GT Racing - GT1, GT3, Blancpain Endurance Series & National GT SeriesSports Cars

[ItsHim]

I hope it does otherwise there's no point in watching it.

Personally I wouldn't mind the VLN lost the GT3 class at all. They've taken too much away from the grassroots origins and spirit of the racing series. But I'm aware that the Nürburgring probably needs GT3 for financial reasons.

 

[catamount39]

Personally I wouldn't mind the VLN lost the GT3 class at all. They've taken too much away from the grassroots origins and spirit of the racing series. But I'm aware that the Nürburgring probably needs GT3 for financial reasons.

Well if they kept a GT300 style class with home made cars vs GT3 that'd be fine by me...but they even removed SP8....heck they removed pretty much everything but Miatas. (Exaggerating a skosh)

 

[ItsHim]

Well if they kept a GT300 style class with home made cars vs GT3 that'd be fine by me...but they even removed SP8....check they removed pretty much everything but Miatas. (Exaggerating a skosh)

GT4 should have been where it ended, and I'm not saying this because of the tragic incident this weekend. A prime example were the McLarens the last couple of years - punting off cars in lower classes and after they were done bursting into flames. That's not the kind of Motorsport I like to watch. For regular listeners of RLM I lost count how often they mentioned the race became a 24 hour sprint race. Probably the big manufacturers were fed up by Manthey constantly winning, so they threw money at the event to eventually win it. Audi springs to my mind. Just take 5 cars going flat out, one probably survives the mayhem and secures a podium. Others followed.

I had the chance to talk to a customer who runs the VLN for years, and has a nice archive of video footage getting punted off the track by GT3 cars. He shared some strong views, but none of them fit for print.

It's fact to me all the lower classes, guys who still hang in there for what the VLN once was, only serve as moving roadblocks to provide nice TV footage of GT3 cars overtaking other cars. The media totally ignores the fantastic racing that still goes on. Only in the small hours does RLM some justice to all the petrol heads who make the VLN so unique.

So really, back to the roots it would be for me, but then again it might be the end of the Nürburgring races.

 

[Bo]

GT4 should have been where it ended, and I'm not saying this because of the tragic incident this weekend. A prime example were the McLarens the last couple of years - punting off cars in lower classes and after they were done bursting into flames. That's not the kind of Motorsport I like to watch. For regular listeners of RLM I lost count how often they mentioned the race became a 24 hour sprint race. Probably the big manufacturers were fed up by Manthey constantly winning, so they threw money at the event to eventually win it. Audi springs to my mind. Just take 5 cars going flat out, one probably survives the mayhem and secures a podium. Others followed.

I had the chance to talk to a customer who runs the VLN for years, and has a nice archive of video footage getting punted off the track by GT3 cars. He shared some strong views, but none of them fit for print.

It's fact to me all the lower classes, guys who still hang in there for what the VLN once was, only serve as moving roadblocks to provide nice TV footage of GT3 cars overtaking other cars. The media totally ignores the fantastic racing that still goes on. Only in the small hours does RLM some justice to all the petrol heads who make the VLN so unique.

So really, back to the roots it would be for me, but then again it might be the end of the Nürburgring races.

Thank you, someone who really grasps VLN and how the GT3 element has played out in the past few years. 👍

 

[RACECAR]

So based on bad drivers, there shouldn't be a GT3 class at Nurburgring?

 

[Nessy]

I do like the variation of different classes in the VLN, but i feel the GT3 class is a little too much.

 

[Bo]

So based on bad drivers, there shouldn't be a GT3 class at Nurburgring?

Rocketships on the absolute edge with each other, in traffic against much slower cars engaged in their own battle. Sounds like a great recipe on such a track.

 

[MatskiMonk]

GT4 should have been where it ended, and I'm not saying this because of the tragic incident this weekend. A prime example were the McLarens the last couple of years - punting off cars in lower classes and after they were done bursting into flames. That's not the kind of Motorsport I like to watch. For regular listeners of RLM I lost count how often they mentioned the race became a 24 hour sprint race. Probably the big manufacturers were fed up by Manthey constantly winning, so they threw money at the event to eventually win it. Audi springs to my mind. Just take 5 cars going flat out, one probably survives the mayhem and secures a podium. Others followed.

I had the chance to talk to a customer who runs the VLN for years, and has a nice archive of video footage getting punted off the track by GT3 cars. He shared some strong views, but none of them fit for print.

It's fact to me all the lower classes, guys who still hang in there for what the VLN once was, only serve as moving roadblocks to provide nice TV footage of GT3 cars overtaking other cars. The media totally ignores the fantastic racing that still goes on. Only in the small hours does RLM some justice to all the petrol heads who make the VLN so unique.

So really, back to the roots it would be for me, but then again it might be the end of the Nürburgring races.

So what do you think is the problem? Manufacturers, poor driving standards, or just the descrepancy between the guys and gals at the front of the pack, and those in the middle?

 

[ItsHim]

So based on bad drivers, there shouldn't be a GT3 class at Nurburgring?

Based on the VLN being a grassroots event originally, the official body should have made their mind up quite some time ago how much gap in performance the event can handle. If they scare away the basis of the race, the VLN will lose its unique appeal. But if they refuse to limit manufacturer influence in the future, be it BOP or outright outperforming 75% of the field by a considerable margin (and then some) and being able to take risks not suited for an endurance event, it will come to end end eventually by its own means.

The GT3 drivers are forced to act like they do, because the manufactures demand to see results.

So what do you think is the problem? Manufacturers, poor driving standards, or just the descrepancy between the guys and gals at the front of the pack, and those in the middle?

I think manufacturers have too great an influence. Race incidents where clearly the driver of the higher class car was simply too aggressive have been handled poorly. In my view because the VLN is too afraid to lose backing. Same goes with the BOP, though it has improved I must say.

I really wouldn't blame the drivers because they have no choice. Either they play ball, or they can go looking for a new job.

From what I have gathered most of the lower class drivers, quite a few gentleman drivers, have been in the VLN for years and years, but they increasingly struggle to have a race in their own class because performance gaps rise, as does the willingness to take risks of GT3 teams. It's a real shame because many Cup classes are top notch.

 

[RACECAR]

The GT3 drivers are forced to act like they do, because the manufactures demand to see results.

I don't think drivers are told by manufacterers to Mow down drivers of lower classes. If a driver does that, that was of his own selfish decision. While they are there to win for both the team and manufacterer, I doubt potentially incurring the wrath of the Sanctioning body through ruthless conduct is part of the contract.

 

[ItsHim]

I don't think drivers are told by manufacterers to Mow down drivers of lower classes. If a driver does that, that was of his own selfish decision. While they are there to win for both the team and manufacterer, I doubt potentially incurring the wrath of the Sanctioning body through ruthless conduct is part of the contract.

If you had the Klaus Ludwig incident 2012 in mind then you are probably right, because Klaus is a real tool from what I've heard and seen so far. You don't need to take my word for anything, just listen to a few RLM podcasts from the small hours of past 24 hour races. They do get to chat with loads of participants, and they share sometimes quite frank views.

Nick Heidfeld was another prime example. After he was done whining he's not familiar with the Nordschleife he has written off the car in a way that could have easily caused marshals coming to harm.

Racing unfortunately involves accidents and more tragically serious injuries and even death. But if anything good can at all come from the recent incident, sick as it may sound, the semi-officially manufacturer backed teams might cut their boys some slack so they start again to behave properly.

 

[G.T.Ace]

They don't? Let's take a fast lap as an example (a record lap even), start watching at 2:37. He clearly lifts before hitting the jump.

You'll struggle with race cars like this then as you'll find they will all lift or brush the brakes or dip the clutch as if they don't do one of the above then.

1. It won't shift the weight forward risking a flip.

2.Puting that kind of force on the drive train will cause something to brake eg drive shaft etc.

Learned this at Cadwell park over the last couple of years which has a lot lower speed at the take off point compared to this track.



Actually LMP1 cars are faster than GT3 cars. Also your friend was wrong about the quote from RLM on GT3 cars racing at Le Mans.

The manufactors are the reason GT3 cars aren't allowed at Le Mans as they prefer GTE as they are more true to the road cars compared to GT3.

Watch from 2:30 on, no lift, not even while the car jumps (watch the revs go up).
You can constantly witness that in the races, I'm not saying it's ideal though.

 

[TDZdave]

Be honest guys, for anyone that knows anything about and enjoys motor racing, they watch this point of the circuit, watching the car go light, lift or even catch air as they then try to get the car calm and settled for Flugplatz,

 

[Downhill Dino]

How does our resident driver @Christhedude feel about this ban? As I recall he races in these classes.

 

[cnd01]

Be honest guys, for anyone that knows anything about and enjoys motor racing, they watch this point of the circuit, watching the car go light, lift or even catch air as they then try to get the car calm and settled for Flugplatz,

Exactly, it's an area where a lot of action happens. It's hard to keep the people away from that

 

[FoRiZon]

For those who still didnt know, there are a video of the crash with different angle. Search on Youtube.

I cant show you here for obvious reason.

 

[Clark]

All you people saying that GT3 took away some of the spirit of the VLN/24, or that it's not grass roots anymore. Remember that before GT3 you had BMW running a factory GT2 car, and both Opel and Audi running DTM cars in the 24 at one point.

 

[Snaeper]

And Zakspeed had their Viper and others brought modified twin-turbo Porsche's.

And it's because of those cars that the rest of the world started caring about the event.

This terrible accident is the result of no single issue. While the fan who perished may not have been sitting somewhere they shouldn't have been, there were people sitting in an unsafe area who were likely injured by the GT-R. Combine that with a track section called the airport and a car that is moving at a high rate of speed and you have a recipe for disaster. There is no one thing that is to blame for this incident.

The decision to blanket ban so many cars "temporarily" is a huge mistake and will likely kill this event and it's popularity. Big and Small teams make commitments between drivers, sponsors, etc. Now every one of those people are wondering if they should re-schedule or wait until the "temporary" ban is lifted, if it ever is.

Then you have sponsors and spectators who are watching the only thing that made this event exciting go right down the drain and now have to anticipate the possibility of getting far less of a return on their investment due to less interest in the event.

This cancellation is huge for Lexus, SCG and other teams who had cars that could pretty much only race at the Nur 24/VLN especially.


It should be noted that this doesn't mean the Nur 24 is done by any means. I always found cars like the Scirocco GT24, Golf24 and that insane FWD Audi TT-RSR to be exciting machines. So I don't see why those cars couldn't bear the flag for the events. Although it's only a matter of time until enough money flows into them to make them faster enough to cause issues.

 

[20832]

Watch from 2:30 on, no lift, not even while the car jumps (watch the revs go up).
You can constantly witness that in the races, I'm not saying it's ideal though.

That is bat:censored: crazy, but maybe (or at least I hope) that the overall weight distribution and aerodynamic package allows the R8 to do this, otherwise it's just completely crazy.

 

[Bo]

The decision to blanket ban so many cars "temporarily" is a huge mistake and will likely kill this event and it's popularity. Big and Small teams make commitments between drivers, sponsors, etc. Now every one of those people are wondering if they should re-schedule or wait until the "temporary" ban is lifted, if it ever is.

It's DMSA standard procedure, in any investigation.

I have to say, it's interesting seeing everyone on here finding no issue with GT3 at the 'Ring, whilst the people discussing it over at RLM are almost unanimously against it (with some of the journalists having called it for a while).

 

[Clark]

I think GT3 should be slowed down a bit, but more weight and smaller wings etc. make them less reliant on aero.

Should slow them down and as a bonus widen the gap between GTE and GT3.

 

[TDZdave]

I think GT3 should be slowed down a bit, but more weight and smaller wings etc. make them less reliant on aero.

Should slow them down and as a bonus widen the gap between GTE and GT3.

I always thought GTE were the pinnacle of GT racing regarding the technology and aero designs, after doing some light reading and investigation I found I was way off,

 

[MatskiMonk]

It's DMSA standard procedure, in any investigation.

I have to say, it's interesting seeing everyone on here finding no issue with GT3 at the 'Ring, whilst the people discussing it over at RLM are almost unanimously against it (with some of the journalists having called it for a while).

I don't think it's a case of finding no issue with it, but there needs to be a balance. I quite like the way the race is now, it's what I want to see - it's what I was going to pay to see, but the prospect of wasting hundreds of pounds to go to the 24, to have a third of the field missing, to not see the cars that I love and the drivers that I want to see racing in action for 24 hours totally sucks.

On the flip side of that, if the cars are too fast then I don't think slowing them down a bit is going to do much harm, and is certainly preferable (to me) to loosing all the GT3 cars.

I understand the grassroots issue too, it's been interesting to see the Britcar 24 at Silverstone evolve, and certainly the accesibility element of "grassroots" motorsports, even just for the fans, is great... but again it's a balance - big names and a bigger spectacle is normally going to be better for the commercial side of the sport.

All you people saying that GT3 took away some of the spirit of the VLN/24, or that it's not grass roots anymore. Remember that before GT3 you had BMW running a factory GT2 car, and both Opel and Audi running DTM cars in the 24 at one point.

I think in '04, when the M3 GTR took it's first 1-2 the fastest lap was taken by the Opel DTM car... but the lap speeds were less than the current GT3 cars.

 

[pay2021]

Nords is not prepared for GT3 nor Lemans.

 

[FoRiZon]

Nords is not prepared for GT3 nor Lemans.

And yet in the 1970's the fastest lap ever is in the Le Mans Prototype Group B with 1000 horsepower.

Where did the Norschleife management go over the decades.

 

[Clark]

@FrzGT Group B was only ever raced by like 1 car at Le Mans, and that was in 1986 and 1987.

Group C was in the 80's and the fastest lap was actually set in 1971 by a ~600bhp Porsche 917, on a much faster version of the track with no corners and when deaths were still common.

 

[Downhill Dino]

I'm sure he meant Group C. But not in the 70's... so Formula 1 then.

 

[Famine]

How does our resident driver @Christhedude feel about this ban? As I recall he races in these classes.

Not only that, but he was driving an SP9 class R8 on Saturday...

 

[Bo]

I always thought GTE were the pinnacle of GT racing regarding the technology and aero designs, after doing some light reading and investigation I found I was way off,

GTE cars are roughly 4 seconds slower than GT300 class GT3 cars. I do like GTE cars more as a whole though.

 

[20832]

Personally, would you think cars from the Super GT 300 would be suitable to race there? Or even something like a toned down GT 500?