Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Coiler]

That's hilarious and in you following posts you have clearly demonstrated you don't know what goes into development. I don't either apart from what I've seen in development videos and read on the internet. But I've seen enough in those videos to know that what you are claiming isn't accurate.

Now to keep it real, even Kaz has said they haven't actually dumped anything and there is still information or work they can use from that old stuff, it isn't a complete start from scratch process where they need to gather all the information again as that information doesn't suddenly become inaccurate over time. Clearly you can see in the photos these cars are not enhanced old cars and they are actually different cars, I don't know why anyone wouldn't believe they have been built again so if there is a reason put forth for why they had to do that I'm not sure why you wouldn't believe it and call it marketing speak. They wouldn't have wasted time rebuilding stuff for fun if it wasn't necessary but from my limited understanding it has something to do with VR.

Do you actually doubt they have a new lighting model? I don't from the videos I have seen and it actually looks fantastic. Do you know how their new lighting model works? Do you know how they modelled and built the cars this time? Do you actually know if they have or haven't used a different process from the past? Do you know how and where they improved physics? Do you know if they had to significantly alter these? Do you know anything about the damage model they have talked about? Do you know how they calculate collisions or how they build the frame for the car? For example iRacing recently detailed how they have changed the frame that collisions are calculated with from circles to triangles but I guess that was just marketing speak as well. I guess when iRacing talk about the issues they are having adding new features because they are trying to put them on 10 year old technology that isn't compatible they are also just making excuses and using marketing speak and all companies just lie to us because what they actually do is just wave their magic developer wand ove the old release and it updates it with the new features we all want and they play games and go on holiday for 6 months or a few years before they release it. I guess you wouldn't believe any of the reasons that iRacing have given for still working on features they said they thought themselves they would have finished 3 years ago but turned out to be much more complicated than they had imagined.

I don't think you can answer these questions, I think you have seen a 3D render at some time and just concluded that is the entire process of building a sim car.

In your words PD is reinventing the wheel, dont tell me that after PS2 era models in GT5-6 there is no way just to import less detailed models. Even the basic modeling software can imoprt several diferent formats and they can afford to have special tools just for that.

 

[bremics]

These boards are full of people adopting a "wait and see" attitude towards buying GTS so apparently it is possible to change your mind post announcement. In case you need further proof, here's 94 people that might change their minds regarding purchasing GTS, all of whom already own a PS4.

On a site called GTPlanet.

Other than "it looks good as usual", I haven't heard anything nice about it on other forums I go to.

Also, where was that post a few pages ago that mentioned that they were using an earlier build at the first couple(?) events because the newer ones run at 43(47?)-60 FPS?

So the more the complete the tracks the poorer they run?

And I'm still confused by the focus on "scapes" on a ESports title. Reminds me of the moon on GT6, that's nice but where is [damage/sound update/track maker/etc].

 

[Tenacious D]

For a less politically charged post...

On building GT Sport engine and assets from scratch, I wouldn't disagree with Kaz. On the engine, remember that the PS3 was a quite difficult architecture to program for, thanks to the unique connections between Cell, the six co-processors, GPU and divided ram. This required some extremely tight traffic management to handle the shuffling of data around the system. On top of that, the instruction set in Cell is probably its own creature too. This made PS3 a difficult beast to master. All the developers were mostly polite and glowing about how powerful the system was, so it's telling that Kazunori, the vice-president of SCE himself finally stated when PS3 was being put to pasture, the PS3 was something of a nightmare to program for at times.

PS4 is like a 128 lane superhighway in comparison, with a traditional x86 CPU and the well known PC-like architecture. Given the much simpler architecture and familiar instruction sets in PS4, I wouldn't be surprised if PD took the mindset used to build the GT6 engine and in much less time, coded a new engine to take advantage of the capacity of the new hardware directly.

Now for the cars, I'll have to defer to those who mentioned them before, but a few cogent posters here discussed the potential of damage modeling and how the requirements might require different modeling tech. It has been weeks ago so no telling where those posts are. But on top of that possibility, the modeling is definitely of a higher caliber. Gaming journos have remarked on how amazing the models look, particularly the interiors, and a few posters have made comparisons with the same models in Sport and previous GTs. I've also noticed that there are hints of some imperfections in the car models which add a touch of reality to them. Seams in body panels have a bit more curve to them.

It is really making for a long wait. I'm quite anxious to get my hands on the finished product.

 

[jm79]

Now for the cars, I'll have to defer to those who mentioned them before, but a few cogent posters here discussed the potential of damage modeling and how the requirements might require different modeling tech. It has been weeks ago so no telling where those posts are. But on top of that possibility, the modeling is definitely of a higher caliber. Gaming journos have remarked on how amazing the models look, particularly the interiors, and a few posters have made comparisons with the same models in Sport and previous GTs. I've also noticed that there are hints of some imperfections in the car models which add a touch of reality to them. Seams in body panels have a bit more curve to them.

Now wouldn't that be amazing.

Our cars took ages to make because, look, they smash into a million pieces realistically!

We can dream

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I'm happy to back-up @CLowndes888 with what he was saying.
And the issue with supplying a 'source' is the fact that the majority of footage has since been removed.

When I posted on the PlayStation forum regarding the London event I used the presentation as the base of my post.
Almost everything I wrote was straight from that video.

I said
"All the cars have been remodelled from scratch from GT6."
And
"All of these tracks have been rebuilt to match the performance of the PS4."

I can almost guarantee that these words were used in the presentation as I'm very careful what I post there.

You can still find clips from E3 saying a track has been "completely rebuilt."
The website says the Nurburgring "has been recreated using the latest technology."

This sort of language has been quite common.

How you interpret that is up to you.

 

[dacc10]

On a site called GTPlanet.

Other than "it looks good as usual", I haven't heard anything nice about it on other forums I go to.

Also, where was that post a few pages ago that mentioned that they were using an earlier build at the first couple(?) events because the newer ones run at 43(47?)-60 FPS?

So the more the complete the tracks the poorer they run?

And I'm still confused by the focus on "scapes" on a ESports title. Reminds me of the moon on GT6, that's nice but where is [damage/sound update/track maker/etc].

Which forums are those? Forza? Driveclub? Gaming forums in general? You know that GTPlanet is probably one of the most impartial game forums that you will find. And even here you will see some "hate" here and there, but most of the time it's reasonable. I'm imagining as usual people on the other forums complaining about games and their gameplay off Youtube videos lol.

In those forums did anyone play the game yet? Did anyone see the game either live or from a direct feed uncompressed video? Do they even know what to look at other than graphics?

About the builds they've been using, they simply use the ones that were tweaked and stable for the events. The game is probably getting tweaked as soon as they add new stuff, either being track details, new textures, whatever. The copper box build was completely different than the build at E3, it was more detailed and stable than before, and yet it had more details on the tracks. So, everytime they complete a tracks, they tweak the performance.

Keep in mind that the Scapes and the photomode in general, aren't worked on by the sound or physics engineers. It's probably a separate division dedicated just to do that. And, if this game didn't have much more than just an eSports focus, it would have a hard time selling. And other thing, some people even have doubts about the game because of that focus on eSports, fearing that there won't be much more to the game other than that.

 

[Tornado]

That's hilarious and in you following posts you have clearly demonstrated you don't know what goes into development. I don't either apart from what I've seen in development videos and read on the internet. But I've seen enough in those videos to know that what you are claiming isn't accurate.

And I think it's hilarious that you think art assets for a videogame are technically incapable of being used by anything but the original video game they were designed for, even by the developer who made them; and once again for no other reason than because you read some PR statement to that effect.

 

[7HO]

And I think it's hilarious that you think art assets for a videogame are technically incapable of being used by anything but the original video game they were designed for, even by the developer who made them; and once again for no other reason than because you read some PR statement to that effect.

You think something you imagined I said is hilarious, that is hilarious. The problem clearly is people have no idea what they are talking about and would just like to imagine how things are rather than believe the developer could actually be telling it straight. But I'm sure it makes much more sense that they are lying.

 

[Cocomoto]

I remember the new Call of Duty: Infinity Warfare been the most "desliked" video on Youtube, but still, the game still got a HUGE amount of pre-orders...

Even here, on GTplanet, a site/forum focused on Gran Turismo games, got a lot of hate from nowhere, imagine on others sites. PD/Gran Turismo have been beated for all the reasons you can imagine.

If the standard cars are on the game "Oh my Gosh, how they still using this old PS2 models yet?", if they made a new game from everything new "The car and track count is so little!".

There was a guy here that even told that PD choosed the easy way on Nordschleife, using the old assest, and that they could at least remake the paints on the track, one post later and he was proved totally wrong as PD done what he said.

So people on the internet always complaing, even if they don't have reason to do so. If i do like a game, i won't go to their site or related news on game sites to talk **** about it.

GTP even has a whining and crying thread. So yes, GTP can be called as a impartial gamming site

 

[Dionisiy]

EDIT

 

[scholesy1899]

Can't see it.

 

[Aphelion]

Looks like the link is broken.

 

[Johnnypenso]

And you know what is even quicker? Just using the off the shelf manufacturer data as Kunos has said they do. Most cars aren't Kunos models. AC is brilliant, but Kunos gets far too much credit. They have been smart with their development practices using off the shelf solutions where possible, but that doesn't make them miracle super developers.

Using off the shelf solutions instead of more time consuming starting from scratch solutions is called efficient resource management, something you have to do when you're a team of a dozen people with very limited resources. The end result being so brilliant with so limited resources is the very definition of good game development.

Well, Slip, mind telling me how you reacted to the non-presence of Porsche in other racing games, while they included those...? I couldn't hazard a guess what you think of RUF. So when these racing games have RUF instead, do you refuse to drive them? Go on their boards to ask why they wasted their time with cheap substitutes? How many games are there now?

• Forza
• Project CARS
• Assetto Corsa
• RaceRoom
• And of course Gran Turismo

Now look. If we can't have Porsches, just what do you want? Nothing?

I appreciate being able to race something. What you think on this matter, I frankly don't care because it's pretty clear that you're going to be antagonistic, and might even twist it into me saying that no racing game should ever worry about paying the potentially exorbitant licensing fees to have Porsches in their games when we have this wonderful alternative. This is a senseless argument, but it's what I've come to expect from certain members around here.

Yes, that's what Slip, and I, were trying to say. We hate Ruf and if we can't have Porsche we don't want Ruf. You nailed it. Way to go buddy!

/sarcasm

 

[KiroKai]

Probably not my best analogy. What I mean is, the tyre screech in FM sounds staccato (discontinuous). It's just weird and in my 10+ years of watching motorsports and car videos on the internet I have never heard a tyre screeching sound that is not continuous. It just sounds like the car has really bad traction control or the tyres are skipping across the surface, rather than a constant slide.

This sums up really well what irks me about the tyre sounds in FM6/Apex. It sounds like a constant assist trying to stop the tyres from blocking, in a way I've only heard ABS act on snow. The sound also does nothing to give you an idea when grip is on the edge since it's always there as soon as you touch the steering. And the sound itself doesn't sound like tyre screech to me, if anything it sounds like some type of racing tyre but it's applied to everything.

On the other hand, I think the tyre sounds of Forza Horizon 2 are very nice. And they have a seperate volume slider.

It has already been explained plenty of times. The technology they used to create those models is not compatible with their other plans for GTS so the models must be built from scratch using new technology. I'm sure it isn't something they wanted to do or expected. As a result you will most likely see many old assets rebuilt in time and provided or sold as DLC but the amount of content they are actually promising in the short time they have had at the quality they have shown us is actually very impressive.

Has PD actually confirmed this "physics based rendering requires new models" talk or is it a rumour based on Kaz' claim that all models were redone, that slowly became fact while travelling between posts, to Neogaf and back? Since he also took great pride (and rightly so) before in the quality of their models made during the PS3 generation and how future-proof they are and Forza went through the same dishonest claim of "all models redone", I doubt they are not just reworked Premiums. Since only a few cars shown so far are new to the series I disagree that the content shown/promised is impressive 3 years into the PS4.

 

[mokalovesoulmat]

Been a silent reader from a few days before London event until now...I can say I am very excited, no matter the flaws, lol.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Has PD actually confirmed this "physics based rendering requires new models" talk or is it a rumour based on Kaz'

No because PBR does not require a remodel, To use adaptive tessellation in your engine it does require a remodel if the original model was not designed for the use of. Therefore every asset made before the choice of AT needs a complete rebuild if you want to apply AT across the board. They have to be modelled a certain way to avoid cracks in the topology when the tessellation is applied.

Also, the tessellation data itself most probably comes from a displacement map which would have been built from a very high detailed model.

The list you linked to is out of date. Around 100 unique cars at launch and 11 or 12 laser scanned tracks is the target at launch and they are almost there now. AC's content is built up over 3 years just as GTSport's content is built up over 3 years with a much, much, much larger team.

At a much, much, much higher quality in a much, much, much more modern way. That's not a dig at Kunos, that's a fact. Whether you think the use of modern techniques add more than it takes away in terms of assets is up to you. But don't try and say the workload for the creation of these assets are in any way comparable.

 

[Johnnypenso]

At a much, much, much higher quality in a much, much, much more modern way. That's not a dig at Kunos, that's a fact. Whether you think the use of modern techniques add more than it takes away in terms of assets is up to you. But don't try and say the workload for the creation of these assets are in any way comparable.

If you go back to the start of the exchange you'll see that my objection was to that statement that GTS had way more cars and tracks than AC, which, clearly, it does not. Outdated links are used to not prove a point, then the car count is adjusted in PD's favour by eliminating cars in AC that aren't duplicates and not accounting for the duplication and pseudo duplication in the GTS car list, nor the fact that the car list is incomplete. The goalposts were then moved to say that AC had way more time than PD. Now we have to introduce quality into the discussion to move the goalposts even further from the original point. Next it'll be scapes.

 

[GTchicken]

I am kind of square, Gran Turismo Sport is it, the end game for Polyphony? From what I have seen, there is no Gran Turismo 7 coming out in the future now ? I have been such a long time devoted player and fan of Gran Turismo series, and I am very sad to hear this. Although Gran Turismo Sport looks good for what it is, I just don't wan't it. This is very saddening personally.


I understand change is very good, but some change is not. Just look at the New Coke and Windows 8 and what happened to that. I think if the Gran Turismo model, that was in Gran Turismo from 1-6 worked, why change it? I loved collecting cars, tuning them in the tune shop, adding new wheels, entering a race. I really really hope there is going to be a Gran Turismo 7!

 

[JoaoSilva]

I am kind of square, Gran Turismo Sport is it, the end game for Polyphony? From what I have seen, there is no Gran Turismo 7 coming out in the future now ? I have been such a long time devoted player and fan of Gran Turismo series, and I am very sad to hear this. Although Gran Turismo Sport looks good for what it is, I just don't wan't it. This is very saddening personally.


I understand change is very good, but some change is not. Just look at the New Coke and Windows 8 and what happened to that. I think if the Gran Turismo model, that was in Gran Turismo from 1-6 worked, why change it? I loved collecting cars, tuning them in the tune shop, adding new wheels, entering a race. I really really hope there is going to be a Gran Turismo 7!

Nobody knows it now , there will be more GT's most likely.

 

[lancia delta hf]

And you know what is even quicker? Just using the off the shelf manufacturer data as Kunos has said they do. Most cars aren't Kunos models. AC is brilliant, but Kunos gets far too much credit. They have been smart with their development practices using off the shelf solutions where possible, but that doesn't make them miracle super developers.

You say most Cars aren't Kunos models, which suggests more than 50% are not made by Kunos. Can you verify this as im interested to know or did you pluck this out of thin air?

If you go back to the start of the exchange you'll see that my objection was to that statement that GTS had way more cars and tracks than AC, which, clearly, it does not. Outdated links are used to not prove a point, then the car count is adjusted in PD's favour by eliminating cars in AC that aren't duplicates and not accounting for the duplication and pseudo duplication in the GTS car list, nor the fact that the car list is incomplete. The goalposts were then moved to say that AC had way more time than PD. Now we have to introduce quality into the discussion to move the goalposts even further from the original point. Next it'll be scapes.

Its funny how people are completely ignoring the fact that PD have millions of dollars and pull behind them plus a massive team compared to Kunos when trying to compare the 2 and down playing Kunos jyst because Kunos are making PD lood very slow. Also let's not forget in AC car has its own physics model unlike GT. But but but....... next excuse

 

[ron86]

You say most Cars aren't Kunos models, which suggests more than 50% are not made by Kunos. Can you verify this as im interested to know or did you pluck this out of thin air?

Its funny how people are completely ignoring the fact that PD have millions of dollars and pull behind them plus a massive team compared to Kunos when trying to compare the 2 and down playing Kunos jyst because Kunos are making PD lood very slow. Also let's not forget in AC car has its own physics model unlike GT. But but but....... next excuse

PD has its own physics model too.. or what did you mean by "in Ac car has its own physics model"?

 

[rainbow]

I am kind of square, Gran Turismo Sport is it, the end game for Polyphony? From what I have seen, there is no Gran Turismo 7 coming out in the future now ? I have been such a long time devoted player and fan of Gran Turismo series, and I am very sad to hear this. Although Gran Turismo Sport looks good for what it is, I just don't wan't it. This is very saddening personally.


I understand change is very good, but some change is not. Just look at the New Coke and Windows 8 and what happened to that. I think if the Gran Turismo model, that was in Gran Turismo from 1-6 worked, why change it? I loved collecting cars, tuning them in the tune shop, adding new wheels, entering a race. I really really hope there is going to be a Gran Turismo 7!

Kaz has said that the Sport mode will be in every GT game after this one.

It's just a new beginning. The eSports thing is going to be a part of GT in the future.

Of course there will be a GT7 etc.

(I can't find the specific interview where he said it but it was said in one of the E3 interview)

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Now we have to introduce quality into the discussion to move the goalposts even further from the original point. Next it'll be scapes.

What? Of course we discuss quality, you have to if your going to throw numbers about, it's not changing the goalposts it's to keep it in context. At the time your post read as deliberately ignorant or uneducated at best.

For example "I scored just as many goals as Lionel Messi last season, probably more" Context is everything.

I'm not having a go at you (you are entitled to your opinion to whether it's worth the extra effort in terms of assets, as stated above) Or Kunos (I've owned the game since 24-08-14 according to Steam and also in the process of learning its tools) But like I said, context. Using these points without that paints a picture of bias to prove a point. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

What? Of course we discuss quality, you have to if your going to throw numbers about, it's not changing the goalposts it's to keep it in context. At the time your post read as deliberately ignorant or uneducated at best.

For example "I scored just as many goals as Lionel Messi last season, probably more" Context is everything.

I'm not having a go at you (you are entitled to your opinion to whether it's worth the extra effort in terms of assets, as stated above) Or Kunos (I've owned the game since 24-08-14 according to Steam and also in the process of learning its tools) But like I said, context. Using these points without that paints a picture of bias to prove a point. 👍

You are having a go. There's no need to lace your post with the thinly veiled insults you seem to relish.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

I'm sorry you feel that way but I don't know how else to put it Johnny, you either ignored these facts, or just don't know of them, hence ignorance or uneducated. Tell me why you left out the obvious workload then if you feel I'm attacking you?

If you still feel that way, hit the report button and/or ignore button.

 

[GTchicken]

Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed a fantastic nearly 20 year run with the Gran Turismo series, playing online, with my friends, and the simulation mode. If Gran Turismo Sport is the thing Polyphony is going onward with, I will continue playing the older Gran Turismos and move onto other games. Forza in particular seems to be an comparable alternative. I have tried that game out, and it's just like Gran Turismo. I guess all good things have to come to an end some time.

I am very sad to I have to break up with the series I have always loved.

 

[Cocomoto]

Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed a fantastic nearly 20 year run with the Gran Turismo series, playing online, with my friends, and the simulation mode. If Gran Turismo Sport is the thing Polyphony is going onward with, I will continue playing the older Gran Turismos and move onto other games. Forza in particular seems to be an comparable alternative. I have tried that game out, and it's just like Gran Turismo. I guess all good things have to come to an end some time.

I am very sad to I have to break up with the series I have always loved.

You even played the game yet.

Stop crying about it, wait for the game to come out and then, only then stand a position about it.

 

[PletdeKoe]

This thread is often full of win. I love it. Keep on keeping on brothers!

 

[GTchicken]

Sorry, but first impressions of games are formed when they are first showed. They showed Gran Turismo Sport, and I don't find it compelling at all. It lacks simulation mode, the 500+ cars, the original tracks and majority of the world tracks, dirt tracks. You have to pay an online Playstation Network subscription to use the online features. Gran Turismo Sport lacks all the elements that made me love Gran Turismo, and what made it unique.

Gran Turismo Sport is what it is. I have seen it thoroughly the trailers, and game play video. I don't need to play it to stand a position. I have all the details I need to make a stance on the game.

The only thing Gran Turismo Sport has going for me, are the improved graphics and physics, and that's about it.


I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed a fantastic nearly 20 year run with the Gran Turismo series, playing online, with my friends, and the simulation mode. If Gran Turismo Sport is the thing Polyphony is going onward with, I will continue playing the older Gran Turismos and move onto other games. Forza in particular seems to be an comparable alternative. I have tried that game out, and it's just like Gran Turismo. I guess all good things have to come to an end some time.

I am very sad to I have to break up with the series I have always loved.

I don't know your situation in terms of platforms or funds, but if you are looking to scratch that GT style itch you should most definitely get Forza. I don't know why it would feel like a break up though GTC, you owe PD nothing and also PD owe nothing to you, but you owe it to yourself to play games that you are interested in.

In my opinion GT will return to that format for a few reasons, but when is another question.