GT Racing - GT1, GT3, Blancpain Endurance Series & National GT SeriesSports Cars

[catamount39]

That's another thing...the Nissan is unbalanced aero wise and nobody's believing that it seems. And could somebody please explain what wildlife lives at the Ring'? Or that region for that matter.

Eau rouge hasn't changed, only the bits around it, and while they should give more run off there, they need to shave that crest first, no point ruining one of the iconic corners of the circuit for the sake of a freak accident

Well that's what I was trying to say, the area around the corner has changed. It isn't just GT3 which has crashed at this corner.

 

[Famine]

I doubt they'll be gone for long. Most likely they'll just ban spectators from certain areas

The area in which the car came to rest is just such an area - dubbed "no man's land" - between the safety catch fencing that lines the track and a secondary set of fencing to provide a safety margin.

Under the GT-R we saw a collapsed camp chair in that area and it doesn't seem unreasonable that one or more of the eleven injured spectators was where they shouldn't be.

Incidentally, two of the injured spectators and a reportedly 'very distressed' Jann have now been released from hospital, according to the latest NISMO press release.

 

[Furinkazen]

The area in which the car came to rest is just such an area - dubbed "no man's land" - between the safety catch fencing that lines the track and a secondary set of fencing to provide a safety margin.

Under the GT-R we saw a collapsed camp chair in that area and it doesn't seem unreasonable that one or more of the eleven injured spectators was where they shouldn't be.

Incidentally, two of the injured spectators and a reportedly 'very distressed' Jann have now been released from hospital, according to the latest NISMO press release.

I do wander if Jann will take some time off and perhaps skip his Le Mans drive with Nissan this season.

 

[Famine]

And could somebody please explain what wildlife lives at the Ring'? Or that region for that matter.

Judging by the corner names, foxes and owls.

I do wander if Jann will take some time off and perhaps skip his Le Mans drive with Nissan this season.

I hope not.

However it looks like he won't be required to race N24 in 6 weeks' time at the moment, since GT3 cars are currently banned from it...

 

[TenEightyOne]

That's another thing...the Nissan is unbalanced aero wise and nobody's believing that it seems. And could somebody please explain what wildlife lives at the Ring'? Or that region for that matter.

The Eifel is full of all kinds of flora and fauna... Google it as an explanation is probably beyond the scope of this thread.

Europeans don't generally just destroy woodland for the sake of it, that's not to say that changes might not need to be made at that corner, I'm just reacting to the tone of your question

However it looks like he won't be required to race N24 in 6 weeks' time at the moment, since GT3 cars are currently banned from it...

Is that as a reaction to this accident or was that already the case?

EDIT: Scrub that, I've caught up on the news... sorry.

 

[Bo]

The cars are safe, Mardenborough didn't have a scratch, after such a huge impact, the spectator safety is a completely different thing.

Errr... no? There comes a point where cars are too fast for a track, end of. Safety is a collective - are you saying such accidents are acceptable if one driver managed to escape injury? This current crop of GT3 cars are the fastest non-single seaters to have ever gone round the track. Everything as fast, or faster, has been quite rightly banned, since they are just massive accidents waiting to happen.

The track is the issue, not the cars. Yes front or mid front engined cars have issues with this turn...so why not change the turn? Spa's changed Eau Rouge over the years...why not this one?

No. Really, really no. The track meets appropriate FIA safety standards. This one single corner is not the issue - the nature of the track remains - it's a narrow rollercoaster. Would you let F1 cars race on a track not designed for such cars, watch carnage unfold, then proceed to blame the track?

for the sake of a freak accident

The only thing "freak" about this accident was the manner in which it took off. The fact that a GT3 took off was frankly inevitable, due to the amount of close calls we've had at the 'Ring in the past few years.

 

[catamount39]

And no I wouldn't have F1 go to the Ring' just for fun...but GT3 cars aren't exactly GT1, which not long ago ran at the Ring'. Maybe the solution then would be adding a chicane leading up to the hill.

I know SP-8 are like GT3 cars and SP-PRO had a GTE...but what do the other classes consist of again?

 

[neljack]

Even so, he still disgusts me.

I know, but was only fair to post the apology.

 

[Bo]

Is that as a reaction to this accident or was that already the case?

It took a fatal accident to prompt the realisation that lapping faster than Group C cars is a bad sign.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Errr... no? There comes a point where cars are too fast for a track, end of. Safety is a collective - are you saying such accidents are acceptable if one driver managed to escape injury? This current crop of GT3 cars are the fastest non-single seaters to have ever gone round the track. Everything as fast, or faster, has been quite rightly banned, since they are just massive accidents waiting to happen.

We had much more deadly accidents on the Nordschleife before the GT3 were there, mostly in touring and other sportscars. GT3 cars are usually rarely involved in accidents with injuries. The last person who died was driving a BMW 3 Series, before that, a guy who burned in his non-GT Aston Martin, before that, it was someone in an Alfa 156 (?) Touring Car etc.

It took a fatal accident to prompt the realisation that lapping faster than Group C cars is a bad sign.

But the speed didn't cause the crash. Cars were also quicker in Le Mans after 1999 and we still haven't seen similar blowovers there.

 

[TDZdave]

And no I wouldn't have F1 go to the Ring' just for fun...but GT3 cars aren't exactly GT1, which not long ago ran at the Ring'. Maybe the solution then would be adding a chicane leading up to the hill.

I know SP-8 are like GT3 cars and SP-PRO had a GTE...but what do the other classes consist of again?

Best guess is to look at the entry list or results from last years 24h

 

[G.T.Ace]

I know SP-8 are like GT3 cars and SP-PRO had a GTE...but what do the other classes consist of again?

SP7 are Porsche Cup cars for example, SP-X are experimental vehicles, or prototypes which don't fit into a certain category, like the P4/5C.

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[IforceV8]

Because there's no money and because you're not allowed to because of natural conversation.
It doesn't need to be changed anyway. The car got air before the crest, so it's an aerodynamic problem with the Nissan, the car also didn't flip over the fence because of the blowover, it flipped because of the tyre barrier.

Marc Hennerici made a good point: A guardrail closer to the track, wouldn't have let the GT-R fly into the spectator area.

The only way the tires would have made any difference is they were stacked as high as that fence.The wall would have done the same thing to a car that was flying vertical at 130mph.

You are right about the car though, Wolfgang told a photographer Friday that they were having a issue with front end lift at that very spot. Looking back at Buncombe's onboards from last year he was holding 5th gear at redline and looked to be braking slightly to keep the car planted, I wonder what Jann's onboard will show?

Are the track owners allowed to make any changes to the actual track? They need to consider shaving a few feet of the top of that hill.

 

[20832]

And could somebody please explain what wildlife lives at the Ring'? Or that region for that matter.
.

In the Eifel National Parks are various kinds of animal (species), that only live there or are slowly starting to migrate there. Of course, some of these animals also are present in other parts in Germany and Europe, however the overall liveable space is getting smaller and smaller, due to tourism and industry parks etc.

Some species that are very prominent in the Eifel region are the Wildcat, red deers, various kinds of bats, owls, osprey and various other kinds of birds, wall lizards, smooth snake, midwife toad and natterjack toad, the list goes on.

 

[TDZdave]

Sp5 are cars like BMW M3 GTR' and moderately modified equivalent, not sure what Sp6 is,

 

[G.T.Ace]

The only way the tires would have made any difference is they were stacked as high as that fence.The wall would have done the same thing to a car that was flying vertical at 130mph.

That's why Hennerici said he would like a guardrail closer to the actual track, because the cars would hit that and most likely flip into the fence, not over it.

 

[boiltheocean]

Foxes, don't forget foxes. I remember last year paying a visit to the Dorr Motorsport garage as they were scraping an unlucky fox from the front of their MP4-12C at midnight. Took that car out the race I believe.

 

[20832]

Sp5 are cars like BMW M3 GTR' and moderately modified equivalent, not sure what Sp6 is,

SP6 are cars like the Porsche Cayman and such. I don't really see the reason, why these cars are banned, yet the SP4T are still allowed, but yeeeeeeah.

Edit: Nevermind, SP6 is still allowed.

@boiltheocean: Yeah, but he specifically asked for species that are "special" to the Eifel and the fox (and wolves for that matter) are actually starting to be much more prominent all over Germany.

 

[Bo]

We had much more deadly accidents on the Nordschleife before the GT3 where there, mostly in touring and other sportscars. GT3 cars are usualy rarely involved in accidents with injuries. The last person who died was driving a BMW 3 Series, before that, a guy who burned in his non-GT Aston Martin, before that, it was some in an Alfa 156 (?) Touring Car etc.

It doesn't matter how "deadly" they have been so far. A giant accident is a giant accident; there's no telling what accidents could come if cars are left as they are - I'm sure nobody would've guessed we'd have a flying car plowing into fans this time last week.

Racing accidents are strange things. Some massive ones leave the driver with nothing but a few bruises, whilst some that appear minor can cause some quite serious injuries. However, the general rule is, crashing into a wall at 100mph in a touring car is preferable to crashing into a wall at about 150 in a GT car. The faster you go, the bigger the accidents - there has to be some cut-off point where no more speed can be tolerated, when going off almost definitely results in injury - be it to the driver or spectators. Crashes happen in racing, but there has to be a scale to which they're tolerated.

Just to put it into perspective, the 991 Cup cars are currently able to lap as quick as the Alzen 996TT. That car was deemed unsuitably fast for racing at the 'Ring. That is how dangerously quick GT3 cars are now.

 

[catamount39]

Meanwhile here in the states our teams have dealt with Raccoons and Possums.

Edit: Got tree'd.

 

[TDZdave]

So SP6 is closer to GT4/ GTD, or Moore like continental tire series with more modifications?

 

[Downhill Dino]

Just to put it into perspective, the 991 Cup cars are currently able to lap as quick as the Alzen 996TT. That car was deemed unsuitably fast for racing at the 'Ring. That is how dangerously quick GT3 cars are now.

We also have better technology (stability through tires, aero, etc.) than 10 years ago so it kind of balances out I'd say.

 

[G.T.Ace]

It doesn't matter how "deadly" they have been so far. A giant accident is a giant accident; there's no telling what accidents could come if cars are left as they are - I'm sure nobody would've guessed we'd have a flying car plowing into fans this time last week.

Racing accidents are strange things. Some massive ones leave the driver with nothing but a few bruises, whilst some that appear minor can cause some quite serious injuries. However, the general rule is, crashing into a wall at 100mph in a touring car is preferable to crashing into a wall at about 150 in a GT car. The faster you go, the bigger the accidents - there has to be some cut-off point where no more speed can be tolerated, when going off almost definitely results in injury - be it to the driver or spectators. Crashes happen in racing, but there has to be a scale to which they're tolerated.

Just to put it into perspective, the 991 Cup cars are currently able to lap as quick as the Alzen 996TT. That car was deemed unsuitably fast for racing at the 'Ring. That is how dangerously quick GT3 cars are now.

You're still avoiding that the speed seems to be in no correlation to deadly incidents.
Sure, ban GT3, then people will die in their 3 Series, because they're not experienced enough and the safety of the cars isn't good enough. The speed of the cars has absolutely nothing to do with anything related to death tolls, nothing.

 

[20832]

@hsv : Yeah, but in my opinion I think we should refrain from generalizations to say that GT3 cars are too fast for the 'Ring. I do agree with you, that we're not very far away from the point, where the cars become too powerful and that there has to be certain limitations of what is allowed and what isn't and that they should meet certain levels and numbers.

But as I said before, there are NO other GT3 cars that have had any similar tendencies like the GT-R has had. And just because one car does this, which is of course one too much, you cannot generalize the fact on the whole series/kind of cars.

 

[G.T.Ace]

But as I said before, there are NO other GT3 cars that have had any similar tendencies like the GT-R has had. And just because one car does this, which is of course one too much, you cannot generalize the fact on the whole series/kind of cars.

To be fair, that's not fully true either, the GT-R just seems to have even more of an issue regarding airflow.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Meanwhile in Pirelli World Challenge land..

http://www.world-challengetv.com/#/races/1211

 

[InSight]

I just hope they'll modify the GT-R floor and improve the safety on that part of the track (no spectators right across the straight, dual high fences and tirewalls). Not ban the GT3 alltogether from the Ring

 

[20832]

To be fair, that's not fully true either, the GT-R just seems to have even more of an issue regarding airflow.

Yeah, I still can't think of such or similar events with a SLS or R8 or MP4 or anything similar.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Yeah, I still can't think of such or similar events with a SLS or R8 or MP4 or anything similar.

A full blowover didn't happen before, but last year for example, one of the SLS' actually wheelied and bounced of the track 2-3 times with its frontend. Was scary as hell.

 

[20832]

A full blowover didn't happen before, but last year for example, one of the SLS' actually wheelied and bounced of the track 2-3 times with its frontend. Was scary as hell.

Yeah, but that is most likely caused (in part that is) by the driver not slowing down sufficiently before the crest, otherwise the car wouldn't wheelie but just make a slight, subtle jump.