Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Ridox2JZGTE]

As opposed to them having say, Watkins Glen, Circuit of the Americas, Interlagos and Macau?

It's a nice thought, but I stick with my impression that most people will get more enjoyment out of that development time being spent elsewhere. It's such a massive undertaking that has such limited applications that I really can't see it being nearly attractive enough.

Pikes Peak is marginal, which is why we haven't seen it since GT2. Isle of Man would in all likelihood be one of those tracks that most players drive once or twice and then never again. I understand that for the right people it would be incredible, but I don't think that it's flexible enough to justify the inclusion over assets that can appeal to everyone.

I just want a laser scanned IOM in a game and those tracks you mentioned too, Macau is also a must for me. I prefer street/road based track than purpose build circuit, but that's just me, I have been in street racing from the day I could drive

 

[doblocruiser]

Tokyo is long track? Isle of Man would be awesome.

A few pages back it was said that Tokyo would be around the same length as the Nordschleife.

 

[azidahaka]

What an enormous waste of time, resources, money to get IoM in a car game...

You could get imola, mugello, portimao and another couple euro tracks done for 1/10th the cost and effort.

Pd is freaking Pd.

 

[jm79]

Here is the famous Mark Higgins TT run in 2014, time at 19:15.88 with commentary by the man himself and POV, watch how fast Subaru change direction and corners, almost unreal :




Car and track overview, 264 corners, 37.7 miles, driver / team interview and some actions ( track cam, onboard cam ) :


Back in 2014, the banner was still Subaru.

Ridiculously long, beautiful scenery and absolutely terrifying.
I can see why some of you guys are saying it's a waste when you could include other proper race tracks, but bloody hell I'd like to take a rally car for a spin around there. Imagine the photo opportunities!

Also, mildly related - I wonder if there are any real-world races that happen anywhere on the full Tokyo track (if indeed it does turn out to be 20k long)...

 

[Tired Tyres]

Which has nothing at all to do with the unsuitability of IOM for racing now does it?

 

[Griffith500]

I don't understand this mentality of denying a diverse range of expression of vehicle worship in favour of a more narrowly focused one.

Sure, GT Sport is the FIA thing and it's about "racing", so the Snaefell Mountain Course isn't especially relevant in that context. But GT proper? With its heritage of rally stages (rally is racing) and the teased free roaming aspects etc.? Absolutely, bring it on! The Manx rally is actually an interesting example, including a wide range of classes of competing cars, down to historical models - very GT.


And who cares if they could make something else instead? If they made those things you're thinking of, someone else would be moaning because they didn't make something they were thinking of! If you want racing on "proper racing circuits", I think you're pretty well covered as it is.

 

[ColouredBadger]

As much as I'd love to tear around Glen Helen in all manor of cars, it only really has a place in Tourist Trophy 2.

The Ilse Of Man TT is what Nurburgring Nordschleife is to cars. It's the ultimate bike test, and should only be for bikes, as the icon that it is for riders.

 

[SimTourist]

What an enormous waste of time, resources, money to get IoM in a car game...

You could get imola, mugello, portimao and another couple euro tracks done for 1/10th the cost and effort.

Pd is freaking Pd.

I'm with you, large tracks are a huge waste of resources, for the time it would take to model IoM you could have 5 other tracks instead.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So you are just ignore this:

"A “team of programmers from Sony Computer Entertainment Europe” are reportedly on the Isle of Man, studying the famous TT Race circuit which stretches over 37.73 miles across public roads on the island.

The report comes from Bike Sports News magazine, who claims a source from the Isle of Man’s tourism department informed them that Sony are considering the track for inclusion in Gran Turismo 7 on the PlayStation 4."

Nobody is saying the track will be in the game, just considering the possibility due to small pieces of evidences.

I'm not ignoring anything just basing it on track record. Spa 24h and Nurb 24h all had those banners, and only one car raced from those ever showed up in GT. Yet people thought since PD were there at times that more would be in the games. Same thing at Pikes Peak, and how long did it take before we saw it in game? There are others, it's a mixed bag no one is saying that it wont be in game as I expressed, but at the same time one shouldn't equally be so optimistic. SCE Europe was there, but not PD? That's what confuses me a bit when they claim this through the source.

 

[Griffith500]

As much as I'd love to tear around Glen Helen in all manor of cars, it only really has a place in Tourist Trophy 2.

The Ilse Of Man TT is what Nurburgring Nordschleife is to cars. It's the ultimate bike test, and should only be for bikes, as the icon that it is for riders.

And what business does the R18 have at Brands Hatch?

Granted, it's a much closer comparison, but it's still only a difference of degree. I would not mind having the "TT circuit" in a "car game", not one bit.

Of course, bikes are all part of the plan for PD anyway, so there's little point people losing their minds about it, and they should realise the circuit is clearly going to be for the eventual TT2, whatever form it takes, and assuming they don't abandon such a mammoth task (my sympathies to Jim Pearson).


Anyway, for long tracks, it's the perfect time to bust out an improved course generator.

 

[ColouredBadger]

And what business does the R18 have at Brands Hatch?

Granted, it's a much closer comparison, but it's still only a difference of degree. I would not mind having the "TT circuit" in a "car game", not one bit.

I completely agree. P1 cars shouldn't be at Brands Hatch. It's why we (I included) have our own racing groups/forums to race cars where they should be raced, on their respected tracks with friends.

(To your second point)
And again I agree, I love long tracks. Sarthe is one of my all-time favourites. Just, the Glen Helen TT track is so iconic for motorcycle enthusiasts and bike racers, that it'd be almost an insult to some to include it in a game that has no bikes. It's like the heritage of Nordscheife being the ultimate Formula 1 (and later other disciplines) challenge that is revered by drivers. It's a car track, in the same way that the IOM TT is a bike track. I have no problems with it appearing, as I said, I'd love to race around it in any game. It just would be out of place in a Gran Turismo title.

 

[Dionisiy]

 

[Mike_grpA]

Just, the Glen Helen TT track is so iconic for motorcycle enthusiasts and bike racers, that it'd be almost an insult to some to include it in a game that has no bikes.

Anyone who gets insulted by a videogame developer including the TT course in a car racing game needs to get out more

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ridiculously long, beautiful scenery and absolutely terrifying.
I can see why some of you guys are saying it's a waste when you could include other proper race tracks, but bloody hell I'd like to take a rally car for a spin around there. Imagine the photo opportunities!

Also, mildly related - I wonder if there are any real-world races that happen anywhere on the full Tokyo track (if indeed it does turn out to be 20k long)...

Tokyo highway battle has been there for years, since the 80's I recalled, street racing.

 

[Tenacious D]

Yeah like, eriosuly, half of the tracks depicted in this picture are infinitely more worthy than the Isle of Man TT (piccie snip)

And let's be serious here: tracks like Avus, Pikes Peak and many others would be a total blast to play on GT.

As much as I'd wiggle for IoM, more tracks are definitely in order for Gran Turismo than one massive limited purpose course, awesome as it is. Some people don't even like The Ring. And for sure, I'm famished to have not only several more - dozens - new real world race locations, but all the legacy tracks from the GT library. Let's get past the hue and cry for Seattle to Red Rock Valley, El Capitain, Grindelwald, Citta di Aria, Costa di Amalfi, Swiss Alps, Tahiti Maze... Gran Turismo has a rich legacy of fantasy race locations. They should all return.

Or they could make a bike game again. That'd be nice.

Yeah... but considering how people derided GT6 for supposedly selling just a couple million and calling that a dud, how do they feel about the original Tourist Trophy selling approximately one-third that? I really hope TT2 gets pushed off into the GT7 DLC period. While a number of people loved TT, the world is waiting for GT7, and TT2 might not break even.

For Polyphony to announce 2 Gran Turismos at one event, would be like Trump acting presidential.

For real.

Kaz, you now know that you MUST DO THIS to save the world!

But seriously, I'm wanting a nice big GT7, and putting it off till at least holidays 2018 means two years plus more work on it, and more sales of Sport to fund it.

 

[Dionisiy]

http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331798194455/gran-turismo-sport-ps4-interview

 

[Griffith500]

I completely agree. P1 cars shouldn't be at Brands Hatch. It's why we (I included) have our own racing groups/forums to race cars where they should be raced, on their respected tracks with friends.

Absolutely, to each his own, it's certainly a valid use of the game to extract enjoyment - in fact any use that creates enjoyment is equally valid, being careful not to fall into a moral blackhole...

I personally think it's fun to use a virtual space to try stuff out that the real world is too scared to look stupid doing!

And again I agree, I love long tracks. Sarthe is one of my all-time favourites. Just, the Glen Helen TT track is so iconic for motorcycle enthusiasts and bike racers, that it'd be almost an insult to some to include it in a game that has no bikes. It's like the heritage of Nordscheife being the ultimate Formula 1 (and later other disciplines) challenge that is revered by drivers. It's a car track, in the same way that the IOM TT is a bike track. I have no problems with it appearing, as I said, I'd love to race around it in any game. It just would be out of place in a Gran Turismo title.

The Nordschleife is by no means "a car track". The first race held at the Nordschleife was a motorbike race, and bikers make a pilgrimage there every year just the same as they do the TT.

It was born for a number of reasons, chiefly for its role as a testing circuit for motorsports (racing on public roads was declining in favour), and the tourism was planned in from the start, too. It's only by miracle that it's still "relevant", really, and it's also far too long, taking the place of perhaps two or three "more deserving" circuits.

What about the Dundrod Circuit (Ulster TT)? That's a smaller circuit with some of the character of the IOM TT, and a similar mixed history of two and four wheel racing. EDIT: And three...

Targa Florio?
I'd so love the next GT to include some way of recreating (at least part of) those epic races across entire countries from the early years.

Dakar? All totally relevant to GT. But maybe not Sport.

...
I really hope TT2 gets pushed off into the GT7 DLC period.
...

I personally believe this is the plan, and it is probably the most sensible thing to do in terms of development cost, if that should be an issue.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

They could attach all those tracks together with interconnecting roads and call it GT Horizon.

I cannot tell you how long I've dreamed of a game like that. Have all the tracks in the world, and you can drive to each one of them from your central garage, or connect all of them with fictional roads and make the Ultimate World Circuit

As opposed to them having say, Watkins Glen, Circuit of the Americas, Interlagos and Macau?

It's a nice thought, but I stick with my impression that most people will get more enjoyment out of that development time being spent elsewhere. It's such a massive undertaking that has such limited applications that I really can't see it being nearly attractive enough.

Pikes Peak is marginal, which is why we haven't seen it since GT2. Isle of Man would in all likelihood be one of those tracks that most players drive once or twice and then never again. I understand that for the right people it would be incredible, but I don't think that it's flexible enough to justify the inclusion over assets that can appeal to everyone.

It would be a stupid waste of time/money/effort to make an IOM course, but at the same time, if PD nails the track surface and scenery (laser scanned everything) it would be the world's first perfect virtual recreation of the IOM track. Back before GT4 was released the Nurburgring was just a blip in most people's minds. GT4 was the first realistic rendition of the track IIRC (GPL had the old Nordschleife but it wasn't very accurate) and it helped popularize the track and puts GT as the premier driving game. IOM might not be popular enough now, but if it's in GT, just watch the popularity explode.

We all know how PD has languished behind in the PS3 generation. We also know they will never be the best at anything anymore (not physics, not graphics, not sounds, not car list, etc). Nor will they be the all rounder dev of years gone by. What they still have is bucket loads of money, and the audacity to do crazy unthinkable things compared to other developers (e.g. GT Academy, Vision GT, FIA partnership, driving on the Moon, etc). Creating an IOM course is stupid, but it will be one hell of an achievement that might just justify the continued existence of GT. A weird, idiosyncratic game that is stuck in the past but every once in a while, just completely blows your mind.

Plus it will be a great asset if they do decide to revive Tourist Trophy.

Also, mildly related - I wonder if there are any real-world races that happen anywhere on the full Tokyo track (if indeed it does turn out to be 20k long)...

The real C1 loop in Japan is 14.3 km long (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Circular_Route_(Shuto_Expressway)). Obviously it's not a racetrack, but that doesn't stop people from street racing back in the 90s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid_Night_Club).

I will be really surprised if the Tokyo track that we've been shown isn't the full one. It doesn't look like it has any closed off barriers that might lead to other roads, and the shape of the map doesn't correspond to any part of the real C1. Basically it just looks like a shortened, fictionalised Japanese highway route. Pretty much a SSR5/7/11 in daylight.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Oh sod the fact it doesn't fit with the theme of GTS, the TT track would be such an epic achievement I couldn't give a damn. For me that would at least rival and probably surpass the excitement and wonderment of taking the Nordschliefe on for the time in GT4.

I don't care if we can only race pigeons on it - if PD actually have managed to make it in full then I want it in there. I highly doubt they have though.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I don't doubt PD's ability to put IOM in the game. After all we are talking about the same company that added the Redbull car, the VGT's and driving on the moon. I just doubt the judgement of whoever thought all that was a good idea in a game with"real driving simulator" written on the box.

It is very silly not to concentrate on the core assets of the game instead.

 

[doblocruiser]

I will be really surprised if the Tokyo track that we've been shown isn't the full one. It doesn't look like it has any closed off barriers that might lead to other roads

It does After start/finish the road to the right is blocked and before start finish the road on the left blocked and it seems to come out of a lower part while the right one moves up.

 

[Griffith500]

I don't doubt PD's ability to put IOM in the game. After all we are talking about the same company that added the Redbull car, the VGT's and driving on the moon. I just doubt the judgement of whoever thought all that was a good idea in a game with"real driving simulator" written on the box.

It is very silly not to concentrate on the core assets of the game instead.

The problem is projecting your own personal idea of the "core" of the game onto something which is its own idea.

For me, all that silly stuff on the side is a core part of what makes GT GT, for better or for worse. Wishing it were something else is fine (and we all do that), but making definitive claims as to what should and shouldn't be in the game is pure self-delusion.


Now you can argue that, for a certain purpose, a given mote of content is more or less suited, but that's far from the same thing. And you'd need everyone to agree on what GT's purpose actually is.

 

[azidahaka]

I don't understand this mentality of denying a diverse range of expression of vehicle worship in favour of a more narrowly focused one.

Sure, GT Sport is the FIA thing and it's about "racing", so the Snaefell Mountain Course isn't especially relevant in that context. But GT proper? With its heritage of rally stages (rally is racing) and the teased free roaming aspects etc.? Absolutely, bring it on! The Manx rally is actually an interesting example, including a wide range of classes of competing cars, down to historical models - very GT.


And who cares if they could make something else instead? If they made those things you're thinking of, someone else would be moaning because they didn't make something they were thinking of! If you want racing on "proper racing circuits", I think you're pretty well covered as it is.

We have way to few proper racing circuits... If there's the need from some users for cruising circuits "sierra" style, just make a fictional one that won't cost a GAZILLION of $$$, hours and manpower to realize it.

On PCars the least used track were widely those that were demanded by cruisers like the p2p ones.

As much as I'd wiggle for IoM, more tracks are definitely in order for Gran Turismo than one massive limited purpose course, awesome as it is. Some people don't even like The Ring. And for sure, I'm famished to have not only several more - dozens - new real world race locations, but all the legacy tracks from the GT library. Let's get past the hue and cry for Seattle to Red Rock Valley, El Capitain, Grindelwald, Citta di Aria, Costa di Amalfi, Swiss Alps, Tahiti Maze... Gran Turismo has a rich legacy of fantasy race locations. They should all return.


Yeah... but considering how people derided GT6 for supposedly selling just a couple million and calling that a dud, how do they feel about the original Tourist Trophy selling approximately one-third that? I really hope TT2 gets pushed off into the GT7 DLC period. While a number of people loved TT, the world is waiting for GT7, and TT2 might not break even.


For real.

Kaz, you now know that you MUST DO THIS to save the world!

But seriously, I'm wanting a nice big GT7, and putting it off till at least holidays 2018 means two years plus more work on it, and more sales of Sport to fund it.

GT7 will be ages away if they spend their time and workforce like this; i mean there's so many missing racetracks that are a MUST and so MANY current tracks that are very sub-par or outdated before even thinking of IoM...

I would prefer a finally up to date Trial Mountain to it and the extra time and resources could be used in 100000 better ways.

Sure i guess marketing would flourish with IoM "first ever to laser scan it" and such PR stunts, but it's really not what the dedicated fans and players need, or what the franchise itself would benefit from.

 

[syntex123]

Why do we? Given the huge size of the TT track and how long it will take to model I'd much rather have 3/4 normal sized tracks. TT isn't even well-known as a car track.

I don't know.
💡 Because endurances on short tracks tend to be boring after a few hours if you get an early lead. That's why I want at least five long ones. The old Spa Francorchamps too, but maybe save it for GT7.

 

[Imari]

It would be a stupid waste of time/money/effort to make an IOM course, but at the same time, if PD nails the track surface and scenery (laser scanned everything) it would be the world's first perfect virtual recreation of the IOM track. Back before GT4 was released the Nurburgring was just a blip in most people's minds. GT4 was the first realistic rendition of the track IIRC (GPL had the old Nordschleife but it wasn't very accurate) and it helped popularize the track and puts GT as the premier driving game. IOM might not be popular enough now, but if it's in GT, just watch the popularity explode.

We all know how PD has languished behind in the PS3 generation. We also know they will never be the best at anything anymore (not physics, not graphics, not sounds, not car list, etc). Nor will they be the all rounder dev of years gone by. What they still have is bucket loads of money, and the audacity to do crazy unthinkable things compared to other developers (e.g. GT Academy, Vision GT, FIA partnership, driving on the Moon, etc). Creating an IOM course is stupid, but it will be one hell of an achievement that might just justify the continued existence of GT. A weird, idiosyncratic game that is stuck in the past but every once in a while, just completely blows your mind.

Plus it will be a great asset if they do decide to revive Tourist Trophy.

I do see where you're going with this, but it's been my opinion for a while that Gran Turismo could do with a few less wild swings to try and hit it out of the park and a few more solid, easy bunts.

Perhaps having so much money they don't really consider how it might best be used. When you're on a tight budget it really makes you evaluate the necessity and value of every part of a project.

 

[doblocruiser]

If IoM makes it in it probably would explain why the game is rather low on content compared to other full GT releases. To recreate this track with all details included. Who else would be crazy enough (and have resources) to pull this off?

 

[Streeto]

View attachment 555484 View attachment 555485

It does After start/finish the road to the right is blocked and before start finish the road on the left blocked and it seems to come out of a lower part while the right one moves up.

That could be just aesthetics, there's tracks like SSR5/7 that have blocked turn-offs with no alternative track variation.

Why would they just showcase the small version?

Edit: Have we seen the (hopefully) improved headlight projection at night yet?

 

[jpbonadio]

Interesting info from the RedBull article regarding the Scapes:

It’s a little bit like Photoshop, but smarter,” explains Yamauchi. “Every picture contains spatial and light information, so whenever you move a car around in the environment, all shadows are adjusted in real-time. And what’s probably my favourite, you can actually let the car drive. Like you can let it pass the Royal Palace of Tokyo or the Guggenheim Museum in New York and it looks like a real shot.

So we were right, the track load screen is probably a Scape from the 3d track. That's why it loads so fast. Very interesting technology.

I wonder if they are going to implement some way to use the scapes not only to take pictures, but to see the car moving there too, like some sort of garage?

 

[TayeezSA]

This mix needs to play when you go back in time to do a some old races then it will sound like a Best Motoring episode.



Imagine the first song, Calsonic R32 GTR at old skool Fuji Speedway

Also, what's IoM? I haven't been up to speed with this thread

 

[Tired Tyres]

The problem is projecting your own personal idea of the "core" of the game onto something which is its own idea.

For me, all that silly stuff on the side is a core part of what makes GT GT, for better or for worse. Wishing it were something else is fine (and we all do that), but making definitive claims as to what should and shouldn't be in the game is pure self-delusion.


Now you can argue that, for a certain purpose, a given mote of content is more or less suited, but that's far from the same thing. And you'd need everyone to agree on what GT's purpose actually is.

Where do I say what a core element is? I don't for the perfectly valid understanding that it will be different for different people.

The problem is projecting your own personal idea of the "core" of the game onto something which is its own idea.

For me, all that silly stuff on the side is a core part of what makes GT GT, for better or for worse. Wishing it were something else is fine (and we all do that), but making definitive claims as to what should and shouldn't be in the game is pure self-delusion.


Now you can argue that, for a certain purpose, a given mote of content is more or less suited, but that's far from the same thing. And you'd need everyone to agree on what GT's purpose actually is.

What definitive anything at all did I claim was core? I am perfectly well aware that GT means different things for different people. What you like about what I think is silly doesn't make me right anymore than it would makes you wrong. I was in fact just pointing out that PD is capable of putting IOM in GT7 for the reasons I mentioned.