GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]
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- GTP_Div
kinigitt
What about the polygons? Is a lower FPS capable on showing more polygones?
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Div is back
it's not really that simple. I guess it's more probable that a game running a lower framerate could be pushing more graphical features like higher polygon counts (forza does pump out a hell of a lot more polys than GT4, naturally, but it still would even with a higher framerate because of the added ressources of the platform.)
It could also just be sloppy optimization.
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- GTP_Div
It is really recognizable or it doesn't matter?
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Div is back
the extra polygons or the lowered framerate?
they're both noticeable, but it depends on the person. Some people would rather have more detailed graphics at the cost of a more smooth framerate, some ***** and moan about lowered framerates and some don't care either way.
forza has a lot more polygons, which is especially noticeable on the track environments. It's also got a lot more bells and whistles tacked on to it's graphics engine than GT4 does, but GT4 competes because the lighting is neat and the art direction is unparalleled (sp?).
Play both on a nice big tv running in either 1080i (GT4) or 480p (both games support it) and decide which you like better, when forza is released of course.
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- GTP_Div
Thanks my fellow neighbor(sp?) 
- 134
nick_1663, it's all good man 
I understood you. Unless you're a true Porsche connoisseur, RUF and Porsche are pretty much identical: RUF is just a company that takes real Porsche kits & body parts, tears them down, then beefs the rides up again and sort of mods them out ... think "extreme make-over" and you'll have it.
Div is back, what kinigitt said, but I'll add that you can definitely get spoiled for one or the other. Rallisport Challenge 2 is a game that happens to boast 'em both: High detail, insane poly counts, and 60 fps.
You do not have to look at these games in 480p or other high definition get-up to easily tell the difference, btw.
-GNJ-
I understood you. Unless you're a true Porsche connoisseur, RUF and Porsche are pretty much identical: RUF is just a company that takes real Porsche kits & body parts, tears them down, then beefs the rides up again and sort of mods them out ... think "extreme make-over" and you'll have it. Div is back, what kinigitt said, but I'll add that you can definitely get spoiled for one or the other. Rallisport Challenge 2 is a game that happens to boast 'em both: High detail, insane poly counts, and 60 fps.
You do not have to look at these games in 480p or other high definition get-up to easily tell the difference, btw.
-GNJ-
i have a question, and sorry if its been covered but i didnt want to spend the whole night reading over 220 pages of posts. heres the deal
forza has ferarri, lambo(not sure about that one), and porsche.
gt/polyphony says they cant get them because of contract.
forza has damage
gt/polyphony says the manufactures wont allow it
forza has engine swaps(am i correcct on this one or have i been misled)
pepole said licsensing would be difficult.
forza is not the only game. the nfs series, and in not talking about underground, have had damage, albeit limited and mostly just scratches, for a while. ive seen ferarris,porsches and lambos in other games than nfs games, not sure if they were ea though. the engine swap thing i have wanted since gt2 and have not seen it in a game before. basically is it just me or can these things be done and poly just dosnt want to pony up the dough to do it. for me these things would meke gt4 greater, its pretty good, i have my gripes about the game, some pretty large but overall its a good game. all i want to know is how do other games do what the people at poly/sony say cant be done. and why dont they do it if they can.
forza has ferarri, lambo(not sure about that one), and porsche.
gt/polyphony says they cant get them because of contract.
forza has damage
gt/polyphony says the manufactures wont allow it
forza has engine swaps(am i correcct on this one or have i been misled)
pepole said licsensing would be difficult.
forza is not the only game. the nfs series, and in not talking about underground, have had damage, albeit limited and mostly just scratches, for a while. ive seen ferarris,porsches and lambos in other games than nfs games, not sure if they were ea though. the engine swap thing i have wanted since gt2 and have not seen it in a game before. basically is it just me or can these things be done and poly just dosnt want to pony up the dough to do it. for me these things would meke gt4 greater, its pretty good, i have my gripes about the game, some pretty large but overall its a good game. all i want to know is how do other games do what the people at poly/sony say cant be done. and why dont they do it if they can.
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- JMarine25
I don't know, Loki. I think we've discussed this a lot on GTPlanet. So I wouldn't have the best idea as to why these makes were not included. As I have stated in my earlier days, if GT4 is to celebrate the history of the automobile, Ferrari, Porsche, and Lamborghini would have to seriously be considered. Even without these three makes, you have to admit. GT4 did a damn good job of getting in as many vehicles from as many points around the world as possible. This is the first racing game I know where you could race something from 1886 all the way up to the future. But as far as why these makes weren't included in GT4, I have a similar situation.
For my PC, I have NASCAR Racing (classic), NASCAR Racing 2, and NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition (actually, NR2 and NR1999 are the same game, just that NR1999 has better graphics and more tracks). If any two tracks define NASCAR Racing, two tracks would have to be included- Daytona and Talladega. In the three NASCAR games I have, Talladega was there, but not Daytona. Guess another big track missing from these games? Right! Indianapolis. To me, the deal would come down to maybe what the manufacturers and executives want to see in games. So if someone made a game where you had to save the MGM Grand in Las Vegas from murderous aliens, and if the MGM Grand owners and lawyers wouldn't want it to be used in a game in this context, then it wouldn't happen no matter how many briefcases of money the game maker puts down to make the thing happen.
So my best answer maybe relates to the manufacturers having their products used and utilized as us GT gamers do. Maybe they don't want to see GT gamers come up with drift settings for a 550 Maranello, a Lambo Murcielago flying over a hump at the Nurburgring, or a Porsche getting banged up by GT gamers when GT5 comes out (remember, GT5 is told to have car damage). It may be the execs not making this happen. Does it make the game bad? No. As long as the game can still be complete with lots to do and see, then it's no problem. Sorry this took so long.
For my PC, I have NASCAR Racing (classic), NASCAR Racing 2, and NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition (actually, NR2 and NR1999 are the same game, just that NR1999 has better graphics and more tracks). If any two tracks define NASCAR Racing, two tracks would have to be included- Daytona and Talladega. In the three NASCAR games I have, Talladega was there, but not Daytona. Guess another big track missing from these games? Right! Indianapolis. To me, the deal would come down to maybe what the manufacturers and executives want to see in games. So if someone made a game where you had to save the MGM Grand in Las Vegas from murderous aliens, and if the MGM Grand owners and lawyers wouldn't want it to be used in a game in this context, then it wouldn't happen no matter how many briefcases of money the game maker puts down to make the thing happen.
So my best answer maybe relates to the manufacturers having their products used and utilized as us GT gamers do. Maybe they don't want to see GT gamers come up with drift settings for a 550 Maranello, a Lambo Murcielago flying over a hump at the Nurburgring, or a Porsche getting banged up by GT gamers when GT5 comes out (remember, GT5 is told to have car damage). It may be the execs not making this happen. Does it make the game bad? No. As long as the game can still be complete with lots to do and see, then it's no problem. Sorry this took so long.
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Tokyo Xtreme Racer Zero had engine swaps but it was just like a generic engine. Is froza like u take a rb26dett and stuff it in antoher vechile or just generac like the other. The damage thing with GT5 will be like sega gt probably since most manufactures dont' take nicley to having there cars destroyed *examples GTA series, Driver Series, Midtown Madness* idk just my guess.
- 252
I think the reason Ferrari, Porsche, et al. won't license their cars for a game like GT4 is because they have an image to maintain. In GT, for the $250k a basic Ferrari would cost you can build a Mitsubishi Lancer that will hand a Ferrari it's ass. Kinda ruins the Ferrari mystique...
I think they might license it to other game series that don't have the level of realism and depth that GT has. Something where you go to a tuner shop and pay a certain amount for a Stage 1 engine and it's the same price, has the same affect on every car, therefore the Ferrari maintains it's edge for the same money spent, but in a game like GT where $40,000 worth of engine mods doubles the HP on a Lancer or Skyline but a $40,000 NA tune on a Ferrari might only add 20% (wouldn't do a tune-up on some Ferraris in real life) the Ferrari begins to look like an overpriced money pit. Ferrari is picky about who they sell their cars to in real life, why would they put it them in a game that any average Joe can buy?
I don't feel like I'm missing anything by Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini not being in the GT series. I think it's awesome that there are totally crappy 30 year old econo-cars in GT4 and not one single Euro-super-exotic.
I think they might license it to other game series that don't have the level of realism and depth that GT has. Something where you go to a tuner shop and pay a certain amount for a Stage 1 engine and it's the same price, has the same affect on every car, therefore the Ferrari maintains it's edge for the same money spent, but in a game like GT where $40,000 worth of engine mods doubles the HP on a Lancer or Skyline but a $40,000 NA tune on a Ferrari might only add 20% (wouldn't do a tune-up on some Ferraris in real life) the Ferrari begins to look like an overpriced money pit. Ferrari is picky about who they sell their cars to in real life, why would they put it them in a game that any average Joe can buy?
I don't feel like I'm missing anything by Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini not being in the GT series. I think it's awesome that there are totally crappy 30 year old econo-cars in GT4 and not one single Euro-super-exotic.
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
If I wanted Ferrari and such, I'd play "Ferrari F355 Challenge," or buy an XBOX and get a PGR game or the full game of "Forza Motorsport." Forza does have my favorite race car, the Ferrari 333SP. I can do without it in GT4, though.
When talking about a deep level of tuning, I don't really hear about Ferrari tuners, so the mention of giving a Stage 3 NA Tune to a Ferrari 360 Modena and maybe a racing transmission shouldn't be too common.
It's funny you mention realism and depth in GT4, because when I played at an EB store with GT4, one person said this (I'm serious):
(not exact quote) "The one negative thing about GT4 is that it's too real."
Do you think that in relation to this statement, that Ferrari would want no part in GT games?
When talking about a deep level of tuning, I don't really hear about Ferrari tuners, so the mention of giving a Stage 3 NA Tune to a Ferrari 360 Modena and maybe a racing transmission shouldn't be too common.
It's funny you mention realism and depth in GT4, because when I played at an EB store with GT4, one person said this (I'm serious):
(not exact quote) "The one negative thing about GT4 is that it's too real."
Do you think that in relation to this statement, that Ferrari would want no part in GT games?
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GT
They do background checks because Enzos are limited production million dollar babies. They don't want any shlub to purchase one with drug money and trash it. They're hand-built cars made by expert craftsmen. Craftsmen have a right to decide who they sell their masterworks to.
what are you people smoking?!
Ferrari...overrated...suuuuuuuuuuure.
Even if you can build a better car with less cash, the mystique is still there. They are beautiful instant classics that have a rich, hugely successful history in motorsports. They're pioneers on the technological side of things as well, implementing features in their cars before other manufacturers dream of them. To deny their importance is just ignorant, like saying BMWs are overrated just because lawyer-types and executive's wives drive them.
And you don't think Forza offers this option? Forza offers nothing but real world tuner parts, licensed parts, buy it in forza, it's available in the real world... So yes, even in Forza you can tune your ricer to beat any of the above supercar manufactueres. However, there is a thing as "class" restrictions... so even though it can beat a 1/4 million dollar car, it is not nor will it be in the same class as a ferrari, porschebfifteenv
That's what makes it the Ultimate Driving Simulator... as you may know, I don't know, umm perhaps from the TITLE, Forza Motorsport focuses on the aspect of a racing. In which case, Ferrari and Porsche play a huge role in motorsport racing as well as many other supercar giants... (btw, Lamborghini's are not in Forza's initial release)bfifteenv
Sorry Soman, not on this generation console from MS.. perhaps the upcoming will have a deal resolved with Immersion.. as many know, MS settled a suit for $26 million because of patent infringement back in feb '02 ... and Sony for $82 million in sept '04... IMHO, sony got off light considering all the popularity they gained by providing FF as opposed to MS not. read hereSoman
I would imagine that if a game as ****ty as Midnight Club 3: Dub Ed. can squeeze out a Lambo Murc. from EA, any license [or partial] acquisition is possible if wanted bad enough...SwiftUh....Well, licensing pretty much takes care of that. You think they don't want Porsche and Ferrari in there?
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- swift-bass
NoBoDy_X
Midnight club is not even a simulation series. Do you really think Microsoft and EA would let go of their license of two great car brands that they have exclusive rights, to one of the best selling driving games of all time? Hmmm....no.
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- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
kenton
As I believe it, correct me if I'm wrong, Microsoft has the license for Porsche and Ferrari. Since sega is out of the hardware business and is just making games now, I'm sure they could use microsoft's license to produce a game on the Xbox. But you notice that it didn't come out on PS2.
That's the situation as I know it.
No what they did was make a game thats too much for the PS2, that's why it's not as visually appealing in race as it is in say photomode. That's why everyone is having compatability problems, that's why alot of crap is going wrong.toleman19
-edit..--
And as for the whole realistic factor...
Just go take a glance at the top speed threads. End of story there.
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