Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Coiler]

Those are all CAD alike 3D models you can always convert and adjust if needed. Dont believe some PR BS. The next big story will be why Porsche isnt in this time.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

The list you linked to is out of date. Around 100 unique cars at launch and 11 or 12 laser scanned tracks is the target at launch and they are almost there now. AC's content is built up over 3 years just as GTSport's content is built up over 3 years with a much, much, much larger team.

It's just missing the latest Japanese Pack (give or take 5-6 cars), so it's not wholly inaccurate. If you count every variant and every step model it's 96 on that list. Now personally I'm going to combine all the similars (e.g. Alfa QV, Evora, Exige, Huracan ST, M4) into one, and I don't count step variants as separate, and it's around 60-70 there. Around half of GTS roster if PD is to be believed (though I suspect they have lots of dupes as well). Comparing it to the whole roster of premium + super premiums, there is no comparison.

Tracks I counted 15 unique, excluding Drift & Drag strip, so I concede my point 👍;

First of all I'm confused by the bold. How is that different if they've both done it over 3 years?

It's not 140 unique cars in GTS either. Yes when it comes to their performance you wouldn't count a road
Evo and a race Evo as the same car but when it comes to modelling obviously it is far, far quicker to modify one model into another than create another totally unique one from scratch.

We'll have to wait and see for the final list to see how many unique cars there are from a modelling perspective. So far of the 73 models seen I would count 53 as being a unique 3D model.

Ah brainfreeze moment there I meant to say Kunos has been working on AC since their previous game (Ferrari Virtual Academy) launched in 2010. So it's 6 years for Kunos, compared to 3 for PD for roughly the same content. Still pretty damn good for a team of 20 odd people.

I agree as well that the true count for GTS is potentially much lower because of all the race car variants.

Anyway, you two, my original post was probably lost in translation. It's no big deal. My original thought was PD could create 200 or so new cars and 5 or so new tracks between GT5 and GT6 (3 years), while Kunos could manage 100 cars and 10 tracks in 6 years. But because PD decides to start over with super premiums in GTS this whole discussion is moot.

Over & out.

 

[RACECAR]

I agree as well that the true count for GTS is potentially much lower because of all the race car variants.

To be fair though, the car count doesn't need to be that huge, especially for a game like this. I'd be surprised if it wasn't for GT7.

Those are all CAD alike 3D models you can always convert and adjust if needed. Dont believe some PR BS. The next big story will be why Porsche isnt in this time.

And you know this based on what exactly? Don't think PS3 assets work like that.

Also, you honestly think PD has that much time to get Porsche in GT Sport?

 

[Coiler]

To be fair though, the car count doesn't need to be that huge, especially for a game like this. I'd be surprised if it wasn't for GT7.




And you know this based on what exactly? Don't think PS3 assets work like that.

Also, you honestly think PD has that much time to get Porsche in GT Sport?

Based on every pc racing game, and modeling programs seen in several PD office tours.
What has time to do with it? Its just about $$$.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The whole basis of this game was to create a fresh platform which PD would continually improve on over time. If GT7 is indeed being worked on, it will most definitely be created upon the foundations of GT Sport. Which bodes well for the future of the series IMO. The GT5/6 platform is quite dated now and of no use whatsoever moving forward.

 

[RACECAR]

Based on every pc racing game, and modeling programs seen in several PD office tours.

Yet you seem to have forgotten as noted multiple times, PD aren't most studios (which in certain aspects, tend to be one of their biggest flaws). Also, pretty sure PS3 assets won't work like that for the PS4.

What has time to do with it? Its just about $$$.

The fact that its only now been made clear that EA's multi-platform stranglehold (which has prevented even PC devs from getting official licenses) appears to finally loosening up (at least enough for someone other then Turn 10 like Kunos to get it) seems to suggest it pretty much will be about time. Again, you actually think that PD can just slap Porsche in with this much time before release? You can throw all your money like you do at a stripper all day long, but you aren't gonna change time. At best, DLC is your best bet otherwise you and everyone else having this unrealistic demand are setting yourselves up for Disappointment, which then again is all people are about as of late.

 

[Ameer67]

The GT5/6 platform is quite dated now and of no use whatsoever moving forward.

Are you talking in terms of gameplay or the game engine?

 

[ScottPuss20]

Are you talking in terms of gameplay or the game engine?

Both

 

[Samus]

Wait, people don't actually believe the PR that GTS was started from scratch for everything do they? Because that is obviously not true, nobody throws away everything to start again in software development.

 

[Ameer67]

Both

Both? Alright then. I agree with you on the gameplay side that the GT5/6 play style is getting dated, no doubt. But the game engine itself, I don't agree. I remember back when GT6 was being developed Kaz was saying how they're using GT6 as a base/modular platform for future games.

 

[chengman]

I hope Kaz looks at this thread every night before he goes to sleep and laughs at this.

 

[nasanu]

I think that is a major problem in Polyphony's marketing, and will hurt the game, if tracks are appearing after the announcement of the game. It is because people made their minds up after the presentation of Gran Turismo Sport.

The reality is that those who watched the stream make only a tiny fraction of the market GT is selling to. It really doesn't matter what those who went to or watched the early events think.

A larger impact is had by major website coverage but those websites are publishing new stories as the game progresses and then finally will do reviews. The coverage now is only for nerds to fight over, it has little more impact than that.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Both? Alright then. I agree with you on the gameplay side that the GT5/6 play style is getting dated, no doubt. But the game engine itself, I don't agree. I remember back when GT6 was being developed Kaz was saying how they're using GT6 as a base/modular platform for future games.

I think that claim has been thrown out the window, because the PS4 is a "blank canvas"

 

[Ameer67]

I think that claim has been thrown out the window, because the PS4 is a "blank canvas"

I would say that the "blank canvas" quote is about the endless possibilities with the PS4 rather than Polyphony actually starting from scratch.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I would say that the "blank canvas" quote is about the endless possibilities with the PS4 rather than Polyphony actually starting from scratch.

No, it's what Kaz said. He also said that working on GT Sport is bit like working on GT1.

 

[Ameer67]

it's what Kaz said.

When/where?

 

[nasanu]

It's not 140 unique cars in GTS either. Yes when it comes to their performance you wouldn't count a road
Evo and a race Evo as the same car but when it comes to modelling obviously it is far, far quicker to modify one model into another than create another totally unique one from scratch.

And you know what is even quicker? Just using the off the shelf manufacturer data as Kunos has said they do. Most cars aren't Kunos models. AC is brilliant, but Kunos gets far too much credit. They have been smart with their development practices using off the shelf solutions where possible, but that doesn't make them miracle super developers.

 

[ScottPuss20]

When/where?

Probably in an interview or something. I don't have links ready to verify each and every claim.

 

[Samus]

I think that claim has been thrown out the window, because the PS4 is a "blank canvas"

Do you honestly think they turned up at the studio one day and started working on Gran Turismo Sport, totally from scratch? Not one line of code, no 3D assets, nothing? Everyone sat at their desk with a 'blank canvas' in front of them?

Certain smaller aspects may have been started again and we know the car models were but you don't restart the whole thing and throw away years of legacy code and assets for no apparent reason, that'd be lunacy.

And you know what is even quicker? Just using the off the shelf manufacturer data as Kunos has said they do. Most cars aren't Kunos models. AC is brilliant, but Kunos gets far too much credit. They have been smart with their development practices using off the shelf solutions where possible, but that doesn't make them miracle super developers.

I don't play the game or pay much attention to it so can you explain what you mean? It was my understanding 3D CAD data would be pretty useless for in-game 3D models because they're far too detailed. They can start with the basic mesh which obviously speeds things up (and I'm sure PD do this as well) but I thought they still had to actually model the parts themselves, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[chengman]

Probably in an interview or something. I don't have links ready to verify each and every claim.

If you don't have the evidence to back up your statements, then don't make the statements. Otherwise I would go on Buzzfeed for my daily news on mens rights.

 

[nasanu]

I don't play the game or pay much attention to it so can you explain what you mean? It was my understanding 3D CAD data would be pretty useless for in-game 3D models because they're far too detailed. They can start with the basic mesh which obviously speeds things up (and I'm sure PD do this as well) but I thought they still had to actually model the parts themselves, maybe I'm wrong.

I am just going off what... Can't remember his name now but the studio head said. He didn't mention specifics just that they use "manufacturer data". He also hinted that for at least some cars they don't physically see or test them. But hey, it seems to work.

EDIT:

Found this:

"For new cars we usually get the original CAD files of the car from the manufacturer. For older cars it becomes trickier because sometimes they don't even have blueprints anymore, so you need to work with pictures."

http://www.redbull.com/us/en/games/stories/1331796496220/assetto-corsa-on-ps4-and-xbox-one-interview

 

[ScottPuss20]

Do you honestly think they turned up at the studio one day and started working on Gran Turismo Sport, totally from scratch? Not one line of code, no 3D assets, nothing? Everyone sat at their desk with a 'blank canvas' in front of them?

Certain smaller aspects may have been started again and we know the car models were but you don't restart the whole thing and throw away years of legacy code and assets for no apparent reason, that'd be lunacy.

I don't think that at all. I'm saying that most of the old assets would not have a place in GT Sport, so it's like starting from blank canvas, but not exactly. I'm not suggesting that every asset was thrown out.

 

[Samus]

I am just going off what... Can't remember his name now but the studio head said. He didn't mention specifics just that they use "manufacturer data". He also hinted that for at least some cars they don't physically see or test them. But hey, it seems to work.

Yeah ok so I'm pretty sure he just means they use the 3D CAD model as a starting point for their own model. SMS did the same thing with a lot of their models, and I'm pretty sure PD will do the same thing. It obviously saves time but yeah, not something that will be unique to them.

 

[Ameer67]

Probably in an interview or something. I don't have links ready to verify each and every claim.

I keep track of Kaz's interviews closely actually and I don't ever recall him saying that.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I keep track of Kaz's interviews closely actually and I don't ever recall him saying that.

Oh well, it looks as though my claim is invalid. I give up.

 

[7HO]

Those are all CAD alike 3D models you can always convert and adjust if needed. Dont believe some PR BS. The next big story will be why Porsche isnt in this time.

That's hilarious and in you following posts you have clearly demonstrated you don't know what goes into development. I don't either apart from what I've seen in development videos and read on the internet. But I've seen enough in those videos to know that what you are claiming isn't accurate.

Now to keep it real, even Kaz has said they haven't actually dumped anything and there is still information or work they can use from that old stuff, it isn't a complete start from scratch process where they need to gather all the information again as that information doesn't suddenly become inaccurate over time. Clearly you can see in the photos these cars are not enhanced old cars and they are actually different cars, I don't know why anyone wouldn't believe they have been built again so if there is a reason put forth for why they had to do that I'm not sure why you wouldn't believe it and call it marketing speak. They wouldn't have wasted time rebuilding stuff for fun if it wasn't necessary but from my limited understanding it has something to do with VR.

Do you actually doubt they have a new lighting model? I don't from the videos I have seen and it actually looks fantastic. Do you know how their new lighting model works? Do you know how they modelled and built the cars this time? Do you actually know if they have or haven't used a different process from the past? Do you know how and where they improved physics? Do you know if they had to significantly alter these? Do you know anything about the damage model they have talked about? Do you know how they calculate collisions or how they build the frame for the car? For example iRacing recently detailed how they have changed the frame that collisions are calculated with from circles to triangles but I guess that was just marketing speak as well. I guess when iRacing talk about the issues they are having adding new features because they are trying to put them on 10 year old technology that isn't compatible they are also just making excuses and using marketing speak and all companies just lie to us because what they actually do is just wave their magic developer wand ove the old release and it updates it with the new features we all want and they play games and go on holiday for 6 months or a few years before they release it. I guess you wouldn't believe any of the reasons that iRacing have given for still working on features they said they thought themselves they would have finished 3 years ago but turned out to be much more complicated than they had imagined.

I don't think you can answer these questions, I think you have seen a 3D render at some time and just concluded that is the entire process of building a sim car.

 

[Tenacious D]

The rest of my post should've cleared that up: RUF can only cover a tiny, mostly 911-shaped portion of Porsche's vast motorsport history, and that's even accounting for GT Sport's large amount of PD-designed substitutes. Go on, head over to the official site, and tell me how well that covers Porsche's motorsport pedigree.

Well, Slip, mind telling me how you reacted to the non-presence of Porsche in other racing games, while they included those...? I couldn't hazard a guess what you think of RUF. So when these racing games have RUF instead, do you refuse to drive them? Go on their boards to ask why they wasted their time with cheap substitutes? How many games are there now?

• Forza
• Project CARS
• Assetto Corsa
• RaceRoom
• And of course Gran Turismo

Now look. If we can't have Porsches, just what do you want? Nothing?

I appreciate being able to race something. What you think on this matter, I frankly don't care because it's pretty clear that you're going to be antagonistic, and might even twist it into me saying that no racing game should ever worry about paying the potentially exorbitant licensing fees to have Porsches in their games when we have this wonderful alternative. This is a senseless argument, but it's what I've come to expect from certain members around here.

 

[05XR8]

Is it that Kaz said the GT6 are easier to direct port or is the "future proof"-ing, of those GT6 models, a guide to build the cars in GTS "from scratch"? I thought Kaz made me tion of that. He did mention it would be easy to build the cars on PS4.

 

[syntex123]

Well, I don't have as much that you had, but what I want to say is supposed to be some people have slow internet connection and waiting for the images to load is taking quite long though

I will quote one of you, the rest of you - read this and understand. Apologize to @jpbonadio and let him continue post his gifs. They're awesome. As you guys said, it slows down the page some times. Nothing do do with internet speed etc, just because it gets too heavy on the page.

Spoiler: But! Read this

But if he posts the gifs in a spoiler, then it gets on demand like some of you mentioned. Then those of you who don't want them don't get them, and those that do want them, like me, get them.

Problem solved. @jpbonadio. Keep doing what you do man. I support you.

 

[Samus]

I will quote one of you, the rest of you - read this and understand. Apologize to @jpbonadio and let him continue post his gifs. They're awesome. As you guys said, it slows down the page some times. Nothing do do with internet speed etc, just because it gets too heavy on the page.

Spoiler: But! Read this

But if he posts the gifs in a spoiler, then it gets on demand like some of you mentioned. Then those of you who don't want them don't get them, and those that do want them, like me, get them.

Problem solved. @jpbonadio. Keep doing what you do man. I support you.

This is a discussion thread. For discussion. Obviously the odd GIF, image or video is going to be posted but it does not need several GIFs that add nothing to the conversations taking place. There is a thread to dump those just to look at, as already stated.