GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[erahk64]

Theres an interesting preview of Forza at www.computerandvideogames.com that has worrying concerns (feel/physhics/graphics). They are confident however, that the Forza Team can fix the probs, but I'm not so confident. They don't have long enough before release to sort the issues they mention and really get it tight and right (better than GT4) IMO. At the moment (knowing more closely how the final build will turn out) Forza seems to have been more over-hyped than a chiwowa with a litre of red cordial in its belly. A lot of yapping. It will be a dog. Unless they pull a rabbit out of the hat at the last moment. I hope it will be an online fully damagable customisable rabbit, but more likely a really well featured dog.

It seems they are complaining about lack of rumble in the controller, not the physics.
There will probably be improvements since the preview says it's a very early version of the game.

 

[Double_R]

I have just watched a forza video and customized a car on their website and i have to say that i am hooked. I wouldnt say the graphics are better than GT4 and i cant say much about the pyshics but the kitting up of the cars has me hooked.Oh and the ferraris aswell.

well I have just watched the videos again now that im all awake and i have changed my mind. The game looks bland and arcadey. However i have now watched the entusia video several times and it has blown me away. Its amazing however the graphics arent all that but it looks gd nonetheless 👍

 

[Double_R]

Juiced publishers went bankrupt. Then another publisher took the game up and now the original juiced team are working hard on the game to make it better. Juiced will be better than NFSU2. I dont know anything about EA taking the game up but I hate EA. EA is trying to buy konami and its splinter cell series and thats not going down too well. EA are ruining our game industry. if EA suceed in getting Konami we can say goodbye to PRO EVO and splinter cell as EA will just arcade those games up.

 

[Max_DC]

Juiced publishers went bankrupt. Then another publisher took the game up and now the original juiced team are working hard on the game to make it better. Juiced will be better than NFSU2. I dont know anything about EA taking the game up but I hate EA. EA is trying to buy konami and its splinter cell series and thats not going down too well. EA are ruining our game industry. if EA suceed in getting Konami we can say goodbye to PRO EVO and splinter cell as EA will just arcade those games up.

splinter cell...konami....
ah not quite.... well there are rumors that somebody wants to buy EA ( American investment group or whatever) ....well we'll see what happens.... but I also hope that EA is stopping their shopping fever...Konami should stay independent....

 

[wonderpill]

Forza seems to have been more over-hyped than a chiwowa with a litre of red cordial in its belly.

Just for future reference... its CHIHUAHUA, but I knew what you meant.

 

[code_kev]

At the moment (knowing more closely how the final build will turn out) Forza seems to have been more over-hyped than a chiwowa with a litre of red cordial in its belly. A lot of yapping. It will be a dog. Unless they pull a rabbit out of the hat at the last moment. I hope it will be an online fully damagable customisable rabbit, but more likely a really well featured dog.

So you've never played it, and because of what one website says, you think it's gonna be a dog....okay...

And how do you know they don't have long enough to sort out any problems? You don't, so stop talking crap about things that you really know very little about.

 

[Dave A]

Actually if you read that review very closely you can see that theyre criticising the feedback on the controler not the physics, they said they don't doubt the physics are as real as they say they are. They also say near the end that if that and one or two small problems get sorted out which they believe they can and they mention a few that the Forza team are well aware of and already sorting, Forza would be the best console racing game out there now. Heres the last paragraph which sums up the BETA build nicely and goes in hand with what Tha_con has said.

"But it's like we said. Our hands-on with this early Forza code has resulted in a fairly lengthy list of problems on the MOT fail certificate, and yet for every problem there are five things that aren't just satisfactory - they're brilliant. If Team Forza drives off in its potentially groundbreaking racing game, tinker with it for a few months, and then pop it back into the C&VG.com garage with the problems fixed, we don't doubt it could be the ultimate console driving sim.

And hey - Team Forza's got another whole month to do it."

 

[kinigitt]

Actually if you read that review very closely you can see that theyre criticising the feedback on the controler not the physics, they said they don't doubt the physics are as real as they say they are. They also say near the end that if that and one or two small problems get sorted out which they believe they can and they mention a few that the Forza team are well aware of and already sorting, Forza would be the best console racing game out there now. Heres the last paragraph which sums up the BETA build nicely and goes in hand with what Tha_con has said.

"But it's like we said. Our hands-on with this early Forza code has resulted in a fairly lengthy list of problems on the MOT fail certificate, and yet for every problem there are five things that aren't just satisfactory - they're brilliant. If Team Forza drives off in its potentially groundbreaking racing game, tinker with it for a few months, and then pop it back into the C&VG.com garage with the problems fixed, we don't doubt it could be the ultimate console driving sim.

And hey - Team Forza's got another whole month to do it."

make that 3+

 

[JohnBM01]

At a Wal-Mart one time, I had a chance to play a demo of "Forza Motorsport," the answer to Gran Turismo 4. A chance to take down the giant. The game is just a demo, so Lord knows what this will do until the game is finally released for XBOX players to log on to their XBOX Live accounts to try to own the competition. GamePro Magazine says that FM will be out around February, so we'll really see until then if this game will be the game to take down Gran Turismo 4. But for now, let me get to my rap sheet. And before I begin, these are just my views, so if you think I'm whipping up bulls***, don't read. Just put me on your Ignore List.

PROS: lots of features in the final version; has my favorite race car (Ferrari 333SP); has my favorite street car (Ferrari 360 Modena); nice control (loved the control of the Porsche in the demo); Laguna Seca looks pretty accurate

CONS: dull graphics; roughneck AI- better than "Pro Race Driver" though; four to a track (supposed to be 8 to a track in the retail); consistent but slow frame rate (even GT1 and GT2 were faster); GT gamers may have a tough time with it; some sounds seemed inaccurate; crappy-looking car models

FINAL VERDICT (on demo): It's the best XBOX racer I've played, second only to PGR2. I'm inclined to call this XBOX's GT. It was cool, but for an old-fashioned guy like me, I don't really seem convinced that this will take down GT4. On a bright side, this may be the best bang for your buck if you want a simulation racer without thinking about Polyphony Digital.

So go ahead and sound off on me. Not the first time I've been pushed around on GTPlanet or any other message board. So what kind of Hate Post you want to spew at me?

 

[JohnBM01]

-EXTRA COMMENTARY-

Normally, I take loads to criticism for making too long of posts and being too "poetic" on making points. So if you want a "no bull****" view on this demo, keep reading.

I was finally able to see what the XBOX buzz was about this game. This game is going to be the biggest racing title... for the XBOX, not overall. I see this game as being the best sim racer on the XBOX, but not overall. XBOX Live, Ferrari, and Porsche aren't going to cut it. If you're going to beat GT4 (much less the entire series), you at least need better-looking graphics. The graphics look like someone softened the graphics very much to the point where sharp, clean graphics look more like fuzzy, soft graphics. The AI is about as bad as Pro Race Driver. I remembered racing a Porsche as this bastard in a Corvette C6 kept ramming into my left rear side. You talk about GT4's AI, hell. This is no different. The action itself was alright. I never raced so horribly at Laguna Seca (the demo track) until playing this game. Maybe it was a demo version, but I didn't see any serious crashes on my car. And I tried to reverse, and I didn't have reverse lights working. Sound familiar?

I'm not trying to get under anyone's skin, but honestly, I wasn't moved by Forza Motorsport. I'd rather wait for Gran Turismo 4 while I'm getting a little rusty with my GT skills. If the demo is any indication, I'll be G**damned if this game gets higher ratings over GT4 simply for three little factors that don't mean s*** unless you are too greedy over what a racing game should have to be a classic. I'd rather wait for GT4. I don't need alternatives because I have three already- life, school, and GTA: San Andreas. I'm sorry. I DO NOT see this game beating GT4 except for FM having online play (that everyone wants nowadays, since online play is more important than the game itself). Even if I had six hours to myself to examine every last element of this demo, I'd still might feel the same way.

Well, I stated my points without being too poetic or fruity. How's this for a sound off? Go ahead and ramble against me. But remember, this is just my opinion. I got away from this thread until I finally played the game.

 

[Gek54]

I never raced so horribly at Laguna Seca (the demo track) until playing this game.

I assume you were racing will all aids off. GT4 is a walk in the park compared to Forza and for good reasons.

 

[code_kev]

If you're going to beat GT4 (much less the entire series), you at least need better-looking graphics.

Ummm why?

 

[kinigitt]

Ummm why?

Because graphics are more important than online play? hehe. sorry john, that was a dirty trick.

It's cool if you think that about the demo, because after all, the demo has some serious problems, and if I was forced to choose between GT4 and a forza motorsport that shares the demo's shortcomings, I'd take GT4 in a heartbeat. But I don't think that will be the case.

Cool your jets and wait for the retail version. Then decide.

 

[Symtex]

I am always amazed how someone can judge a game by playing a demo 5 min at Wall-Mart.

Forza is the bastard child everyone loves to hate. So matter how good the game will be, it will never appreciated in this GT Fansite.

 

[James2097]

Hey JohnBM01, I'm rambling with you mate! That was EXACTLY my opinion when playing the BETA build (flatmate is a game journo). Oh and CodeKev, you don't understand me or my full position on Forza whatsover. I did say I wanted it to be good. I have read up about it / played it as much as you and most people here have (we are in this forza thread because we have an interest in the game being potentially and hopefully good, no?). You just really seem to want to rile against anything and everything I say, misunderstand, misquote and generally be very petty. I was only trying to get the disscussion back on Forza, and (on purpose) generate just enough heat to keep it there. I never said I knew what the FINAL game would be like for sure (no one does), I'm just erring on the side of concerned optimism as opposed to "yay it will kill GT4 for sure dudes". In my mind "simple" problems like rumble implementation and cars driving like they're "hovering" too much, over zealous AI and bland graphics (these are all mine and many others experience of the game, not just "one web article" - that was used just for easy reference for others to read, CVG don't know crap about car sim games IMO anyway) are BIG BIG problems this close to release. They are game making or game breaking problems. You can disagree with me all you want because you simply have "faith" in Forza to pull through, but please mate, don't make immature assumptions about me just for the sake of being argumentative. Oh and graphics are very important to a potential GT beater. Its a key strength of the GT series and its success, an XBOX game should by rights look better. OK now its your turn (and others) to misquote me, take me out of context and make statments about one little web article that I read more carefully in the first place than many insinuating I hadn't understood it fully. I was also indirectly stating problems "I" had with Forza from a similar experience with the BETA build. Ok fire away boys.

 

[Symtex]

Hey JohnBM01, I'm rambling with you mate! That was EXACTLY my opinion when playing the BETA build (flatmate is a game journo). Oh and CodeKev, you don't understand me or my full position on Forza whatsover. I did say I wanted it to be good. I have read up about it / played it as much as you and most people here have (we are in this forza thread because we have an interest in the game being potentially and hopefully good, no?). You just really seem to want to rile against anything and everything I say, misunderstand, misquote and generally be very petty. I was only trying to get the disscussion back on Forza, and (on purpose) generate just enough heat to keep it there. I never said I knew what the FINAL game would be like for sure (no one does), I'm just erring on the side of concerned optimism as opposed to "yay it will kill GT4 for sure dudes". In my mind "simple" problems like rumble implementation and cars driving like they're "hovering" too much, over zealous AI and bland graphics (these are all mine and many others experience of the game, not just "one web article" - that was used just for easy reference for others to read, CVG don't know crap about car sim games IMO anyway) are BIG BIG problems this close to release. They are game making or game breaking problems. You can disagree with me all you want because you simply have "faith" in Forza to pull through, but please mate, don't make immature assumptions about me just for the sake of being argumentative. Oh and graphics are very important to a potential GT beater. Its a key strength of the GT series and its success, an XBOX game should by rights look better. OK now its your turn (and others) to misquote me, take me out of context and make statments about one little web article that I read more carefully in the first place than many insinuating I hadn't understood it fully. I was also indirectly stating problems "I" had with Forza from a similar experience with the BETA build. Ok fire away boys.

I didn't notice anything problematic with rumble feedback besides it was more subtile then some other title (PGR2).

I rather see an over zealous AI then an AI that only race his pre-program line like in GT3. GT4 have some very nice visual on track like Tsukuba and Tokyo but is really bad on track like Trial Mountain.

You see I can go on and on and nitpick GT4 until there is no tomorrow. I think GT fans have accept the flaws and missed of the series because they have been playing it for a while. The same rules should apply to Forza. Of course the game is not going to be perfect and going to have things to improve on. Whoever told you underwise is as bad as some fanboy (*cough* CobraGT *cough*).

What I like about Forza :
car damage, custom paint, drivatar and online racing.

What I like about GT4 :
Great selection of cars, Good number of tracks, Implementation of 900 degree wheel.

 

[wonderpill]

I think in a month or so, If your were to check the fanboy's closets, you might find them playing forza. For the most part these will be the people that whisper when they are playing online, so no one nearby can hear them having fun with another racing game...


And if you look hard enough, you might find neatly razored open xbox boxes and and the game case just opened ever so slightly so that in case they don't realize they are playing an awesome game, they might be able to slip it by the clerk at wal-mart to get a refund.

I for one will rip that B**** open and will probably press the eject button way too many times thinking it might open the tray faster to get it in my xbox.

 

[tha_con]

I assume you were racing will all aids off. GT4 is a walk in the park compared to Forza and for good reasons.

The difference isn't THAT big

 

[James2097]

Hey Symtex my two cents:

The rumble wasn't so bad that it was horrible or even a huge issue, but stands out only for the fact that GT1 had it down pat. It should be perfected by now as its a very simple thing to get right. Its more fundamental things like physics and bad graphics that need another year spent on them. They stem right from the start of Forza's development. You cannot make the game look and feel brilliant to drive in 1-3 months. As for actually wanting crazy AI, destruction derby style racing may be good for Burnout 3, but you'll notice most race car drivers want to keep the car intact. It should be aggressive in its actions short of getting the entire field of cars black-flagged. Yes GT's AI is crap and sterile, but at least you don't feel cheated as you can predict your opposition's movements. In Forza your opponents don't seem to care about their cars at all, or winning the race. They are kamakazi. "Lets just try and ruin the player's game by anhililating his car." GT's AI drivers still drive more within the bounds of reality of what a real driver would/wouldn't do to win. A little bit of nudging for position is good, but not full on high speed car write offs. At least the AI will get fixed apparently. Here's hoping.

About the demo version: in my experience, game demos do not get released to the public to try out unless they're pretty much indicative of the final experience. Forza is a huge release for Microsoft and they wouldn't release a demo before the team felt that it would feel 'final' or very close to 'final'. I've never experienced any huge differences upon playing demos and their respective final games.

Oh and if people think I'm too negative about Forza, I'm still gonna get it. I speak from a genuine interest and concern about its development only because I know that the franchise COULD potentially be better than GT (and hence my new fave car game) if they get it really tight and polished and learn from their mistakes. But for that to occur it relies on Polyphony not making GT5. Ever. Ok I'm a fanboy. But an informed one with an open mind. Hehe

 

[Symtex]

Hey Symtex my two cents:

The rumble wasn't so bad that it was horrible or even a huge issue, but stands out only for the fact that GT1 had it down pat. It should be perfected by now as its a very simple thing to get right. Its more fundamental things like physics and bad graphics that need another year spent on them. They stem right from the start of Forza's development. You cannot make the game look and feel brilliant to drive in 1-3 months. As for actually wanting crazy AI, destruction derby style racing may be good for Burnout 3, but you'll notice most race car drivers want to keep the car intact. It should be aggressive in its actions short of getting the entire field of cars black-flagged. Yes GT's AI is crap and sterile, but at least you don't feel cheated as you can predict your opposition's movements. In Forza your opponents don't seem to care about their cars at all, or winning the race. They are kamakazi. "Lets just try and ruin the player's game by anhililating his car." GT's AI drivers still drive more within the bounds of reality of what a real driver would/wouldn't do to win. A little bit of nudging for position is good, but not full on high speed car write offs. At least the AI will get fixed apparently. Here's hoping.

About the demo version: in my experience, game demos do not get released to the public to try out unless they're pretty much indicative of the final experience. Forza is a huge release for Microsoft and they wouldn't release a demo before the team felt that it would feel 'final' or very close to 'final'. I've never experienced any huge differences upon playing demos and their respective final games.

Oh and if people think I'm too negative about Forza, I'm still gonna get it. I speak from a genuine interest and concern about its development only because I know that the franchise COULD potentially be better than GT (and hence my new fave car game) if they get it really tight and polished and learn from their mistakes. But for that to occur it relies on Polyphony not making GT5. Ever. Ok I'm a fanboy. But an informed one with an open mind. Hehe

It's an honest point of view and I respect that. I notice some of the rampage AI but I found out that if I had a better start they wouldn't hit me. After a few hours of playing, I had more control on my car and I notice the AI were very good.. They didn't hit me anymore.

 

[James2097]

If you can cope with the AI... Here's the multi-million dollar (or however much it took to develop Forza) question. Is it more fun in your eyes than GT? I would like people to simply say whether they found the demo of Forza (or if they've played a preview version, then that) more or less fun than an equivalent race in GT4? (Same track- laguna seca, similar cars). Instead of nitpick details and yell at each other, like we've been doing, whats the general verdict on fun?

 

[Swift]

If you can cope with the AI... Here's the multi-million dollar (or however much it took to develop Forza) question. Is it more fun in your eyes than GT? I would like people to simply say whether they found the demo of Forza (or if they've played a preview version, then that) more or less fun than an equivalent race in GT4? (Same track- laguna seca, similar cars). Instead of nitpick details and yell at each other, like we've been doing, whats the general verdict on fun?

That's the first logical question I've seen on this thread in abotu 15 pages. So how about it? To those that have played both and driven a car availibe in the Forza demo and the same car in GT4. What was the most fun for you?

 

[code_kev]

About the demo version: in my experience, game demos do not get released to the public to try out unless they're pretty much indicative of the final experience

GT

You've just been shot down.

Is it more fun, well having not played the same tracks etc as GT4, I can tell you one thing. I found it about 5 times more fun then GT3.

 

[Cosmic]

Should that be grass or sand? It feels like if you were driving on a safari park.
But nice pic tought, nice indeed even if I'm a 'fanboy'

 

[Symtex]

If you can cope with the AI... Here's the multi-million dollar (or however much it took to develop Forza) question. Is it more fun in your eyes than GT? I would like people to simply say whether they found the demo of Forza (or if they've played a preview version, then that) more or less fun than an equivalent race in GT4? (Same track- laguna seca, similar cars). Instead of nitpick details and yell at each other, like we've been doing, whats the general verdict on fun?

hey, I like GT4. don't get me wrong. I can't wait for feb 22nd. I have played GT4 Japanase demo and GT4 Prologue. I always though the GT series was a always easy to play but hard to master. This is where PD shines. It's not a full-fledge simulation but there is enough SIM to make it fun like you said. I think the GT series has a major advantage in the DFP Wheel. I would never argue with any GT fanboys that the DFP is great wheel and bring GT series to another level.

What I like in Forza ? It's different the GT. It's more of a racing simulation. I really like the Tire and the Break physics. Top Nutch. I also like the AI. very challenging. I like the fact I can custom the paint and my car the way i want too. So when you go online there is no car that looks the same. You can also build your clan and trade paint scheme / part with them.

 

[James2097]

Prolougue was a bit of a silly idea really. Don't worry about trying to define me Codekev, you're still nowhere near understanding that my views are actually honest, objective, and equally critical of all games (shock horror). I simply want a good car racing game, regardless of the trivial matter of which console its for. However its quite apparent you're a massive Forza fanboy. The Forza is strong in this one! Oh no he's gone to the dark side... I really don't care. Good stuff if you like Forza. How about someone offer an honest, not over-inflated opinion? Someone we haven't heard from yet. Fun factor of Forza...

Nice to hear from the others though.. Please keep posting views about fun! (just general impressions, as the fun-ness of the game is very dependent on each individual's experience of it.)

 

[Symtex]

Prolougue was a bit of a silly idea really. Don't worry about trying to define me Codekev, you're still nowhere near understanding that my views are actually honest, objective, and equally critical of all games. I simply want a good car racing game, regardless of the trivial matter of which console its for. However its quite apparent you're a massive Forza fanboy. The Forza is strong in this one! Oh no he's gone to the dark side... I really don't care. Good stuff if you like Forza. How about someone offer an honest, not over-inlated opinion? Fun factor of Forza...

After playing GT3, I felt like GT4 is more like an upgrade then a new title. That is why i more exciting in Forza because it offer something different.

If GT has some of the features like Online racing, custom paint and damage. I would be more excited about GT then Forza. anyway i will be getting both

 

[Cosmic]

Prolougue was a bit of a silly idea really. Don't worry about trying to define me Codekev, you're still nowhere near understanding that my views are actually honest, objective, and equally critical of all games. I simply want a good car racing game, regardless of the trivial matter of which console its for. However its quite apparent you're a massive Forza fanboy. The Forza is strong in this one! Oh no he's gone to the dark side... I really don't care. Good stuff if you like Forza. How about someone offer an honest, not over-inlated opinion? Fun factor of Forza...

His fanboyism is showing!

 

[Touring Mars]

Prolougue was a bit of a silly idea really.

I beg to differ... it's maybe not the best game in the world, but it has kept me sane for months already! I pity those in the US who never got it...

The Forza is strong in this one!

 

[code_kev]

However its quite apparent you're a massive Forza fanboy.

BW AHAHAH . I'm such a HUGE forza fanboy that I was posting on here before forza was even announced...

If I was a teh Ub3r forza fanboy, I may have something like this...

"HAY GUYZ, forza pwnz Gt4, and pwnz j00!1!!!1!" or words to that effect. But no, I said forza seemed better then GT3, but having not played GT4 properly (just demos), I couldn't really comment. The Dark side is indeed strong with this one.

But seriously, I'm no fanboy, I want good games, that's it. Forza has caught my interest as it seems to do stuff that GT has been missing for ages (damage etc especially, that effects the handling), and hell, I enjoyed the demo. While rough around the edges, it gave an idea of what to expect. It had nothing to do with the console, then name or anything as pathetic as that, just the game, and as far as I can tell, it's just gonna get better. OFC I'm looking forwards to GT4 also, but I've kinda got bored waiting.

I think your just sour over the GT comment (which I own BTW, and it's the biggest waste of time imaginable tbh, but hell, saves me doing some tests on GT4 XD)

His fanboyism is showing!

OH NOES!! *covers up his fanboyisms*