Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Samus]

I think we can all agree that this was marketing speak and not the literal actual truth.

Don't see why we would believe that, no.

“The level of precision we’ve achieved [in GT5] is actually more suited to the next generation of machines. The detail that goes into a premium model [has] gone beyond the level of the current PlayStation.”

Plus we know just looking at them it was mostly true, the vast majority of premium models would not look out of place in GTS. We know how insanely detailed they are.

It was the truth back then, it's still technically true. We just don't know why PD have decided not to use them, visually they are more than enough.

 

[Cocomoto]

it seems really crazy if ALL the work on PS3 premiums couldn't be used on PS4 because of tessellation.

Maybe the skeleton(is that right?) of the cars have to be redone, but all the others things maybe can be used. So maybe, only maybe PD can make those cars a little faster, not 6 months to do 1 cars, so...

EDIT: Oh man, this F40 pic is amazing, i recall when i first saw that. Just gorgeous!! Yeah man, a lot of premiums in GT5/6 have better modelling than Assetto Corsa, for example. That looks good, but some cars have some sharp edges.

Talking about AC, the price is really good for a new game here in Brazil, it's a little bit cheaper than even Sony's first party games.

 

[ribloGT]

With GT5-6 they recycled everything... With GTS they throw away everything...
Somebody tell them that perfection lies in the middle...

 

[sems4arsenal]

This means absolutely nothing but Apparently the demo of GTSport needs a T300rs and is not usable with a T500. Like I said this means nothing but interesting none the less.

 

[jm79]

Don't see why we would believe that, no.

“The level of precision we’ve achieved [in GT5] is actually more suited to the next generation of machines. The detail that goes into a premium model [has] gone beyond the level of the current PlayStation.”

Plus we know just looking at them it was mostly true, the vast majority of premium models would not look out of place in GTS. We know how insanely detailed they are.

It was the truth back then, it's still technically true. We just don't know why PD have decided not to use them, visually they are more than enough.

Sound. I just said. It's not irrelevant. I don't know exactly how much @Johnnypenso but it is a good deal of work.
And it's intrinsically linked to the 3D model, because to simulate a car properly, you need its sound too, not just the mesh.
Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sound. I just said. It's not irrelevant. I don't know exactly how much @Johnnypenso but it is a good deal of work.
And it's intrinsically linked to the 3D model, because to simulate a car properly, you need its sound too, not just the mesh.
Wouldn't you agree?

So you have no idea how much work it is so you just thought you'd throw out, "very, very time-consuming", and, "most likely very expensive", and "to do all the sound properly for these cars is a hell of a lot of work, and thus, time", when you really have no idea what's involved? Is that what you call marketing speak defending PD and not the actual, literal truth?

 

[jm79]

So you have no idea how much work it is so you just thought you'd throw out, "very, very time-consuming", and, "most likely very expensive", and "to do all the sound properly for these cars is a hell of a lot of work, and thus, time", when you really have no idea what's involved? Is that what you call marketing speak defending PD and not the actual, literal truth?

Hey listen mate, no need to get quite so accusatory and negative, OK.

I am a sound designer, I have worked in film, TV and videogames, but not any driving titles. I am not an expert on car sound recording, but I have a fair idea, because of my work, so that's why I said "I don't know exactly how much".

Please, try and keep this vaguely polite. I was merely stating that there is work involved, and to counter @Samus ' point that it was irrelevant. Also, I do believe that accurately recorded and modelled sound is just as important to the simulation of a particular car as the visual mesh is.

 

[Cocomoto]

This means absolutely nothing but Apparently the demo of GTSport needs a T300rs and is not usable with a T500. Like I said this means nothing but interesting none the less.

How do you know that the T500 can't be used in the demo?

I not sure but, i saw a list of games compatible with the T500 and GTS was listed, trying to find it on TM official site again and check it to be sure.

EDIT: Found it!!

http://ts.thrustmaster.com/eng/index.php?pg=view_files&gid=3&fid=15&pid=317&cid=12

 

[sems4arsenal]

How do you know that the T500 can't be used in the demo?

I not sure but, i saw a list of games compatible with the T500 and GTS was listed, trying to find it on TM official site again and check it to be sure.

They tried using them but they didn't work, I'm sure this is fixable in a patch and it will probably work in the release version.

 

[pakicote]

They tried using them but they didn't work, I'm sure this is fixable in a patch and it will probably work in the release version.

Hey man!

I can confirm we are using the T500 on the Gt sport Gt academy demo here in Mexico.

 

[Matej]

Time is not enough, the over 300 premium cars to super-premium cars.

Three years (2013 -) was more than enough to upgrade all the cars from premium to super-premium. Although I still think this isn't necessary as differences between the groups barely exist.

In addition, if they are to improve the sound, it will be necessary to actually prepare the cars again.

As others have mentioned, I think sound designers have nothing to do with car modelators.

Maybe this heavily contributed to the decision to drop a lot of them for GTS. It's worth considering at the very least.

License could have expired for certain vehicles or they just want to start from scratch, with a new philosophy (similar to GT3). I doubt they became aware of sound criticism so much they would even discard vehicles to keep the game free of cars with low-quality sounds.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hey listen mate, no need to get quite so accusatory and negative, OK.

I am a sound designer, I have worked in film, TV and videogames, but not any driving titles. I am not an expert on car sound recording, but I have a fair idea, because of my work, so that's why I said "I don't know exactly how much".

Please, try and keep this vaguely polite. I was merely stating that there is work involved, and to counter @Samus ' point that it was irrelevant. Also, I do believe that accurately recorded and modelled sound is just as important to the simulation of a particular car as the visual mesh is.

Just stating the facts. You're trying to prove your points by making stuff up out of thin air then when you get called on it, it's "don't be so accusatory and negative ok". In the future, if something is just your opinion, phrase it as an opinion instead of as a fact. Everyone wins.

 

[jm79]

Just stating the facts. You're trying to prove your points by making stuff up out of thin air then when you get called on it, it's "don't be so accusatory and negative ok". In the future, if something is just your opinion, phrase it as an opinion instead of as a fact. Everyone wins.

Wow, that was unneccessary.

I am a sound designer, I know what I'm talking about. By stating that my career knowledge amounts to, and I quote,

"making stuff up out of thin air"

is a direct insult.

Why can we not have a sensible discussion without being attacked?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Wow, that was unneccessary.

I am a sound designer, I know what I'm talking about. By stating that my career knowledge amounts to, and I quote,

"making stuff up out of thin air"

is a direct insult.

Why can we not have a sensible discussion without being attacked?

Then answer the questions that you've avoided.

So how very, very time consuming is it to record the sound for one car? How expensive is it?

It takes six months to model a car according to PD. What % of that time is sound recording? How much does it cost to record sound for a car?

 

[jm79]

Then answer the questions that you've avoided.
It takes six months to model a car according to PD. What % of that time is sound recording? How much does it cost to record sound for a car?

Good god.

I was avoiding nothing. I was contributing to a general discussion with fellow GTP members who weren't personally insulting me, with a casual, informal reminder that sound design is work, and work is time consuming and costs money. The fact that they hired a very prominent sound designer was an indication that they take sound design a lot more seriously now. And that it is not just visuals that determine the accuracy of a simulation of a car.

As I clearly stated in the middle of your rant, I am not a car sound recordist, but I work in the field, so I have a broad, and good idea of how much time and effort is involved. So expecting me to respond to you when you dash in demanding specifics and statistics from this bloody charlatan 'making things up out of thin air' is wildly optimistic. The burden of finding that information is on you, my friend. I am making general points in a general conversation, on, yes, you guessed it, the general discussion board.

I prefer civilised discussions, where I don't get personally attacked.

Try not attacking me, and you may get a civilised response.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Hey man!

I can confirm we are using the T500 on the Gt sport Gt academy demo here in Mexico.

Oh never mind then, must be incompetence on their part here thanks mate and good luck

 

[Johnnypenso]

Good god.

I was avoiding nothing. I was contributing to a general discussion with fellow GTP members who weren't personally insulting me, with a casual, informal reminder that sound design is work, and work is time consuming and costs money. The fact that they hired a very prominent sound designer was an indication that they take sound design a lot more seriously now. And that it is not just visuals that determine the accuracy of a simulation of a car.

As I clearly stated in the middle of your rant, I am not a car sound recordist, but I work in the field, so I have a broad, and good idea of how much time and effort is involved. So expecting me to respond to you when you dash in demanding specifics and statistics from this bloody charlatan 'making things up out of thin air' is wildly optimistic. The burden of finding that information is on you, my friend. I am making general points in a general conversation, on, yes, you guessed it, the general discussion board.

I prefer civilised discussions, where I don't get personally attacked.

Try not attacking me, and you may get a civilised response.

If you don't know how long it takes to model sound aren't you just making things up out of thin air? If I had said, "We should consider that it doesn't take nearly as long to model a car as Kaz said it does (6 months) so there's no excuse for this paltry output" you don't think someone would object to that? It's literally the same position in the opposite direction.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Good god.

I was avoiding nothing. I was contributing to a general discussion with fellow GTP members who weren't personally insulting me, with a casual, informal reminder that sound design is work, and work is time consuming and costs money. The fact that they hired a very prominent sound designer was an indication that they take sound design a lot more seriously now. And that it is not just visuals that determine the accuracy of a simulation of a car.

As I clearly stated in the middle of your rant, I am not a car sound recordist, but I work in the field, so I have a broad, and good idea of how much time and effort is involved. So expecting me to respond to you when you dash in demanding specifics and statistics from this bloody charlatan 'making things up out of thin air' is wildly optimistic. The burden of finding that information is on you, my friend. I am making general points in a general conversation, on, yes, you guessed it, the general discussion board.

I prefer civilised discussions, where I don't get personally attacked.

Try not attacking me, and you may get a civilised response.

You're the one who brought sound into this when it was about polygon models. If people pick you up on that, you shouldn't be surprised.

Your point that re-recording sound for each car would be time consuming is valid but it is nothing to do with polygon models at all.

They took 6 months to make. Do you think it would take anything like that long to redo the sound?

 

[Marron]

Nonsense. The premium cars do not need reworking at all for the most part. We've been swooning over the insane level of detail on them since GT5, they would not look out of place on PS4 at all, as Kaz himself even told us. They were future-proof.

As for sound, totally irrelevent. The 3D model has nothing to do with the sound, you could make a square box sound perfectly realistic if you wanted to.

I think the inclusion of premium cars in GTS is technically possible.
Many of my favorite car is a premium car.
But, PD will not do it. We are looking for a better model.

At the same sound it is not completely unrelated. 3D models and sound as the car data is needed.
The results of the forum questionnaire of GTPlanet, Kaz has describes the sound in PITSTOP.
It is easy to use the sound of the GT6, but if a lot of people accept that, I think there is no need Kaz to explain.

Holy generalisation Batman!

Actually the part of the Japanese from the Kaz Twitter account there was "Red Bull challenge of GT6 is difficult. More easily!".
Many of them have been "digested" the content. Not so much to "enjoy".

 

[jm79]

You're the one who brought sound into this when it was about polygon models. If people pick you up on that, you shouldn't be surprised.

Your point that re-recording sound for each car would be time consuming is valid but it is nothing to do with polygon models at all.

They took 6 months to make. Do you think it would take anything like that long to redo the sound?

My original point, if you bothered to read, was that they may have been held back for release in GTS because they may need their whole sound set re-done, and that takes time.

Do you really think I believe 3D modellers need the input of a sound designer? Good god man. Credit me with some intelligence, at least.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

I think the inclusion of premium cars in GTS is technically possible.
Many of my favorite car is a premium car.
But, PD will not do it. We are looking for a better model.

At the same sound it is not completely unrelated. 3D models and sound as the car data is needed.
The results of the forum questionnaire of GTPlanet, Kaz has describes the sound in PITSTOP.
It is easy to use the sound of the GT6, but if a lot of people accept that, I think there is no need Kaz to explain.



Actually the part of the Japanese from the Kaz Twitter account there was "Red Bull challenge of GT6 is difficult. More easily!".
Many of them have been "digested" the content. Not so much to "enjoy".

Why do you insert a new line after every sentence? It makes your post harder to read.

 

[jm79]

If you don't know how long it takes to model sound aren't you just making things up out of thin air? If I had said, "We should consider that it doesn't take nearly as long to model a car as Kaz said it does (6 months) so there's no excuse for this paltry output" you don't think someone would object to that? It's literally the same position in the opposite direction.

Instead of tying yourself in knots, why don't you try addressing the very simple point I was making in a fashion that doesn't involve personal insults? 👍

Would you like me to describe the aforementioned very basic point I was trying to make, that didn't need detailed figures, for the 137th time?

Or will you just rephrase your insult again?

lol @ you

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The 6 months one man hours for one car is an old statement ( if I recalled correctly ), when was it made ? GT5 ? That would be more than 5 years ago if from GT5 days, I don't think PD stay stagnant with modelling process, they would have made improvement in efficiency and scanning methods perhaps ? It's only natural to progress, and let's not forget PD have been hiring more people since GT6.

PD may have many of old gen premium 3d models ready for GTS after touch ups/conversion ( GT6 new premium were better than older GT5 premium ), but the sound for most of them may still in backlog of updating to new GTS sound engine standards ? New recording alone may be difficult to do on older cars, and who knows, PD may also need time updating the car physics ( data conversion, new parameters, testing-tweaking for glitch/bugs which can be time consuming )

So many things we don't know about PD internal development process

 

[JTB10000]

Their new damage model is probably why they didn't bring GT5/6 models back. These "Super Premiums" must have much more internal detail and attention to individual parts so stuff can actually fall off and be caved in instead of being left with little silly dents and scratches.

 

[Tired Tyres]

My original point, if you bothered to read, was that they may have been held back for release in GTS because they may need their whole sound set re-done, and that takes time.

Do you really think I believe 3D modellers need the input of a sound designer? Good god man. Credit me with some intelligence, at least.

Mate. YOU are the one getting worked up over this. The point YOU raised about SOUND was a reply to a post that had NOTHING to do with what YOU posted. Is it hot and humid where you are? Chill man. Just chill.

 

[queleuleu]

Hey listen mate, no need to get quite so accusatory and negative, OK.

I am a sound designer, I have worked in film, TV and videogames, but not any driving titles. I am not an expert on car sound recording, but I have a fair idea, because of my work, so that's why I said "I don't know exactly how much".

Please, try and keep this vaguely polite. I was merely stating that there is work involved, and to counter @Samus ' point that it was irrelevant. Also, I do believe that accurately recorded and modelled sound is just as important to the simulation of a particular car as the visual mesh is.

Ahahahaha! Welcome my friend^^

 

[Samus]

I don't see the sound being an excuse not to include them given that I'll be absolutely amazed if all cars that are in GTS sound great on release. I'll bet many sound very much the same as GT6.

The 6 months one man hours for one car is an old statement ( if I recalled correctly ), when was it made ? GT5 ? That would be more than 5 years ago if from GT5 days, I don't think PD stay stagnant with modelling process, they would have made improvement in efficiency and scanning methods perhaps ? It's only natural to progress, and let's not forget PD have been hiring more people since GT6.

Actually there was a quote on the website before GT6 released (and is still there) that says:

In recent years, CAD data of actual cars are often provided to Gran Turismo thanks to our strong partnerships with automotive manufacturers and as a consequence, the time to understand the design of the car has been drastically reduced. The same cannot be said for the development time: a model will still take 6 months to create, and that is because the time and costs saved in the research phase are re-distributed into modelling to further improve the quality of the final product.

So technically yes they've improved their process but haven't got any faster.

 

[jm79]

Mate. YOU are the one getting worked up over this. The point YOU raised about SOUND was a reply to a post that had NOTHING to do with what YOU posted. Is it hot and humid where you are? Chill man. Just chill.

Again, Mr. angry all-caps, perfectly chilled, lol, would you like me to reiterate my original, simple point?
Or just take a little look up, as @Ridox2JZGTE has said the exact same thing.

I was 'worked up', as you put it, purely in my response to someone else, because someone else insulted me.

 

[LM7325]

I would be fine if the engine sounds were just NFSMW 2005 caliber, I am hoping for much better, but I am giving them a fairly easy bar to hit because so much else needs tending to.

 

[Castrol96]

I almost forgot about the bloody Neo...

Will be so interesting seeing the differences. (And so controversial!)

Can't wait, haha...

One thing I hope is that the game wont be just a 4k 60fps version but enhanced.