GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[PzR Slim]

I tried your setup, the rear end feels quite loose now with both ARB settings.

I haven't driven on Nordschleife before with Evora or driven it for a while but gut feeling even in first corner is grip has been reduced by quite a bit. Seems to break traction more easily now and struggles to carry the speed in high speed corners as well as before, rear starts sliding a lot more. Will be interesting to compare if Big Willow comes back, BoP settings are still the same for this car. I think with this update they've done something with torque mappings especially in 1st gear, so it is harder to get wheelspin at low speed as engine bogs down so with SH it still feels like grip is reduced and RH grip increased slightly to me.

It is hard to get rear tyres to lock with no ABS in GT Sport, game limits maximum brake pressure. However, you can get it to in certain corners and the car trys to swap ends, even easier if you are on grass slightly and brake hard then, rear locks. Megane and Evo I tried it on as well and it does the same. Easiest way to lock the rear wheels is just using handbrake and outcome seems quite realistic.

Assetto Corsa has the S model which has more power but that has better drivability than the Evora in GT Sport, you can just full throttle in second gear without any real worry and it's insane how much you can ride the kerbs and on grass with wide open throttle. You can drive ham-fisted. I think Assetto Corsa is a bit too easy to drive which is why some might say it is simcade / has no simulation value, GT Sport is more understandable in you can attack the kerbs as grip reduction feels like low on GT6 and there is a lot of countersteer help, but on Assetto Corsa without that but still getting away with terrible driving shows up weaknesses in handling model.

AC allows you full brake pressure, but even with damaged car veering right, full brake, locking tyres, aggressive downshifts and also pressing handbrake, car went mostly straight which surprised me as in GT Sport the Evora without damage, the car is more likely to want to swap ends. GT doesn't even allow you to engage into lower gears too without being at right speed on controller, need to get a wheel to see if you can force it with H-shifter and clutch and I think if that happens then the car might come around even more abruptly and/or do a lot of damage to internals of the car if there was damage available.

Personally think PDI still need to do a lot of work with the physics, briefly drove the FWD cars and they understeer like crazy, feel horrible to drive. Not really any lift-off oversteer. Gr.3 cars in general still have poor drivability at low speeds. AWD cars feel the best to drive at the moment like the N300 Evo and Gr.4 GT-R, will be interesting to see how they drive without the countersteering aid. Hopefully PDI gives us Real options too and not just full on accessibility. I like what they've done in that regard so far, feels so easy to drive a decent lap compared to GT6 with controller and can be really competitive with top wheel users which was a surprise as I expected to dislike driving with controller a lot going by my previous GT5 and GT6 experiences. It is quite a lot of fun and not frustrating like pretty much every other sim racing game using a pad for me, cars in general turn when you want them to and you can drive on the ragged edge without worrying about any oversteer moments being likely an instant tank slapper due to steering being too slow in reacting and countersteering amount not enough. Think it will keep people's attention longer than say likes of AC and pCARS due to this.

This really is the exact opposite of my experience. I'm intrigued as to how you came to these conclusions.

 

[Scaff]

This really is the exact opposite of my experience. I'm intrigued as to how you cam to these conclusions.

I'm wondering who those saying AC is a simcade with no simulation value are?

 

[BrainsBush]

How many of us here is reporting at the beta forum? I have the no access issue, so cant do it my self.

sorry also (still) no access for me. Probably a reasonable explanation why we don't get access but we don't know?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm wondering who those saying AC is a simcade with no simulation value are?

Perhaps he hasn't discovered the simulation value slider yet

 

[SDSPOWER01]

@Scaff I re-posted your vid in the beta physics thread for further discussion, if you do not mind.

GTS Beta 1.05 vs Assetto Corsa and Drive Club (yes really).

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff I re-posted your vid in the beta physics thread for further discussion, if you do not mind.

No problem.

 

[JDMKING13]

Im going to have to agree with @Saidur_Ali on some points Even though they are diffrent models the Evora S in AC is just super easy for me to drive compared to GTS Evora. With the update the Evora is a lot easier to tame but I still find myself getting loose with it and I said it before its more lively than AC. Now what I dont agree with is calling AC simcade thats just disrespectfull, What AC shines to me is the authenticity of the experience, you want to drive like a bone head your going to pay the price. As Scaff has posted you cannot drive on curbs and grass full speed, its not going to happen. AC makes you pay big time for bad driving and I love it. GTS need to get better at this asap.

 

[diesel97]

Just a quick question about all this car physics talk, do you think the BoP is affecting results? Maybe when the cars have true power and weight it might drive different.

I think all this testing for beta feedback should be done on PD's default car settings(non-tuned)to start with to get a baseline and then you can go from there. Just my 2 cents

 

[JDMKING13]

Just a quick question about all this car physics talk, do you think the BoP is affecting results? Maybe when the cars have true power and weight it might drive different.

I think all this testing for beta feedback should be done on PD's default car settings(non-tuned)to start with to get a baseline and then you can go from there. Just my 2 cents

Im with you big time, That's why I was extremely upset when they took away Arcade mode. I was using comfort tires for the Nclass also. Don't get me wrong the video of Scaff driving on the curbs and grass will probably be the same result PD has to fix it, but I am truly eager to drive these cars in their true stock form.

 

[Scaff]

Just a quick question about all this car physics talk, do you think the BoP is affecting results? Maybe when the cars have true power and weight it might drive different.

I think all this testing for beta feedback should be done on PD's default car settings(non-tuned)to start with to get a baseline and then you can go from there. Just my 2 cents

In the case of the Evora, no.

The difference in weight is less than carrying a passenger and the difference in power is within tollerance from manufacturing. These are not huge differences and certainly not enough to explain being able to defy physics.

 

[diesel97]

In the case of the Evora, no.

The difference in weight is less than carrying a passenger and the difference in power is within tollerance from manufacturing. These are not huge differences and certainly not enough to explain being able to defy physics.

Yes, I understand on that car and I was just talking in general, with any testing if everyone uses the same variables the better the results.

 

[TurboNindo]

I haven't got Beta access yet (EU player) but this thread has made me want to raise a question based on my experience with Gran Turismo 6:

• In GT6 0.0 Camber was seen by many as the optimal setting, as anything deviating from that would result in slower laptimes. Has this been changed in Gran Turismo Sport?
  
  
• In GT6 the Ride Height parameters were "backwards", with a higher nose and lower rear-end providing increased turn-in (whereas it should be a higher rear-end and lower nose). Has this also been fixed?

I will let you know after I test it thanks

 

[Haitauer]

Just a quick question about all this car physics talk, do you think the BoP is affecting results? Maybe when the cars have true power and weight it might drive different.

I think all this testing for beta feedback should be done on PD's default car settings(non-tuned)to start with to get a baseline and then you can go from there. Just my 2 cents

Im with you big time, That's why I was extremely upset when they took away Arcade mode. I was using comfort tires for the Nclass also. Don't get me wrong the video of Scaff driving on the curbs and grass will probably be the same result PD has to fix it, but I am truly eager to drive these cars in their true stock form.

In the case of the Evora, no.

The difference in weight is less than carrying a passenger and the difference in power is within tollerance from manufacturing. These are not huge differences and certainly not enough to explain being able to defy physics.

Yes, I understand on that car and I was just talking in general, with any testing if everyone uses the same variables the better the results.

Im still more worried about possible dumbening of physics by forced aids. Ruins all cars equaly. I see so much good chassis movement and weight transfer, but then someone takes over.. Some.. Thing..

 

[Scaff]

Im still more worried about possible dumbening of physics by forced aids. Ruins all cars equaly. I see so much good chassis movement and weight transfer, but then someone takes over.. Some.. Thing..

It may well be the case, but enough still points to PD also still using a single point of rotation model, which doesn't help.

 

[PJTierney]

I will let you know after I test it thanks

I believe these 2 settings areas are working in a more true to life fashion now, based on the numbers I see in @praiano63's tuning sheets.

 

[Haitauer]

@Scaff I re-posted your vid in the beta physics thread for further discussion, if you do not mind.

It may well be the case, but enough still points to PD also still using a single point of rotation model, which doesn't help.

watched Scaffs video, and an idea came to my mind. Does anything show that GTS has any kind of horisontal modeling of the tirewall at all? Like the curbs - I can clearly feel wheel/car going up and down on curb, but i can not recall anything pushing the tire sideways.. like theres no horizontal bump/crashmodel for the tire - only for the car body.

 

[Scaff]

watched Scaffs video, and an idea came to my mind. Does anything show that GTS has any kind of horisontal modeling of the tirewall at all? Like the curbs - I can clearly feel wheel/car going up and down on curb, but i can not recall anything pushing the tire sideways.. like theres no horizontal bump/crashmodel for the tire - only for the car body.

Its one clear difference between AC and GTS.

The higher curbs at the ring in AC will push the car sideways as well as up, so you get pushed off line and have to deal with forces in two directions.

In GTS you are only having to deal with the vertical travel of the wheel and as a result if the direction of travel is pretty much straight then the car doesn't change direction or get unsettled in any plane other than vertical. All of which points to a still fairly simple tyre model and a single point of rotation model.

 

[alifra]

Did more tests. Nurburgring-FerrariGR3-no assists: really good feedback on steering wheel, bumps, vibrations, every thing is there. Maybe it's only Dragon Tail that has problems with almost no feedback... anyone?

 

[Haitauer]

Did more tests. Nurburgring-FerrariGR3-no assists: really good feedback on steering wheel, bumps, vibrations, every thing is there. Maybe it's only Dragon Tail that has problems with almost no feedback... anyone?

Still wating for eu tracks to change. Gr3 tests useless at tiny oval.

Its one clear difference between AC and GTS.

The higher curbs at the ring in AC will push the car sideways as well as up, so you get pushed off line and have to deal with forces in two directions.

In GTS you are only having to deal with the vertical travel of the wheel and as a result if the direction of travel is pretty much straight then the car doesn't change direction or get unsettled in any plane other than vertical. All of which points to a still fairly simple tyre model and a single point of rotation model.

As a finn familiar with snow/dirt driving - how are they going to simulate that without horizontal tire model..

 

[JDMKING13]

Did more tests. Nurburgring-FerrariGR3-no assists: really good feedback on steering wheel, bumps, vibrations, every thing is there. Maybe it's only Dragon Tail that has problems with almost no feedback... anyone?

I am not playing with a wheel, but the ring has the best feeling when it comes to the feedback I get from my controller. I think the problem is all the other tracks are extremely smooth. There are maybe a few bumps here and there but nothing compared to AC or PC. That's a huge problem I really hope they add bumps to the roads, I mean they added the dirt/dust effects on Dragon trail which is cool.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I am not playing with a wheel, but the ring has the best feeling when it comes to the feedback I get from my controller. I think the problem is all the other tracks are extremely smooth. There are maybe a few bumps here and there but nothing compared to AC or PC. That's a huge problem I really hope they add bumps to the roads, I mean they added the dirt/dust effects on Dragon trail which is cool.

It might be a case of bumps being there but not coming through the FFB or a bit of both, depending on the track of course.

 

[JDMKING13]

It might be a case of bumps being there but not coming through the FFB or a bit of both, depending on the track of course.

Man I don't know but I wish more people would complain about it. Brands In AC compared to GTS track surface is night and day. Dont get me wrong some turns feel great like coming down the Hill you get the vibration and even chassis noise but after that everything is pretty much smooth like butter. AC is just great in the aspects of the bumps and track surface really bumps up the driving experience in my opinion.

 

[Haitauer]

It might be a case of bumps being there but not coming through the FFB or a bit of both, depending on the track of course.

Man I don't know but I wish more people would complain about it. Brands In AC compared to GTS track surface is night and day. Dont get me wrong some turns feel great like coming down the Hill you get the vibration and even chassis noise but after that everything is pretty much smooth like butter. AC is just great in the aspects of the bumps and track surface really bumps up the driving experience in my opinion.

Maybe its not the small bumbs but more about tilt of the track thats missing from ffb. And were back at the lack of horizontal forces on the tire model.

 

[Scaff]

As a finn familiar with snow/dirt driving - how are they going to simulate that without horizontal tire model..

They can't, and that's quite a problem.

Maybe its not the small bumbs but more about tilt of the track thats missing from ffb. And were back at the lack of horizontal forces on the tire model.

Unlikely, as they would have to be bigger than you would get away with on a race certified for racing. It unfortunately seems that PD laser scanned the tracks more for dimensional accuracy that for surface detail accuracy.

The 'ring is better than the others in GTS, but its still not in the place it should be.

 

[Haitauer]

I just wish PDI would put aside all accessibility for just one day and let us try the physics at its rawest and unforgiving form. Just to see what it is capable of.

Btw How does minimum FFB sensitity feel with hi-end wheels? G29 doesnt seem to be able to make anything but rattle out of the uncompressed ffb detail..

Edit

Ok.. Races changed. Brands indy n300, willow gr4 and dragon trail gr3. So far gr3 very grippy and curb happy to a point, but also spins if messing around. So far easy 1.39.3 with 458 gt3. can hear chassis hitting curb if going over one... Car not lightening in the undulating shikane like it did in 1.04.

Willow gr4 4C ok so far. Didnt test that much as once again something funky in top10 as first few going almost 10s faster..

N300 VERY slippery..  tts and lancer skidding like crazy with the tune from 1.05 NBR. have to check if different tires. Sport hard if i recall..

 

[bokimoto]

This version is awful ... I promise to stay optimistic that v1.06 is for drivers

 

[Haitauer]

Here is my cleanish lap 1:39.3 at Dragon Trail yesterday (room for improvement still). Very grippy, but somehow entertaining - maybe 458 GT3 is such an unbalanced car in the game that it feels nice occasionaly after v1.05. Though constant flooring the pedal on 3rd gear and letting them spin feels like a death wish in 458, but it seems "the force" is strong with this one.. Have to check few "fail videos" to see more of the physics. There is occasional wiggles over curbs, but i recall its because loosing/regaining grip on a jump - not the curb pushing sideways.. but its something it separates each wheels grip and not just one point..




Here is something to talk about..

 

[TurboNindo]

Here is my cleanish lap 1:39.3 at Dragon Trail yesterday (room for improvement still). Very grippy, but somehow entertaining - maybe 458 GT3 is such an unbalanced car in the game that it feels nice occasionaly after v1.05. Though constant flooring the pedal on 3rd gear and letting them spin feels like a death wish in 458, but it seems "the force" is strong with this one.. Have to check few "fail videos" to see more of the physics. There is occasional wiggles over curbs, but i recall its because loosing/regaining grip on a jump - not the curb pushing sideways.. but its something it separates each wheels grip and not just one point..



Here is something to talk about..

That was awesome

 

[TurboNindo]

I believe these 2 settings areas are working in a more true to life fashion now, based on the numbers I see in @praiano63's tuning sheets.

Yeah it seems ok but I actually never knew about that in GT6 @praiano63 has helped me I did my first tune on the megane RS N300 my best lap on Brands Hatch indy 57.346 which 3 seconds off top ten stars

 

[mirial]

This version is awful ... I promise to stay optimistic that v1.06 is for drivers

And if so, it will probably cause outrage amongst those that Sony are looking to appease.

By making GT more accessible, PD are in effect making it far less fun and challenging long term for everybody. The biggest problem I see amongst those that drive erratically is they have never learnt the very basic concept of preparation for a corner after a straight. And this is most likely a habit that has been brought about by exaggerated forgiveness in the car replicated, and assists etc. When all assists are switched off, learners soon grasp the concept of getting 90% of the work done before cornering takes place. Anyone can learn to get to a basic level of competence such as what is required to get a national racing license if they have an interest in cars or driving.....and the thing is, they would get much more enjoyment because with practice the sim would change from being demanding to fun and challenging.