Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I don't see the sound being an excuse not to include them given that I'll be absolutely amazed if all cars that are in GTS sound great on release. I'll bet many sound very much the same as GT6.



Actually there was a quote on the website before GT6 released (and is still there) that says:



So technically yes they've improved their process but haven't got any faster.

GT6 was released in 2013, any hint if that statement was made before PD start hiring more people ? if each car still targeted at 6 months build time, then PD having more people just means more car every 6 months

For sound, if we expect similar sound in GTS as in GT6, then PD could just shove GT6 sounds to GTS, put some icing with new GTS sound engine perhaps, then stamp it new version I was having more hopeful improvement in sound, at least new recording as a base.

 

[jm79]

One thing I hope is that the game wont be just a 4k 60fps version but enhanced.

Yeah, me too, big time.

Same res, same frame rate, but more awesome.

4K is not something I'm personally bothered about yet.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Instead of tying yourself in knots, why don't you try addressing the very simple point I was making in a fashion that doesn't involve personal insults? 👍

Would you like me to describe the aforementioned very basic point I was trying to make, that didn't need detailed figures, for the 137th time?

Or will you just rephrase your insult again?

lol @ you

You're taking this very personally and assuming an intent on my part which is not there. Best to avoid that. Sound takes time...check..already acknowledged. To offer sound up as a potential major hurdle in releasing cars requires something beyond..hurr durr..sound is really hard and holds up the modeling process. You may have noticed that the new cars don't sound much different from the old cars and there's little evidence of a major sound overhaul in any of the cars seen so far. Better? Slightly. Up to the best of the genre? Not even close. Similar flat and lifeless engine sounds, same instantaneous upshift and downshift, same monotonous transmission whine etc. It doesn't seem to have held up any of the cars so far.

 

[jm79]

You're taking this very personally and assuming an intent on my part which is not there. Best to avoid that. Sound takes time...check..already acknowledged. To offer sound up as a potential major hurdle in releasing cars requires something beyond..hurr durr..sound is really hard and holds up the modeling process. You may have noticed that...

Yeah, there was a civilised debate to be had, that's why I proposed a possible explanation, not the exact and total truth.

And, I am truly sorry about this, my super duper friend, but I will always take it personally when someone personally insults me. (See what I did there?)

Also, it's a little sad that it's taken you exactly this long...:

...the new cars don't sound much different from the old cars and there's little evidence of a major sound overhaul in any of the cars seen so far. Better? Slightly. Up to the best of the genre? Not even close. Similar flat and lifeless engine sounds, same instantaneous upshift and downshift, same monotonous transmission whine etc. It doesn't seem to have held up any of the cars so far.

...to approach anything like a moderate approach to my original point.

Maybe tone down the rhetoric, and quit the personal insults is all. You're free to any god damn opinion you like. I will never shut you down. And I will chat with you calmly about anything, anytime. Really.

 

[Samus]

Instead of the usual boring questions someone really needs to ask Kaz "Why were the premium cars not included in GTS, what makes the new "ground up" models different?" Unless I missed it I don't think anyone has been direct yet.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

We need to ask Kaz, Will Cizeta V16T, Countach 25th Anniversary, Dino 246GT and other new premiums in GT6 be in GTS ? if not, why the exclusion, it was newly built premium for GT6, and it was very detailed compared to GT5 premiums, it would be a waste to just drop it.

Those new gT6 premium would easily add the already paltry car list in GTS, if they are not included yet in the 130+ car list

 

[LM7325]

The bigger question is why didn't they just start completely fresh.

130 cars never seen before in GT, New tracks never seen before in GT besides the mandatory 'Ring/Sarthe/Spa.

I would be ok with that. I think it would have cut a lot of confusion out for sure.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

The remodeling of cars seems to surround their leaning on the tessellation a bit more.

Not all cars in GT6 used the tessellation in the first place, and I guess once they realised they could really up the poly count for PS4 (and, because of the way the meshes are stored, have no memory penalty on PS3 by only streaming out to a certain detail level in-game), they presumably went all-out from that point forwards.

Yep

The adding of tessellation to all models is not trivial, but can be partly automated; the interiors are the real challenge. I hope PD find a way of not throwing away the work they did on Premiums; if that takes time, so be it.

If the T-verts were not aligned properly in the first place this is highly doubtful I'm afraid. Plus the fact you need a super high poly mesh to build your displacement map off of anyway so you might a well kill two birds with one stone.

Nonsense. The premium cars do not need reworking at all for the most part. We've been swooning over the insane level of detail on them since GT5, they would not look out of place on PS4 at all, as Kaz himself even told us. They were future-proof.

Sooo, after spending the last five or six years complaining about the two different tiers of quality and consistency in the models, you now want two different tiers of quality and consistency in the models? Makes perfect sense.

 

[Samus]

Sooo, after spending the last five or six years complaining about the two different tiers of quality and consistency in the models, you now want two different tiers of quality and consistency in the models? Makes perfect sense.

Yes, because the differences between standards and premiums are exactly the same as the differences between premiums and super premiums, aren't they? Come on.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Yes, because the differences between standards and premiums are exactly the same as the differences between premiums and super premiums, aren't they? Come on.

To you, maybe. To all the people you shut down over the years for not sharing your opinion, no.

The point till stands mate, people see different things. Just because it does not bother you who's to say it does not bother other people? See what I'm getting at here?

Also you have yet to see, or are going to see, two different tiers side by side within this new engine so you are in no position to make that call.

 

[ArR29]

Maybe GT5-GT6 models wasn't good enough for them so they need to start from scratch.

Here's an early comparison Real life vs GTSport vs Forza


GTSport obviously look more photorealistic to me texture, shaders, and lighting looks generation ahead of Forza interior modeling imo


*Forza screenshot is from NeoGaf

 

[Samus]

To you, maybe. To all the people you shut down over the years for not sharing your opinion, no.

Seriously?

Standards are single piece, 4,000 polygon models created in a non-HD era.
Premiums are multi-piece, highly detailed models with 500,000 polygons made in the HD era.
Super Premiums are multi-piece, highly detailed models with 500,000+ polygons made in the HD era.

It doesn't take a genius to determine that there is a huge gulf between the S/P and the difference between P/SP is near non-existent. It's not the same at all.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Seriously?

Standards are single piece, 4,000 polygon models created in a non-HD era.
Premiums are multi-piece, highly detailed models with 500,000 polygons made in the HD era.
Super Premiums are multi-piece, highly detailed models with 500,000+ polygons made in the HD era.

It doesn't take a genius to determine that there is a huge gulf between the S/P and the different between P/SP is near non-existent. It's not the same at all.

Like i said.

The point till stands mate, people see different things. Just because it does not bother you who's to say it does not bother other people? See what I'm getting at here?

Also you have yet to see, or are going to see, two different tiers side by side within this new engine so you are in no position to make that call.

Just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it wouldn't matter to say, someone who loves just taking photos. When they get up close they see the gulf in quality, etc.

You starting to see the hypocrisy yet?

 

[Samus]

Like i said.

You initially mocked my position of complaining about two tiers of quality in the past, as if I was being hypocritical, I pointed out why my views obviously differ here. Now you're making it about what other people see?

Make what call? Are you suggesting that if a premium car were placed in the GTS engine it would look as out of place as a standard does in GT6? You don't honestly believe that would be the case, do you? It's not a matter of opinion, the evidence is widespread in terms of the detail and quality in all three model types.

 

[Neomone]

Just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it wouldn't matter to say, someone who loves just taking photos. When they get up close they see the gulf in quality, etc.

What gulf in quality? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Samus]

What gulf in quality? I'm not seeing it.

Indeed. I've acknowledged some premium models are a little sloppy in places and not every one would be immediately ready for PS4 but the vast majority would, they're 500k poly models with insane levels of details. I don't need to post the photos here to illustrate that, we've all seen them.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

What gulf in quality? I'm not seeing it.

You don't see a lot of things so no change here

Indeed. I've acknowledged some premium models are a little sloppy in places and not every one would be immediately ready for PS4 but the vast majority would, they're 500k poly models with insane levels of details. I don't need to post the photos here to illustrate that, we've all seen them.

It does not matter the size of the gap, there is a gap, stonewall fact of the matter. There is where the hypocrisy lies. The gap may be small enough for you, even me to not care but the gap last gen was no problem for many a people and yet every opportunity you got to slam the folk who didn't care, you took it.

Guess what? The quality didn't matter to them yet you and others took it upon yourselves to tell them they were wrong, time and time again when, as we have established here, they were not. Why? because they didn't care about the gap, just like you now.

See the hypocrisy yet? Or do you need more?

 

[Samus]

It does not matter the size of the gap, there is a gap, stonewall fact of the matter.

There is where the hypocrisy lies. The gap may be small enough for you, even me to not care but the gap last gen was no problem for many a people and yet every opportunity you got to slam the folk who didn't care, you took it.

Guess what? The quality didn't matter to them yet you and others took it upon yourselves to tell them they were wrong, time and time again when, as we have established here, they were not. Why? because they didn't care about the gap, just like you now.

See the hypocrisy yet? Or do you need more?

If you don't think there is a difference between not caring about a tiny gap at best and not caring about a much larger one there is obviously no point discussing this further.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Keep dodging that point and walk away Samus, you seem to do that a lot with me for some reason.
Hey, maybe PD do listen to people here after all and did away with any kind two tier system 💡 In which case you got what you wanted after all.

Maybe those hundreds of posts you made on the matter were not a massive waste of time like I originally thought.

 

[ImaRobot]

You don't see a lot of things so no change here



It does not matter the size of the gap, there is a gap, stonewall fact of the matter. There is where the hypocrisy lies. The gap may be small enough for you, even me to not care but the gap last gen was no problem for many a people and yet every opportunity you got to slam the folk who didn't care, you took it.

While there is a gap, they'll definitely feel at home if they were brought over to GTS. While there may be a handful that might not have been as pretty as the rest, they are much more passable than standards by a long shot. I don't think anyone would complain that they're getting more of the premium cars that where readily available, digital photographer or not. Just like there is still people that would still want standards in GT games. Hell, I bet even the people that liked the standards would be happy by getting more premiums. It makes every side happy.

Guess what? The quality didn't matter to them yet you and others took it upon yourselves to tell them they were wrong, time and time again when, as we have established here, they were not. Why? because they didn't care about the gap, just like you now.

See the hypocrisy yet? Or do you need more?

And those that didn't care about the quality also took it upon themselves to tell the others that did, that they where wrong for thinking that as well. Plenty actually went straight to insulting the members that had differing opinions and tried antagonizing them. Much like you're doing. As long as he's not doing that, I'm not sure there's much wrong to be had in his opinion.

For someone trying to make someone out to be the bad guy, you're really only portraying yourself that way.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

While there is a gap, they'll definitely feel at home if they were brought over to GTS. While there may be a handful that might not have been as pretty as the rest, they are much more passable than standards by a long shot. I don't think anyone would complain that they're getting more of the premium cars that where readily available, digital photographer or not. Just like there is still people that would still want standards in GT games.

I never once said that I (me, myself) would be disappointed with that move now did I? Just pointing out the facts, it's exactly the same argument as last gen, just a different gap in quality, but a gap none the less. Fact.

For someone trying to make someone out to be the bad guy, you're really only portraying yourself that way.

Ooooh, bad guy, I like that. 👍

 

[ImaRobot]

I never once said that I (me, myself) would be disappointed with that move now did I? Just pointing out the facts, it's exactly the same argument as last gen, just a different gap in quality, but a gap none the less. Fact.

I never once said you would, either.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

I never once said you would, either.

You're right. Sorry I was on the phone at the same time as reading..

While there is a gap, they'll definitely feel at home if they were brought over to GTS.

With no PBR textures? LOD pops? A lot less polys on edges when up close? May or may not have a UV compatible with the new livery designer? You absolutely sure about that? Would that not be a two tier system all over again?

Like I said I would not care but facts are facts. Like it or not.

 

[ImaRobot]

With no PBR textures? LOD pops? A lot less polys on edges when up close? You absolutely sure about that? Would that not be a two tier system all over again?

Like I said I would not care but facts are facts. Like it or not.

Maybe at home would be the wrong wording on my part, but the vast majority of them still would fit into a game pretty well. They are still greatly modeled in their own right and would look no where near as out of place as standards.

The people that find that standards are acceptable are not going to be complaining, as they are already fine with gaps, and it also seems that the people that find premiums acceptable will be fine with that, as that is what pretty much everyone is already saying. It should please everyone. Where as standards would only please one group of people.

Yes, I am sure about it.

 

[Neomone]

You don't see a lot of things so no change here

I'm sorry, what? Is this just abuse for the sake of abuse? I thought there was an attempt at a discussion here.

There's a difference in quality between GT5P premiums and GT6 premiums, but I wouldn't call it a gulf. It's perceptible if you go looking for it, but it's not a massive deal. Obviously I haven't had a chance to go close up with the GTS models, and they look nicer than GT6 but again it doesn't seem to be a massive step from anything I've seen so far. Certainly GT5P>GT6 and GT6>GTS seem to be relatively tiny steps compared to GT4>GT5P.

So would you like to share this gulf that you can see but I can't?

 

[Samus]

Keep dodging that point and walk away Samus, you seem to do that a lot with me for some reason.
Hey, maybe PD do listen to people here after all and did away with any kind two tier system 💡 In which case you got what you wanted after all.

Maybe those hundreds of posts you made on the matter were not a massive waste of time like I originally thought.

I'm dodging nothing. You're just purposely ignoring that there are differences in the two standpoints.

In reality there was more than two tiers of car quality in GT6. I never advocated the removal of the older, slightly rougher premium models because the difference between them and the better, later models was minor. Nothing on the scale of the standard models.

But feel free to think I'm hypocritical, no skin off my nose.

 

[LM7325]

I hope the tests are fun. I would hate missions 25-34 being called 1 lap mediocrity.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Maybe at home would be the wrong wording on my part

So a two tier system then is it not?

Yes, I am sure about it.

No you're not, because you have not seen it.

It's perceptible if you go looking for it, but it's not a massive deal.

And not a massive deal for the people who didn't see it as one last generation. The whole point of my post, there's a gap regardless.

Also, you have not seen both cars in the same game so you don't know what car AT with its smooth poly transitions and realistic materials with a finely curved edges when up close will look like next to car LOD with its jumps in quality every so many metres, flatter inconsistent lighting on different materials and rougher edges when up close looks like have you? That would be a sizeable gap mate no matter how you look at it.

Also, there is no knowing if the old cars are compatible right out of the gate for use of the livery editor or the damage model for instance. Say they are not, is that not a massive gap now?

I'm dodging nothing. You're just purposely ignoring that there are differences in the two standpoints.

You wanted consistency, you're getting consistency, you should be happy, you're not because you don't see a massive gap, even though you have not seen them both in the same game next to each other (see above) You'rs basically guessing off of two different games screenshots.

 

[ImaRobot]

So a two tier system then is it not?

Yes, never disagreed with the fact. Although, it looks like everyone doesn't mind it. Those that like standards already accept a multi-tier system, and those that are for premiums are... well it's obvious what they accept.

No you're not, because you have not seen it.

So then why try to argue it if it's something we've not seen? You don't have to see a finished product to put faith in it, if people already accept it in past games. It'll likely follow the same trend if it where to happen. I'm sure it would play out great if it did happen, because like I said, those that accept standards already welcome multi-tiered systems, and there are obviously those that are begging for the premiums to return as they are fine as is. If it turns out I'm wrong if/when it happens, then so be it, I'm wrong. Still doesn't mean I can't be sure of my opinion, I'm very confident that it would be fine.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Yes, never disagreed with the fact. Although, it looks like everyone doesn't mind it. Those that like standards already accept a multi-tier system, and those that are for premiums are... well it's obvious what they accept.

No one has seen it in GTS mate, like I said above. Say they did port them over and car B stands out like a sore thumb next to car A, is that the time to care then? Is that the time to say I don't accept this? Which I know they would btw, just on materials and LOD pops alone. I have worked with all these features both old and new, I'm pretty sure the gap might even surprise me when all is combined, I am going to test and I am already expecting a noticeable one.

Then, as I said earlier, hypothetically, say the models are not compatible with the newer features of the game? What then? For example.

You're with your friends, all in matching liveries except you, in your premium car with a plain flat yellow (supposed to be gloss but looks more matte next to the PBR cars) paint job, is that the time to say you don't care for this two tier system?

You see two cars ahead of you go into the wall at equal speed, one drive away looking a mess, the other drives away without a dent, not kill the immersion for ya? Not make you think "well that looked silly"?

Hypothetical I know but all possibilities, you just don't know and I just could not accept without knowing.

So then why try to argue it if it's something we've not seen?

I'll show you the differences with these things in play when I get a bit of time in another engine if you'd like? It's not the same engine but it will be the same results, up to you if either you just don't want to or just don't accept it as a fair comparison.

You don't have to see a finished product to put faith in it, if people already accept it in past games.

See above, hahaha! blind faith is something many of you people here hate is it not? I see it all the time being pointed out.

I'm sure it would play out great if it did happen.

Are you still so sure?


EDIT:

because like I said, those that accept standards already welcome multi-tiered systems

My whole point of my first post was not the people who already accepted the standards, it was the people who didn't and yet think this is vastly different, which it is not. Like I've said, I didn't mind as much as most people and I probably wouldn't now either if they addressed the materials at the very least.