GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[Front]

Customise an F40

Some Nurb Pictures

Remember this is the beta build and is no where near the quality of the final build

and the modifications done to it affected the car in the following:

Engine and Power

Engine Tuning: Clubsport Fuel and Ignition = + 100 hp
Intake/Exhaust: Stock Supercharger = + 17 hp
Fuel and Ignition Systems: Stock Aspiration + 35 hp
Turbo: Clubsport Intercooler = + 128 hp
Supercharger: Not Available
Intercooler: New Intercooler = + 45 hp
Engine Swap: Not Available

803 hp Ferrari F40

Appearance and Aero:

Wheels: Selection of various wheels available
Window Tint: Various coloured window tints available
Front Bumper: None Available
Rear Bumper: None Available
Side Skirts: None Available
Hood: None Available
Rear Spoiler/Wing: None Available
Roll Cage: None Available
Rear Lens: None Available

So not agreat deal other than windwo tinting and changing the wheels can be done to the F40.

Chassis and Drivetrain:

Suspension: Professional Suspension
Brakes: Professional Brakes
Treansmission: Professional Transmission (improves shift timing by -0.04s)
Clutch and Flywheel: Professional Clutch and Flywheel (improves shift timing by -0.10s)
Weight Reduction: Professional Weight Reduction (weight: -298 lbs) (removes interior trim and fits plexiglass windows etc)
Tires: Turbo Sport (improves handling)
Differential/Drivetrain: Professional Differential/Drivetrain (maximum grip in adverse cornering etc)

 

[Dave A]

Reply to GuyNameJohn.

First off welcome to GTP, secondly I second every bit of that post 👍.

 

[akak]

Customise an F40

Some Nurb Pictures

Remember this is the beta build and is no where near the quality of the final build

and the modifications done to it affected the car in the following:

Engine and Power

Engine Tuning: Clubsport Fuel and Ignition = + 100 hp
Intake/Exhaust: Stock Supercharger = + 17 hp
Fuel and Ignition Systems: Stock Aspiration + 35 hp
Turbo: Clubsport Intercooler = + 128 hp
Supercharger: Not Available
Intercooler: New Intercooler = + 45 hp
Engine Swap: Not Available

803 hp Ferrari F40

Appearance and Aero:

Wheels: Selection of various wheels available
Window Tint: Various coloured window tints available
Front Bumper: None Available
Rear Bumper: None Available
Side Skirts: None Available
Hood: None Available
Rear Spoiler/Wing: None Available
Roll Cage: None Available
Rear Lens: None Available

So not agreat deal other than windwo tinting and changing the wheels can be done to the F40.

Chassis and Drivetrain:

Suspension: Professional Suspension
Brakes: Professional Brakes
Treansmission: Professional Transmission (improves shift timing by -0.04s)
Clutch and Flywheel: Professional Clutch and Flywheel (improves shift timing by -0.10s)
Weight Reduction: Professional Weight Reduction (weight: -298 lbs) (removes interior trim and fits plexiglass windows etc)
Tires: Turbo Sport (improves handling)
Differential/Drivetrain: Professional Differential/Drivetrain (maximum grip in adverse cornering etc)

Too be honest im glad you cant add tons of crappy fibre glass body molds to a ferrari it would be be completely gay!

how could anyone mess with somthing so beautiful?

I have to say the forza parts/tuning sounds identical to gt4 tuning options in all but names and descriptions, Mind you there isnt alot more you could tune on a car without going into really extreme depth

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

live4speed
Yo-
Thanks!

 

[smellysocks12]

Anyone making a yellow / pink F40 should be strung up to the highest building by the balls..... but it's pretty cool that you're able to in Forza.... although that isn't really what I want to see in a game. If I wanted to be able to do things like that I might as well get NFSU2....

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

LOL Dude. Sick. And I don't mean in a sweet way, to clarify the vernacular.

Almost adds a whole new depth to the words bastardization and heresy.

- -

Oh yeah. Just to add my $.02 to this discussion more on topic: I really fear for Gran Turismo's ability to retain its crown in the realism department when coming up against Forza. I mean, you can check me if I'm wrong on this in more recent builds, but I have the Forza demo (Laguna Seca) and man I'm telling y'all now: This beeyatch is hard. Understeer rules the day all in but the RR Porsche, whose back end is easier to break loose for the weight distribution factor.

Iow, for pure sliding around fun, I have found trail braking into corners and faint-drift maneuvers being nigh impossible, as cars will nose-dive into a stubborn trajectory whose sign reads, OFFROAD AHEAD, YOU'RE SCREWED.

GT4 it seems remains more accessible with over-shooting offroad excursions not carrying quite the weighty consequences and degree of point-of-no-return as does Forza. Of course this modelling is more accurate - I am just intensely curious to whether it will make it less fun as a game for the masses than GT4 is.

-John

 

[wongb18c]

Anyone making a yellow / pink F40 should be strung up to the highest building by the balls..... but it's pretty cool that you're able to in Forza.... although that isn't really what I want to see in a game. If I wanted to be able to do things like that I might as well get NFSU2....

I agree with that. If you want a game so you can custom paint and do body work... might as well get NFSU. GT4 will always be on top.

 

[GeCcO]

If you want numbers or technical advise on which console is better. Here it is.

The Xbox is better. It is younger, as most raw cpu power, its memory management is better and faster, its DvD reader is better (for movie watching), its got more access possibilities (4 controlers, 8 memory unit access), its got built in HD, built in Network access and XboxLive is very good, especially with the headset.

Those are undisputable facts. I don't want to start an argument over this and i don't care what other people think, i work in the industry, i've worked for 2 years with Sony as a platform specialist on PS2, and i am now working with Microsoft as a platform specialist on Xbox. It is better.

Strange thing that you don't know the fact that the PS2 is around twice as fast as an Xbox.

The Xbox uses a Celeron 2 typed cpu, 32-bit running at 733mhz. The PS2 on the other hand is running a 128-bit cpu clocked in at 300Mhz. Well, looks like e complete overrun doesn't it ? Well, lets take a deeper look. The Xbox cpu is only a Celeron 2 type chip, that runs in a 32-bit environment and blasts out around 3 Gigaflops of datacrushing power. Then we have the (what everybody thinks) small and slow 300Mhz chip in the PS2, well, the fact here is that the 128-bit Emotion Engine spits out a whopping 6.2 Gigaflops. Thats over two times as much datapower as the Xbox.

And then we have graphics. The Xbox here has it's Geforce 3 look-alike chip in it. It has more effects built in to it than the PS2 gfx-chip. But then again, the PS2 chip is much more programmable, and can do all those effects and lots more better.

The fact is, the Xbox looks so good on the paper, everybody is so completely fooled by the "733Mhz cpu, 64MB RAM, 250Mhz gfx-chip" and so on. But the PS2 is indeed faster. And even if it does'nt have the built in hardware effects as the Xbox has, it has the power to do effects in software that looks better than the Xbox effects. And there can be created much more effects and nicer looking graphics on the PS2.

Just look at GT4 as a pretty good example of that.

 

[BlackZ28]

Just look at GT4 as a pretty good example of that.

GT4 doesn't look great..
PS2 isnt more powerful.

 

[McLaren]

LOL Dude. Sick. And I don't mean in a sweet way, to clarify the vernacular.

Almost adds a whole new depth to the words bastardization and heresy.

- -

Oh yeah. Just to add my $.02 to this discussion more on topic: I really fear for Gran Turismo's ability to retain its crown in the realism department when coming up against Forza. I mean, you can check me if I'm wrong on this in more recent builds, but I have the Forza demo (Laguna Seca) and man I'm telling y'all now: This beeyatch is hard. Understeer rules the day all in but the RR Porsche, whose back end is easier to break loose for the weight distribution factor.

Iow, for pure sliding around fun, I have found trail braking into corners and faint-drift maneuvers being nigh impossible, as cars will nose-dive into a stubborn trajectory whose sign reads, OFFROAD AHEAD, YOU'RE SCREWED.

GT4 it seems remains more accessible with over-shooting offroad excursions not carrying quite the weighty consequences and degree of point-of-no-return as does Forza. Of course this modelling is more accurate - I am just intensely curious to whether it will make it less fun as a game for the masses than GT4 is.

-John

The demo is hard?
Wow, well, I guess you'll have an extremely hard time driving the real deal.

Look, neither game gets the physics even 90% accurate. If they did, driving the Ferrari 333SP or Bentley Speed 8 would be hard as hell. These LMP monsters take a great amount of strength to take around a course. The cars fight back. They're nothing like driving a road car. All that power takes a lot to control.

And with both the demo and GT4, and probably the full game of Forza, the cars will be easy to drive.

 

[GeCcO]

GT4 doesn't look great..
PS2 isnt more powerful.

If you look at the specs. the PS2 is faster than the Xbox...

 

[code_kev]

Oh PUHLEASE, this "whats more powerful" discussion is old and pointless, the xbox is obviously faster (I say obviously if you have a brain), it came out later, the specs are better, the games look better(I'm talking from a tech point, not art wise, don't argue with this point, Ninja Gaiden pretty much proves this theory). The end, no one cares. No amount of bull**** can change that.

"oh oh oh but the ps2 does 2 nano flops while the xbox only does 1.23422"

Oh shut the hell up.

"oh but software graphics ARE better"

HAHAHAHAHAH. Yes *pats on the head* sure they are.

"oh but ummm *quotes a website by fanboys from 2001*"

*pats on the head* Of course it's faster, just like my geforce 2mx in my spare machine is faster then my 9800...

"OH but Gt4 looks more realistic etc etc"

GT4 is pretty low in terms of poly counts etc, it's because of PDs fantastic Art Direction and technical trickery that it looks how it does. Lets also remember there are certain cars you can only race by them selves, and some pretty silly limitations

The simple fact is having a dedicated 3d graphics chip, more ram, and a faster cpu does make it faster. Oh and it has a harddrive to store temp stuff too also. Glad that's out of the way. BTW this is where he quotes and techno babble from 2001, from people pretending to understand...

TBH it just sounds to me that they don't like the idea of another machine being faster...next they will say the ps2 is faster then the gamecube!

"oh but the discs are bigger"

There there GeCcO, it's ok. I'm sure you can find some fool to back your wild claims up.

Btw I cracked and pre-ordered Gt4 . Oh well that's uni failed in the near future...

 

[TriplePlay]

Pwned!!!

 

[Dave A]

Kev you're 100% correct mate, it's been proven many times that the X-Box is more powerful, even thoes with half a brain only have to look at how much more detail the graphics chips alone can push compared to the PS2. And all that about the PS2's 300mhz processor being better than the 733mhz in the X-Box and mentioning the emotion engine, the bit that makes it all so much better. The emotion engine is a pile of wank, I'm sorry but it's a marketing gimmik and nothing more.

 

[GeCcO]

Oh PUHLEASE, this "whats more powerful" discussion is old and pointless, the xbox is obviously faster (I say obviously if you have a brain), it came out later, the specs are better, the games look better(I'm talking from a tech point, not art wise, don't argue with this point, Ninja Gaiden pretty much proves this theory). The end, no one cares. No amount of bull**** can change that.

"oh oh oh but the ps2 does 2 nano flops while the xbox only does 1.23422"

Oh shut the hell up.

"oh but software graphics ARE better"

HAHAHAHAHAH. Yes *pats on the head* sure they are.

"oh but ummm *quotes a website by fanboys from 2001*"

*pats on the head* Of course it's faster, just like my geforce 2mx in my spare machine is faster then my 9800...

"OH but Gt4 looks more realistic etc etc"

GT4 is pretty low in terms of poly counts etc, it's because of PDs fantastic Art Direction and technical trickery that it looks how it does. Lets also remember there are certain cars you can only race by them selves, and some pretty silly limitations

The simple fact is having a dedicated 3d graphics chip, more ram, and a faster cpu does make it faster. Oh and it has a harddrive to store temp stuff too also. Glad that's out of the way. BTW this is where he quotes and techno babble from 2001, from people pretending to understand...

TBH it just sounds to me that they don't like the idea of another machine being faster...next they will say the ps2 is faster then the gamecube!

"oh but the discs are bigger"

There there GeCcO, it's ok. I'm sure you can find some fool to back your wild claims up.

Btw I cracked and pre-ordered Gt4 . Oh well that's uni failed in the near future...

I would really like you to explain to me how the xbox cpu is faster than the PS2 cpu, i obviously does'nt understand anything...

 

[code_kev]

Ok it's simple....frankly I don't care how many nano giga flippa flops the ps2 cpu can do. Ok. Good. See rather then specs that frankly mean nothing, I look at real world performance. You can quote fanboy websites till the cows come home, you know I'm right. See even if the cpu ISN'T as advanced, it does have similar power, the console is in general easy to program, has more ram, and DEDICATED 3d hardware. Notice how the PS3 will ALSO have dedicated 3d hardware?

Play Ninja Gaiden, then play Panzer Orta, then Rallisport 2, then PGR2, then Halo 2, then Otogi 2, then Riddick and then remember that Doom 3 is coming out for the Xbox. Good. There ends the lesson. Enough said.

 

[akak]

Kev you're 100% correct mate, it's been proven many times that the X-Box is more powerful, even thoes with half a brain only have to look at how much more detail the graphics chips alone can push compared to the PS2. And all that about the PS2's 300mhz processor being better than the 733mhz in the X-Box and mentioning the emotion engine, the bit that makes it all so much better. The emotion engine is a pile of wank, I'm sorry but it's a marketing gimmik and nothing more.

not really a pile of wank, when it still chucks out games that look as good as xbox titles,

 

[code_kev]

You don't own an xbox do ya? The ps2 was your first console right?

Not as GOOD as, but quite similar at times.

 

[Mr Whippy]

Yeah I agree, only reason GT4 is so nice looking is that every scrap of texture space and polygon has been pondered over for days probably, to be as close to 100% efficient as possible. That is where Polyphony are amazing... their artwork and skill to make things look so damn good!

PGR2 could have looked twice as good had Polyphony being making it, because their artwork and optimisations are great!

Half the problem is, the more powerfull the machine, the less effort developers make optimising code and meshes etc.

PGR2 seemed to come out very soon after PGR1, which is good from a marketing and selling point of view, but the artwork is terrible... some cars just look so odd and not right!


GT5 will be nice on the PS3, then we'll really see what Polyphony can do with power.... lets hope it doesn't go to their heads and make them sloppy like other developers, lets hope they still make it ground brakingly awesome!

PS, Forza cars look ****e. The Evo8 has slapped on 2d textures for the lights, that is just so lame it's beyond belief. Polyphony managed 3d lights on the Evo 7 in GT3, so whats stopping Forza team doing them better? Only reason is they have less pride in their work, and are just making something as fast as possible to make most money.
GT4 has taken years, but each time you play the game, or drive the Ring, you'll see where the time went! Look at PGR2's Ring, lol, it's awfull, not only in realism to the real Ring, but also in laziness with the same tree objects randomly scattered all over... poor, soooo poor!

Dave

 

[akak]

You don't own an xbox do ya? The ps2 was your first console right?

i dont own an xbox my friend does, im sorry i just happen to think games like GT4 ICO and MGS3 all hold there own against xbox titles, im not saying the ps2 has better graphics

i still havent seen a game on the xbox look anything like this

 

[code_kev]

Ico is fricking stunning, I own and play it, but the textures are junk and the poly counts low. Your just showing me that the Ico team are masters of design and art work.

 

[bmwM3]

Maybe if you want to test graphics you should look at Fable on xbox. I used to play Ico awhile back, it seemed abit pixellated to me.

 

[akak]

Ico is fricking stunning, I own and play it, but the textures are junk and the poly counts low. Your just showing me that the Ico team are masters of design and art work.

well like i said im not trying to prove the ps2 is more powerful than the xbox, because it isnt. But with the right team working on it they can get games looking very very good

 

[code_kev]

Well that goes with out saying, I was never arguing that point.

 

[Dave A]

not really a pile of wank, when it still chucks out games that look as good as xbox titles,

You see the odd game on the PS2 which is up there like GT4 for example, however, this is where it people stop paying attention, GT4 looks fantastic, but it uses a low poly count, flat 2d trees and background, low res textures are all over the place, but PD have used variouse different techniques to make it all look great. From a technical standpoint Forza ****s all over GT4, theres well over twice as many polys per car in Forza than GT4, fully 3d backgrounds and trackside objects ect. Whether you like or dislike Forza's graphics has nothing to do with system performance, the fact is Forza's are far superior. As for the emotion engine being a pile of wank, in the sense that it's just an ordinary processor overhyped to be able to do so much more that it actually can't, it is. Obvoiousely it can create decent looking games but it's no power house like some people seem brainwashed to believe.

 

[akak]

You see the odd game on the PS2 which is up there like GT4 for example, however, this is where it people stop paying attention, GT4 looks fantastic, but it uses a low poly count, flat 2d trees and background, low res textures are all over the place, but PD have used variouse different techniques to make it all look great. From a technical standpoint Forza ****s all over GT4, theres well over twice as many polys per car in Forza than GT4, fully 3d backgrounds and trackside objects ect. Whether you like or dislike Forza's graphics has nothing to do with system performance, the fact is Forza's are far superior. As for the emotion engine being a pile of wank, in the sense that it's just an ordinary processor overhyped to be able to do so much more that it actually can't, it is. Obvoiousely it can create decent looking games but it's no power house like some people seem brainwashed to believe.

ok when it comes to graphics are you going to care which looks better or which is more technically advanced?? graphics is what you see not aload of huge numbers

forza's car has like 10 -15000 polys gt4 has 5000, and yet gt4 car models still look atleast as good, these kind of things has allowed pd to run gt4 at twice the framerate which is important no matter how its dressed up

 

[Dave A]

I'm not arguing against the fact that GT4 looks damn great, I'm arguing the fact the the X-Box is more powerful, a fact GeCcO doesn't understand. Personally I like Forza's graphics, not as real looking as GT4's maybe bt they're still very good.

 

[code_kev]

Akak, no one was arguing that point!

 

[akak]

Akak, no one was arguing that point!

Sorry got a bit carried away

 

[subyman]

I own both Playstation 2 and Xbox. IMO Xbox has the better graphics and is more user friendly (with the hard drive and such.) I only use playstation to play gran turismo and front mission 4. XBox was used to play Fable, Halo 1 and 2, Rallisport 1 and 2, and project gotham racing 1 and 2.

Only thing that makes Playstation good is their designers. Can't wait for PS3 so we can get some awesome graphics.

BTW I dont think Gran Turismo4's graphics are that great at all. I even have it in HD on my DLP TV. I guess I am spoiled with my comp though. Halo 2's graphics were amazing for a console, GT4's are just eh.