GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[OdeFinn]


Double checked.. Only abs on. Turned all off and still blinking on down shifts. Must be the auto rev matching..

I'll bet at it's preventing wheel lockup, making high rev downshifting easy, no possibility to lose rear during it.

 

[ScottPuss20]

A few pages back I noticed a comment about wishing that PD could go back to GT3 physics. I am currently working on an article where I tune the same car with the same settings at the same track in all six titles of Gran Turismo. The GT3 physics may not be what you remember them to be. They were still very arcade like; just throw it into the corner with a really aggressive entry and save it with a bit of a drift on exit. GT4 is actually the first physics model that came close to real life. In fact, I think that the physics took a large step backward with GT5 and recovered a bit with GT6. I am actually having more fun tuning in GT4 than the newer titles.

Driving all six titles back to back has been really fun and a bit eye opening to the progression, then regression of the physics model.

Well, since I did not win the GT Sport lottery, it's off to tune in GT4 for tonight.

Curiously, when I first played GT4 I played with traction control, not without. I don't think I appreciated just how good the physics were until I played the game without traction control. Before this, I actually though GT6 was the best in terms of physics, but now I'm not so sure. See, with the powerful cars in GT4, it was quite hard to launch them properly and it was highly rewarding when you did. That didn't happen in GT6 - the tyres were far too grippy for that. I am kinda annoyed that I can say that the cars in GT4 feel very good compared to GT6. It's a 12 year old game for crying out loud, it should feel that way. But it doesn't in this instance. It's very disappointing when you think about it if I'm honest, so I'm hoping the GT Sport physics are the best ever in a GT game. They have to be if I'm to enjoy my experience- and keep up with competition. Which they aren't really doing right now. Physics have to be polished at launch or I will not be happy.

 

[oneloops]

Man I don't know but I wish more people would complain about it. Brands In AC compared to GTS track surface is night and day. Dont get me wrong some turns feel great like coming down the Hill you get the vibration and even chassis noise but after that everything is pretty much smooth like butter. AC is just great in the aspects of the bumps and track surface really bumps up the driving experience in my opinion.

Assetto Corsa and Project Cars both exaggerate bumps reactions and bumps FFB in my opinion.
Sometimes in a very weird way, the most extreme is in Project cars where cars begin to rebound themselves like they were passing over big bumps when the car is only loosing lateral grip ...

 

[PzR Slim]

Assetto Corsa and Project Cars both exaggerate bumps reactions and bumps FFB in my opinion.
Sometimes in a very weird way, the most extreme is in Project cars where cars begin to rebound themselves like they were passing over big bumps when the car is only loosing lateral grip ...

Because in real life it's not bumpy at all...



Look at the drivers helmet, look how much it's moving up and down. Race tracks are bumpy, GTS ignores that.

 

[Haitauer]

Because in real life it's not bumpy at all...



Look at the drivers helmet, look how much it's moving up and down. Race tracks are bumpy, GTS ignores that.

BUT also noticed the cars look very smooth over the bumps so its not like you see the car moving up/down.

It should be ffb and camera movement simulating small bumps in games.. 💡

 

[PzR Slim]

BUT also noticed the cars look very smooth over the bumps so its not like you see the car moving up/down.

It should be ffb and camera movement simulating small bumps in games.. 💡

Check the rear view mirror

The only way the helmet moves is if the car moves as it's effectively attached to the car.

 

[Haitauer]

Check the rear view mirror

The only way the helmet moves is if the car moves as it's effectively attached to the car.

Yes i know the car moves. Or then its just a case of over excited driver.

What i mean is that you dont see so much of the small jumping the cars body does even when it does. Thats why i think FFB and camera are key to immersion (and nausea) here. Unless one can make the playing chair jump..

 

[PzR Slim]

Yes i know the car moves. Or then its just a case of over excited driver.

What i mean is that you dont see so much of the small jumping the cars body does even when it does. Thats why i think FFB and camera are key to immersion (and nausea) here. Unless one can make the playing chair jump..

Mine does on my PC games.

http://www.nextlevelracing.com/products/next-level-racing-motion-platform-v3/

 

[Haitauer]

Mine does on my PC games.

http://www.nextlevelracing.com/products/next-level-racing-motion-platform-v3/

just shy of 4000€/$

Assetto Corsa and Project Cars both exaggerate bumps reactions and bumps FFB in my opinion.
Sometimes in a very weird way, the most extreme is in Project cars where cars begin to rebound themselves like they were passing over big bumps when the car is only loosing lateral grip ...

Because in real life it's not bumpy at all...



Look at the drivers helmet, look how much it's moving up and down. Race tracks are bumpy, GTS ignores that.

Started to dive deeper into this issue of too smooth tracks. watched few replays just staring at the wheels and one can clearly see theres all kinds of small bumps - even on the main straight of the Dragon Trail. For some reason they just dont transfer that well (at all - like ZERO) to the body of the car nor FFB. Cars body jumping might give a slight FPS issue (?), but connecting the wheel/tire movement on small bumps to camera and FFB shouldnt be a problem.

More and more I have the feeling that some minor tweaks on GTS beta are watering down a great potential in the core engine. Deliberately?

..and yes - have been using the emoji quite a lot since GTS beta released.

 

[Haitauer]

The ABS 0 brake test is now on my channel:

Great stuff! Looks like the brakes have been modelled more accurately than i thought. Theres different kind of brake pressure limiters at work even without ABS (as in real life i guess) resulting in different balance depending on pedal pressure.

 

[Stotty]

The biggest issue that I have with GT5 is that nearly every car in the game starts with massive understeer. And, there is no way to tune out the understeer in most cars. A Mazda Miata with the softest front settings and hardest rear settings should in no way continue to understeer.

👍

GT5 physics were massively disappointing after GT5 Prologue, which had the best physics in any GT title IMO.

Only way to get rid of the persistent understeer in GT5 was the high front/low rear ride height bug, minimum LSD decel, and then add -ve rear toe if that didn't fix it.

 

[Motor City Hami]

And GT4 was well known for how easily cars rotated?

I actually felt that more in GT1, GT2 and GT3. In GT4 you can tune for different portions of the corner more easily. In the previous titles, there was massive amounts of front grip that needed to be tuned out. GT4 was more balanced.

It has been insightful playing all of the titles back to back like this.

 

[Scaff]

Assetto Corsa and Project Cars both exaggerate bumps reactions and bumps FFB in my opinion.
Sometimes in a very weird way, the most extreme is in Project cars where cars begin to rebound themselves like they were passing over big bumps when the car is only loosing lateral grip ...

An actual example of this would help quite a bit.

Oh and yes it can happen under lateral load, it even has its own term to define it, stiction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiction#Engineering
http://tech.dvosuspension.com/tuning/emerald/suspension-terms-definitions/#Stiction
http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic/polyurethanefriction.htm
http://www.kwsuspensions.co.uk/kw/info/coil_overs/kw_competition/

BUT also noticed the cars look very smooth over the bumps so its not like you see the car moving up/down.

Cars don't move up and down at Brands?



That's an entire race of them doing just that, Brands is notorious for it and its part of what makes the track so challenging.

More


Its not exactly starange behaviour for cars running race suspension on bumpy tracks, with street circuits being even worse.

 

[Stotty]

Have to agree with @Scaff.

No experience of Project Cars, but coming from decades of driving cars with decent 'steering feel', the way AC FF works feels very natural to me.

 

[Haitauer]

An actual example of this would help quite a bit.

Oh and yes it can happen under lateral load, it even has its own term to define it, stiction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiction#Engineering
http://tech.dvosuspension.com/tuning/emerald/suspension-terms-definitions/#Stiction
http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic/polyurethanefriction.htm
http://www.kwsuspensions.co.uk/kw/info/coil_overs/kw_competition/



Cars don't move up and down at Brands?



That's an entire race of them doing just that, Brands is notorious for it and its part of what makes the track so challenging.

More


Its not exactly starange behaviour for cars running race suspension on bumpy tracks, with street circuits being even worse.

Yes they move up and down, jump, go up and down hill. Lots of moving forward and sometimes even backwards.

Point was how it should be shown in the game and are the tracks smooth in gts or is it just down to car physics or FFB.

But anyway. Have to check wheel movement on brands from a replay.. As i recall even gt6 made The Ring feel more bumpy than GTS.



Cool race btw.. Was watching it for a while totally bumps unrelated. 👍

 

[JDMKING13]

Yes they move up and down, jump, go up and down hill. Lots of moving forward and sometimes even backwards.

Point was how it should be shown in the game and are the tracks smooth in gts or is it just down to car physics or FFB.

But anyway. Have to check wheel movement on brands from a replay..

Tracks are way to smooth in GTS my friend and it's hurting the driving experience in my opinion. AC And PC do it right in my opinion. The only track GTS got right with the bumps is the Ring, it actually has the best feedback through my controler compared to AC and Pcars. I really hope they add bumps to the tracks.

 

[Haitauer]

Tracks are way to smooth in GTS my friend and it's hurting the driving experience in my opinion. AC And PC do it right in my opinion. The only track GTS got right with the bumps is the Ring, it actually has the best feedback through my controler compared to AC and Pcars. I really hope they add bumps to the tracks.

Yes they feel way too smooth. Im trying to find out if they actually ARE smooth or just FEEL smooth. one can see bumps affect cars off track even though the surface looks smooth..

 

[diesel97]

Yes they feel way too smooth. Im trying to find out if they actually ARE smooth or just FEEL smooth. one can see bumps affect cars off track even though the surface looks smooth..

Not sure what you mean in the first part of your statement, the grass looks smooth but have bumps? IMO the reason the tracks drive so smooth is because they look smooth. There are no cracks or crack sealer, no coarseness in the tarmac at all it looks brand new

 

[JDMKING13]

Not sure what you mean in the first part of your statement, the grass looks smooth but have bumps? IMO the reason the tracks drive so smooth is because they look smooth. There are no cracks or crack sealer, no coarseness in the tarmac at all it looks brand new

Do you have the Beta? All of Brands hatch track surface doesn't look brand new PD just didn't give the track bumps.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Have to agree with @Scaff.

No experience of Project Cars, but coming from decades of driving cars with decent 'steering feel', the way AC FF works feels very natural to me.

Project Cars is incredible. You can even adjust the settings for how much bump is felt and how much your vision changes on the horizon. Drive in helmet view and it is even more pronounced.

 

[Stotty]

Project Cars is incredible. You can even adjust the settings for how much bump is felt and how much your vision changes on the horizon. Drive in helmet view and it is even more pronounced.

I'm pretty close to Platinum on AC, so may pick PC up in the future... depends how good the next update is on AC, and how good the online is when they finally make private rooms part of the set up.

 

[Haitauer]

Not sure what you mean in the first part of your statement, the grass looks smooth but have bumps?

Just that. Surface polygons are smooth but car bounces up and down - the bump map is hidden under the surface.

 

[Scaff]

Just that. Surface polygons are smooth but car bounces up and down - the bump map is hidden under the surface.

It may well be, but if the only effect on the car is visual then its pretty much pointless.

 

[Haitauer]

It may well be, but if the only effect on the car is visual then its pretty much pointless.

This is a side rail now. For me the important thing is if the tracks are modelled without bumps or the car doesnt react to the modelled bumps. Its a lot more worrying if the prior is the case.

 

[oneloops]

Oh and yes it can happen under lateral load, it even has its own term to define it, stiction.

Stiction exists, yes. But in my opinion GT6 and GTS show it less than in RL (they should level up this), but AC and PC show it more than in RL.

In the chase cam is easier to see it for PCars, in AC it's more in the perception of physics and FFB than visual, and sometimes the vibrations into a corner begins and persists too much (in my opinion) after a real track bump ... but I understand if you disagree and if you think that in AC is very realistic.

Look at the drivers helmet, look how much it's moving up and down. Race tracks are bumpy, GTS ignores that.

Yes, I agree with you, GTS have to improve that a lot.

Its not exactly starange behaviour for cars running race suspension on bumpy tracks, with street circuits being even worse.

Very bumpy streets track there, 18 years ago.

 

[diesel97]

Do you have the Beta? All of Brands hatch track surface doesn't look brand new PD just didn't give the track bumps.

Yes I have the beta and yes most of the tracks look and feel the same(BH, Dragon trail, Tokyo) the Ovals look different but feel the same. Smooth as babies bottom

 

[Motor City Hami]

Stiction exists, yes. But in my opinion GT6 and GTS show it less than in RL (they should level up this), but AC and PC show it more than in RL.

In the chase cam is easier to see it for PCars, in AC it's more in the perception of physics and FFB than visual, and sometimes the vibrations into a corner begins and persists too much (in my opinion) after a real track bump ... but I understand if you disagree and if you think that in AC is very realistic.





Yes, I agree with you, GTS have to improve that a lot.



Very bumpy streets track there, 18 years ago.

Wow. Impressed with how Project Cars looks in the video. The car looks so much more natural in bumps and with body roll through the corners.

 

[Scaff]

Stiction exists, yes. But in my opinion GT6 and GTS show it less than in RL (they should level up this), but AC and PC show it more than in RL.

In the chase cam is easier to see it for PCars, in AC it's more in the perception of physics and FFB than visual, and sometimes the vibrations into a corner begins and persists too much (in my opinion) after a real track bump ... but I understand if you disagree and if you think that in AC is very realistic.

Ok, the tone of your post suggested that it should not be happening at all.

Now we will never know how accurate it is without knowing a huge number of variables, however at least one of the videos I posted shows it occuring to a degree greater than either AC or PCars.

Yes, I agree with you, GTS have to improve that a lot.

It's one of many areas it needs to improve a lot on unfortunately.

Very bumpy streets track there, 18 years ago.

And the two other videos from Brands Hatch?

One of which highlighted it occuring to a very largest degree.

 

[mirial]

I agree there needs to be a race school to show how to and not too because I have lost rating due to being rammed off track my racing was clean also I lost SR due to a player ghosting in front of me it let me pass through but at the cost of SR which is unfair as it was unavoidable as it was mid corner

Until those that have no concept of preparation for a given corner are forced to grasp this and see the benefits by having to pass a test, then everyone lapping 2+ seconds per lap off the ultimate pace will have to accept these hooligans with no discipline.....because Sony doesn't want to lose sales most likely. I think ABS is a huge factor here too since it encourages complacency.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Like @Haitauer i just couldn't stop watching that 2010 WTCC race! Could just not resist to learn something and taking it over to the console! Thanks for providing @Scaff !

I was watching NASCAR last night. I never was into that kinda racing. Alright, i played NASCAR by Papyrus on DOS waaaay back in the days... but just for the graphics and to drive a car I guess.
So, as GTS "put the oval tracks into my focus" i became more interested in it.
Last nights race was fun to watch. Being new to this strategical battle at 200mph is crazy!! But a lot of fun! 💡
Looking forward to some NASCAR races online.