Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion
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PhaedrusSocrate
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I don't believe that intelect like your has missed the PS4 existence as additional reason? Amazing.
Using your logic what can I learn to be more logical and FAIR? Can I learn something of the sort and what... Ok, let me see, you kindly fill me in on anything I miss!
I remember your shining example to us all in recent days nitpicking everyones quotes regarding "numbers of employes appart from people hired trough other means to do exact same job on exact same game", you were masterful at every details (although not from everyones perspective).
And today you are completely capable of pretending you are cognitively unable to connect additional fact that GT6 launched in PS4 era, with DriveClub promised soon and with free version.
I believe that did have much greater effect then what is the difference between "employees and other workers hired trough other means to do exact same job on exact same game".
I know there is planty to dislike in the ways i express my self, and even in many other regards - BUT what kinds of examples can teach me to be better. Instead of just mods brute power flexing. I do believe positive examples to be much more productive.
Tired Tyres
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And believe is all you can say about that. Just as I believe that the PS4 argument is total rubbish. How many PS4's had been sold by that time? How many PS3's had been sold? I think anyone who wanted GT6 would have bought it, or did everyone who bought a PS4 trade in their PS3 to finance the deal - and did all of them assume GT6 would be for the PS4?
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- Neomone
I don't believe an intellect like yours has missed that he was making the exact point that there are more factors to it that just the sales number?
You can choose to believe that those factors are whatever you like, and there's an interesting discussion to be had around that. But you're only reinforcing @Scaff point, that the sales figures are not the whole story.
Showing people the logical fallacies inherent in extending their reasoning is not power flexing. Using words is not an example of a mod using their "power", except in as much as it's a power that we all share.
Scaff
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The passive aggressive attitude seems to have returned.
That sales = popularity wasn't my logic, you seem to have missed that.
That's the exact opposite of what I was saying, hence the reason why I said "Sales are an important metric, but they are not the be all and end all of heritage, influence, popularity and in particular quality."
I'm not quite sure why you keep putting "employees and other workers hired trough other means to do exact same job on exact same game" in quotes when quoting me given that I never said that?
Not to mention that you are still missing the point, so just to be clear the only thing that sales numbers indicate is the number of units an item has sold. Alone it doesn't indicate popularity, how much its liked, how good itr is, nothing. It only indicates how many units were sold.
If you have an issue with it being linked to any other metric (objective or subjective) then you are talking to the wrong person.
You have been asked to stop making this blatantly inaccurate and incorrect assumption already.
As you seem to be incapable of doing so, it can be assumed that you are doing it knowing full well that its missleading. The AUP is quite clear in this regard.
A quite reminder of two points in the AUP you agreed to follow when you joined:
- You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.
- You will, if asked by a representative of the forums, cease posting any content
This is not a point for discussion or debate, you already know what you should do if you believe a post violates the AUP (regardless of who posts it, be it a member of staff or not).
As such should you continue this line, or try and argue the point it will be treated as what it is, a deliberate AUP violation.
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The PS4 only sold 18 million, one full year after release. It had a significantly smaller player base, and you think it would have sold more on a console with that much smaller player base in comparison? Do you think more than half of every single PS4 player would have bought it at the time? It couldn't even pull in that much of the player base of PS3 of it tried.
- 982
I'm laughing at the poor logic used to downplay GT sales 
Poor analogy.
1) NMS sales crashed after the first month, meanwhile GT5 went on to sell a further 6 million in 6 years. Games with bad reception don;t continue selling millions as the years go by.
2) NMS actually has a fairly big fanbase. They recently had 250,000 players online over 8 weeks.
Thats not my logic. Software sales = popularity especially sustained ones.
Your logic makes no sense: bringing total hardware sales when not every PS3 is still active and not every player is even going to be interested in racing or GT.
A poor counter point as a hardware sales and software sales are not linearly dependant.
Another pointless question as sales continue for many years to come. PS4 is nearing 70 million.
Poor analogy.
1) NMS sales crashed after the first month, meanwhile GT5 went on to sell a further 6 million in 6 years. Games with bad reception don;t continue selling millions as the years go by.
2) NMS actually has a fairly big fanbase. They recently had 250,000 players online over 8 weeks.
Thats not my logic. Software sales = popularity especially sustained ones.
Your logic makes no sense: bringing total hardware sales when not every PS3 is still active and not every player is even going to be interested in racing or GT.
A poor counter point as a hardware sales and software sales are not linearly dependant.
Another pointless question as sales continue for many years to come. PS4 is nearing 70 million.
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Scaff
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Your logic is an attempt to claim that sales numbers indicate anything other than numbers sold.
Alone they are worthless for that.
So is every copy of GT6 still 'active'? I know mine isn't, its sat in a cupboard.
Attach rate however is used as a common measure of the popularity of software.
"The attach rate concept is widely used as a means of reporting desirable sales associations/outcomes in the computer/video gaming industry, and in technology-related marketing in general. While complexities of real situations can obscure interpretation, attach rates often provide a metric for marketers of both primary and secondary products, allowing them to assess and even forecast the impact of the popularity of a given technology platform."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attach_rate
- 982
I like how you're arguing that No Man's Sky's bad reception is borne out by its sales collapse, but then arguing that it is actually popular anyway.
And then did it again.
Not at all. One again you fail at reading the points
1) NMS had bad reception, this is seen with the front loaded sales. GT had no such thing. So much for the bad reception the same few continue chanting
2) Sure the game got a bad reception, but its playerbase is still notably large. There is aspects that have made it garner a notable popularity.
Nope. Sales show popularity. How much a game is liked by a certain base of buyers.
Attach rate you're referring to you is used for total software sales: PS4 has an attach rate of 7.XX.
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- 14,435
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- Lma_robot
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Yes they are when specifically talking about how small the actual amount of consoles sold. If you say that than If the Ps4 only sold 10 million units by the same time, do you believe that 10 million people would have still bought the game? The amount of consoles sold comes in with direct relevance.
Ironic that you talk about poor counter points
It had great reception before the game released. Not so much after. Something that millions of sales didn't changeNMS had bad reception, this is seen with the front loaded sales. GT had no such thing. So much for the bad reception the same few continue chanting
Scaff
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That's not what is happening at all.I'm laughing at the poor logic used to downplay GT sales
Citation required.
And can apply to individual titles as well (as the source quite clearly said - as it applies to primary and secondary products).
Total PS3 consoles sold: 80 million
GT5 Copies Sold: 12 Million (attach rate of 15%)
GTA V (PS3) copies sold: 22 million (attach rate of 27%)
Which title was more popular among PS3 owners GT5 or GTAV?
Oh and stop double posting.
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Them goalposts, they are a-movin'. You said sales = a game that is liked. No Man's Sky is a counterexample. If the timing and history of the sales is a factor, then that's an additional thing that you're adding into consideration.
It's regaining what it lost, mainly because they've spent the last year working on big patches to include some of the features that were originally promised. Like many games, it sees big spikes in players when there's a new patch as everyone logs on to see what changed.
It's actually starting to turn into a fairly decent game, but that doesn't alter the fact that it was a game that sold extremely well and was almost universally disliked. I'm sorry that it goes against your idea that sales = a game that is liked.
It's an indicator of popularity. But in and of itself, sales only tells you about how many copies were sold. It's information that can be used in conjunction with other information to build a rational justification that a game was well received, but it's not enough by itself. Especially with the state of pre-order culture these days, where games can sell several million copies before anyone has even played it.
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No. You're just so desperate to get something to stick that you're arguing distinct concepts as if they are all the same thing.Not at all. One again you fail at reading the points
Oh, so long term sales aren't synonymous with if a game is popular or not. Glad you agree.
How is popularity the only metric that coincides with long term sales when brand recognition is supposedly such a big deal? Do cost reduction and reissues somehow not play a factor at all in something selling well after six months? If long term sales are the key, why did Sony deliberately sacrifice them for a heavily front-loaded launch with GT6? If the GT brand following GT5 has so much popularity and brand strength, why was it completely dominated by simply being on an older console that far more people owned at the time anyway? And do you really think GT6 was going to get an attach rate in the first year as a PS4 title (and we're talking probably 30%+) that would have it match the sales it actually had as a PS3 game?
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- 14,435
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yes, coming up on 4 years later. Gran Turismo 5, the biggest seller last gen only started dwindling more and more as it came to. Had GT6 been developed from the start, on the PS4, I don't think it would have garnered any better attention, especially considering the scope of the game and how it turned out. There was a lot more to do than just a new console generation coming out. The people that would have been interested in this game would have gotten regardless of it being on PS3 or PS4, I doubt the console gap stopped the sales by half almost.
NMS sales crashed just as much as GT5's crashed. Again, total number of sales doesn't make for bad or good reception. Something that sells a little doesn't mean it's bad, and just like that, something that sells a lot doesn't mean it's great either. Like I mentioned, that you keep ignoring, the Division sold 8 million in it's first year, and that game was received very badly throughout the community.
The Division sold more in one year than GT6 did in it's whole lifetime, so does that mean it's more popular? I would probably say no, it got a lot of flack from it's community, and it's online numbers took a nose dive soon after release, when people started finding out it's issues.
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I'm laughing at the poor logic used to downplay GT sales
Poor logic is suggesting sales figures represent how well a game is liked. They don't. They can be a very, very rough indicator, perhaps, but you're still operating on a huge assumption. Or multiple.
Even you don't seem convinced by the prospect though, since you're arguing NMS is both a failure and popular in the same posts.
GT5 sold 7.3 million after its first 12 months. Its current total is 11.95, a figure that essentially hasn't changed in nearly two years (it was 11.94 in September 2015). Of course, the pertinent question is why you're talking about GT5 and not the most recent title in the series. I can hazard a guess as to why, but I'd rather hear it.
This isn't people picking on GT: the entire genre is selling less than it used to, and seemingly no franchise is immune to it. GT, Forza, PCARS (looking at NFS Shift 1 & 2)... they all hit sales peaks many moons ago.
Also, you've been here more than long enough to know to not double-post. Use the Edit or +Quote buttons.
I hope they have a new trailer for Gamescom with rain and snow footage
It'd be good, right? We're two months away now — I believe the rain trailer for GT5 was shown around that time before the game launched.
Who knows, GT Sport may only have a light presence at Gamescom. Like E3, it will have PCARS2 and FM7 to contend with in terms of eyeballs — meanwhile, at Tokyo Game Show in September, neither will have as much of a presence. Sony may be saving the big guns for the home turf advantage.
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But I want car football. That would be so much better than this "Sport mode". Who wants to race against humans?I hope they have a new trailer for Gamescom with rain and snow footage
Edit -
I do remember someone from Sony saying he saw GT showing snow at the Nurburgring. I can't believe it though. I do think snow tracks should be in, but has there been anything which suggests GTS will have them?
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Yes that would be good and it's about time in my opinion.
Maybe Kaz will be there for a presentation? Would be good too
Colorado Springs is a Dirt and Snow track.(and Sardegna)
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Firehuntah
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I'd love to see snow at the Nurburgring, would be a lot of fun.
But we're definately getting a snow track or indeed a weather type if they go that route. Snow tyres were in the beta, there's no reason for them to exist if they're not planning on including snow.No, it's just in the category Dirt / Snow. Doesn't mean there will be a snow version of Colorado Springs. It does however confirm that there will be a snow track in that category as well, otherwise the category would just be called Dirt circuit.
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I guess all Dirt tracks will have Snow versions
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Scaff
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I wouldn't assume that, past GT titles have lumped the Dirt and Snow tracks into one catagory, and none of those had snow versions of the dirt tracks.
It will certainly be interesting if GTS does have a snowy 'ring, as it will make for interesting comparisons to PCars 2's version.
Video not illustrative of PS4 gameplay, as apparently some people don't get that!
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Firehuntah
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Yeah i deleted the wrong quoteYou quoted another_jakhole but it's actually my quote.But no you got it wrong again, that's not what I tried to explain. Dirt / Snow circuit is just a category, all snow and dirt tracks will be in that category. Doesn't mean that all of them will have a dirt and snow variation.
Yes you guys are right and I forgot that:tup:
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At least we know they have the intention to put snow tracks in the game
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About the sales debate, I wonder would the ps4 had sold more in its first year if gt6 were for it and not ps3? That will be interesting to see in the future if pd puts out a GT game for a new system in its first year. I can't predict how much GTS will sell. But if I were to guess it would be a hard feat to reach a (current) 10% ps4 total. So if it hits 7, 8 million I think that's a homerun for them.
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