveclub online :D
 
I haven't played the Beta but it's sad to hear that the AI is still no better than previous editions.

It was one of the most requested upgrades asked for.

Here's a look at some footage of A.I. drivers:

Cockpit footage:


Replay footage:


Looks like the A.I. is a lot faster, and more aggressive - the M6 behind the user's GT is overtaking other A.I. drivers (you can see in the replay footage). No indication of what level the A.I. is, but it's looking like I'll have to be crafty with my overtaking the A.I. on higher difficulties, which is a very welcomed changed for me.
 
Ha. In the early days of the EU beta. You were either driving a 4WD or you only needed to count how many of them were behind you to know how many places you'll lose at the start! Then at least 50% of them would ghost out as they slammed corner one. They fixed that, but the player base was too small for proper matchmaking to take place.
I do hope the matchmaking is better at release. i was always rammed to oblivion later in the Beta's life
 

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