GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[Gabkicks]

Lamborghini's don't even have to handle all that well, they sell on charisma alone.

did you notice i said "to some degree"?

The 1st supercar I ever fell in love with was a lamborghini diablo VT in the 1st Need for speed game with its No abs and gnarly power., so lambo has a special place in my heart even though i acknowledge that Ferrari produces better cars of the same class.
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That splitscreen video was nice. It showed off the attention to detail forza has. But i wish the framerate woulda been better for the vid. I understand that the actuall game might not look that choppy...

 

[kinigitt]

did you notice i said "to some degree"?

The 1st supercar I ever fell in love with was a lamborghini diablo VT in the 1st Need for speed game with its No abs and gnarly power., so lambo has a special place in my heart even though i acknowledge that Ferrari produces better cars of the same class.
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That splitscreen video was nice. It showed off the attention to detail forza has. But i wish the framerate woulda been better for the vid. I understand that the actuall game might not look that choppy...

yeah the vid was made with the december build, the crashy stuttery buggy one that tha_con has.

did anyone see the GDC keynote speech video doing the rounds? forza looks puuurrrty in that one. There's some brief replay footage of the Blue Dukes NSX vs. a tuned 350Z and some shots of the menu for xbox 2.

 

[Ubiquitous]

The 2nd picture (blue skyline) is actually a car in the air (as in from a jump it seems), if you compare it to other piccies, you can tell. Compare that one to the skyline 2 piccies down. Anyway, it's just shadows, it does let it down, but when you swing the camera round to the side, the cars do not float what so ever.

During jump

Not in a jump

if you can't see the difference, your blind.

Fair enough one is mid 'jump'.

They both still look like they are floating, just one less than the other.

 

[kinigitt]

Fair enough one is mid 'jump'.

They both still look like they are floating, just one less than the other.

oh bugger! you're still on about that? just go play GT4 and give this business a rest.

People are going to like the game regardless of your fascination with bad screenshots.

 

[McLaren]

kinigitt, he still has a point.

It is a - against Forza.

 

[kinigitt]

kinigitt, he still has a point.

It is a - against Forza.

that's been stated and restated like... A LOT. the shadows are goofy.

OMFG I am so not interested in the game now.

 

[GT40racer]

I'm gonna go back to the graphics arguement about ps2/xbox, i know the xbox is much more powerful, and the average xbox games have better graphics than ps2 games, but you know every now and then ps2 turns out games that blow most xbox games outta the water, such as the very early release, MGS2, that game still looks absolutely magnificent, and it came out before xbox was even out i believe, it took awhile for most xbox games to catch up, and obviously gt3 was a work of art for its time as well, all im saying is it seems like every now and then ps2 developers work particularly hard on a game and it turns out looking better than xbox games, those are few and far between of course.


also, i think ive actually seen videos of early ps3 in its developmental stages, and all i can say is, from what ive seen, ps3 makes real life seem like it has a low frame rate and bad graphics, i mean what kind of graphics engine is mother nature running anyway? psshhh, it sucks.

 

[JohnBM01]

First of all, I am a good Ferrari fan. Forza has my one of my favorite exotics and one of my favorite race cars, the 360 Modena and the 333SP. I'm not trying to bring about a broken record on Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini in GT4. Would I want Forza even if to only race Ferraris and such? Well, I wouldn't really buy a game for just one make of car or what have you. The game dynamics have to be as sweet as the cars themselves. My primary argument is that you can do without. I love Ferrari, Porsche, and such, but I really wouldn't mind them in a GT game.

The one thing I haven't done with Forza is race without the driver aids. I'll probably predict right now that Forza is going to make your life hell without the driver aids. I know what GT is like with TCS and ASM on, so I can imagine what it will probably be like with the driver aids off.

 

[JohnBM01]

By the way, I was wondering what that track was that had the blue R34 Skyline in a Bathurst-type environment. Yeah, I know that track is based on Bathurst, but not THE Mount Panorama circuit. What do you think Forza has going for it in terms of ficticious tracks? You know, Gran Turismo has perhaps the number one track in the series, Grand Valley Speedway. I think if you're going to play GT's game, you'll maybe need a great circuit for racing. You know, a signature race course that brings together skill levels from newbie to master. So, what does Forza have going for it in terms of a "signature track?"

 

[cobragt]

That vid of forza vs reality is too low quality, making forza look almost photorealistic but it's far from photorealistic. Try looking at better quality vids of forza, you'll see it's not in the least photorealistic compared to gt4.

 

[cobragt]

I believe gt4 is plenty realistic. A friend of mine who's a drifter was able to drift in a tuned supra I did. Now he has never played a gt game in his life and for him to be able to drift in gt4, just like that, like he does in "real life" means something.

 

[legroom]

What a topic!! As a newbie to the forum, it's awesome to see such open and generally unbiased debate!

Both games have their + and -'s, it just the way any game is....

Ferrari and Porsche not being there (Porsche IS through RUF), isn't actually that big a blow in my view... especially with 700 cars to choose from!
Forza does look to have it's good points too, the skyline shots above (floating or not!) look impressive

But having played finally played GT4, i feel it's going to have it's work cut out. Kazunori-san has raised the bar again...

 

[Pak]

I believe gt4 is plenty realistic. A friend of mine who's a drifter was able to drift in a tuned supra I did. Now he has never played a gt game in his life and for him to be able to drift in gt4, just like that, like he does in "real life" means something.

No it doesn't mean anything, the physics still suck.

 

[cobragt]

The physics suck? Ha! I hope you enjoy forza's motionless cars. Seriously, I have been waiting to see a car in forza actually have convincing weight transfers but I guess I'll stick with gt4 and enthusia for that.

 

[code_kev]

Gt4's physics certainly do not suck, but cobra, neither do forzas, so please stop pretending they do. You know as well as I that the weight transfer and physics in forza are on par with GTs.

 

[Pak]

The physics suck? Ha! I hope you enjoy forza's motionless cars. Seriously, I have been waiting to see a car in forza actually have convincing weight transfers but I guess I'll stick with gt4 and enthusia for that.

I won't enjoy forza's motionless cars because I don't have money to buy a xbox.
GT4's cars may have bodyroll but suspension modelling certainly isn't realistic... so are the tyre physics.

 

[code_kev]

The way tyres behave in GT4 does leave alot to be desired, even in the ye olde forza demo the way they bite in to the tarmac is far superior imo.

 

[Swift]

The way tyres behave in GT4 does leave alot to be desired, even in the ye olde forza demo the way they bite in to the tarmac is far superior imo.

Not to me at all. My Integra Type R can stop on a dime. It's all about how the car is setup. Besides, how many cars off the production line can just stop whenever they feel like it? Except of course for the $40K and higher cars.

 

[cobragt]

In forza, you tap the brake botton and you get skid marks =| I believe the forza demo over did braking but ofcourse that can be fixed. Gt4's suspension modeling is very close.

 

[code_kev]

The problem in forza was that the triggers were over sensitive, as if they were either off braking, or braking to the max. No one even mentioned Gt4's suspension tbh.

Least ya get skidmarks

 

[cobragt]

true code, skid marks would be lovely. I have had my fair share of traction lose on the nurb

 

[code_kev]

Ja, the nurb really does kick some ass, I love taking my beastly skyline on it, may not be my fastest car, but its certainly fun!

 

[kinigitt]

Not to me at all. My Integra Type R can stop on a dime. It's all about how the car is setup. Besides, how many cars off the production line can just stop whenever they feel like it? Except of course for the $40K and higher cars.

yeah but the tire physics are vague and behave like they're on a slider scale rather than attempting true realism. Except for the N1s, which offer a decent but still lacking amount of feedback.

the rest of the physics are very good, especially the sensation of weight for each car.

 

[Pak]

I mentioned suspension code_kev.

Gt4's suspension modeling is very close.

It's nowhere near as realistic as it could be. The body doesn't bounce as much as it should, all it does roll.
The tyremodel is completely off, maybe some of the tyres have the same amount of grip as real life tyres but it fails to simulate alot of other tyre characteristics.

 

[Lambo88]

I am following this arguement since the very beginning and I'm happy to see that some people who were sayin' Forza sucked now realize that GT got competition. I mean, seriously, GT desperately needs some steps forward: Online play, good AI for once, damage, at least visual and a balanced and really international car lineup*.

I'm really shocked that there is no 1964 Mustang in GT4, the first model of a 40 year tradition, now that's history, at least as much as the Skyline or Lancer. And there are no C6 Corvette, CTS-V,Firebirds but the 2006 Eclipse is in here. I'm waiting for a real equal treatment, wether the make is japanese or not.

The game's still good but saying it's 9.5/10 is pure overrating, I'd say 8/10.

 

[code_kev]

I'd give Gt4 a big solid 9/10, deserves it. 9.5/10 is taking the piss though.

 

[Swift]

I am following this arguement since the very beginning and I'm happy to see that some people who were sayin' Forza sucked now realize that GT got competition. I mean, seriously, GT desperately needs some steps forward: Online play, good AI for once, damage, at least visual and a balanced and really international car lineup*.

I'm really shocked that there is no 1964 Mustang in GT4, the first model of a 40 year tradition, now that's history, at least as much as the Skyline or Lancer. And there are no C6 Corvette, CTS-V,Firebirds but the 2006 Eclipse is in here. I'm waiting for a real equal treatment, wether the make is japanese or not.

The game's still good but saying it's 9.5/10 is pure overrating, I'd say 8/10.

Online play, well XBox is the only system right now with stable online play capabilities. Damage, eh, if implemented incorrectly could be much worse then better. As far as the car lineup being unbalanced. Well, if you look at it from a nation of origin standpoint, that's true.

Forza only has about 200 or so cars right? The damage I've seen so far has been completely ludicrous. I like the idea that Enthusia has, there's a meter that you have. When you exhaust the meter, your car is unusuable. I think that's a lot better then driving a car with busted out windows and a bumper hanging off.

I'm sure forza is going to be fun and in general a good game. I just honestly don't believe the physics engine is going to be as good as GT4. I know the Forza does some stuff that GT4 flat out doesn't do. Like tire residue, engine swaps, body kits, repainting cars(should be in GT! ), and of course the online capabilities.

But when all is said and done with a sim, what matters is the physics engine. So, my opinion, GT4 is about a 9.25/10. There are a few REALLY annoying things about it, but it's still incredible. As far as Forza we will of course have to wait and see. I just don't think the physics engine is going to live up to the hype.

 

[jojobean]

The physics in Forza seem alittle more realistic to me. For example it was much easier to run a fast lap at laguna my first try, however on Forza it took about two hours to figure out. The way the car comes into that first corner, if you dont get it right it pushes through and scrubs off alot of speed, feels much more natural to me. It seems you have to keep the car fairly neutral which is closer to real life. and at least it has the option to turn on the abs, i love gt4 but this really should have been an option instead of completely removed, as it is really hard to get right with the ds2. The physics in gt4 seem better at first but when you get in a race car its pretty close to gt3, YES it is better but not as much as i thought in the beginning. i just love to drive so ill deffinately be getting this as well and enthusia and juiced and any other game that seems worth a ****.

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

Lambo88-

Wow, good points about the stunning American omissions. Crap, hows about half a dozen fewer frickin' Skylines in there and throw in one lousy '64 'Stang. Right?

I swear, if I had the CHANCE, I'd never drive a Skyline now. I've been Skylined to death.

And the omission of the Corvette C6 is equally unforgivable. But then, so is the crappy 2-page "manual" we American's got and blah blah blah. Always something one can find to complain about, I guess.

Anyway. Yo check it:

I fear for Forza now. It used to be, I was confident. But with more hours into GT4, the physics engine is showing itself, and man it's something.

Put it this way. I've been running the 'Ring in Ferraris in PGR2 for a year now. Never in that year have I experienced the butt-puckering sense of speed and danger and the pure texture of the drive as I have in GT4. I feel that because of this particular stregth, Forza will have its work cut out (legroom took the words out of my mouth) if it's to come anywhere close to replicating that experience.

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You guys are fight over the shadows and appearance of floatiness - meh that's nothing. Wait'll you get a screen full of mediocre framerates half that of GT4. That'll be the real adjustment challenge right there.

Speaking of... Does anyone know? I feel like GT4 is exceeding 60 fps. I have read people claim it runs faster than GT3, perhaps in the 70s. Guesses?

-GNJ-

 

[cobragt]

I dont think anyone can judge forza fully yet because how many of us have played forza with a wheel and how many of us know how cars handle when driven by controllers Seriously, I cant see how anyone can play a sim with a controller, that's me though.