Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[ImaRobot]

People shouldnt only pick one. I bought pcars and dirt rally myself too.

The questions you posed seem to tell a different story.

What i not get is that people write like everything about GT is bad and other games are superior in every way - and than write here in the GT forum instead of just having fun discussing their superior games in their forums!! Whats the point of riding a self declaired (dont know if the right word) dead horse?

For the most part, its constructive criticism, although its very unlikely that it'll even get through to the end user, but still its all the same. It's you who are causing the problem, as if this is just blind hate. There is a reason behind it, and while you don't see it, you are here being dismissive because of it. These problems exists, and the fans that are posting here would like to see some changes, that is all. Yes, those ugly non-constructive posts do sneak in, but for the most part, this is a pretty straightforward discussion.

I mean, i dont go to the PCars forum and spam it with things i dont like about the game - because i dont like it that much, i dont play it and dont write about it - why should i? Just to piss off people who like the game

It's your own fault that you can't handle the negatives that people are saying. Whats the point in trying to white-knight the whole situation? You're just frustrating yourself for no reason, it looks like. Being vocal about problems is likely the best way for things to get noticed. If not that, if you're actually being constructive, you might be helping others with it. It could look like a review of sorts.

 

[05XR8]

I do see PD missed adding the GT Academy real life events as a separate mode. Why they didn't replicate a:

"Match Lucas Ordonez lap of" whatever track with whatever car.

Choose one of the six available GTA 370Zs and try to beat the other five cars around Silverstone.

Test your offroad skill in the buggy across a challenging mud & dirt course from GTA.

Race various GTA winner's real time "ghost" GT-Rs around Silverstone.

Follow the path of Jann Mardenborough from GTA to Le Mans.

PD could have made a dart board and picked one out of many ides from GTA but, they didn't. GTS has to be different. Not to be silly but, imagine in between driving events, we had an option to tap the square and circle button, as our avatars do running events to build stamina.

PD need to do something.

 

[ron86]

Whatever guys, i will take another break.

 

[PzR Slim]

People shouldnt only pick one. I bought pcars and dirt rally myself too.

What i not get is that people write like everything about GT is bad and other games are superior in every way - and than write here in the GT forum instead of just having fun discussing their superior games in their forums!! Whats the point of riding a self declaired (dont know if the right word) dead horse?

I mean, i dont go to the PCars forum and spam it with things i dont like about the game - because i dont like it that much, i dont play it and dont write about it - why should i? Just to piss off people who like the game?

How do you know we don't care more deeply for GT than you ever have? For many of us, I assume, GT was the game that started it all. Many of us are hugely disappointed that the game has gone from such heights to its current malaise. We constructively criticise in the hope that it may regain what it once was. If we all sit here and pat PDI on the back for the recent mess they have turned out it ain't ever going to get better. So you sit there in your rose tinted world where everything is fine with GT, whilst the rest of us living in the real world will discuss its shortcomings

 

[Ameer67]

@ron86, let me tell you something about this place we call GTPlanet. When you first visit this website, you expect to find fans of Gran Turismo, who wouldn't? So then you enter the forums and end up clicking on a thread like this. The first thing that might stick out is the large amount of negativity about the game. This is a GT fan-site though, is it not? Well yes, it is. Many people grew up with the name "Gran Turismo" in their heads and here we are, nearly 20 years since the launch of the first game. In recent years though, the series hasn't really lived up to its name. Understandably and with good reason, people are concerned and frustrated. But here's the thing: no one, not even those who post the criticism you commonly view on this website, wants to see the series die and become a thing of the past. GT is something we all love in some shape or form, no matter how critical posts on the internet may seem.

 

[Soundtrack]

This is a complete guess but I'm willing to bet Kaz always asked for better hardware, they got an extra core so they're trying to make the best of that, then they probably saw the PS4K and decided nope let's wait and see what we can do with that.

If I'm not mistaken it is Shuhei Yoshida who insisted for GT's PSVR compatibility. A hardware update lines in with the apparent difficulty to extract 1080/60 out of the original box. Why would you blame PD for this? Are they accountable of the VR tech requirements? It seems Sony are prominently responsible here, and they better come with a viable alternative should the next GT game come to PS4 with considerable sacrifices made to performance.

 

[sems4arsenal]

@Soundtrack Wouldn't be surprised if that is the case.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If I'm not mistaken it is Shuhei Yoshida who insisted for GT's PSVR compatibility. A hardware update lines in with the apparent difficulty to extract 1080/60 out of the original box. Why would you blame PD for this? Are they accountable of the VR tech requirements? It seems Sony are prominently responsible here, and they better come with a viable alternative should the next GT game come to PS4 with considerable sacrifices made to performance.

The PS4 hardware is more than capable of maintaining a rock solid 1080/60fps performance so long as you don't try to do things beyond the capability of the hardware, given that performance limitation. Forza 6 is able to maintain a locked 1080/60 on lesser hardware for example.

 

[TayeezSA]

I'm putting my money on reaching 200 pages on this thread before a GTS announcement is made.

I wonder what's keeping PD so busy now. It's past Early 2016.

 

[Soundtrack]

@sems4arsenal I'm still in denial.

@Johnnypenso How many AAA games on PS4 have already achieved this? Why would Sony feel the need of a GPU update? Is there something flawed in the original design? Is Forza 6 VR compatible? All serious questions btw.

 

[Johnnypenso]

@Johnnypenso How many AAA games on PS4 have already achieved this?[/QUOTE]
Don't know. But since it's possible on the lesser XBone, it's also possible on the PS4. It's a question of working within the limitations of the system if you want to hit the target. It obviously means you won't get everything you want but we already know this from DriveClub and it's excellent looking but 30 fps performance. Maybe you have to give up dynamic weather and/or polygons and/or cars on track and/or 3D grass etc. etc. etc.

Why would Sony feel the need of a GPU update? Is there something flawed in the original design?

A flaw? No? Substandard performance specs for trying to run a locked 60fps while maintaining the graphics and gameplay standards people are used to in 2016...most likely. Performance expectations have changed quite a bit in the few years since the specs for the PS4 were created and VR has a lot to do with that, particularly the 60fps locked part.

Is Forza 6 VR compatible?

If it's locked at 1080/60fps and is played through a system such as Morpheus which effectively doubles the frame rate then I'd say that Forza 6 is more than ready for VR.

 

[Pillo-san]

I think it is possible to hit the sweet spot 1080/60 if they use same graphic quality as gt6. I mean the premium cars look really good. Ok maybe 100 cars are not possible but at least 24 at the grid with the same premium quality. After all, PD are magician when it comes to how good and real like the premium cars look and that is on a ps3.. I am very impressed by that.

 

[Soundtrack]

If it's locked at 1080/60fps and is played through a system such as Morpheus which effectively doubles the frame rate then I'd say that Forza 6 is more than ready for VR.

This is new to me. I was under the impression that the game wasn't virtual reality compliant at all. Will check in the appropriate forum section.

 

[cutmeamango]

That was a feature?

No, I forgot. It was a marketing ploy full of non-answers meant to remove funds from Driveclub.

Of course it was, the documentary short was included in the game along the car.

If it's locked at 1080/60fps and is played through a system such as Morpheus which effectively doubles the frame rate then I'd say that Forza 6 is more than ready for VR.

Doesn't work like that. You have to essentially draw the same scene twice so that's why VR/stereo rendering is costly.
And it's not the headset or its PU doing the reprojection, that's done by the PS4.

But if they met a goal once, they can meet twice.

This is new to me. I was under the impression that the game wasn't virtual reality compliant at all. Will check in the appropriate forum section.

You'll have to wait for Forza 6 Apex to see if they support any headsets or if someone brute-force/hacks it in.

 

[Pillo-san]

just like cutemeamango says it is 2xpic(resolution x2).

 

[Soundtrack]

You'll have to wait for Forza 6 Apex to see if they support any headsets or if someone brute-force/hacks it in.

So that's on the PC not the console. Comparison should stop here then.

@Johnnypenso Couldn't find any evidence of VR compatibility I'm afraid.

 

[Pillo-san]

Forza 6 will be on pc through (UWP), hoping for unlocked fps/hz and compatible with any pc ffb wheel will be considered a miracle. Universal window platform games equals a xbox emulation. so no sli/xfire or any fancy stuff like that for us on pc.

 

[avens]

Isn’t that exactly the problem? Fluctuating 40-60 frames/sec will not do if the PSVR info we got is correct. With Sony just dropping the most likely racing game alternative for the virtual headset it becomes more likely GT is going to showcase that feature, as the game is officially announced VR compatible. So unless it’s a dedicated on side experience with a limited amount of optimised assets and gameplay, this compatibility could in theory affect or worse compromise other more important aspects of the software.

A steady 30fps is, in my opinion, a rather sensible approach for a console racing game with visually intensive/demanding feature, but is this still going to be a viable alternative for PD? I doubt they can compromise much on the spatial resolution as native 1920x1080 could become critical for smooth UHD upscaling, right another of Sony’s vested interest. Eventually Sony could of course shoehorn some umpf in a console revision...

Anyway, trying to remain positive, this convoluted situation could offer the perfect opportunity for PD to bring a comprehensive option panel under the game preference tab.

For Gran Turismo I would prefer perfectly steady 30 FPS (alike Drive Club) over highly fluctuating ~60 FPS (alike GT5 and GT6), that running at "real" 1080p.

At least it would be more sincere. In a very large part Gran Turismo games are about the graphics, not the smooth gameplay.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Doesn't work like that. You have to essentially draw the same scene twice so that's why VR/stereo rendering is costly.
And it's not the headset or its PU doing the reprojection, that's done by the PS4.

But if they met a goal once, they can meet twice.

You'll have to wait for Forza 6 Apex to see if they support any headsets or if someone brute-force/hacks it in.

just like cutemeamango says it is 2xpic(resolution x2).

Nope. Each side of the Morpheus VR headset is 960x1080. Together they are 1920x1080, same as a single screen. It's the EPU that takes that effective 1080/60 and doubles it to 1080/120. The PS4 need only render a locked 1080/60 for Morpheus to work.

@Johnnypenso Couldn't find any evidence of VR compatibility I'm afraid.

I didn't say it was compatible. I said if it maintains 1080/60 and could be played through a system like Morpheus then it's ready for VR.

 

[avens]

@ron86, do yourself a favor and try iRacing.

Not only the GT series is trailing behind in the technical aspect, which most likely is the cause of the series losing half its sales in the most recent game, but also the best racing games out there already have much improved the gameplay the GT series is famous for, which if unchanged will be the cause of GT's demise in the future.

In GT the gameplay is solely about starting in last place and catching up, without racing rules. That's not competitive racing. One could argue the Gran Turismo series technically is not a racing franchise, but hot lapping. On the other hand, in iRacing and in recent titles in general you can be proud of achieving a 5th place, that with actual racing rules. That's a race, and when comparing a hotlap with a race the latter is clearly way more fun.

Some days ago we were talking about Euro Truck Simulator 2, the best seller and most popular driving/racing game on the PC. That game is all about innovation, improving the formula. I don't know PD even knows that word, as they have been solely focusing on the graphics forever.

For the sake of the present the GT series must improve its presentation, right now. Sound is a big part of that. For the sake of the future the GT must improve its gameplay, right now. AI and racing rules are crucial, and PD is trailing behind on that even more than in the sound department.

 

[cutmeamango]

Nope. Each side of the Morpheus VR headset is 960x1080. Together they are 1920x1080, same as a single screen. It's the EPU that takes that effective 1080/60 and doubles it to 1080/120. The PS4 need only render a locked 1080/60 for Morpheus to work.

I didn't say it was compatible. I said if it maintains 1080/60 and could be played through a system like Morpheus then it's ready for VR.

Rendering is not just about pixel filling. Before that you have to render the geometry twice. Drawing the scene.
So it's not the same as rendering a 1080p60 scene once.

And no, the Processing Unit just does audio virtualization and unwraps and send a "social screen" signal to the TV at 720p.

• It provides no extra GPU or CPU power.
• It's not any form of PS4 expansion or upgrade.
• It's not directly accessible by the developer in any way - code cannot be written to it.

"The PS4 is perfectably capable of 120Hz all on its own," said Norden, emphasising that the main game rendering and processing is all carried out by the main console.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...tation-vr-external-processor-unit-actually-do

Reprojection is done by the PS4.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Rendering is not just about pixel filling. Before that you have to render the geometry twice. Drawing the scene.
So it's not the same as rendering a 1080p60 scene once.

And no, the Processing Unit just does audio virtualization and unwraps and send a "social screen" signal to the TV at 720p.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...tation-vr-external-processor-unit-actually-do

Reprojection is done by the PS4.

I stand corrected:tup: I'm out of date on my research

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Rendering is not just about pixel filling. Before that you have to render the geometry twice. Drawing the scene.
So it's not the same as rendering a 1080p60 scene once.

Whilst scenes do to be drawn twice I don't believe this necessarily equates to twice the work, because the two scenes will naturally be very similar (though I'm not aware of the specific techniques used to make the process less expensive).

 

[Pillo-san]

They are similar but they are two slightly different images, one side sees more of one side and the other sees farther out the the other side. just close one of you eyes and you know what I am talking about. that difference is what makes a 3d picture or rather your brain makes it to a 3d picture.

Maybe it is possible to have two identical pictures that are slightly offset by the lens, but it does not seem it is working like this. Because I have the DK1 and the pictures seems just to be drawn a bit differently/left sees more to the left/right more to the right.


edit: now that I think about it, It is not possible to offset the lens on a 2d screen because left/right eye sees an object form different spacial perspective. Ie take an object in a 3d cad program and turn it slightly in one direction and a totally new "picture" on screen is made.

 

[Filip JDM]

I was just watching this video

And imagine how awesome photomode would be if it were in VR like this. PD makes some really beautiful scenery and very derailed cars for photomode so being able to look around would be perfect. Just walking around and taking pictures of our cars. Maybe in future even add with something like forza's autovista where you can open the cars and look inside.

 

[05XR8]

I do see PD missed adding the GT Academy real life events as a separate mode. Why they didn't replicate a:

"Match Lucas Ordonez lap of" whatever track with whatever car.

Choose one of the six available GTA 370Zs and try to beat the other five cars around Silverstone.

Test your offroad skill in the buggy across a challenging mud & dirt course from GTA.

Race various GTA winner's real time "ghost" GT-Rs around Silverstone.

Follow the path of Jann Mardenborough from GTA to Le Mans.

PD could have made a dart board and picked one out of many ides from GTA but, they didn't. GTS has to be different. Not to be silly but, imagine in between driving events, we had an option to tap the square and circle button, as our avatars do running events to build stamina.

PD need to do something.

See? Perfect example. Where's this in the game?
https://www.gtplanet.net/north-amer...mann-to-participate-in-2016-nissan-micra-cup/

 

[cutmeamango]

I stand corrected:tup: I'm out of date on my research

But what you mentioned before about working inside the given specs is correct, so if T10 achieved 1080p60 for their game, they could achieve the same for VR with whatever reductions needed as long as it doesn't affect their intended design.
But since there's no planned support for VR on the XB1 and no mention yet for PC, it's hard to say other than they could meet requirements.
Apex is being marketed as a 4K game though, which is a good sign on performance.

Whilst scenes do to be drawn twice I don't believe this necessarily equates to twice the work, because the two scenes will naturally be very similar (though I'm not aware of the specific techniques used to make the process less expensive).

You are correct since there are things like texturing that only need to be done once, and objects at a distance may not depend on view position and so on. Unreal even supports instanced rendering which it only draws once (double geometry still).

But the relation I was talking about is that rendering one view at 1080p does not have the same cost as rendering two scenes inside the same 1080p image, because rendering is not about pixel filling only.

 

[GordonS]

For Gran Turismo I would prefer perfectly steady 30 FPS (alike Drive Club) over highly fluctuating ~60 FPS (alike GT5 and GT6), that running at "real" 1080p.

At least it would be more sincere. In a very large part Gran Turismo games are about the graphics, not the smooth gameplay.

Haha! Wow! 30fps locked Gran Turismo? You serious? Never going to happen fortunately.

 

[Samus]

I just wanted to go back to that subject because I was browsing YT and kinda forgot that Kaz was actually on stage in Paris and spoke via Translator San. The statements on the official websites do appear to have all come from this and interestingly first of all whilst the websites (some of them) say this:

The graphics, sound and physics engine will be the most realistic ever experienced in a driving simulator

What was actually said was:

As you'd expect with the move to PS4, the graphics, the physics engine and audio, they're all going to improve dramatically, and it's certain to be the most realistic driving simulator of all the Gran Turismo series to date.

Quite a big distinction at the end that the web guys missed out, making their claims way more bold.

Websites:

the way driving games are played will also undergo a huge revolution with “Gran Turismo SPORT”.
This is a vision that invokes the rebirth of motorsports.

Actual:

But our ambition for the first GT on PS4 is much greater than that. We want to initiate a much bigger change to the way people play driving games and that's the vision, to invoke the rebirth of motorsport.

So pretty much the same for that bit. Next up, what was said:

Within Gran Turismo Sport there is going to be two Flagship FIA championships running simultaneously throughout the year. One is the Nations Cup, in which a player will race representing his or her home country. The other is the manufacturers fan cup, in which a player will represent his or her favourite car manufacturer in the race series.

What is the most exciting for me is the series champions will be awarded their prize alongside real world motorsports champions, people like Lewis Hamilton, at the FIA Prizegiving ceremony that's hosted once a year around Christmas Time. I think this is really going to be a landmark in video game history

This part raises a very important point for me. Firstly, he says the events will run "throughout the year". The obvious question is, which year? Even if the beta released in January this year, it seems unlikely the official championships would've begun in the beta, and the full game would've been out in mid-2016 at the absolute best. Would there ever have been time to run events "throughout" 2016 and be able to crown the winner at this years FIA event in December 2016? I think it's highly unlikely.

So was he referring to 2017 all along for the full game? Was that always the plan? Certainly now it has to be, there is surely no way the winner will be crowned in December 2016? Was, erm, early 2017 the plan for the full game release? Because they're very clear in the above that after a year of events the winner will be crowned in December of that year.

Moving on, when he was asked about when you could play GTS:

So we will be starting Beta testing together with everyone of the game community starting early next year.

But note he said nothing about the full game release.

On VR:

We're of course planning to be compatible with the PSVR and through various testing that we've performed so far it looks like the experience will be something that feels very natural. I just wanted to add that Gran Turismo has continued to make history in the industry with projects like GT Academy and Vision GT and our intent is to continue this in GT Sport

So quite interesting, I don't know how many people watched the actual event and noted that. Maybe it was just me that forgot, but I found it quite interesting to re-watch and hear the real quotes. Well, translations. I don't know if @Imari has watched the video and can notice anything in Kaz's original words that Translator perhaps skipped over for brevity.



1:48:15 if the timeskip doesn't work.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

This part raises a very important point for me. Firstly, he says the events will run "throughout the year". The obvious question is, which year? Even if the beta released in January this year, it seems unlikely the official championships would've begun in the beta, and the full game would've been out in mid-2016 at the absolute best. Would there ever have been time to run events "throughout" 2016 and be able to crown the winner at this years FIA event in December 2016? I think it's highly unlikely.

So was he referring to 2017 all along for the full game? Was that always the plan? Certainly now it has to be, there is surely no way the winner will be crowned in December 2016? Was, erm, early 2017 the plan for the full game release? Because they're very clear in the above that after a year of events the winner will be crowned in December of that year.

Given the announcement said they would release the game proper in 2016 I always presumed that would mean Christmas 2016, since that's the most appropriate time of year for Sony to release a flagship title (or has been for the past two GTs at least) . And if they did release then that would also lead nicely into the "season" starting early 2017.

So I'd hazard a guess that yes, that probably always has been the plan to release at the end of the year ahead of the championships beginning next year.