Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[OdeFinn]

Looked to me like you just carried to much speed, misjudged the edge of the track, got the back wheel on the grass and spun. I did enjoy watching you nudge cars out of the way to make a pass. Had a real Nascar feel to it

Being gentle and just staying on my line when opponent decides take tighter line from his earlier and touching my side, trying to give all possible space to him..

And your justification for this is? You clearly have a pretty solid grip (ha!) on exactly what tyres SH are trying to replicate. What information and reasoning did you use to arrive at this conclusion?

Or is this your "educated" opinion?

"You" should listen what Lotus guys says about Evora handling:

I'm happy with my replica results, all what he said is there.

 

[Johnnypenso]

"You" should listen what Lotus guys says about Evora handling:

I'm happy with my replica results, all what he said is there.

"Lift on the throttle slightly to change the attitude of the car just to tighten the line slightly but the car doesn't suddenly break into oversteer". Is that what you mean?

 

[Aphelion]

"Lift on the throttle slightly to change the attitude of the car just to tighten the line slightly but the car doesn't suddenly break into oversteer". Is that what you mean?

Well considering scaff said the car should under-steer in that scenario...

So scaff says it should understeer, lotus says it should "tighten its line", and topgear and GTS says it oversteers.

 

[JDMKING13]

You guys are the professional, I actually love the Evora just got it 2 days ago. It is tricky to drive but once you get it that car is smoother than butter hitting turns. I actually ran a faster time with the Evora than my Evo at the ring, it just takes me a longer time to adjust to the Evora than the Evo. What makes me mad is we have no arcade mode where you can truly get the cars in their stock form. In sports mode the Evora is slower and heavier ughh.

 

[EDK]

Well considering scaff said the car should under-steer in that scenario...

So scaff says it should understeer, lotus says it should "tighten its line", and topgear and GTS says it oversteers.

Right. Watch my vid, turn 4 Laguna Seca tells the story.

 

[ALB123]

I Just watched that video with the Genesis racing against mostly GT-Rs...

Obviously we all can see that if you get in some sticky situations you just drive through other cars without a collision. That's just a "feature" turned on for beta testing, right? That's not how racing is going to be in the finished, retail product, is it?

 

[-Fred-]

So yes understeer is something you should associate with all cars, including Mid Engined ones.

This.

Especially since most of the weight is over the rear axle and thus the weight balance will inevitably go to the back under acceleration, making the front end lighter, which brings in said understeer. We're usually not talking "Front wheel drive econobox with bald tires on a greasy surface with the throttle pinned" levels of understeer, but it will be present nonetheless. Not to mention pretty much every mid-engined car in the world will have tires that are not as wide at the front as they are in the rear, which means a smaller contact patch, and inevitably less grip, which also causes understeer.

It's basic physics, really.

 

[dave2319]

Planting the throttle in an MR in the dry should not induce death.

Mid corner grip actually increases and the general effect is understeer, not oversteer, when you plant it and the car hooks up.

Source: 80+ Race Hours in a 1st gen MR2.

I call shenanigans, no way is that real. I can hear the exhaust and my ears weren't bleeding from the noise of dog gears.

Man gt creators love their dog gears

 

[Imari]

Well considering scaff said the car should under-steer in that scenario...

No he didn't. Read again.

View attachment 642789

So you've got nothing, is what you're saying.

I remember back in GT5 when some enterprising folks actually did some really good work with trying to approximate a skid pan and match tyre types to what real life tyres would do from that. That was awesome, and was a clear and well reasoned approach to trying to quantify what a sports hard might be equivalent to.

Your reasoning is a photo of a tyre, and clips from Fifth Gear and Top Gear. Nice. You sure put a lot of effort into that one, buddy. Nobody said that the Evora can't drift if a skilled driver like Tiff Needell wants to drift it. Simply that the behaviour that it exhibits is too extreme. You know, like when he says that the chassis is underpowered for how good it is? You think that means that actually he feels like he needs more power to really be able to overdrive it easily?

"As usual, when it comes to ultimate handling the Lotus doesn't disappoint" Tiff says. You think that he means that it's really snappy and the back end wants to step out unless you're very cautious? I doubt it.

I mean, interesting stuff if you wanted to buy an Evora but I didn't even see anything relating tyres to an unreleased racing game in there.

Do you even know what it means to actually have a reasoned opinion based on observation and fact, or do you just make up your mind on stuff and then trawl Google for stuff that you think supports it?

 

[PzR Slim]

Interestingly the Evora has an aspect built into its traction control system that negates understeer. Which would leave you to believe that understeer is an issue in this car for the un-seasoned driver.

I Just watched that video with the Genesis racing against mostly GT-Rs...

Obviously we all can see that if you get in some sticky situations you just drive through other cars without a collision. That's just a "feature" turned on for beta testing, right? That's not how racing is going to be in the finished, retail product, is it?

From what people have seen the ghosting only occurs in lobbies with lower level drivers. As the driver level of a lobby increases the ghosting doesn't seem to happen.

 

[GT6champNK_69]

So has anyone still not get this code yet ?

I signed up and I still haven't got it yet. I'm not getting it at all, think I was not qualified or good enough to receive a code. Thanks PDI. Still I have played all their games since GT1.
There are several other members that haven't got their codes, so we are not the only ones.
It's frustrating

 

[Scaff]

Well considering scaff said the car should under-steer in that scenario...

So scaff says it should understeer, lotus says it should "tighten its line", and topgear and GTS says it oversteers.

No I didn't!

I said it should understeer on a constant throttle application.

What I said about a throttle lift was:

"Now depending on the car (and quite a few factors) you may be able to resolve this in two main ways. Either reduce the degree of steering applied and/or reduce the throttle, they both have the same end result, more grip to turn at the front and a reduction in understeer."

So that leaves three possible options for your comment. You didn't actually read my post, you didn't understand my post, or you have deliberately misrepresented my post. I will leave you to explain which it is.

 

[Imari]

Interestingly the Evora has an aspect built into its traction control system that negates understeer. Which would leave you to believe that understeer is an issue in this car for the un-seasoned driver.

The Lotus system will back off the throttle if it detects understeer, but the system can be switched off I believe. It's just like any other traction control/ESP system, it tries not to allow the driver to give inputs that would take the car beyond reasonable limits.

I'm not sure that having a traction control system that does so allows you to read anything into whether understeer is a particular issue for the car. Is braking a particular issue for cars that have ABS? Or is it just a safety feature?

 

[Scaff]

The Lotus system will back off the throttle if it detects understeer, but the system can be switched off I believe. It's just like any other traction control/ESP system, it tries not to allow the driver to give inputs that would take the car beyond reasonable limits.

I'm not sure that having a traction control system that does so allows you to read anything into whether understeer is a particular issue for the car. Is braking a particular issue for cars that have ABS? Or is it just a safety feature?

Most non-sportcars TC systems ignore understeer as it a 'safe' handling trait for road car and driving in the vast majority of situations.

As such it being managed by the Evora's system is an indication of its target market more that it being more or less problematic in terms of understeer for a mid engine car.

 

[PzR Slim]

The Lotus system will back off the throttle if it detects understeer, but the system can be switched off I believe. It's just like any other traction control/ESP system, it tries not to allow the driver to give inputs that would take the car beyond reasonable limits.

I'm not sure that having a traction control system that does so allows you to read anything into whether understeer is a particular issue for the car. Is braking a particular issue for cars that have ABS? Or is it just a safety feature?

From the review I read it appeared to be a very specific implementation of the system to deal with issue. Off course it can be turned off and the reviewer did say that any driver worth their salt wouldn't need it. There was also no mention of a tendency to oversteer, only a sublime balanced driving experience.

 

[jm79]

No he didn't. Read again.

Do you even know what it means to actually have a reasoned opinion based on observation and fact, or do you just make up your mind on stuff and then trawl Google for stuff that you think supports it?

No need to be quite so combative mate. He's just talking about a car's handling.


Also, thanks @Scaff for the techy explanation. That was actually pretty interesting. Could do with learning more of this stuff

And @EDK - that video is ace, looks like great fun Laguna Seca is a favourite of mine - I hope it's in GTS

 

[Imari]

No need to be quite such an ass mate. He's just talking about a car's handling.

He has a history, mate, of talking near complete bollocks about car handling, mate. I think he's earned a little sarcasm and brutal honesty, mate. A spade being a spade and all that, mate.

See above, where his justification for why sports hard is equivalent to a certain real life tyre is a photo and a couple of youtube videos. It's debatable sometimes whether he's just bad at explaining or legitimately doesn't understand, but I think the above is a perfect example of him just pulling stuff out of his bottom.

 

[jm79]

He has a history, mate, of talking near complete bollocks about car handling, mate. I think he's earned a little sarcasm and brutal honesty, mate. A spade being a spade and all that, mate.

See above, where his justification for why sports hard is equivalent to a certain real life tyre is a photo and a couple of youtube videos. It's debatable sometimes whether he's just bad at explaining or legitimately doesn't understand, but I think the above is a perfect example of him just pulling stuff out of his bottom.

Maybe, but when you come across as the same, why is that a useful approach? 'Don't take the bait' would be my unsolicited advice

Anyway, during the discussion I learned something about vehicle dynamics, so it's all good

 

[Aphelion]

No I didn't!

I said it should understeer on a constant throttle application.

What I said about a throttle lift was:

"Now depending on the car (and quite a few factors) you may be able to resolve this in two main ways. Either reduce the degree of steering applied and/or reduce the throttle, they both have the same end result, more grip to turn at the front and a reduction in understeer."

So that leaves three possible options for your comment. You didn't actually read my post, you didn't understand my post, or you have deliberately misrepresented my post. I will leave you to explain which it is.

And your answer is...

I am apparently bad at reading .

 

[Imari]

Maybe, but when you come across as the same, why is that a useful approach? 'Don't take the bait' would be my unsolicited advice

The same as what, mate? I'm not talking complete bollocks about car handling, mate. I'm just pointing out someone else doing it, mate.

Like you said, you enjoyed learning about correct car dynamics. That doesn't happen if people spreading false information go unchallenged. Go back and read some of his past physics posts and see whether you come away educated or baffled.


For those interested in the original GT5 tyre testing, the thread is here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/tire-testing-strange-but-interesting-results.160821/

The tyres have definitely changed some since, and I believe there was at some point established that actually there were various different types of say, sports hard, depending on the car that you were driving.

Evora S: Skidpan 1.13g.
Stock tyres are I believe PZeros.
By GT5 numbers, a Sports Medium or Soft would come close. Not a Sports Hard. I'd probably lean towards the Medium on the basis that the skidpan number came from an S and not an original Evora.
Although assuming that tyre grades have carried across from GT5 to GTS relatively unchanged is a massive assumption and I'm not even suggesting it's the case, but at least it's a good place to start with data and reasoning behind it.

I leave it to you to judge where he pulled ContiSportContacts from. If you pause the Fifth Gear video you can even see the Pirellis.

See? Helping.

 

[EDK]

I call shenanigans, no way is that real. I can hear the exhaust and my ears weren't bleeding from the noise of dog gears.

Man gt creators love their dog gears

Thanks for that, made my Saturday morning.

We've raced with a couple 80's V6 Camaro/Trans Am cars that have dog gear transmissions, they really are freakin' loud. Might have to go find some footage of one to make a video of.........

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Maybe, but when you come across as the same, why is that a useful approach? 'Don't take the bait' would be my unsolicited advice

Anyway, during the discussion I learned something about vehicle dynamics, so it's all good

Oh hey, and my advice would be to not call people names. It's odd you think *that's* acceptable.

 

[TS050]

Got my final car yesterday (Audi TTS).

The shift times are...unnaturally long for something that has a DSG gearbox.

It'd be pretty cool if PD could change the shift speed for the car, and add those "DSG farts" that you usually hear in cars with it equipped.

I just hope PD don't make this a habit. It'd be awful for the full game to come out, and have cars like the GT3 RS take forever to shift gears.

 

[jm79]

Oh hey, and my advice would be to not call people names. It's odd you think *that's* acceptable.

Fair.

I'm just annoyed cos I don't have a beta code haha.

 

[OdeFinn]

The same as what, mate? I'm not talking complete bollocks about car handling, mate. I'm just pointing out someone else doing it, mate.

Like you said, you enjoyed learning about correct car dynamics. That doesn't happen if people spreading false information go unchallenged. Go back and read some of his past physics posts and see whether you come away educated or baffled.


For those interested in the original GT5 tyre testing, the thread is here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/tire-testing-strange-but-interesting-results.160821/

The tyres have definitely changed some since, and I believe there was at some point established that actually there were various different types of say, sports hard, depending on the car that you were driving.

Evora S: Skidpan 1.13g.
Stock tyres are I believe PZeros.
By GT5 numbers, a Sports Medium or Soft would come close. Not a Sports Hard. I'd probably lean towards the Medium on the basis that the skidpan number came from an S and not an original Evora.
Although assuming that tyre grades have carried across from GT5 to GTS relatively unchanged is a massive assumption and I'm not even suggesting it's the case, but at least it's a good place to start with data and reasoning behind it.

I leave it to you to judge where he pulled ContiSportContacts from. If you pause the Fifth Gear video you can even see the Pirellis.

See? Helping.

Exactly, thanks for giving this info, just saying same as my earlier post, SH on Evora isn't close to real grip levels on it, currently GT6 car with same specs as on GTS is having equal grip when it's on one grade lower compound, meaning Evora on GT6 handles same with CS tire, so using your statistics of proper tire testing on polyphony game series it means at you have to have at least Sports Soft compound on GTS Evora to match real-life grip levels.

Thank you.

 

[Imari]

...currently GT6 car with same specs as on GTS is having equal grip when it's on one grade lower compound...

Same as before, how about you provide some justification for this instead of just throwing it out there. And this time I'm not doing your work for you.

Or did you make this up also?

 

[PRO_TOO]

Holy moly... when I read comments from @EDK and @Scaff my head starts to go up in Flames. so much in-depth for me!
Reading all this and learning a lot (thank you guys) my question is: how do other games like AC and PC (PS4 only) handle these situations compared to what you mentioned on this last page regarding GTS??

 

[OdeFinn]

Same as before, how about you provide some justification for this instead of just throwing it out there. And this time I'm not doing your work for you.

Or did you make this up also?

Comparing handling and laptimes.

 

[Scaff]

Holy moly... when I read comments from @EDK and @Scaff my head starts to go up in Flames. so much in-depth for me!
Reading all this and learning a lot (thank you guys) my question is: how do other games like AC and PC (PS4 only) handle these situations compared to what you mentioned on this last page regarding GTS??

Pcars does a reasonable job, certainly better than GTS as it is now.

AC is far better than GTS in this regard, and in terms of road cars better than Pcars as well.

The way in which AC communicates load transfer, particularly under braking and during corner transitions is the benchmark for the PS4 at this time.

 

[jm79]

Pcars does a reasonable job, certainly better than GTS as it is now.

AC is far better than GTS in this regard, and in terms of road cars better than Pcars as well.

The way in which AC communicates load transfer, particularly under braking and during corner transitions is the benchmark for the PS4 at this time.

GT Planet should do a series on this stuff - would be great!