GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[Vspectra]

Has anyone posted on the beta forums regarding physics feedback and concerns?

 

[JDMKING13]

What you both need to do is tell us why they feel right? Not just say they feel right. What is it about them compared to the real world that makes them right? @Scaff has pointed out why the Evora in particular feels wrong and I agree with him. State your case.

Who said they feel right? I have never driven an Evora especially like I do in GTS. All I said was the car is not easy as heck to drive in the new update. It is way easier to drive then the last update though, it was extremely hard to keep the car balance in and out of turns. It always took me more laps to adjust to the Evora than other cars. I still have to adjust but the curve is not as huge as it was before. The crazy thing is I can control the car better but my laps times are slower than before. I can only get a 1:50 when before I was doing 1:48'

 

[praiano63]

Who said they feel right? I have never driven an Evora especially like I do in GTS. All I said was the car is not easy as heck to drive in the new update. It is way easier to drive then the last update though, it was extremely hard to keep the car balance in and out of turns. It always took me more laps to adjust to the Evora than other cars. I still have to adjust but the curve is not as huge as it was before. The crazy thing is I can control the car better but my laps times are slower than before. I can only get a 1:50 when before I was doing 1:48'

I have also lost 2 and 1/2 second with the Evora on BH GP. Need to revisit totally the old tune, the car is very different now.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Most likely PD increased the tire grip ( maybe lateral grip ? )

I thought the Evora was quite planted in 1.04 but really tail happy in this update, however driving on the Nordschleife compared to Big Willow so hard to be definitive after a few minutes driving on latest update. Seems there is less grip now and feels like also the Evora has Toyota Prius tyres to go with the Toyota engine. Easy to drive sideways though, GT does a good job on making everyone feel they are as good as Stefan Roser going sideways with countersteer magic.

 

[BrainsBush]

I have also lost 2 and 1/2 second with the Evora on BH GP. Need to revisit totally the old tune, the car is very different now.

On the positive side: it keeps you busy with setup tuning and sharing with the community
Imagine you were done with setups....that would be boring

 

[JDMKING13]

I thought the Evora was quite planted in 1.04 but really tail happy in this update, however driving on the Nordscheliefe compared to Big Willow so hard to be definitive after a few minutes driving on latest update. Seems there is less grip now and feels like also the Evora has Toyota Prius tyres to go with the Toyota engine. Easy to drive sideways though, GT does a good job on making everyone feel they are as good as Stefan Roser going sideways with countersteer magic.

You feel it has less grip now? I actually feel a lot more confident with the car than the update before but im slower. With the GR.3 McLaren and Audi I am faster on dragon trail going from mid 1:43 to high 1:41.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

You feel it has less grip now? I actually feel a lot more confident with the car than the update before but im slower. With the GR.3 McLaren and Audi I am faster on dragon trail going from mid 1:43 to high 1:41.

The RH tyres has gained grip and SH reduced grip IMO, only driven on SH for a few minutes though and for RH going by how GT-R feels.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I thought the Evora was quite planted in 1.04 but really tail happy in this update, however driving on the Nordscheliefe compared to Big Willow so hard to be definitive after a few minutes driving on latest update. Seems there is less grip now and feels like also the Evora has Toyota Prius tyres to go with the Toyota engine. Easy to drive sideways though, GT does a good job on making everyone feel they are as good as Stefan Roser going sideways with countersteer magic.

Why can't PD release detailed change log ? Would have made life much easier Did the tune for the Evora that I gave you worked in 1.05 ? You can lower the ARB to 4 2, instead 5 3 that you prefer at Big Willow, that may be better at the Ring.

The RH tyres has gained grip and SH reduced grip IMO, only driven on SH for a few minutes though and for RH going by how GT-R feels.

Are you sure SH has reduced grip ? PD got balls, previously in 1.04, SH on GTS is roughly similar to CS in GT6 in terms of lap time performance, cornering speed, braking points etc ( using almost exact same setup - power/weight/suspension/lsd/gearing, on both GT6 and GTS with Genesis and Evora at Big Willow ) The ARB min-max range is different, though with same value, the result is very close in handling. The Evora was balanced on both.

 

[PJTierney]

Im playing with a DS4 for now until I order a wheel. GTS feels the most natural to me with a controller compared to AC and Pcars, but with all these games playing on the controller is not ideal. The feed back will never feel natural to me as with a wheel. @PJTierney what game feels best for you with a controller?

Forza Motorsport 6 feels best, although Xbox games have an advantage as each trigger has its own rumble motor, and their implementation in Forza is highly optimised (Turn 10 had an input into the hardware's design so that the triggers were specifically tailored for racing games).

 

[Scaff]

Here we go.

 

[praiano63]

On the positive side: it keeps you busy with setup tuning and sharing with the community
Imagine you were done with setups....that would be boring

I want my 1197 cars back.

 

[Haitauer]

Maybe PD is simply testing their physics options but I find it once again very worrying we are "testing" stuff like that. I can't believe this game is almost ready for release neither. I expect an early 2018 release.

IMO, this is a result of the Beta.
PD have been monitoring the online races, and judging from the videos I've seen, they've seen people struggling around the tracks and crashing into everyone and everything.
No wonder they've made the game easier for the masses.

I believe PDI is testing and optimizing some driving aids and accessibility by forcing them on at the moment. Only way to get feedback from people not usually using them - and to compare performance.

 

[Scaff]

I believe PDI is testing and optimizing some driving aids and accessibility by forcing them on at the moment. Only way to get feedback from people not usually using them - and to compare performance.

That's a collosal leap and wouldn't allow them to make comparisons at all. For that they need people using them and not using them.

Besides ABS off is clearly off, the tyres lock up, if just has no affect on stability.

 

[Haitauer]

That's a collosal leap and wouldn't allow them to make comparisons at all. For that they need people using them and not using them.

Besides ABS off is clearly off, the tyres lock up, if just has no affect on stability.

So its a no. Ok - forgive me for thinking they might be trying out things in a beta test.. Test.. ing stuff. 💡

And cant possibly be testing aids with abs still off..

Sorry - got a bit sarcastic there.

 

[another_jakhole]

Just have to be using very different ffb settings compared to pre 1.05

Try this.

FFB Torque 8
FFB Sensitivity 2
Controller sensitivity 7

Use the power steering function.

 

[Scaff]

So its a no. Ok - forgive me for thinking they might be trying out things in a beta test.. Test.. ing stuff. 💡

And cant possibly be testing aids with abs still off..

Sorry - got a bit sarcastic there.

You did say you believed they had forced the aids on, as an explanation for what is happening in the beta physics wise. Tyre's locking up is a pretty clear sign that's not the case.

As for the sarcasm, I've been a beta tester for Sony for over a decade, never once has deliberately missleading people in the name of 'testing stuff' been something that has happened.

They are certainly testing something out, its a new physics system, you know like the change log details.

If would seem that your unwilling to accept that they may have moved in the wrong direction in that regard and what to find an explanation, no matter how wild it is, that confirms a bias you have set in stone.

 

[Haitauer]

You did say you believed they had forced the aids on, as an explanation for what is happening in the beta physics wise. Tyre's locking up is a pretty clear sign that's not the case.

As for the sarcasm, I've been a beta tester for Sony for over a decade, never once has deliberately missleading people in the name of 'testing stuff' been something that has happened.

They are certainly testing something out, its a new physics system, you know like the change log details.

If would seem that your unwilling to accept that they may have moved in the wrong direction in that regard and what to find an explanation, no matter how wild it is, that confirms a bias you have set in stone.

It just has a very strong feeling of GT6 SRF to it..

Try this.

FFB Torque 8
FFB Sensitivity 2
Controller sensitivity 7

Use the power steering function.

Im trying to figure out how ffb sensitivity works.. Couldnt still quite figure it out.

 

[another_jakhole]

It just has a very strong feeling of GT6 SRF to it..



Im trying to figure out how ffb sensitivity works.. Couldnt still quite figure it out.

I figure it's the lower the number, the more "action" and the more subtle, minute feedback the steering wheel will compute. Set it too low, and it becomes too complex for a belt-driven steering wheel to register all the feedback consistently.

Still, these settings could be hit or miss. I'm using a G27. Definitely since I've used these settings, I feel confident in saying it works a lot better than anything I've tried before.

 

[PzR Slim]

Set it too low, and it becomes too complex for a belt-driven steering wheel to register all the feedback consistently.

Can you explain what you mean by this and give us some examples please.

 

[another_jakhole]

Can you explain what you mean by this and give us some examples please.

I said that I figured meaning it's conjecture. I'm not 100% sure. Nonetheless, I edited my post for a bit more clarity.

So, this:
"the lower the number, the more "action" and the more subtle, minute feedback the steering wheel will compute. Set it too low, and it becomes too complex for a belt-driven steering wheel to register all the feedback consistently."

So if you set it too high, the feedback will result in providing less responses. This is from what I gather from the description and sticking with a FFB sensitivity number under 4. I've only recently started to experiment with it, then I saw @OdeFinn post about it.

Go ahead and ask what Odefinn thinks and if they can clarify.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ur-hidden-ffb-potential.355415/#post-11797580



My idea if what the FFB sensitivity might be the opposite. I didn't fully understand what @OdeFinn meant. Still, I've always felt lower numbered FFB sensitivity settings to be better when they're low.

 

[Haitauer]

I figure it's the lower the number, the more "action" and the more subtle, minute feedback the steering wheel will compute. Set it too low, and it becomes too complex for a belt-driven steering wheel to register all the feedback consistently.

Still, these settings could be hit or miss. I'm using a G27. Definitely since I've used these settings, I feel confident in saying it works a lot better than anything I've tried before.

Can you explain what you mean by this and give us some examples please.

I said that I figured meaning it's conjecture. I'm not 100% sure. Nonetheless, I edited my post for a bit more clarity.

So, this:
"the lower the number, the more "action" and the more subtle, minute feedback the steering wheel will compute. Set it too low, and it becomes too complex for a belt-driven steering wheel to register all the feedback consistently."

So if you set it too high, the feedback will result in providing less responses. This is from what I gather from the description and sticking with a FFB sensitivity number under 4. I've only recently started to experiment with it, then I saw @OdeFinn post about it.

Go ahead and ask what Odefinn thinks and if they can clarify.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ur-hidden-ffb-potential.355415/#post-11797580



My idea if what the FFB sensitivity might be the opposite. I didn't fully understand what @OdeFinn meant. Still, I've always felt lower numbered FFB sensitivity settings to be better when they're low.

Based on my own test: lower sensitivity gives more detailed yes weaker feedback. Like for me using g29 sensitivity 4 seems to be the sweetspot - i can feel weight, grip, curbs (edge clime descent structure). Any lower is more vague "rattle" like and higher is more force and more numb. Using ffb7/4 now.

But then a new notice. Is it/has it been normal to have speed sensitive steering without aids? Noticed my steering angle changes as i accelerate yet the wheel stays the same. Here a little video - i turn and keep my wheel at 90 degree and accelerate.. this might be the reason i seem to catch slides a lot faster..

 

[PzR Slim]

Read a thread on the over on the official beta forums today in regard to steering wheels. Can anyone who uses a wheel try this. Take a car and drive around a corner reasonably slowly, say 40 mph, maintain the same steering angle on your wheel and then come off the accelerator or brake very slightly. As you are doing this watch the steering indicator above the rev counter. I've tried this and as your speed reduces the steering indicator shows less and less steering angle even though you are holding your steering wheel at the same steering angle. Surely this can only mean that even with a steering wheel the steering is speed sensitive.

 

[4everdelayed]

Has anyone posted on the beta forums regarding physics feedback and concerns?

No, not really. Everyone seems pretty happy about the new physics...

It's not very likely that PD will read any of what is said here. So I would kindly suggest everyone here to voice their opinion (positive or negative) on the Sony beta forums directly.

 

[Haitauer]

Read a thread on the over on the official beta forums today in regard to steering wheels. Can anyone who uses a wheel try this. Take a car and drive around a corner reasonably slowly, say 40 mph, maintain the same steering angle on your wheel and then come off the accelerator or brake very slightly. As you are doing this watch the steering indicator above the rev counter. I've tried this and as your speed reduces the steering indicator shows less and less steering angle even though you are holding your steering wheel at the same steering angle. Surely this can only mean that even with a steering wheel the steering is speed sensitive.

Confirmed - video above your post

 

[Marcus Garvey]

Wait, are you folks referring to the g-meter? It's been a bit since I've turned on the beta, but I don't recall a steering angle sensor/graph.

 

[PzR Slim]

Wait, are you folks referring to the g-meter? It's been a bit since I've turned on the beta, but I don't recall a steering angle sensor/graph.

Stop dead and turn your wheel, see the 'g meter' moving

 

[Haitauer]

You did say you believed they had forced the aids on, as an explanation for what is happening in the beta physics wise. Tyre's locking up is a pretty clear sign that's not the case.

As for the sarcasm, I've been a beta tester for Sony for over a decade, never once has deliberately missleading people in the name of 'testing stuff' been something that has happened.

They are certainly testing something out, its a new physics system, you know like the change log details.

If would seem that your unwilling to accept that they may have moved in the wrong direction in that regard and what to find an explanation, no matter how wild it is, that confirms a bias you have set in stone.

Read a thread on the over on the official beta forums today in regard to steering wheels. Can anyone who uses a wheel try this. Take a car and drive around a corner reasonably slowly, say 40 mph, maintain the same steering angle on your wheel and then come off the accelerator or brake very slightly. As you are doing this watch the steering indicator above the rev counter. I've tried this and as your speed reduces the steering indicator shows less and less steering angle even though you are holding your steering wheel at the same steering angle. Surely this can only mean that even with a steering wheel the steering is speed sensitive.

Confirmed - video above your post

I return to my question could they be testing the aids by forcing them on before giving a choice/option in the settings. Smelling SRF and speed sensitive steering at the moment..

Then again might just me a 🤬 load of extra grip + speed sensitive/exponential steering giving the feeling of SRF.

 

[OdeFinn]

Can you explain what you mean by this and give us some examples please.

I said that I figured meaning it's conjecture. I'm not 100% sure. Nonetheless, I edited my post for a bit more clarity.

So, this:
"the lower the number, the more "action" and the more subtle, minute feedback the steering wheel will compute. Set it too low, and it becomes too complex for a belt-driven steering wheel to register all the feedback consistently."

So if you set it too high, the feedback will result in providing less responses. This is from what I gather from the description and sticking with a FFB sensitivity number under 4. I've only recently started to experiment with it, then I saw @OdeFinn post about it.

Go ahead and ask what Odefinn thinks and if they can clarify.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ur-hidden-ffb-potential.355415/#post-11797580



My idea if what the FFB sensitivity might be the opposite. I didn't fully understand what @OdeFinn meant. Still, I've always felt lower numbered FFB sensitivity settings to be better when they're low.

FFB sensitivity is just multiplier for actual FFB effects, only difference is FFB sensitivity uses canned FFB effects to give you "extra feel" of FFB.
Actual FFB effects are controlled from FFB torque value, technically best value should be 10 on torque and "0" on FFB sensitivity, but most wheels aren't able to produce good feedback around center, but slight boost from FFB sensitivity gives you sensible touch around center, meaning you'll get every road bump on wheel by those canned FFB effects even near to center.
Using higher value on FFB sensitivity wil easily numb actual FFB effects, therefore you need to find balance where you can get both of those effects, canned and real stay on similar strenght, on Logitech G27 8/2 is kinda good balance, someone might want more centering spring effect and use 3 on FFB sensitivity, personally I feel that to start numb actual FFB effects and making harder to feel tire sweet spot during cornering.
Controller sensitivity is just how tight rubber band is between your steering input and game reaction to it, higher number represents tighter band, no lag on steering inputs, lower number gives lag to game reaction from your inputs.

Read a thread on the over on the official beta forums today in regard to steering wheels. Can anyone who uses a wheel try this. Take a car and drive around a corner reasonably slowly, say 40 mph, maintain the same steering angle on your wheel and then come off the accelerator or brake very slightly. As you are doing this watch the steering indicator above the rev counter. I've tried this and as your speed reduces the steering indicator shows less and less steering angle even though you are holding your steering wheel at the same steering angle. Surely this can only mean that even with a steering wheel the steering is speed sensitive.

This same effect was on GT6 and GT5 too, it was caller "steering mode" or Something similar, only "simulation" choice was giving zero speed sensitive, other options were just adding more and more speed sensitivity, hopefully GTS will contain same options and then we have choice to switch it off.

 

[FPV MIC]

Here we go.

I noticed that in you're video (keep 'em coming btw) you said that all aids were off and yet there was red in the throttle and brake percentage indicators for both ABS and Traction Control. PD hand holding maybe

Traction Control

ABS

 

[Scaff]

I noticed that in you're video (keep 'em coming btw) you said that all aids were off and yet there was red in the throttle and brake percentage indicators for both ABS and Traction Control. PD hand holding maybe

Traction Control
View attachment 645414

ABS
View attachment 645416

Good spot, at that stage I did still have ABS and TC on, if you check from 1.33 onwards you will see they don't appear. That's from recordings without ABS and TC.

You do still get it on the brake, but I think that may be when the tyres lock up.