GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[tha_con]

With the power XBOX "claims" to have, it should be runnin at 60FPS...there's absolutely no excuse, only lazy programmers. Period. The game is going to be half assed, the frame rate should be your first clue.

 

[Cosmic]

With the power XBOX "claims" to have, it should be runnin at 60FPS...there's absolutely no excuse, only lazy programmers. Period. The game is going to be half assed, the frame rate should be your first clue.

👍 Agree!
Xbox can handel more then a PS2 , and yes , there is no exuces.

 

[Keitaro333]

When will everyone come to understand that Xbox dont have really more of power than PS2... With really quality PS2 coding, that is...

Forza seems quite impressive, not more than GT4 i guess but really very nice. But running 30 fps, GT4 can have more polys, 3d rims, aero parts, damage and everything else just like Forza...

Just look ak impressive quality of GTA San Andreas in 60fps...

 

[Cosmic]

And I can't belive that Microsoft worked on Forza in 2 years....

 

[LegacySTI]

And I can't belive that Microsoft worked on Forza in 2 years....

PS2 at the beginning was ridiculously hard to program for because Sony is not a software company, they don't have the resources to build a industial quality dev kit until recently big companies created their own tools for building games have speed up development time..

Microsoft is a software co, they made better dev kits than Sony cuts the developer's time down considerable, that's why Xbox has more games in the 1st year than the PS2's 1st year.

 

[amuSe]

You played Forza? how do colors affect the performance of a simulator physics wise?

No i didn't play it, but i watched people playing it. TGS, last weekend.
Of course the colors don't have anything to do with the gameplay... physics...
I was just stating that the colors look more like a typical arcade racer, Ridge Racer for example, than a racing simulator.
enthusia looks better to me.

 

[code_kev]

Just look ak impressive quality of GTA San Andreas in 60fps...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA it's 30. The engine limits it at 30, the ps2 struggeled to handle vice city at 30.
The excuse is simply that forza is doing over twice as much as Gt4. Like what I hear you ask? I say, more cars, damage, paint damage, oil spills, interiors, higher poly cars, decent AI, true 5.1 sound, more detailed tracks, physics that are meant to rival GT4s (tires heat up etc), better quality textures overall, 3d rims, drivers in ALL the cars(not just 2 open tops ), self shadowing cars. Strip all this away, I'm sure it would run at 60 . Personally, I'd lose track detail, and get that frame rate to 60.

The game is going to be half assed, the frame rate should be your first clue.

So vice city, halo, splinter cell PD and the million other brilliant games at 30fps are half assed?

 

[Front]

No i didn't play it, but i watched people playing it. TGS, last weekend.
Of course the colors don't have anything to do with the gameplay... physics...
I was just stating that the colors look more like a typical arcade racer, Ridge Racer for example, than a racing simulator.
enthusia looks better to me.

Ummm, I don't know what you were looking at but everyone else thinks the game looks extremely realistic, please read through the IGN views from, TGS...

With the folks at Sony recently announcing that Gran Turismo 4 will no longer be online, more eyes will now be focused on Microsoft's fledging racer Forza Motorsport, as it will most certainly be online-enabled with the Xbox Live . Can the racer capture the hearts, minds and right feet of racing enthusiasts? We got a chance to go hands-on with it again at this year's Tokyo Game Show, and it appears that the game is well on its way to a victory lap.

To compete with the likes of GT4, a game like Forza has to be handsome, and we're happy to report that it is looking grand. The cars themselves are nearly picture-perfect, and we saw a variety of them—F1 models, the Nissan 350Z, Dodge Viper and even a Porsche. Many, many more will be available in the final game. Microsoft has done an excellent job of securing licensed cars that everyone wants to drive, and they aren't afraid to get these models damaged (which is sometimes a problem in the world of racing sims).

During the test drive here at TGS, I managed to steer my way into a wall here and there, and got an opportunity to see the damage close up. Early on, there are scratches and dings, but after a few trips into the barrier, the bumper was hanging loose (of course, the only reason I steered into the wall was to explore the damage).

In addition to the beautiful rendering of the vehicles, the tracks also looked nice. We got an opportunity to play one of the Japanese-exclusive tracks, a winding speedway with more than its fair share of hairpin turns. The textures on the tracks are good, and the speedway we saw was all decked out with appropriate signage and other details. All in all, the biggest compliment one can give Forza is that it looks extremely realistic.

The framerate maintains at a constant clip, which is huge for any racing game. Everything flows by smooth as silk, with nary a hitch, even when several vehicles are on the screen. At times a sense of speed seems to be slightly lacking, but this could be partially due to the class of car we raced with.

As with any simulation-style game, there is a good deal of learning curve to contend with in regards to how to approach turns, when to brake, etc. Thankfully, the control is slick and responsive, and successfully ties you to the action on the track. Bottom line, Forza handles well, and we can't wait to try out the wide variety of cars waiting in its garage. In addition, there is a good deal of pre-race customization to be done, and we didn't get a great opportunity to explore this facet of the game on the floor here.

It looks like Xbox owners are finally going to get a sim-style racer that they've been craving. Forza is looking impressive, and we can't wait to spend some quality time with a build of it. Stay tuned to IGN Xbox for more details, including more information on car choices and customization.

Now don't get me wrong here I think GT4 looks more realistic but GT4 looks very fake when compared to a proper racing scene, neither game is perfect and in some area's i'd say Forza looks even more realistic than GT4 and vice versa.

GT4 uses very extreme lighting looking at the Nurb especially the track's are too shiny and also the extreme lighting makes it look surreal sometimes I think the dark's are too dark and the bright area's are too bright almost like hyper realism.

The reason Forza run's at 30 FPS is because of what it need's to render think about it..

Forza - 30FPS / DAMAGE / 16 Car's / 100 Layers per car / High Res Textures /

GT4 - 60FPS / 6 Car's / Low Res Textures /

Now Forza obviously display MUCH more than GT4 also Forza's vehicles use more polygon's, i'm very happy they decided to go for more features than removing stuff to get it too run at 60FPS.

The people on this board who are bashing Forza a game which has recieved alot of praise from various media and is already generating a following, you guys are very stupid.

Sonic "was" invinsible
Mario "was" invinsible
Nintento & SEGA were God's

No empire is EVER secure and you'd be stupid to think that Gran Turismo can't be knocked off it's throne..

 

[code_kev]

Front, don't bother, the fan boys view the fact it runs at 30 as some kind of "ps2 is more powerful" victory. Quite pathetic actually.

*shoves panzer orta into fanboys face*

beat that

 

[HoboPipe]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA it's 30. The engine limits it at 30, the ps2 struggeled to handle vice city at 30.
The excuse is simply that forza is doing over twice as much as Gt4. Like what I hear you ask? I say, more cars, damage, paint damage, oil spills, interiors, higher poly cars, decent AI, true 5.1 sound, more detailed tracks, physics that are meant to rival GT4s (tires heat up etc), better quality textures overall, 3d rims, drivers in ALL the cars(not just 2 open tops ), self shadowing cars. Strip all this away, I'm sure it would run at 60 . Personally, I'd lose track detail, and get that frame rate to 60.


So vice city, halo, splinter cell PD and the million other brilliant games at 30fps are half assed?

You missed AA. I'm 90% it has that too.

 

[Kaniyodrift]

Front, don't bother, the fan boys view the fact it runs at 30 as some kind of "ps2 is more powerful" victory. Quite pathetic actually.

*shoves panzer orta into fanboys face*

beat that

unlike PDO, Forza won't do 1080i - only 480p

and btw, will ya ppl stop the crap about features like teh 100 layaz
fact is, XBox is considered to be superior technology
60fps standard in racing games was set by GT3 in 2oo1 on a hardware whose specs were finalised in 1999...

bottom line:
STOP DEFENDIN FLOPZA'S SUB-STANDARD FPS ALREADY!

 

[code_kev]

But Gt3s graphics are pretty crap, don't argue, they are.

"doom 1 runs smoother then doom 3, thus it looks better"

I defend it because some dunces on the forums can't seem to realise thet MORE polys and detail = less frame rate, even on the xbox, which isn't some 3 ghz uber console

 

[Kaniyodrift]

But Gt3s graphics are pretty crap, don't argue, they are.

"doom 1 runs smoother then doom 3, thus it looks better"

I defend it because some dunces on the forums can't seem to realise thet MORE polys and detail = less frame rate, even on the xbox, which isn't some 3 ghz uber console

u pretty much blew it with that Doom-argument - can u make Forza or PGR2 run 60fps by changing videocard in XBox? Nope.
On consoles, there is no "let's make it look teh über - eventually there'll be videocards that run it well"

 

[Pak]

u pretty much blew it with that Doom-argument - can u make Forza or PGR2 run 60fps by changing videocard in XBox? Nope.
On consoles, there is no "let's make it look teh über - eventually there'll be videocards that run it well"

Kaniyodrift, what would you prefer of the following?
60FPS without: dynamic tracks, damage, better physics, 16 cars etc.
or
30FPS with: dynamic tracks, damage, better physics, 16 cars etc.

 

[9mm]

Kaniyodrift, what would you prefer of the following?
60FPS without: dynamic tracks, damage, better physics, 16 cars etc.
or
30FPS with: dynamic tracks, damage, better physics, 16 cars etc.

I'm far from being a fanboy, but that hurted.
You got any prof for that particular statement.
Or i Just misunderstood your post and you are not reffering to GT?

EDIT.

Crap, I forgot that quoting doesn't feature bolded fonts. So I am refering to worse physics...

 

[tha_con]

But Gt3s graphics are pretty crap, don't argue, they are.

"doom 1 runs smoother then doom 3, thus it looks better"

I defend it because some dunces on the forums can't seem to realise thet MORE polys and detail = less frame rate, even on the xbox, which isn't some 3 ghz uber console

Don't pretend that forza is THAT good. Fact is not that it's MORE polys and more detail. The FACT is that Microsoft chose to use dated weak programming support (DirectX) and provided little to no help to the developers, so a lot of the people who code for other consoles (and get lots of help from other companies, i.e. sony/nintendo) do not bother to go the extra inch with DirectX...it is very possible to make games run well with Direct X, however the developers are lazy, and they halfass their way around things. If PS2 can run GT4 at it's limits, at a smooth 60 fps, then there is absolutely no excuse that dated hardware can do this, yet a superior console, with a harddrive, and faster processor, more memory, can only look MARGINALLY better...absolutely none. ANd as for Physics...you act as if it runs at 30fps because the game is going to be the most realistic thing you've ever played..but no. They didn't even implement FF wheel support...so HOW can this game be THAT great...you cannot experience physics and say they are accurate with a joystick...so in essence they are not.

 

[tha_con]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA it's 30. The engine limits it at 30, the ps2 struggeled to handle vice city at 30.
The excuse is simply that forza is doing over twice as much as Gt4. Like what I hear you ask? I say, more cars, damage, paint damage, oil spills, interiors, higher poly cars, decent AI, true 5.1 sound, more detailed tracks, physics that are meant to rival GT4s (tires heat up etc), better quality textures overall, 3d rims, drivers in ALL the cars(not just 2 open tops ), self shadowing cars. Strip all this away, I'm sure it would run at 60 . Personally, I'd lose track detail, and get that frame rate to 60.


So vice city, halo, splinter cell PD and the million other brilliant games at 30fps are half assed?

Halo: Boring FPS, same thing as anyone has ever seen, nothing new...half assed.

Vice City: Ran at 30FPS on PS2, should have run at 60 on XBOX...but no.

SPlinter Cell: MGS wanna be. Good, but not great...visuals do not make a game, but if the game is only par, then it needs to look decent.

Also, these games are not "brilliant" Halo is a rehashed FPS (they all are), Vice City is just a rehash, they "add new things" big whoop...(San Andreas will be innovative....VC is not). Splinter Cell is far from it, just another game to compete with a powerhouse like MG.

Also, let me point out a few things:

" I say, more cars, damage, paint damage, oil spills, interiors, higher poly cars, decent AI, true 5.1 sound, more detailed tracks, physics that are meant to rival GT4s (tires heat up etc), better quality textures overall, 3d rims, drivers in ALL the cars(not just 2 open tops ), self shadowing cars"

Damage: Unreal
Paint Damage: Like you're going to notice this a whole lot when your trying to win a race...
Interiors: Read above....
Higher Poly Cars: that don't look much better...
Decent AI: you haven't played it...no one really knows how "decent" it is
More Detailed Tracks: Uhh....not from what I've seen...they have no DOF...they look fake.
Physics: BAHAHAHA...because EVERYONE already knows this huh? NO ONE knows...you haven't even played GT4 NOR Forza...how can you compare? YOU CAN'T...and forza is in it's first series...FIRST...this is a DEBUT...they won't be PERFECT...it'll be a process...but not near GT4...I'll put money on that.
Drivers in all cars: um...I do believe there are drivers in all the GT4 cars...just that you can see them better in the convertables...but whatever you say fanboy...
self shadowing cars: if by this you mean real time lighting...even GT3 had this...seriously now?

 

[Pak]

I'm far from being a fanboy, but that hurted.
You got any prof for that particular statement.
Or i Just misunderstood your post and you are not reffering to GT?

EDIT.

Crap, I forgot that quoting doesn't feature bolded fonts. So I am refering to worse physics...

I mean like if you have GT4 with 30FPS they can spend more power on other things.
I didn't mean that Forza has better physics. Sorry.

 

[code_kev]

my monthly long post, I'd like to thank JohnBM

It's a-quoting time....

Don't pretend that forza is THAT good. Fact is not that it's MORE polys and more detail.

Yes it is you utter twonk, as they say, double the polys, half the frame rate. 16 cars with damage models, drivers, high detail tracks = an utter **** load of polys. Other things like 5.1 sound etc also take a toll on the fps etc.

I agree DX is not the best (opengl would have been better), but devs ALLREADY know it, and MS are meant to provide pretty good support from what I've read. BTW using hardware effects does NOT, I repeat NOT count as being lazy. Man, you call me a fanboy. Yes tha_con, software effects are better....

If PS2 can run GT4 at it's limits, at a smooth 60 fps, then there is absolutely no excuse that dated hardware can do this, yet a superior console, with a harddrive, and faster processor, more memory, can only look MARGINALLY better...absolutely none.

Gt4 is low poly and low res in terms of textures. Gt4 looks like it does because of PD's fantastic art direction and lighting.

and as for Physics...you act as if it runs at 30fps because the game is going to be the most realistic thing you've ever played..but no.

Quote me .

They didn't even implement FF wheel support...so HOW can this game be THAT great...

Sigh.

Halo: Boring FPS, same thing as anyone has ever seen, nothing new...half assed.

Tha_con: Raving fanboy, wouldn't know a good game if it hit him. Halo rules.

Vice City: Ran at 30FPS on PS2, should have run at 60 on XBOX...but no.

ENGINE LIMITATIONS. Anyway, xbox version looked alot nicer, and ran at a SOLID 30. I also wanna point out that twice the power does NOT mean twice as good graphics. Same on the pc one, turn the frame limiter off and the engine goes nuts.

SPlinter Cell: MGS wanna be. Good, but not great...visuals do not make a game, but if the game is only par, then it needs to look decent.

MGS is a shallow room by room pile of crap. Splinter cell is a far deeper game then the MGS, style over substance

Also, these games are not "brilliant" Halo is a rehashed FPS (they all are), Vice City is just a rehash, they "add new things" big whoop...(San Andreas will be innovative....VC is not). Splinter Cell is far from it, just another game to compete with a powerhouse like MG.

For god sake, then I could say "half life is not brilliant because it's JUST a rehash FPS", fs, IT'S CALLED GENRES. . Powerhouse...wtf are you on about.

Btw, self shadowing is something that gt3, c, p and 4 doesn't have. And don't try and rubbish having extra details, it's the little details that make he difference imo. GT4 drivers consist of black splodges behind black glass, unless it's open top races, where there are ONLY 2 cars on track at once. 2 cars....titter. I'm not slagging Gt4 off or anything, I'm only saying that forza looks like a really damn good game too, offering some things missing from GT4 (online racing etc), while Gt4 offers things forza will miss (ridiculous amount of cars etc). And yes, even through a pad you can appreciate a good racing game, stop being such a snob.

Btw I'm not trying to pretend 30 is in anyway good for a racing game, but I try and consider why.

 

[Mr.Kwik]

I would gladly play forza if it looked like GT3, I think the grfx in 3 was good enough. but with all of the added features of Forza it should and will be a great game. Like I have stated before it's all about the gameplay it don't have to be a perfect polished masterpeice to have a competitive race. We are still linking up on 3 and I think it's fine graphic wise but I am old school, I remember getting PONG for xmas and just dying to see space invaders and Asteroids. 👍

 

[kinigitt]

Halo: Boring FPS, same thing as anyone has ever seen, nothing new...half assed.

Vice City: Ran at 30FPS on PS2, should have run at 60 on XBOX...but no.

SPlinter Cell: MGS wanna be. Good, but not great...visuals do not make a game, but if the game is only par, then it needs to look decent.

Also, these games are not "brilliant" Halo is a rehashed FPS (they all are), Vice City is just a rehash, they "add new things" big whoop...(San Andreas will be innovative....VC is not). Splinter Cell is far from it, just another game to compete with a powerhouse like MG.

Also, let me point out a few things:

" I say, more cars, damage, paint damage, oil spills, interiors, higher poly cars, decent AI, true 5.1 sound, more detailed tracks, physics that are meant to rival GT4s (tires heat up etc), better quality textures overall, 3d rims, drivers in ALL the cars(not just 2 open tops ), self shadowing cars"

Damage: Unreal
Paint Damage: Like you're going to notice this a whole lot when your trying to win a race...
Interiors: Read above....
Higher Poly Cars: that don't look much better...
Decent AI: you haven't played it...no one really knows how "decent" it is
More Detailed Tracks: Uhh....not from what I've seen...they have no DOF...they look fake.
Physics: BAHAHAHA...because EVERYONE already knows this huh? NO ONE knows...you haven't even played GT4 NOR Forza...how can you compare? YOU CAN'T...and forza is in it's first series...FIRST...this is a DEBUT...they won't be PERFECT...it'll be a process...but not near GT4...I'll put money on that.
Drivers in all cars: um...I do believe there are drivers in all the GT4 cars...just that you can see them better in the convertables...but whatever you say fanboy...
self shadowing cars: if by this you mean real time lighting...even GT3 had this...seriously now?

I could take the time to rip your post to shreds, but that would be pointless, as there will be 3 more dingbats to take your place. So I'm just going to tell you that you are absolutely right and point you to the exit. Come back when the garbage stops flowing from your fingertips.

 

[tha_con]

I could take the time to rip your post to shreds, but that would be pointless, as there will be 3 more dingbats to take your place. So I'm just going to tell you that you are absolutely right and point you to the exit. Come back when the garbage stops flowing from your fingertips.

as soon as the feces stops falling from your lips

 

[tha_con]

my monthly long post, I'd like to thank JohnBM

It's a-quoting time....



Yes it is you utter twonk, as they say, double the polys, half the frame rate. 16 cars with damage models, drivers, high detail tracks = an utter **** load of polys. Other things like 5.1 sound etc also take a toll on the fps etc.

Learn to read and understand. I said the fact is not that it has high polys and extras, it SHOULD be able to run on Xbox, but it can't, because of poor development.

DX is terrible, and developers know how to use it...FOR PC's...that's why most xbox games come out the way they do, like PC games...weak.

Halo is not a good game, it's an average game. I would take Unreal or TimeSplitters even for that matter, hell GoldenEye on the N64 was loads better than halo...and the online play is overrated...seriously get some friends and a life, not an online counter part.

As far as me knowing good games..right...because we all know that all the ports TO xbox rock.

 

[kinigitt]

Learn to read and understand. I said the fact is not that it has high polys and extras, it SHOULD be able to run on Xbox, but it can't, because of poor development.

DX is terrible, and developers know how to use it...FOR PC's...that's why most xbox games come out the way they do, like PC games...weak.

Halo is not a good game, it's an average game. I would take Unreal or TimeSplitters even for that matter, hell GoldenEye on the N64 was loads better than halo...and the online play is overrated...seriously get some friends and a life, not an online counter part.

As far as me knowing good games..right...because we all know that all the ports TO xbox rock.

Seriously. Go away. Nobody will miss you here.

 

[Gabkicks]

when people have to resort to personal insults you have to question the strength of their arguments. and thier maturity/intelligence

 

[kinigitt]

when people have to resort to personal insults you have to question the strength of their arguments. and thier maturity/intelligence

good thing I'm not arguing. hehe.

 

[HoboPipe]

Learn to read and understand. I said the fact is not that it has high polys and extras, it SHOULD be able to run on Xbox, but it can't, because of poor development.

DX is terrible, and developers know how to use it...FOR PC's...that's why most xbox games come out the way they do, like PC games...weak.

Halo is not a good game, it's an average game. I would take Unreal or TimeSplitters even for that matter, hell GoldenEye on the N64 was loads better than halo...and the online play is overrated...seriously get some friends and a life, not an online counter part.

As far as me knowing good games..right...because we all know that all the ports TO xbox rock.

PC games are weak? Oooooh boy, does anyone know what button on my keyboard kicks people off the internet because I would really like to know?

 

[kinigitt]

PC games are weak? Oooooh boy, does anyone know what button on my keyboard kicks people off the internet because I would really like to know?

I'd rather have a button on my keyboard that kicks people. hard.

 

[erahk64]

They didn't even implement FF wheel support...so HOW can this game be THAT great...you cannot experience physics and say they are accurate with a joystick...so in essence they are not.

The developers said they are still working on force feedback wheel support in Forza.

 

[amuSe]

Ummm, I don't know what you were looking at but everyone else thinks the game looks extremely realistic, please read through the IGN views from, TGS...





Now don't get me wrong here I think GT4 looks more realistic but GT4 looks very fake when compared to a proper racing scene, neither game is perfect and in some area's i'd say Forza looks even more realistic than GT4 and vice versa.

GT4 uses very extreme lighting looking at the Nurb especially the track's are too shiny and also the extreme lighting makes it look surreal sometimes I think the dark's are too dark and the bright area's are too bright almost like hyper realism.

The reason Forza run's at 30 FPS is because of what it need's to render think about it..

Forza - 30FPS / DAMAGE / 16 Car's / 100 Layers per car / High Res Textures /

GT4 - 60FPS / 6 Car's / Low Res Textures /

Now Forza obviously display MUCH more than GT4 also Forza's vehicles use more polygon's, i'm very happy they decided to go for more features than removing stuff to get it too run at 60FPS.

The people on this board who are bashing Forza a game which has recieved alot of praise from various media and is already generating a following, you guys are very stupid.

Sonic "was" invinsible
Mario "was" invinsible
Nintento & SEGA were God's

No empire is EVER secure and you'd be stupid to think that Gran Turismo can't be knocked off it's throne..

hehe, i don't have to read what IGN says. I've been in japan for 9 months and i was at the TGS. forza was nothing too thrilling, again, i think enthusia racing is going to be much more realistic than forza.
gt4, specially the nurburgring, just feels right.
i think tho that in the future with a little bit more of an effort and more money, other companies will do games with the same quality of GT4.