- 3,808
Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion
- Thread starter Formidable
- 47,132 comments
- 4,781,374 views
- 1,820
- Ireland
- turnupdaheat
The traction control bogged you down at the start even though you only had it on for a very short while. Have you tried starting in 2nd gear with TC off? I don't have the Gr.4 Genesis to try it myself but that technique works well with the Corvette. I'm not saying you'll beat the GT-Rs off the line but it may give you a cleaner start.
- 13,895
- Adelaide
- Neomone
God, it's so disheartening to push your skills to the limit while hot lapping, and only seeing red split times. I have a TON of room to improve on Dragon Trail, but I rarely get close to my best lap of 1.44.444 and even then, the top drivers are at 1.38.
A suggestion: if you're practising for a real race then try and aim for perfectly consistent laps half a second or a second off your ultimate hotlap speed. In a real race, you don't want to run at 110% like you do in qualifying, the idea is to put together a set of laps that is fast overall.
You're better served with four 1:45.5s than you are with three 1:44.5s and a 1:57.0 because you spun off pushing too hard. Ultimate hotlap speed is great, but if that's not your forte (cos it sure isn't mine) you can get good results by being more consistent than your rivals. You won't place well in every race, but you'll steal some just because sometimes the fast guys will crash themselves out of contention.
True. Although the ghosting seems inconsistent to me. Sometimes people will ghost right through and then pop out to knock into you. I happens about 30 seconds later in the video, a car ghosts through him but then goes solid on the inside of the corner and he spins himself out again. Again should have left room, but that one is on the game IMO for not giving clear information about when the opponent is solid or not.
Once they're inside you you're safe (oh lordy does that sound wrong) but as long as they're outside I think you've sort of got to treat them as solid. Or would it be better to call them hard? Everyone is hard until they slip inside you?
Hang on, I need another beer...
Dan
Premium
- 15,396
- United States
I see what you mean, and it really helps. I still struggle with consistency* but I suppose I'm getting better. In all fairness, this is my first day actually practicing on Dragon Trail, with about 50 laps total, compared to several hundred over the years on the Nurburgring in GT5, GT6, and now in GTS.
* "The only consistent thing about me is that I'm inconsistent! Har har har..."
To be completely honest, I don't blame you. Those kerbs are massive and they're on the fastest racing line.
- 470
- Paradise
- Ship_Monster
And what of the rest of the field I passed just fine without contact? I understand that's how it looks to you but trust me that wasn't the case. I was steering away from the guy trying to give him room, due to his need to bump me multiple times it caused my car to wobble as I was trying to pull away from him, then he turned into me purposefully. If you watched the rest of the video I would hope you'd realize that the statement above is wholly inaccurate. At the 35 sec mark I was bumped from the inside and that sent me into him coming out of that corner. I gave him space then as well.
But even if I was squeezing him, normal in real world racing, that doesn't give him the right to spin me.
- 1,433
- Northern Ireland
- 470
- Paradise
- Ship_Monster
I'll give it a try tonight, the TCS trick worked with the Alfa's. But it seems that in GTS all cars are created equal but some more equal than others....
- 1,820
- Ireland
- turnupdaheat
Yeah PD's attempt to create cars of matching performance reminds me of the old Hanson song, ImmmBOP
- 13,895
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Just because you passed other people cleanly doesn't mean that any incident is automatically the other guys fault.
He didn't spin you as far as I could tell. The two of you came together, in a manner which you admit was partly due to the movement of your car (albeit from a bump you had received elsewhere). It's the first lap and it's pack racing with a bunch of cars, this stuff happens and expecting corners to be totally clean in that environment is just silly. You have to allow for the fact that if it's not you that has contact, someone else will.
It so happened that it was the rear of your car that touched the front of his and you spun. He absolutely has the right to hold his line. You're welcome to squeeze him, but if that results in you knocking the rear of your car against his front bumper I don't see that he's under any obligation to do anything about it.
You make it sound like he intentionally ran you off the road, which is not what I saw in the two incidents I watched before I gave it up as a bad job because you seemed like the standard salty online racer who thinks that any incident is never their fault.
At worst, the first contact is a racing incident that you happened to come off second best. The second is you getting screwed by Polyphony's silly ghost system. The rest of the race was remarkably clean, and I didn't see anything worthy of complaint. There were a couple of weird instances where other people ghosted through each other, but nothing involving you.
If you think that the incidents at 50s or 1.10 are examples of excessively aggressive racing you're wrong. That race is about as good as anyone can expect online. Or in real life, probably. As a racer, sometimes you just have to grow a pair and admit that the dice didn't roll your way.
- 470
- Paradise
- Ship_Monster
- 982
I believe you. You were driving clean throughout it all, bar a couple of instances where I would say you held the racing line a bit too aggressively but considering most of your opponents, fair enough. Good race.
- 16,271
- Boise, ID
- GTP_EDK
- 16,271
- Boise, ID
- GTP_EDK
- 16,271
- Boise, ID
- GTP_EDK
Hmm, in context in the sense that I am comparing reality physics to game physics. As in what would really happen vs. what happens on the game. Understand that they are not the same car, but this is a stripped and caged sub 2,000 lb. MR2 and we've run it with up to 160 BHP.Out of context..
You have raced only 80+ hours, then I understand why you do it on normal street tires.
80+ hours is actually quite a lot of track experience in wheel to wheel racing for an amateur.
But we run 180-200 treadwear street tires, as required by the series.
That video was on these.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,625
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
EDK put it as well as I could. The handling balance of the car is totally out, it fundamentaly breaks the laws of physics as the apply to vehicle dynamics.
On a constant radius corner gradual throttle application in an MR should lead to understeer that can be transitioned to oversteer. Not straight to oversteer and certainly not to the degree that it does in GTS.
Bingo.
As opposed to you?Out of context..
You have raced only 80+ hours, then I understand why you do it on normal street tires.
- 423
- United States
- wheelmansteve
Apologies to anyone in the N300 Ring event- particularly the guy in the white Evora. I tried to run the Megane- bad idea. Dropped out so not to cause any more chaos. Still not happy with the steering response and feedback. Really mushy and slow, makes it difficult to run hard. Really hope PD are working on this- I have a G29 and it's brilliant in pCars and GT6.
- 2,643
- Finland
- OdeFinn
Exactly what that car tends to do, you just assume at I let it push (understeer) when I don't want, check end of first lap where I missed my mass transfer, it pushed (understeer) left side wheels to grass on last corner, that was my biggest mistake on mass transfer, or b better to say lack of mass transfer.
Sarcasm, GTS sports hards aren't trying to pretend those tires grip level what @EDK uses on his car, SH is lot crappier.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,625
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
I don't assume anything and I'm not basing it on your video, I'm basing it on my experience with the Evora in GTS, my understanding of vehicle dynamics (which I have taught) and my experience of driving MR cars on road and track (including a number of Lotus' models including the original Evora).Exactly what that car tends to do, you just assume at I let it push (understeer) when I don't want, check end of first lap where I missed my mass transfer, it pushed (understeer) left side wheels to grass on last corner, that was my biggest mistake on mass transfer, or b better to say lack of mass transfer.
The Evora in GTS does not come even close to the degree of understeer it should do.
Citation required.
Not that it would explain magically missing understeer and a sudden love of oversteer, changing tyre compounds doesn't change fundamental physics; it changes when it happens, not what happens.
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- 16,412
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,625
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Why?
I've driven plenty and they all understeer.
In fact pretty much all cars understeer, its rather basic vehicle dynamics.
A car accelerating and turning will shift load to the rear, that will increase load and therefore grip at the rear and reduce load and therefore grip at the front. Result = Understeer.
Now the degree of understeer will vary from car to car, with the two main factors being the initial load over the front (more = less understeer and less = more understeer) and which end is driven (front = more work for the tyres and more oversteer).
Now depending on the car (and quite a few factors) you may be able to resolve this in two main ways. Either reduce the degree of steering applied and/or reduce the throttle, they both have the same end result, more grip to turn at the front and a reduction in understeer.
Now you can also (assuming the car is RWD) apply more throttle and if you have sufficient torque to get the rear tyres to a greater yaw rate than the front tyres you will transition to oversteer. However the Evora in question is not a powerhouse (current hot-hatches have more grunt - hell my Volvo produces more torque) and as such this should not be possible outside of 1st or 2nd and certainly not with TC switched on. Nor is this always the best option when going for out and out lap times, as you have to deal with both under and oversteer, all of which are working the tyres less effectively. Its almost always quicker to reduce understeer and get the tyres back to an optimum workload as quickly as possible. A place which occurs just as the tyres start to exceed the peak slip angle and self aligning torque has reduced.
So yes understeer is something you should associate with all cars, including Mid Engined ones.
Now the advantage on track of a MR is that is has a lower PMI than other layouts and will be less resistant to changes in direction, this can actually increase the speed and rate at which understeer will develop in the situation above, but it will also increase the speed and rate at which you can reduce it in the situations above. Making it highly adjustable, however it will also increase the speed and rate at which it will oversteer if you do something daft like lift off the throttle rapidly to try and fix understeer.
Its often confused that because the lower PMI makes a car react to direction changes more readily, that means its going to want to oversteer all the time, which is simply not the case. Its still bound by the four bits of rubber in each corner, the yaw rates they have, the load they have and the lat, long and rotational forces being applied to them that creates those yaw rates (and a lot of other factors due to rubber being really, really wierd stuff).
What GTS is allowing the Evora to do in power on oversteer with a moderate throttle application, with no noticeable understeer, in 4th and 5th gear, with TC switched on.
That's wrong.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Looked to me like you just carried to much speed, misjudged the edge of the track, got the back wheel on the grass and spun. I did enjoy watching you nudge cars out of the way to make a pass. Had a real Nascar feel to itExactly what that car tends to do, you just assume at I let it push (understeer) when I don't want, check end of first lap where I missed my mass transfer, it pushed (understeer) left side wheels to grass on last corner, that was my biggest mistake on mass transfer, or b better to say lack of mass transfer.
Sarcasm, GTS sports hards aren't trying to pretend those tires grip level what @EDK uses on his car, SH is lot crappier.
