Group 3 BoP Testing
- Thread starter Tidgney
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- Planet Earth
- silz616
You're crazy fast and consistent in the 458
I can't help but have at least 1 hiccup in a race. It makes me 
lol
PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,460
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- PirovacBoy
Haha thx Buddy, you know, I always compare the 458 with a beautiful Diva. At first you think she‘s a Widow Maker a Man Eater never knowing her next move, unpredictable. But once you get what she wants from you how she wants to be treated, she‘ll reward you with all her LoveYou're crazy fast and consistent in the 458
- 6,753
- Fürstentum Lippe
- GTP_Nuschel
And then still kick your assHaha thx Buddy, you know, I always compare the 458 with a beautiful Diva. At first you think she‘s a Widow Maker a Man Eater never knowing her next move, unpredictable. But once you get what she wants from you how she wants to be treated, she‘ll reward you with all her Love
- 786
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This is great work, but I have to ask...
Unless PD use it to adjust BoP, is it helping the community or hurting it? Once empirical data on which cars are the fastest on average, won't that end up with darn near one make races as most pick the fastest/easiest? Previous GT's always had their PP heavy hitters, and to be competitive in a race where some good drivers picked the over-performing car, you were pretty much forced to also choose it if you wanted a crack at the podium... 111R's, 365GTB's, M4's etc... It made for some dull multi-manufacturer racing (good for one makes though, if you were picking cars everyone drove fast, easiest!).
Plus, it also strikes me, if PD introduce yet another BoP tweak, won't you be forced to repeat ALL your work every time they do (PD are often a little opaque when it comes to detailing ALL they did in updates!)? That seems like an uphill task...
It often seems that PD's BoP system bears little relationship to actual play-testing by competent drivers. They are certainly very secretive about who does the work, how they test, and actual lap figures so you can see if they are up there with the best of us or simply hacks. I wish PD would finally engage publicly with their player base, and be a little less inscrutable. Once upon a time they had the field pretty much to themselves, but those days have departed. Other games communicate with the players, the devs for each department will answer questions about decisions, and verified examples taken into account.
If PD want to take the FIA mantle seriously, and make BoP less capricious, they need to do what the FIA does: TEST THE CARS WITH GREAT CONSISTENT DRIVERS!
Does anyone currently think they do?
I wish Tidgney's work was part of a coordinated effort by PD to finally get to grips (ha!) with proper BoP study. After all, what would it cost them? Tidge is doing this for free, and so would many others. Play-testing is, in the end, the only way to create a level playing field. And a level playing field is what creates great racing, which finally seems to be PD's goal, rather than the huge sandbox that was GT5/6, with egregious PP imbalances that remained unfixed over several games.
Unless PD use it to adjust BoP, is it helping the community or hurting it? Once empirical data on which cars are the fastest on average, won't that end up with darn near one make races as most pick the fastest/easiest? Previous GT's always had their PP heavy hitters, and to be competitive in a race where some good drivers picked the over-performing car, you were pretty much forced to also choose it if you wanted a crack at the podium... 111R's, 365GTB's, M4's etc... It made for some dull multi-manufacturer racing (good for one makes though, if you were picking cars everyone drove fast, easiest!).
Plus, it also strikes me, if PD introduce yet another BoP tweak, won't you be forced to repeat ALL your work every time they do (PD are often a little opaque when it comes to detailing ALL they did in updates!)? That seems like an uphill task...
It often seems that PD's BoP system bears little relationship to actual play-testing by competent drivers. They are certainly very secretive about who does the work, how they test, and actual lap figures so you can see if they are up there with the best of us or simply hacks. I wish PD would finally engage publicly with their player base, and be a little less inscrutable. Once upon a time they had the field pretty much to themselves, but those days have departed. Other games communicate with the players, the devs for each department will answer questions about decisions, and verified examples taken into account.
If PD want to take the FIA mantle seriously, and make BoP less capricious, they need to do what the FIA does: TEST THE CARS WITH GREAT CONSISTENT DRIVERS!
Does anyone currently think they do?
I wish Tidgney's work was part of a coordinated effort by PD to finally get to grips (ha!) with proper BoP study. After all, what would it cost them? Tidge is doing this for free, and so would many others. Play-testing is, in the end, the only way to create a level playing field. And a level playing field is what creates great racing, which finally seems to be PD's goal, rather than the huge sandbox that was GT5/6, with egregious PP imbalances that remained unfixed over several games.
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- 159
- Vix ES Brasil
- Sofia_Speed
Thank you for this and all the other videos!!
I actually learn a lot with your tutorial videos for GTS and PC2
Can’t wait for the test results!
As for the Ferrari.... I do like her, I had some good times in Brands Hatch and Interlagos, it’s a good car for qualifying and short races but not consistent in longer races.
I had a top 10 time with her on Dragon Trail and won a bunch of races there last month.
But definitely have to chave the B.B. as 0zero is undrivable.
Porsche is my first choice for longer races.
Another car in the bucket is the Z4, I love this car in Brands Hatch or Yamagiwa but not as good on other tracks...
I actually learn a lot with your tutorial videos for GTS and PC2
Can’t wait for the test results!
As for the Ferrari.... I do like her, I had some good times in Brands Hatch and Interlagos, it’s a good car for qualifying and short races but not consistent in longer races.
I had a top 10 time with her on Dragon Trail and won a bunch of races there last month.
But definitely have to chave the B.B. as 0zero is undrivable.
Porsche is my first choice for longer races.
Another car in the bucket is the Z4, I love this car in Brands Hatch or Yamagiwa but not as good on other tracks...
Hey everyone,
So, ever since the big BoP change a few patches ago I've personally not been overly happy in terms of the balance of performance so I wanted to see if my thoughts were justified! So what I've decided to do is test each and every group 3 car at 5 different tracks. Originally it was going to be 6 but I'm not consistent enough at Bathurst yet and I believe Interlagos and brands hatch respectively cover Bathurst quite well in terms of undulations. Here's a video explaining how the test will work;
If you don't want to watch the video the 5 tracks and the reasons behind them are;
- Brands Hatch GP: Downforce Track, Undulations, Use of Kerbs
- Dragon Trail: Very Kerb heavy, Very fast track, Not hugely technical, 1 Key corner for stability
- Interlagos: Large amount of Undulations, Use of Kerbs, Acceleration up the hill
- Nurburgring GP: Balanced Track, Technical sections, Long Straights, Chicane Stability tested
All 5 tracks I'm very consistent at usually so it should give a balanced test. I want to capture the speed at a given point which currently is at the cones before 130R however I'm still reviewing this. I keep hold of ALL the test sessions so I can revisit any one of the pieces of video footage to change this if required. My aim at the end of the test is to see which cars are the strongest and which are the weakest across the 5 tracks. In my personal opinion I believe there should be 5/6 if not 10 cars all very close at each of the given tracks and that the gap across all cars at all of the tracks shouldn't really be over 1-2 seconds. Some cars will be stronger at some tracks than others and those at the bottom end and potentially at the top we will commit to new BoP changes and see if we can bring the field closer together.
- Suzuka: Balanced Track, Technical Sections, Long Straights, No Kerb Abuse, Very trail braking dependant
Here is the current standings of the test;
Just to explain the spreadsheet a little;
Now each test takes me about 2 hours. I also keep the video footage so I have to render each of these (I also record the best lap replay) which takes me another 3 hours. I then have to edit the actual car profile video which takes at least another hour and then upload the video which takes about 3-4 hours due to my internet upload speed. So do bear with me with this as I also work and I am trying to compete at the same time as well! I'm hoping for at least 2 car profiles a week.
- Risk Indicator: How risky is the car to drive and also the ability to catch it. Higher the number the higher the risk (1-10). It's in my personal opinion that a riskier car should be slightly faster as you will be less consistent in the car.
- Suzuka Top Speed: Currently based at 130R, it's to test acceleration and top end at that point. A car with a higher top end speed may be harder to overtake and therefore if also very quick at tracks may need a penalty.
- Current BoP: This is on due to the fact a patch could arrive at any moment so this is the Balance of Performance at the time of the test. Please note that this is the Circuit BoP and not the Oval BoP which are different!
- Rec. BoP: If we decide to change a BoP on a car after the initial tests this will be our recommended BoP.
- Current: Is literally the current BoP time.
- Change: Is the new time based on a new BoP.
- Total Current Time: Total of all the current times.
- Total Change Time: Total of all the changed BoP times.
Lap Times/Lap Count
Lap times are not just the fastest lap that I do in that given session it's actually based on the optimal. This is because I could be there all day going for the fastest lap and that could be a 1 in 10 chance. Instead getting a 1 in 10 chance in each of the sectors on different laps is much easier and should actually give us a more accurate test. Yes occasionally you may blitz a sector on 1 track but that's a factor that will always happen in any testing which is why we've picked 5 tracks to reduce this happening.
I also do a minimum of 10 laps, and may go to 11 or 12 if I feel I'm missing a big bulk of time due to a mistake. You can always go faster on a lap so I'm not after the ultimate pace but to be on fairly quick laps to judge where a car is.
Car Profiles:
Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbG5l8Fs0KOa1Jm5Fz-61fK-WGBbeVXt7
- Alfa Romeo 4c Gr3
- Aston Martin V12 Vantage Gr3
- Audi R8 LMS Gr3
- Lexus RC F GT3 Prototype Gr3
- Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution Final Edition Gr3
- Porsche 911 RSR Gr3
FAQ
Why are you doing car profiles?
There's more to just a BoP test with each car as they each have their own characteristics. A prime example are the 2 cars already completed. Alfa is MR and Aston is FR and drive very differently and perform differently at each track. I figured it would be best to explain what causes some of the issues with each of the cars.
Why not look at fuel?
The problem with looking at fuel which is another area of testing that is probably required is that you have to do the entire car list all in 1 go. If a patch comes in that changes the usage of fuel it effectively ruins the test as we can't actually enter how much fuel a given car should use.
Why not Group 4?
Group 4 might be looked at in the future, group 3 is my favoured car category so I will continue to work on this currently.
What do you hope to accomplish from this?
Personally I like to know which cars are strong and which are weak. I could do this test in private and not tell a soul but I'm a big advocate of fair and clean racing. To me the fairest way to race is to give out this information and let people then choose which car is right for them. I've also no idea how GT Staff do the BoP testing internally and I know for example some companies aren't allowed to BoP cars without the manufacturers authorisation (I'm assuming this is why when the RCZ and 911 were relatively equal the RCZ got a massive nerf and the 911 got a tiny one). You also never know who reads these forums so GT may look at this thread and just keep an eye on it and BoP accordingly to it? Who knows, I just think it's a good way to identify strong/weak cars and hopefully contribute to a better GT Sport experience!
If you feel I'm doing something wrong or would like something adding to this let me know. In addition I do take requests to bump a car up the list and I've had one today so the Lexus will be in fact coming very soon!
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Tidgney
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Hey Guys ,
Ferrari video is up, the crazy, crazy Ferrari! The hardest car I've certainly driven to date in these tests! Nissan is next which should be Friday/Saturday. Enjoy!
Cheers Wardez, and nice to see you post in here, it's been a fair old while since I've raced with you! I'm a secret fan of McLaren but I've never driven it so I'm definitely interested!
Definitely the hardest car I've driven so far, it's way up there just due to the understeer & oversteer it has, normally a car experiences one but not both and in abundance to!
The thing is everyone will always migrate to the fastest car anyway irrespective of if I did this or not... we saw that when the Porsche was reigning supreme! I tried the RCZ and that was just as quick at the time and then more and more jumped onto the RCZ before the nerf, which is my initial reason for doing this as I didn't feel a massive nerf to the RCZ was worthwhile when the Porsche didn't get hit half as much. In fact we have a big problem at the moment with fuel usage which kind of makes this whole test pointless as the Porsche is top at the moment but heck it's definitely not top in terms of fuel (I'm praying they remove this fuel usage for sprint races...).
Will PD see this thread? Probably not... I can however point them to it as I have a couple of contacts and if they want to action on it that's up to them. The idea is to get the information out there then people can make their own decisions what they want or don't want to drive. My goal/dream and I've said this to someone working at SMS (PCars 2) to (In fact a couple their) would be a game I can play and have the most varied and balanced field possible... I'm not so bothered if their HP matches their real life counterparts because sim racing can't simulate everything!
One thing this test is good for though is imagine you're running a championship you can literally look at this and decide quickly what to do! What you can also do as I mentioned in the first thread is we can adjust the BoP accordingly. So if a car gets a buff or nerf we can retest it and put it here or it could get a nerf and we could nerf it further to see whether we can get it closer. Definitely not a waste of time, I'm certainly learning a lot during this test as I imagine a few other people are... or at least hoping they are.
I actually drove the Huracan in the first season of the manufacturers
! While it was a bit... er... spinny I did get used to it but I remember it being a right handful! Especially with kerbs haha!
Thanks for the compliments. Glad the tutorials help, and I'll finally have another track guide out this week I hope ! Ferrari will be hugely driving style based I think, definitely doesn't suit my driving style at least 
, and I definitely don't want to drive it again in it's current form haha!
,Ferrari video is up, the crazy, crazy Ferrari! The hardest car I've certainly driven to date in these tests! Nissan is next which should be Friday/Saturday
. Enjoy!
Great stuff. Looking forward to your take on the McLaren 650S Gr. 3 [GT3, Gr3, Gr.3]. It seems no one has a conclusive take on it. It seems to be a car that isn't strongest in any one area, it's just decently quick across a large range of tracks. Maybe its advantage is that while it may be a few tenths down off the time of the best car for a particular track, it doesn't stray much further than that no matter what the car and track combo is? Just a theory.
I think it's better on fuel mileage though, its big tick against it is its eating up of the rear tires though. I'm thinking going aggressively with the brake bias and sending it forward all the way could combat that? Anyway, in terms of personality, it's a fun one to drive. Nervous enough under heavy braking, has a very solid front end, doesn't mind kerbs too much. it "feels" quite fast even if the times don't always agree. It also has a different feeling transmission to most other cars, I find myself using lower gears more effectively in it than other Gr.3 machinery.
I love its low stance as well. Thanks for putting these together @Tidgney
Cheers Wardez, and nice to see you post in here, it's been a fair old while since I've raced with you! I'm a secret fan of McLaren but I've never driven it so I'm definitely interested!
Definitely the hardest car I've driven so far, it's way up there just due to the understeer & oversteer it has, normally a car experiences one but not both and in abundance to!
The thing is everyone will always migrate to the fastest car anyway irrespective of if I did this or not... we saw that when the Porsche was reigning supreme! I tried the RCZ and that was just as quick at the time and then more and more jumped onto the RCZ before the nerf, which is my initial reason for doing this as I didn't feel a massive nerf to the RCZ was worthwhile when the Porsche didn't get hit half as much. In fact we have a big problem at the moment with fuel usage which kind of makes this whole test pointless as the Porsche is top at the moment but heck it's definitely not top in terms of fuel (I'm praying they remove this fuel usage for sprint races...).
Will PD see this thread? Probably not... I can however point them to it as I have a couple of contacts and if they want to action on it that's up to them. The idea is to get the information out there then people can make their own decisions what they want or don't want to drive. My goal/dream and I've said this to someone working at SMS (PCars 2) to (In fact a couple their) would be a game I can play and have the most varied and balanced field possible... I'm not so bothered if their HP matches their real life counterparts because sim racing can't simulate everything!
One thing this test is good for though is imagine you're running a championship you can literally look at this and decide quickly what to do! What you can also do as I mentioned in the first thread is we can adjust the BoP accordingly. So if a car gets a buff or nerf we can retest it and put it here or it could get a nerf and we could nerf it further to see whether we can get it closer. Definitely not a waste of time, I'm certainly learning a lot during this test as I imagine a few other people are... or at least hoping they are
.I actually drove the Huracan in the first season of the manufacturers
! While it was a bit... er... spinny I did get used to it but I remember it being a right handful! Especially with kerbs haha!Thanks for the compliments
. Glad the tutorials help, and I'll finally have another track guide out this week I hope ! Ferrari will be hugely driving style based I think, definitely doesn't suit my driving style at least , and I definitely don't want to drive it again in it's current form haha!
PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,460
- Cologne/Germany
- PirovacBoy
Hey Guys
Ferrari video is up, the crazy, crazy Ferrari! The hardest car I've certainly driven to date in these tests! Nissan is next which should be Friday/Saturday
Cheers Wardez, and nice to see you post in here, it's been a fair old while since I've raced with you! I'm a secret fan of McLaren but I've never driven it so I'm definitely interested!
Definitely the hardest car I've driven so far, it's way up there just due to the understeer & oversteer it has, normally a car experiences one but not both and in abundance to!
The thing is everyone will always migrate to the fastest car anyway irrespective of if I did this or not... we saw that when the Porsche was reigning supreme! I tried the RCZ and that was just as quick at the time and then more and more jumped onto the RCZ before the nerf, which is my initial reason for doing this as I didn't feel a massive nerf to the RCZ was worthwhile when the Porsche didn't get hit half as much. In fact we have a big problem at the moment with fuel usage which kind of makes this whole test pointless as the Porsche is top at the moment but heck it's definitely not top in terms of fuel (I'm praying they remove this fuel usage for sprint races...).
Will PD see this thread? Probably not... I can however point them to it as I have a couple of contacts and if they want to action on it that's up to them. The idea is to get the information out there then people can make their own decisions what they want or don't want to drive. My goal/dream and I've said this to someone working at SMS (PCars 2) to (In fact a couple their) would be a game I can play and have the most varied and balanced field possible... I'm not so bothered if their HP matches their real life counterparts because sim racing can't simulate everything!
One thing this test is good for though is imagine you're running a championship you can literally look at this and decide quickly what to do! What you can also do as I mentioned in the first thread is we can adjust the BoP accordingly. So if a car gets a buff or nerf we can retest it and put it here or it could get a nerf and we could nerf it further to see whether we can get it closer. Definitely not a waste of time, I'm certainly learning a lot during this test as I imagine a few other people are... or at least hoping they are
I actually drove the Huracan in the first season of the manufacturers
Thanks for the compliments
Great Video Review Tidgney, i really enjoyed watching that crazy ride. I fully agree on your opinion regarding the 458. Big Thumbs up for testing that Italian Stallion.
- 36
- Australia
Just a quick note to say Thank You - this data will be very useful.
- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
I see no Mercedes at all in your testing list... nor the Beetle... anything against those??
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Give the man chance... he's running over 5 tracks, 10+ laps each... and producing videos... that all takes a decent amount of time.
- 1,373
- Serbia
- Warlock__SRB
Yeap, they are BoP to NASCAR lol...They do?
- 962
- Phoenix Az.
- HuddyBob
@Tidgney ... an honest question here...
When testing these cars, do you change your driving style much, lots?
I am wondering how much of this is related to driving style, because, "I" am faster in the Aston than the 911, yet your testing shows them literally at opposite ends of the spectrum.
I cannot help but wonder how much of this is effected by, or, identifying, cars that suit a style... possibly as much as the actual performance of the car?
Having said/asked all that, it's worth noting I am nowhere near Dr.S pace driver, and likely never will be, but when driving the Aston I have to literally change my driving behavior vs driving the 911... which, makes me choose the 911 because it is is a no brainier for me, it just does what I want it to... it suits me, if you will... yet I'm faster in the Aston, if I drive it the way it wants to be driven...
Does any of that make sense?
Really interested in hearing your thoughts on the above.
BTW, love your updates and looking forward to more.
When testing these cars, do you change your driving style much, lots?
I am wondering how much of this is related to driving style, because, "I" am faster in the Aston than the 911, yet your testing shows them literally at opposite ends of the spectrum.
I cannot help but wonder how much of this is effected by, or, identifying, cars that suit a style... possibly as much as the actual performance of the car?
Having said/asked all that, it's worth noting I am nowhere near Dr.S pace driver, and likely never will be, but when driving the Aston I have to literally change my driving behavior vs driving the 911... which, makes me choose the 911 because it is is a no brainier for me, it just does what I want it to... it suits me, if you will... yet I'm faster in the Aston, if I drive it the way it wants to be driven...
Does any of that make sense?
Really interested in hearing your thoughts on the above.
BTW, love your updates and looking forward to more.
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This is a great resource thanks for putting all of this work in.
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Tidgney
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- LZR_Tidgney
Thanks for the kind compliments guys, much appreciated! Reading the comments on both Youtube and in the post at least gives me a bit of relief that it definitely is the car! Was worried I'd suddenly forgotten how to play briefly a bit like in Space Jam haha!
Cheers Stotty
. Mirror_man it's all in the post but if you want something bumping up the list just let me know. In addition to the current bump list an AMG is on there now and also the Citroen .It honestly depends on the car, so for example with the Aston Martin that does suit my driving style more than this Ferrari or Porsche for example and as you'll see in most of my videos I'm more of an average speed through a corner kind of person rather than aggressive in, aggressive out. The Aston favours that type of driving style due to the engine layout where as the Porsche is more suited to aggression. The Ferrari... well that was more just tweaking it so I could get consistent and at least be able to push sectors when I could (Does favour aggression though). My driving style changes slightly on a car if I can push harder, so the Porsche allows you to go that bit more aggressive (Dragon trail is the best example of this at the end of Sector 2) but my driving style generally stays the same minus tweaks depending on the cars personality.
While driving style can have an impact and will have an impact on this test it's not significant enough in my mind to cause problems. We're after the big gaps in performance rather than the tiny ones so the 911 being so far ahead of the Aston suggests either a big buff for Aston or a nerf for 911 and that gap is not just driving style. Driving style would literally be 1 or 2 tenths, and that potentially could be across all tracks not just 1. The Ferrari is a good example where my driving style may not suit it so potentially it should be higher than it's current position but only by 1/2 tenths. It's also why we go for optimum here rather than fastest lap as sometimes you will get to aggressive or not be enough and get some strange sector improvement
!Glad you're liking this though, and thanks for the question as that's a really interesting topic with this
!It's not my place really to question their work or their colleagues work especially in terms of contacting them to say 'WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS?'. Which is why I'm doing this test, at least we can build up a summary/picture of the situation and be able to make our own judgements. I'll certainly try get them to have a look at the thread and maybe they can use at least part of it. That's why the community, and in particular GT Planet is really good because through community work (Like the grip bug a few patches ago) the game can be made better in a pleasant way
!
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- 962
- Phoenix Az.
- HuddyBob
Thank you!It honestly depends on the car, so for example with the Aston Martin that does suit my driving style more than this Ferrari or Porsche for example and as you'll see in most of my videos I'm more of an average speed through a corner kind of person rather than aggressive in, aggressive out. The Aston favours that type of driving style due to the engine layout where as the Porsche is more suited to aggression. The Ferrari... well that was more just tweaking it so I could get consistent and at least be able to push sectors when I could (Does favour aggression though). My driving style changes slightly on a car if I can push harder, so the Porsche allows you to go that bit more aggressive (Dragon trail is the best example of this at the end of Sector 2) but my driving style generally stays the same minus tweaks depending on the cars personality.
While driving style can have an impact and will have an impact on this test it's not significant enough in my mind to cause problems. We're after the big gaps in performance rather than the tiny ones so the 911 being so far ahead of the Aston suggests either a big buff for Aston or a nerf for 911 and that gap is not just driving style. Driving style would literally be 1 or 2 tenths, and that potentially could be across all tracks not just 1. The Ferrari is a good example where my driving style may not suit it so potentially it should be higher than it's current position but only by 1/2 tenths. It's also why we go for optimum here rather than fastest lap as sometimes you will get to aggressive or not be enough and get some strange sector improvement
Glad you're liking this though, and thanks for the question as that's a really interesting topic with this
I had hoped you would take the question seriously, rather than be offended, and, much to my pleasure, you have responded with honesty and a true feel of a mental back check.
It is much appreciated.
I'm guessing, if I had your skills, possibly I would run harder in the 991 than the Aston, but, possibly, when I really bear down and concentrate, the Aston in some way covers up my short comings as a driver... even if the 991 feels better... I guess it's for a reason... your testing points to that.
Guess I'd better start pushing the 991 and concentrating as hard as I do when running the Aston.
Arg...
- 155
- United States
Hey Guys
Ferrari video is up, the crazy, crazy Ferrari! The hardest car I've certainly driven to date in these tests! Nissan is next which should be Friday/Saturday
I thought it was just me and my lack of skills, but it seems like the Ferrari is the "Eleanor" in Gone in 60 Seconds. Every time I attempt to drive her, I have to talk to her and ask her to treat me nicely......and she usually doesn't.
Tidgney
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Takes a lot to get me offended
, being ginger and all that haha! No but seriously I understood what you meant and could openly answer honestly which I'd do for anything to be fair, it's why some people hate my wheel review because I'm honest. But back to the 911 you nailed it really you can try push the 911 harder but that's when skills will get pushed more to the limit so you'll find cars that require less aggression potentially can be faster for guys in lower brackets than the 911 because of skill level differences. I suppose that's why I'd recommend the Lexus as one of the go to cars for the majority at the moment out of the ones I've tested .What a quality film, definitely an Eleanor
! Got to really listen to her to try keep her on form .
AshenGraey
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- Canada
- AshenGraey
Really great stuff man, really well done!! I'm definitely following this. Might I suggest a review on the M6 and perhaps at a much later time the NSX as well? The latter is not a car I see people use at all, if ever (probably for good reason ) but I'd like to get your take on it.
) but I'd like to get your take on it.
- 962
- Phoenix Az.
- HuddyBob
So, I'm honestly trying to learn from all this, at first i was simply focusing on the cars, but, the last couple exchanges have me now focusing on me.
The Aston is a risk factor 8... 991 is a 5. ... I'm faster in the Aston, but to me both are a little scary when putting the power down.
Now, I tend to be a "rag it through the corner" (aka, lower rev's) kinda guy and go early yet easy on the throttle coming out... This "style" (if you will) also rewards a smooth deliberate corner entry (which often sets me up to be passed, DOH!) but the mid corner and exit are so strong I rarely have to worry about cars behind... of course until the next corner... double-arg... I found the Aston had better turn in... but was more scary on exit than the 991... You've noted the 991 really needs to scream to keep it awake, and, again... I'm driving it all wrong into, through and exiting corners...
Hmmm.
I'm thinking this is all pointing to me not being the one to change driving styles to better suit cars... vs my initial question.
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- PD_ApexPredator
It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they run BoP tests using AI, given the recent news about Kaz & his lecture at Stanford university on AI Racing leagues, and PDs history of AI programming (B-Spec etc).
They can bang in thousands of 100% consistent laps using AI, and just have a good test driver hop on to give feedback on the car, the way Tidgney does such a good job of doing
Tidgney
Premium
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- LZR_Tidgney
Really great stuff man, really well done!! I'm definitely following this. Might I suggest a review on the M6 and perhaps at a much later time the NSX as well? The latter is not a car I see people use at all, if ever (probably for good reason
Cheers for the kind words
. The NSX is up quite soon as it was requested earlier on, but I've bumped the M6 up although it'll be a fair few weeks before that makes an appearance!This is the problem with the risk indicator I guess. I'm looking at the risk indicator as how hard is it to get the the limit that I see rather than the limit of each driver and their relevant skill. For example for the Aston to hit it's peak you really have to be on the ball, but the Porsche once you understand it is easier to use and therefore has more stability which is why it got a lower rank. The problem is with the Porsche if you can't understand it or can't use it the way it should be used either because of driving style or driver skill then instantly it becomes a harder car. I try reference this in the comments of the car though which is why that's included on the spreadsheet
. It's why I can only risk indicate on my opinion rather than out, and out facts. The Lancer for example was so easy to understand and drive similar to the Lexus that I could honestly see that being a car usable by all skill levels which is why it has such a low rank.It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they run BoP tests using AI, given the recent news about Kaz & his lecture at Stanford university on AI Racing leagues, and PDs history of AI programming (B-Spec etc).
They can bang in thousands of 100% consistent laps using AI, and just have a good test driver hop on to give feedback on the car, the way Tidgney does such a good job of doing
Cheers for the kind compliments, PD actually do have a couple of alien drivers that work for them
so it could be A.I. laps then a fine tune by these drivers or just A.I. as you say. I'd love to understand how the BoP is done though.
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- PD_ApexPredator
You're welcome dude 👍 great video series.
Yeah same. You'd probably need insight into their handling code, the physics engine, and the game engine, as well as just the actual test process itself. But yeah no doubt they have plenty of fast drivers on retainer; there's at least one test driver in the credits, but I can't remember his name!
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I know there are some people on this forum with professional track experience -- has anyone actually driven the Ferrari 458 GT3 in real life? It seems implausible to me that the real car handles that poorly.
The 458 is the Gr.3 car I've had the most time with in GTS, and yet I still struggle with it, especially once tire wear sets in and exacerbates the problems @Tidgney mentioned in the video. It's an exciting car and a frightening car. BTW, the only way I've found to compensate for the 458's massive oversteer issues is to give it some forward brake bias. It still has snap oversteer issues, but with some forward brake bias its "normal" oversteer is tamed somewhat.
The 458 is the Gr.3 car I've had the most time with in GTS, and yet I still struggle with it, especially once tire wear sets in and exacerbates the problems @Tidgney mentioned in the video. It's an exciting car and a frightening car. BTW, the only way I've found to compensate for the 458's massive oversteer issues is to give it some forward brake bias. It still has snap oversteer issues, but with some forward brake bias its "normal" oversteer is tamed somewhat.
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- PD_ApexPredator
