Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[sems4arsenal]

They already ran it in other regions, there was literally one video where the driver didn't tap the walls. All the rest looked like this:

Yikes it's not like there is a lack of options, that build has Brands Hatch.

 

[Marron]

For me GT Sport should focus the car list in real world competitions, if they want to make an actual worldwide (as I said before "Reality Show") racing competition.

The list of real world cars should be composed by: GT/2/3/4/LM cars, BTCC/WTCC cars, DTM cars, Super GT500/300, Fórmula 1, GP2, GP3, NASCAR, LMP's 1/2, WRC, Highclimb, etc.

This non sense of PR (as in GT5 and 6) or Gr 1, 2, 3, 4 (GT Sport) ...I mean what the hell is that? Is an excuse to include non real world cars (concepts and made by them, like those Racing versions of street cars) and mix them with real world regulated cars.

I mean this is a game and all, but in my opinion if they want to go real, they should stick with the real deal.

I mean this is PD what we are talking about, they sure have the resources and the money to buy licences for enough cars to make a more than decent car list.

We don't need 1000 cars as before...we just need a great list of cars.

As an example I'll put Forza Motorsport Apex (on PC which I play time to time...with a controller ugh ), it does have a small car list compared to Forza but if you take a closer look you actually have a full grid of GT3 cars, a full grid of BTCC cars, and an almost full grid of LMP cars.
And guess what...it is actually pretty damn good to race with and against those cars because you feel that you are running in a real world regulated class with equal (realistically speaking) cars.

Another example RaceRoom Racing Experience which has DTM, GT, Prototypes, Classic cars, Highclimb, etc...and it works.

Now going back to PD...you have LMP's racing against concept cars...For me that is a major non sense.

I know that a lot of people loves to race with their road cars, but for example I rather race with a Miata Cup car (race version) than an actual Miata regular street car. Why? Because this is racing that we are talking about...that's why. And guess what, you can tune race cars as well. Maybe you loose the "fun" of make your street car into a race one by adding aerodynamics, parts, etc...but this is a racing game after all, not a mechanic simulator (yet there is one on PC tho).

Now personally, I want prepared to race now cars, legal actual regulated race cars to make realistic leagues as it is happening in all PC simulators since 2006 or even before. Can we have a little bit more of common sense or are we going to keep having this thing of PD trying to mix the fun old days of just driving cars in race tracks, with at the same time trying to make us all pilots in a reality show, mixing actual real world competition with fictional non sense content?

I don't know...I'm a bit confused. I just wanted a game similar to GT4, but if they now want to go for the real thing...just go for it and stop mixing/milking or whatever. This is a "spin off" (it isn't) after all, right?


PS: I just wish Forza Motorsport Apex (a developer and game with clear ideas) had steering-wheel support (hope they'll add it soon). Yet there is Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2, R3E, etc. I can't complain having those.

Yes, it is a very ideal one.
But, some of which are outside the jurisdiction of the FIA. Also affect the interests of another organization.
There is no part of our opinion can be affected. That's unfortunate.

Also, Kaz has stated this at the time of the Livery Editor "We can not cover all of motor sports."
I will think of a way that can cover some of the Race Car at the Livery Editor.

 

[jm79]

Yikes it's not like there is a lack of options, that build has Brands Hatch.

Yeah, weird choice that... Also the fact that it's a fantasy track for such a real-world challenge.

Also, Kaz has stated this at the time of the Livery Editor "We can not cover all of motor sports."
I will think of a way that can cover some of the Race Car at the Livery Editor.

I'm a bit suspicious of this whole livery editor thing. Kaz has barely mentioned it and he skipped quickly past it, like it was a naughty child, at the Copper Box reveal. I'm thinking it won't appear, or there'll be a bit of a delay to the release date, maybe...

 

[Marron]

The opinion I'll never understand is 'There are too many cars'. It's like going to the grocery and saying there's too many types of wine.

Do you like every single varietal?

Do some wineries produce better quality wines than others?

Are there similar offerings? (Chardonnay for example)

Am I ever going to have the time to give each wine the thought and attention it might deserve?

Yes, there are straight up duplicates in the GT showroom. I get it. We've been down this road countless times. Can I live with 130 cars? Absolutely.

But if cutting the car count doesn't open valuable free space for other features (more beer, for instance) then what's the harm in keeping them? To reduce the count by 90% like it's time to release employees on account of a recession makes little sense in a video game unless that's the way PD wants to proceed.

Ultimately you can filter out undesirable cars just like filtering responses on this forum you don't want to read.

The purpose of a lot of the cars has been available was "for the people actually own the cars."
But, people who do not have an interest in the car will feel "Why are a lot of the same car?"....

 

[Marron]

Yeah, weird choice that... Also the fact that it's a fantasy track for such a real-world challenge.



I'm a bit suspicious of this whole livery editor thing. Kaz has barely mentioned it and he skipped quickly past it, like it was a naughty child, at the Copper Box reveal. I'm thinking it won't appear, or there'll be a bit of a delay to the release date, maybe...

Yes, so I was expecting the new information about the Livery Editor at E3.
But it was all of the media question, "PS4 NEO?" "PSVR?", "E-Sports?".
It is very disappointing...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yeah, weird choice that... Also the fact that it's a fantasy track for such a real-world challenge...

Early on, after the FIA affiliation and the idea of FIA approved tracks was announced I remember saying I'd take a wait and see attitude as to what it actually means and whether it was just a rubber stamp type of thing or had some real meat to it. Starting out using the Tokyo track and seeing all the wall riding and lack of damage has done little to convince anyone so far that this FIA deal is going to ramp up the overall quality of the racing experience.

 

[Griffith500]

Early on, after the FIA affiliation and the idea of FIA approved tracks was announced I remember saying I'd take a wait and see attitude as to what it actually means and whether it was just a rubber stamp type of thing or had some real meat to it. Starting out using the Tokyo track and seeing all the wall riding and lack of damage has done little to convince anyone so far that this FIA deal is going to ramp up the overall quality of the racing experience.

I'm not sure GT-A or the preview events are strictly representative of the overall racing experience, so of course it means waiting a bit longer.

 

[Samus]

I'm not sure GT-A or the preview events are strictly representative of the overall racing experience, so of course it means waiting a bit longer.

The test events at the launch were not exactly much better. I think the only thing that is likely to change it is a good mechanical damage model but it remains to be seen how that will actually turn out.

 

[Neomone]

They already ran it in other regions, there was literally one video where the driver didn't tap the walls. All the rest looked like this:

If they want to be taken seriously as an eSport, stuff like that has to be at the very least significantly slower than driving cleanly. The guy hardly lost any speed hitting the walls.

There's two problems. One, it's not realistic. Two, serious racers will do whatever is fastest to win. If that's wall riding, then you'll have races where everyone wall rides, which seriously damages the perception of a online motorsport. The world championship will be decided by who can wall ride the best.

Please Polyphony, fix it so that touching the walls is slower. That's how it works in real life, honest. Like the Wind was funny for a while but we don't actually enjoy playing like that.

 

[scholesy1899]

The test events at the launch were not exactly much better. I think the only thing that is likely to change it is a good mechanical damage model but it remains to be seen how that will actually turn out.

And the implementation of these flags and penalties. We have seen arcade mode/online lobby only with dodgy pace car and yellow flag so far.

We need pit stop blog vids of the interns, building their driver and seeing how their races and incidents therein, affect their driver class etc. whilst they've been playing amongst themselves.

A 'this is how it works guys' video.

 

[Griffith500]

The test events at the launch were not exactly much better. I think the only thing that is likely to change it is a good mechanical damage model but it remains to be seen how that will actually turn out.

Damage is an interesting prospect, certainly - hopefully it will raise the game in respect of the FIA stuff proper. I hope it does interesting things for single player as well.

I was actually thinking more about how the driver rating might settle things out in the long run.

It would indeed be nice to know how that will all work.

 

[jm79]

Damage is an interesting prospect, certainly - hopefully it will raise the game in respect of the FIA stuff proper. I hope it does interesting things for single player as well.

I was actually thinking more about how the driver rating might settle things out in the long run.

It would indeed be nice to know how that will all work.

I would bet a significant portion of the money in my pocket that damage won't make release.

And I'm a dyed in the wool optimist.

 

[LM7325]

That wall riding is a shame. Hopefully that is not what they looked into GT1 for.

I would like to see GT1 style transmission tuning back, 19 years on and no other GT did it better.

 

[super_gt]

This is pretty good for opening or ending movie for GT Sport.

 

[ribloGT]

This is pretty good for opening or ending movie for GT Sport.

The track and the car are both real... It doesnt fit with GTS- The Ridge Racer driving simulator...

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Before going to muy grandma's funeral... Recently found something interesting...

View attachment 568924

I take it GT is going down the 'real motorsport' route by sponsoring absolutely everything?

What the hell do they care about Baja?

 

[Johnnypenso]

A combination of a realistic increase in drag due to friction + mechanical damage + a loss of aero efficiency should put an end to any advantage that wall riding might bring. The problem is that works best when you are out on the track by yourself because when you hit the wall it's your own fault. When you have other drivers on the track and they can give you a light tap to send you into the wall and they only take a small hit on their driver rating, the advantage is going to be wth the dirty driver. I'm not sure that that is an easy dilemma to resolve other than through race stewarding.

 

[Quakebass]

The Gran Turismo SnapChat is posting from the California offices, they're hosting a few guests and have shown a little bit of gameplay, but so far it's only been stuff we've seen already. Roger Yasukawa and Sung Kang are trying out the game on the pods, no idea if it's a new build or not.

No idea if there's a way to share Snap media so I took screenshots:

 

[Nato_777]

A combination of a realistic increase in drag due to friction + mechanical damage + a loss of aero efficiency should put an end to any advantage that wall riding might bring. The problem is that works best when you are out on the track by yourself because when you hit the wall it's your own fault. When you have other drivers on the track and they can give you a light tap to send you into the wall and they only take a small hit on their driver rating, the advantage is going to be wth the dirty driver. I'm not sure that that is an easy dilemma to resolve other than through race stewarding.

Simple - don't hold official races and GT Academy races on the Tokyo track - but that's too logical. Any other track where you can leave the track limits instead of wall riding do not have the issue.

 

[girabyt3]

I take it GT is going down the 'real motorsport' route by sponsoring absolutely everything?

What the hell do they care about Baja?

I don't know, I've searching and didn't find anything that relates GT with Baja like Pikes Peak...

 

[nasanu]

Context: selling players on the promise of an upcoming update for a product. On the official website for the actual product.

You'd have a point if there were words along the lines of "we hope to include..." or "we're going to try to do this, but we're not sure if it's possible". The word choice is clear there: the GPS-based function will be coming.

Yes, and they said that in the context of game development where it is quite common for games to ship without planned features.

And games are not sold on the promise of future content. Read the software license, you buy the right to use what is on the disc, that is it.

Now if you want to talk about laymens expectations that's different, but again I must remind you of context the current context is regarding consumer law.

Once again I'm not sure why "too many" is a valid criticism but "too few" isn't. Just because people wanted less duplicates and standard models padding out a car list to 1200 it doesn't mean they wanted the lowest car count of any full game full of fictional models. They've gone from one extreme to the other, is it really that hard to fathom most people wanted and expected something in the middle?

The issue is with people complaining about getting what they asked for. They complained, this is the result.

And this is hardly the other extreme. There is still quite a lot of cars.

 

[Neomone]

When you have other drivers on the track and they can give you a light tap to send you into the wall and they only take a small hit on their driver rating, the advantage is going to be wth the dirty driver. I'm not sure that that is an easy dilemma to resolve other than through race stewarding.

It requires careful balancing of the penalty systems, both explicit (like penalty points) and implicit (like damage). It certainly isn't an easy problem, but it's probably more cost effective than trying to pay stewards for large numbers of races.

One of the things on their side is that they can start with a basic system and make adjustments as they see how people abuse it, I suppose.

And games are not sold on the promise of future content. Read the software license, you buy the right to use what is on the disc, that is it.

And when you buy the digital version?

And this is hardly the other extreme. There is still quite a lot of cars.

It depends entirely how they count the duplicates in the list. Are a stock MX5 and a Gr. N MX5 two different cars? If so we could be looking at a unique model list of well under 70.

And even if not, it's the smallest car list for a full Gran Turismo release ever. I don't think that's what anyone was asking for.

People wanted quality and were willing to accept a reduced car list as a trade off. They weren't asking for less cars just for the sake of it. I doubt many people thought that the premium cars would be chucked out after all of Polyphony's noise about them being future proof. So the worst anyone who was asking for less cars would have expected would have been an all premium line-up.

Losing all the premiums as well is not getting what they're asking for.

 

[GTboyz]

Just tried one in a local mall where they held the GT Academy. Out of all the exciting tracks, they chose Tokyo Expressway unfortunately. Only the 2017 GTR is available since... It's GT Academy.

Sound is certainly improved though only a little.
Physics ? Can't say much since i didn't play GT6 but idk, i don't have a wheel (which means i don't know crap about how to handle the FFB) and never try a GTR so my opinion means squat but it feels weird ?

Maybe i just haven't got used to the AWD (last year GT Academy event used the 370Z). Tried my best and got 1:24:376 from the 5 minute game time limit. If i play with a controller it would be a lot faster i imagine LOL.

All in all 10/10 would get "spinout cancelled" by GTR again.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Would it? It seems to me that an offline career mode could be a valuable place for people to learn the skills to race and be good sportsmen without negatively impacting on the experience of others. All it would require is that offline career have the same restrictions and penalties as online.

I don't think including an offline career mode would drive new players to the franchise away, nor do I think that many (or any) will be attracted because there isn't an offline career. They may not care either way, but I don't see why anyone wouldn't buy a game simply because it has an offline career.

I suspect that Polyphony simply wants to force as many people as possible into online, as serious multiplayer games oftenrise and fall on the size of their player base.

Yes I think it would attract new players. People just don't want to grind for credits or go through rigorous processes to achieve a set goal. They should be able to learn how to drive without any major hassles or repetition. No one wants to waste time doing unnecessary things that don't need to be done (this is in a general sense, may not apply to every individual on this planet). Online is the way of the future, and there is no changing that, as much as some others want to.

 

[Neomone]

People just don't want to grind for credits or go through rigorous processes to achieve a set goal. They should be able to learn how to drive without any major hassles or repetition. No one wants to waste time doing unnecessary things that don't need to be done (this is in a general sense, may not apply to every individual on this planet).

Why do any of these things need to be in an offline career mode?

What precludes any or all of these things from being in an online career mode?

If those are the things that you think would attract new players they can be done in both online and offline. This is not a strong argument that online only is necessary.

Online is the way of the future, and there is no changing that, as much as some others want to.

No, online is an additional option that is available to developers. They may choose to use it or not, as they see fit.

You'll notice for example that while 3D graphics have become much more popular in the modern age, there's still a significant amount of games that are made with 2D graphics.

Why should online/offline be any different? What is it about online that makes it unequivocally better than an offline experience? I can think of at least one reason why a developer would want their game not to be online: control over the experience.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Why do any of these things need to be in an offline career mode?

What precludes any or all of these things from being in an online career mode?

If those are the things that you think would attract new players they can be done in both online and offline. This is not a strong argument that online only is necessary.



No, online is an additional option that is available to developers. They may choose to use it or not, as they see fit.

You'll notice for example that while 3D graphics have become much more popular in the modern age, there's still a significant amount of games that are made with 2D graphics.

Why should online/offline be any different? What is it about online that makes it unequivocally better than an offline experience? I can think of at least one reason why a developer would want their game not to be online: control over the experience.

I have the firm belief that GT Sport will open up the doors for new players. The only case for offline is that people who played other GT games will have a sense of nostalgia. I don't know anyone who plays offline anymore and quite frankly, none have really expressed serious interest in games like Gran Turismo. GT is not the kind of game people think of when it comes to online interaction - it cannot be played by the masses like GTA, NBA 2K16 or COD. I may be a shocking COD player and GTA isn't my favourite game, but I can play them because they aren't hard to play. Racing games really are a niche market and are played by the minority who are genuine car buffs, you see? Kaz wants to change GT's current image and make it more mainstream than what it was in the past. I know I've changed up the topic, but I don't believe that a full-on career mode would be attractive to the average gamer.

 

[Griffith500]

It requires careful balancing of the penalty systems, both explicit (like penalty points) and implicit (like damage). It certainly isn't an easy problem, but it's probably more cost effective than trying to pay stewards for large numbers of races.

This; plus: track collisions and their consequences and apportion equal driver rating penalty on all involved. Eventually the "best" racers will avoid such interactions.

It'd need tuning and testing as to what to track and what to ignore and just how much of the collateral to share out.

 

[Cocomoto]

Interesting how from time to time, i hear here in GTP user say that everyone he knows, doesn't have interest in Gran Turismo, still, the sells more than any other game.

 

[Neomone]

I have the firm belief that GT Sport will open up the doors for new players.

I'm sure it will. It's obviously intended to do so. That's really neither here nor there though.

The only case for offline is that people who played other GT games will have a sense of nostalgia.

Not at all. As I said above, it can allow a developer to create a more controlled experience. When you're playing online, you have to deal with other players. As I'm sure you're aware, other players can sometimes make the experience horrible, either because they're just not very good at the game or because they're trolls.

In an offline experience the developer doesn't have to deal with the potential for a gang of dribbling 12 year olds playing demolition derby in the clean racing lobby. They can design the experience that they want to have, and be sure that the player is going to get it. That has value, if you're trying to deliver a specific experience.

I don't know anyone who plays offline anymore and quite frankly, none have really expressed serious interest in games like Gran Turismo.

This is more representative of you and your group of friends than anything. I can assure you that there are still people who play offline. Online is important, especially for competitive games, but it's not the be all and end all.

GT is not the kind of game people think of when it comes to online interaction - it cannot be played by the masses like GTA, NBA 2K16 or COD. I may be a shocking COD player and GTA isn't my favourite game, but I can play them because they aren't hard to play.

Let's be fair, Gran Turismo isn't really any harder to play at a basic level than COD is. Or any of those other games, really. Gran Turismo has one stick and two buttons, and you really don't have to show that much finesse with any of them.

The thing is that people who play COD mostly have hundreds of hours on FPS games. It's not hard to pick up a new one, because most of the mechanics and stuff are broadly similar. They have a base of skills to build on already. But put them in GT and they're starting from square one, they have to learn new controls, new ways of judging their gameplay, and new strategies. That's tough.

As someone who only started playing MOBAs a couple years ago, I can sympathise. I never got into DotA or LoL because it was too much to learn. But when some of the more simplified games started coming out I learned, and now I have thousands of hours played and can move fairly easily between games because I have the basic mechanics down.

Racing games really are a niche market and are played by the minority who are genuine car buffs, you see? Kaz wants to change GT's current image and make it more mainstream than what it was in the past. I know I've changed up the topic, but I don't believe that a full-on career mode would be attractive to the average gamer.

It depends what you mean by "full-on career mode". I happen to think that it's possible to build a career mode that would be engaging to a wide range of people, it's just that it would need to be more than a simple list of races to complete.

Remember when RPGs used to be mostly grind fests? You still get it in certain genres of JRPGs today. But we also have story driven RPGs, and they tend to be a lot more widely popular. Mechanics are still there for the hardcore who want to get into the game side, and there's story and emotional engagement for people who just want to enjoy playing.

I don't see why a good racing career in a game couldn't do something similar. Give people a reason to want to drive, to want to complete that next race. Give them pretty stuff to look at and do for that first 20-40 hours, and by the time they're finished the career they'll find that they're actually pretty decent drivers now. They just spent 40 hours practicing, but it didn't feel like practicing because they were engaged in the greater story.

 

[Robbks]

Yes, you want offline.
In reality, You Ain't getting it.

40 hours of grinding....