GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[Haitauer]

I think ABS is a huge factor here too since it encourages complacency

Have to disagree. ABS is part of modern street cars and even some race cars. Yes it should be simulated accordingly, but i believe ABS lets racers concentrate on more important actions on a race than brake pressure. Braking point, driving line, apex, traffic - all this should get more attention than modulating breaking. One can decide not to use ABS, but its too big of a factor accessibility wise to leave out.

Hardcore simracers aside. I my self mostly use minimum abs and occasionally check if any advantage can be gained by turning ABS off. I guess ABS systems are so advanced, that its advicable to use them in real life too. Not like few years back when abs and tcs were a lot more intrusive and average driver could perform better without them if not taken by surprice.

If someone is ramming other drivers it doesnt matter if one uses abs or not.

Rambling here

 

[oneloops]

Now we will never know how accurate it is without knowing a huge number of variables, however at least one of the videos I posted shows it occuring to a degree greater than either AC or PCars.

I think that the track bump level in AC is ok, GTS should match that level in order to be more realistic.
But I don't agree how AC Corsa physics handles the bumping effect (neither in the case of Pcars). For me, the cars seem heavier and clunkier than in real life, not enough agile in movements and in handling reactions after bumping, after stiction and after loosing grip.

For example, with the 911 GT3 Cup at Brands Hatch special race event, with AC there is no room for pushing nor for fun, the car is always bumping ... I had this afternoon 4 races x 5 laps (20 laps) to refresh my feel about it. It should be fun playing with the grip and not waiting to stop bumping. I make 1'29" pace, it's not an alien pace (not very bad neither I think), but I can't push or enjoy pushing...

No aids at all, only abs, aerodynamics set to max, and front height set to 15 in all wheels as only suspension setup.

Curiously, when I first played GT4 I played with traction control, not without. I don't think I appreciated just how good the physics were until I played the game without traction control. Before this, I actually though GT6 was the best in terms of physics, but now I'm not so sure. See, with the powerful cars in GT4, it was quite hard to launch them properly and it was highly rewarding when you did. That didn't happen in GT6 - the tyres were far too grippy for that. I am kinda annoyed that I can say that the cars in GT4 feel very good compared to GT6. It's a 12 year old game for crying out loud, it should feel that way. But it doesn't in this instance. It's very disappointing when you think about it if I'm honest, so I'm hoping the GT Sport physics are the best ever in a GT game. They have to be if I'm to enjoy my experience- and keep up with competition. Which they aren't really doing right now. Physics have to be polished at launch or I will not be happy.

Sometimes is only about putting harder tyres to feel it right... I hope GTS will be not too much gripy in order to have fun with grip at braking, turning and with throttle inputs. At least we could put harder compounds to equilibrate that, but is not fun when online everybody puts the softer ones.

 

[mirial]

Have to disagree. ABS is part of modern street cars and even some race cars. Yes it should be simulated accordingly, but i believe ABS lets racers concentrate on more important actions on a race than brake pressure

It's the basic concept of getting all your preparation done by the time you reach the critical point of fully releasing the brake pedal which I don't believe has been grasped by many that just go barrelling into corners. It's like doing the long jump and getting all your preparation done by the time you launch from the white line. If it were grasped, I think we would see much more civilised driving at all levels because the discipline would be routine. And by default, the very nature of this routine would mean drivers are more likely to be able to anticipate what the car will do a split second before it happens......and they would become enlightened.

I'll say quite confidently that almost all those who do it for a living detest driving assists of any kind - it undermines their ability to do it themselves and considering braking is by far the most delicate operation, I think those that are best at it most certainly wouldn't want any device to neutralise that advantage. It should be banned from racing IMO. As far as the game is concerned, it's so much more fun without ABS and carefully balancing all that weight over the front wheels on entry, but it's a shame that it is a disadvantage on almost all tracks with at least one long, slow corner that requires heavy braking.

And psychologically, braking should also be seen as an exercise with which to steer the car rather than slow down, and ABS does tend to slow the car down ever so slightly more than without.....and it's pretty chronic in the hairpins on some cars where you have to brake earlier than ideal just to make a reasonable apex.

 

[JDMKING13]

It's the basic concept of getting all your preparation done by the time you reach the critical point of fully releasing the brake pedal which I don't believe has been grasped by many that just go barrelling into corners. It's like doing the long jump and getting all your preparation done by the time you launch from the white line. If it were grasped, I think we would see much more civilised driving at all levels because the discipline would be routine.

I'll say quite confidently that almost all those who do it for a living detest driving assists of any kind - it undermines their ability to do it themselves and considering braking is by far the most delicate operation, I think those that are best at it most certainly wouldn't want any device to neutralise that advantage. It should be banned from racing IMO. As far as the game is concerned, it's so much more fun without ABS and carefully balancing all that weight over the front wheels on entry, but it's a shame that it is a disadvantage on almost all tracks with at least one long, slow corner that requires heavy braking.

And psychologically, braking should also be seen as an exercise with which to steer the car rather than slow down, and ABS does tend to slow the car down ever so slightly more than without.....and it's pretty chronic in the hairpins on some cars where you have to brake earlier than ideal just to make a reasonable apex.

Do you know which racing series don't allow abs? I know In AC I was driving the 458 GT2 car and I normally leave ABS on factory setting and that car did not have abs.

 

[mirial]

Do you know which racing series don't allow abs? I know In AC I was driving the 458 GT2 car and I normally leave ABS on factory setting and that car did not have abs.

As far as I know it's prohibited in all single seater categories, but I'd have to do some digging to find what Touring car/GT series it is banned.

 

[psychoazubi]

Do you know which racing series don't allow abs? I know In AC I was driving the 458 GT2 car and I normally leave ABS on factory setting and that car did not have abs.

As far as I know it's prohibited in all single seater categories, but I'd have to do some digging to find what Touring car/GT series it is banned.

GTE, TCR, WTCC and DTM do not have ABS, it is allowed in GT3 and GT4

 

[Scaff]

Road Cars at Brands Hatch. Assetto Corsa and GTS, Ford Focus ST and Alfa Guiletta.

I think that the track bump level in AC is ok, GTS should match that level in order to be more realistic.
But I don't agree how AC Corsa physics handles the bumping effect (neither in the case of Pcars). For me, the cars seem heavier and clunkier than in real life, not enough agile in movements and in handling reactions after bumping, after stiction and after loosing grip.

For example, with the 911 GT3 Cup at Brands Hatch special race event, with AC there is no room for pushing nor for fun, the car is always bumping ... I had this afternoon 4 races x 5 laps (20 laps) to refresh my feel about it. It should be fun playing with the grip and not waiting to stop bumping. I make 1'29" pace, it's not an alien pace (not very bad neither I think), but I can't push or enjoy pushing...

No aids at all, only abs, aerodynamics set to max, and front height set to 15 in all wheels as only suspension setup.



Sometimes is only about putting harder tyres to feel it right... I hope GTS will be not too much gripy in order to have fun with grip at braking, turning and with throttle inputs. At least we could put harder compounds to equilibrate that, but is not fun when online everybody puts the softer ones.

Once again you seem to be linking what you find fun with accuracy of the physics model. It doesn't work like that.

Watch any GT3 challenge cup race from a bumpy circuit and you will see them behave in pretty much the same way, hell just about any GT3 car will on a bumpy track as watching the CLAN events from the 'ring shows.

 

[oneloops]

Road Cars at Brands Hatch. Assetto Corsa and GTS, Ford Focus ST and Alfa Guiletta.





Once again you seem to be linking what you find fun with accuracy of the physics model. It doesn't work like that.

Watch any GT3 challenge cup race from a bumpy circuit and you will see them behave in pretty much the same way, hell just about any GT3 car will on a bumpy track as watching the CLAN events from the 'ring shows.

Yes, for me a racing car (in real life and in a sim too) should be fun and exciting. If I can't push playing with the grip because of long bumping sequences while cornering it's not neither fun nor realistic in my opinion. Just try to have fun (if you want to try it) at that event if you can, for me it's disappointing... that car should be a pleasure to push and ride going fast.

Even lapping in 1'29" it's a repetitive and not fun experience for me because of that issues.

Yes, I already saw many GT3 races and their hard suspensions make them bounce a lot when they pass over bumps, but I don't think that they can't "play with the lateral grip" nor pushing the car when cornering and they don't have to wait to stop bouncing like with AC or with PCars.

 

[Animera]

Isn't part of the fun setting up your car so it rides the bumps better than others and so gives you a competitive edge?

 

[oneloops]

Isn't part of the fun setting up your car so it rides the bumps better than others and so gives you a competitive edge?

Yes, that's make a better handling, (I raised a little the front suspension from 10 to 15 in this car to decrease oversteering) but I found this issue with every car in AC, it's about the overall AC physics that doesn't match with what I wait for a realistic sim. Instead I have fun with others areas like cars beautifully modelled, great sounds, hard AI, and a high challenge to keep the car in the track going fast, it's a great sim or racing-game overall for me.

 

[another_jakhole]

At 4:25, there's a huge lock up before the carousel.



Is it difficult to lock up with ABS off on street cars only or was it meant to be the case for race cars as well?

 

[Scaff]

Yes, for me a racing car (in real life and in a sim too) should be fun and exciting.

Reality should by the benchmark, not your subjective idea of 'fun'.

If I can't push playing with the grip because of long bumping sequences while cornering it's not neither fun nor realistic in my opinion.

Reality should by the benchmark, not your subjective idea of what you can or can't do.

It certainly can be done and you have already been shown footage of cars acting in pretty much the same way.

Just try to have fun (if you want to try it) at that event if you can, for me it's disappointing... that car should be a pleasure to push and ride going fast.

Its is, and I've raced that car and track combo, and many other tracks with that car, I have been doing so since the pack came out. Its far from disappointing, here's Spa, a track as bumpy and demanding as Brands, didn't disappoint.

Even lapping in 1'29" it's a repetitive and not fun experience for me because of that issues.

Yes, I already saw many GT3 races and their hard suspensions make them bounce a lot when they pass through, but I don't think that they can't "play with the lateral grip" nor pushing the car when cornering and they don't have to wait to stop bouncing like with AC or with PCars.

You've driven cars of this nature in reality then, to be able to make that call (and in answer to a potential retort - yes I have)?

However once again, simply because you are not able to do it, doesn't mean ut can't be done. I have very little issue with the GT3 Challenge cars in this regard, pushing the cars can certainly be done, but it does require a fine balance and the throttle needs to be rolled on as the steering is unwound. You can't just pass the apex and bury the throttle in a 911, as that's just going to result in understeer. You are also not going to be able to tune it out either, its how the natural balance of the car is, and does require a driver to adapt to the car, as attempting to brute force it into a driving style not suited for it will result in frustration.

 

[Haitauer]

Yep.. Brands IS flat.. No tire movement there. 🤬

Maybe gts is going to be more of an esports GAME and less a simulator. But then i can enjoy that.. I do have Assetto and Pcars on the harddrive if i want to challenge myself more. hope Assettos online lobbies can be brought to life.

But atleast i got the gr4 gt-r.. and 3 seconds off Dragon Trail

 

[ScottPuss20]

One thing related to bumps - Project Cars has a tonne compared to GT, and some can really unsettle your car, which makes life all the more difficult for me if I apply too much power at the wrong time. The hill after the first chicane at Zolder is a brilliant example of this, and Willow Springs has quite a lot of bumps too. The tracks have far more character as a result. I raced on Bannochbrae last night in the Dallara Indy Car and boy is it a bumpy track, terrible for tightly sprung open wheelers. But that's what provides such a challenge, and GT Sport has to make some kind of effort to properly do the character of a racetrack justice.

 

[PzR Slim]

Has anyone found a way to turn off speed sensitive steering when using a wheel? It's absolutely ridiculous. Just been hotlapping around Willow in GR3 and in the high speed corners I only need to turn my wheel, which is set at 540 degrees, about 100 degrees to get full lock. 'The Real Driving Simulator'? It's a joke at the moment. If things don't change before release this is going to be much more about learning how to play a game than bringing any real life experience of driving cars fast. Thrustmaster are about to release the GT themed T700 for somewhere in the region of £600. That'll be a complete waste of money if they don't sort this out.

 

[oneloops]

Reality should by the benchmark, not your subjective idea of 'fun'.


Reality should by the benchmark, not your subjective idea of what you can or can't do.

It certainly can be done and you have already been shown footage of cars acting in pretty much the same way.


Its is, and I've raced that car and track combo, and many other tracks with that car, I have been doing so since the pack came out. Its far from disappointing, here's Spa, a track as bumpy and demanding as Brands, didn't disappoint.







You've driven cars of this nature in reality then, to be able to make that call (and in answer to a potential retort - yes I have)?

However once again, simply because you are not able to do it, doesn't mean ut can't be done. I have very little issue with the GT3 Challenge cars in this regard, pushing the cars can certainly be done, but it does require a fine balance and the throttle needs to be rolled on as the steering is unwound. You can't just pass the apex and bury the throttle in a 911, as that's just going to result in understeer. You are also not going to be able to tune it out either, its how the natural balance of the car is, and does require a driver to adapt to the car, as attempting to brute force it into a driving style not suited for it will result in frustration.

In a sim, the feel of reality is not a benchmarck nor a real thing, is a feel.

If not it was not be called simulator.

Have I to drive in real life the Lotus F1 98T or the 2015 F1 or a Laferrari and the Porsche 918 at all the tracks of the game in order to write about if they seem real in a game or not for me ?

Nobody can say nothing then.

I'm not driving in a brute way, in order to make 1'29" with the 911 gt3 cup in brands hatch there's only a way that AC lets drive... with prudency, frustation and smoothness.

 

[PzR Slim]

Have I to drive in real life the Lotus F1 98T or the 2015 F1 or a Laferrari and the Porsche 918 at all the tracks of the game in order to write about if they seem real in a game or not for me ?

Nobody can say nothing then.

What a ridiculous thing to say! The laws of physics and the huge amount of knowledge that can be gained from first hand accounts and video that is available tell us a great deal about what should be happening.

 

[Scaff]

Have I to drive in real life the Lotus F1 98T or the 2015 F1 or a Laferrari and the Porsche 918 at all the tracks of the game in order to write about if they seem real in a game or not for me ?

No one said you couldn't write about it (quote me if you feel otherwise), however you are not stating it as an opinion, but as if it were fact.

I've driven a wide variety of cars (including 911's) on track, I've driven race prepped cars on track, as have many others on here. Your opinion is at odds with the experience (in reality) we have, as such you stating it as fact is more than a little assumptive.

That's aside from the video evidence and discussions of the physics of vehicle dynamics that you dismiss out of hand if they don't meet your version of reality.

I provided a video of the rear of a WTCC car going bonkers at the rear as a result of the track surface and suspension set-up and you basically ignored it simply because it doesn't gel with what you want to be reality!

Nobody can say nothing then.

Yes they can.

I'm not driving in a brute way, in order to make 1'29" with the 911 gt3 cup in brands hatch there's only a way that AC lets drive... with prudency, frustation and smoothness.

For you. Many, many, many others find it utterly different. However if you don't believe those smoothness has a place in racing or driving on track then you are once again a long way from the real world.

"Slow is smooth and smooth is fast"

Once again your assumptions on what something should be do not equal reality.

 

[Stotty]

GT3 Cup car is fabulous in AC... it can be thrown around like a rally car... hilarious to drive.

 

[oneloops]

No one said you couldn't write about it (quote me if you feel otherwise), however you are not stating it as an opinion, but as if it were fact.

I've driven a wide variety of cars (including 911's) on track, I've driven race prepped cars on track, as have many others on here. Your opinion is at odds with the experience (in reality) we have, as such you stating it as fact is more than a little assumptive.



Yes they can.



For you. Many, many, many others fin dit utterly different.

Once again your assumptions on what something should be do not equal reality.

I don't make any assumption, I only express my opinion of what I feel that is wrong and don't feel realistic to me.

Better for you if AC feels realistic for you. Many profesional drivers have said that one or another game is very realistic... everyone has their own preferences, even pro drivers and experimented drivers.

If I can't push nor playing with grip because is always bouncing or sliding in a on/off way it's not real racing nor realistic physics to me.

I know how to drive, i've been on tracks riding and driving many many times in real life.

 

[Scaff]

I don't make any assumption, I only express my opinion of what I feel that is wrong and don't feel realistic to me.

I'm sorry but your last post alone was full of assumptions.

You assume that because I asked if you had any experience of race cars in reality I was saying you not be able to discuss the subject.

You assume that because a car is moving around a lot and you don't like it that its not accurate.

You assume because you can't hrow a car around that its not accurate.

I can keep going, you assume a lot, but most of all you assume your own preferences should be used as a benchmark for accuracy rather than reality.

Better for you if AC feels realistic for you. Many professional drivers have said that one or another game is very realistic... everyone has their own preferences, even pro drivers and experimented drivers.

And yet we are not talking about preferences or strictly subjective areas, but rather objective, comparable traits and characteristics.

As an example the amount of movement that is seen in the GT3 cars at Brands, now you are free to say you don't like it, you would prefer that it wasn't present and even that you prefer how it is in GTS. All of which are subjective preferences. However to say that its not an accurate trait of these vehicles on bumpy tracks is not a subjective preference at all, its dismissing a very large amount of real world evidence and the basics of physics and vehicle dynamics.

Its also not the first time you have gone down this road either.

 

[PzR Slim]

I don't make any assumption, I only express my opinion of what I feel that is wrong and don't feel realistic to me.

Better for you if AC feels realistic for you. Many profesional drivers have said that one or another game is very realistic... everyone has their own preferences, even pro drivers and experimented drivers.

Your opinion is subjective, the laws of physics are objective. That is what people have been trying to say to you all along. Your perfectly entitled to prefer one title over the other. However, when it comes to comparing to reality your subjective opinion does not hold much weight. So by all means prefer one title but don't try and state as fact that one is closer to reality because you prefer it and it feels more fun.

The discussions about which you prefer and which is more realistic are two entirely different discussions.

 

[oneloops]

Your opinion is subjective, the laws of physics are objective. That is what people have been trying to say to you all along. Your perfectly entitled to prefer one title over the other. However, when it comes to comparing to reality your subjective opinion does not hold much weight. So by all means prefer one title but don't try and state as fact that one is closer to reality because you prefer it and it feels more fun.

The discussions about which you prefer and which is more realistic are two entirely different discussions.

My opinion is based in my real life experience. And it doesn't matter if it's not the same opinion than yours.

 

[PzR Slim]

My opinion is based in my real life experience. And it doesn't matter if it's not the same opinion than yours.

So in your opinion, based on your real life experience, which title, GTS or AS, is closer to reality?

 

[oneloops]

I'm sorry but your last post alone was full of assumptions.

You assume that because I asked if you had any experience of race cars in reality I was saying you not be able to discuss the subject.

You assume that because a car is moving around a lot and you don't like it that its not accurate.

You assume because you can't hrow a car around that its not accurate.

I can keep going, you assume a lot, but most of all you assume your own preferences should be used as a benchmark for accuracy rather than reality.




And yet we are not talking about preferences or strictly subjective areas, but rather objective, comparable traits and characteristics.

As an example the amount of movement that is seen in the GT3 cars at Brands, now you are free to say you don't like it, you would prefer that it wasn't present and even that you prefer how it is in GTS. All of which are subjective preferences. However to say that its not an accurate trait of these vehicles on bumpy tracks is not a subjective preference at all, its dismissing a very large amount of real world evidence and the basics of physics and vehicle dynamics.

Its also not the first time you have gone down this road either.

So in your opinion, based on your real life experience, which title, GTS or AS, is closer to reality?

In some points GTS, in many others AC.

 

[oneloops]

Your opinion is subjective, the laws of physics are objective. That is what people have been trying to say to you all along. Your perfectly entitled to prefer one title over the other. However, when it comes to comparing to reality your subjective opinion does not hold much weight. So by all means prefer one title but don't try and state as fact that one is closer to reality because you prefer it and it feels more fun.

The discussions about which you prefer and which is more realistic are two entirely different discussions.

Nobody can say if a sim is more realistic than another without playing and feeling it.

The subjective part is a big part of any sim experience.

 

[PzR Slim]

In some points GTS, in many others AC.

I didn't ask that. I asked 'which title?', singular.

Nobody can say if a sim is more realistic than another without playing and feeling it.

The subjective part is a big part of any sim experience.

It's a huge part of which you prefer. It has no basis for which is most realistic.

 

[oneloops]

I didn't ask that. I asked 'which title?', singular.



It's a huge part of which you prefer. It has no basis for which is most realistic.

GTS isn't a finished game yet. But for now maybe AC is more realistic overall in my opinion.

Or wich feels more realistic. Because sim, by definition, is not real it's a imitation playing with the senses.

 

[PzR Slim]

GTS isn't a finished game yet. But for now maybe AC is more realistic overall in my opinion.

So why do you always appear to argue the opposite? And I'd be willing to bet my house that come release AC will still be the more realistic title. And that's ok. It doesn't make AC a better game. Which is the better game is entirely subjective. Some want reality, some want pretty graphics, some want to feel like a driving God. However, don't argue it is what it isn't just to defend it. Be happy it is what you want it to be and let us moan and discuss it's not what we want it to be.

 

[oneloops]

So why do you always appear to argue the opposite? And I'd be willing to bet my house that come release AC will still be the more realistic title. And that's ok. It doesn't make AC a better game. Which is the better game is entirely subjective. Some want reality, some want pretty graphics, some want to feel like a driving God. However, don't argue it is what it isn't just to defend it. Be happy it is what you want it to be and let us moan and discuss it's not what we want it to be.

I just said that some things in AC doesn't seem realistic to me, not wich is better or worst overall.

In the way the cars feel while cornering GT6 feels more realistic than AC to me.