GT4 WRS Week 48 : "One ring for Elise and one for Silvia"

[Tedehur]

Niels ^


24 hours before deadline, 15 times submitted already. Strong competition within divisions, but the slowest D1 is still faster than the fastest D2. Pretty unusual.
I already posted week 49 so that the 15 racers who submitted already are not left idle too long
A couple of submitted times are just 0.0x faster than mine, but knowing that could be an unfair advantage and I don't want to practice again to beat them, so I'd rather consider my time in the Silvia posted this week-end and my time in the Elise improved yesterday as submitted.

 

[Sjaak]

I don't think it's fair to hack on him for a first infringement...plenty of people have had dirty laps (including myself) so I for one will not be holding any grudges 👍

In your case I for sure had no grudges at all,MisterWeary.
Always submitting clean laps,asked or not asked.👍

But the number of people submitting dirty replays shows the little respect of the rules and to other racers.

CoolGeekz should at least make an apologize for his lack of checking his replay.

 

[Thotozam AZ-1]

^^ I am very sorry, stuff happens I guess

I seriously didn't know until just today. After I made the post, I remembered to check if my lap was ok, I guess not
Maybe I hit the select button a tad too late....

Again very sorry

It will NEVER happen again
If it does...well I have a large shovel in my garage that is quite hard...


I'm done for this week, cya.....

 

[bleurabbit7]

There's no need to go to that level. It was an honest mistake. We don't hate you for it. Just need to be a bit more careful. Chin up mate.

 

[Sphinx]

Niels ^

I guess by this you mean that Neils shouldn't be calling this guy out over such a small matter? Perhaps some say that he is only doing something you should've done.

 

[ferrari_chris]

... A couple of submitted times are just 0.0x faster than mine, but knowing that could be an unfair advantage and I don't want to practice again to beat them, so I'd rather consider my time in the Silvia posted this week-end and my time in the Elise improved yesterday as submitted.

I respect you for that. That's the sort if sportsmanship I like to see. 👍

 

[Tyre King]

Ahh Guys,

Gonna submit tomoz mornin, not really improved much over the last few days, but then again, haven't really ran much over the last few days either, so it makes sense!

Gotta say that I am slightly perturbed by the amount of distrust floating around at the minute.

Lets face it,

If you 'think' or 'know' that your lap is dirty, why would you post a replay?

If you think that your lap is clean, Why wouldn't you?

If you post a replay, you can more-or-less say that at least two guys are gonna check it.

Who in their right mind is gonna post a knowingly dirty replay, given the amount of scorn poured onto anyone doing so?


Neil

 

[TheWizard]

Who in their right mind is gonna post a knowingly dirty replay, given the amount of scorn poured onto anyone doing so?

Good point there, Neil 👍

And point(s) to you for saying so

The Wizard.

 

[Sphinx]

Who in their right mind is gonna post a knowingly dirty replay, given the amount of scorn poured onto anyone doing so?

Neil

I don't see you guys scorning. I just see you accepting this sort of thing when it happens every time, and thus there is no longer any care taken when submitting times because you are essentially allowing it to happen.

 

[Jake]

The way I see it everyone should submit a replay. I have been here for only 3 races so far and have submitted for each one. I just feel if your going to spend all that time shaving off .01's then you should take the time to submit the replay every week. No matter how I look at it there will always be doubt in my mind for those who do not submit. If you have nothing to hide you should be submitting. And you shouldn't really play the "laziness card". Submitting replays shows respect and honesty to all in the WRS, so I will continue to submit even though I get my doors blown in every week! 👍

I also like viewing replays for the learning experience. It's good to see where you lost time so you can take that knowledge with you into the next race...

 

[TheWizard]

I don't see you guys scorning. I just see you accepting this sort of thing when it happens every time, and thus there is no longer any care taken when submitting times because you are essentially allowing it to happen.

It might be allowed to happen, but the people with the illegal replays get disqualified, so I don't really see the problem. If they do it once, by mistake, it's okay. Everybody can make a mistake and everybody should be allowed to make one, without having 10-15-20 people immediately judging him/her and branding him/her as a cheater for the rest of his/her life.

If the same person continues to post dirty replays, then he/she is off the WRS for good. Or keeps getting diqualified, whichever one who's in charge will decide.

I don't really see where the big deal is. We know who the honest racers are. So a couple of people posted an illegal lap, when they first joined. At least they are willing to take the blame for their mistake and to work for not making it happen again. I don't really think somebody would be posting a replay knowing it's dirty and expect to get away with it. The result thread is not even going to be archived until ALL the replays are checked, anyway. So, somebody will check it for sure. If I know my lap is dirty, I don't submit, or I submit a slower, clean time. If I don't know it's dirty and I think it's clean, I do submit and apologize if found dirty. I don't submit a dirty time hoping to cheat the system and hoping the community won't see it. And I also think this logic can apply to other (honest) racers in here.

If there was somebody that was really trying to cheat one of these two things would most likely happen:

1) the person wouldn't be posting replays at all and be smart enough to figure out a way of posting a slow enough time that does not require him/her to post a replay - I think this one is highly unlikely to be pulled off repeatedly by the same person, without him/her being caught

2) the person would post the replays and he/she would have been caught, already

I think all this suspect and calling people cheaters is more aggravating than the fact that there are occasional dirty/illegal times posted.

I just don't see how people would do it on purpose and expect to get away with it.

My two cents.

EDIT: I forgot to say something...

jake73, your idea is good and I kinda agree with it, but I don't think it's only a matter of lazyness. Not everybody here owns/has access to a Max Drive or similar device. And I don't think that owning such device or being able to post replays should be made a requirement in order to join the series.

The Wizard.

 

[Sphinx]

If I don't know it's dirty and I think it's clean, I do submit and apologize if found dirty.

This is where we differ, you should know. If there is any doubt then get a second opinion before submission, or run again, "if in doubt run again". I'm always on call to check someone's replay before submission, I've done loads. I believe the last time it was done here was when Dion had a doubtful replay and he therefore asked Hugo to check it before submission. Dion did the correct thing and also had Hugo to back him up if anyone accused him of being a chancer.

It's what we do in OLR throughout the whole GT community.

Of course this isn't 100% and it's true the odd rare mistake will be made, invisible wall for example, but at least it cuts down a large amount of mistakes that could happen and confirms the integrity of the driver and his submission.

Perhaps the person who submitted the dirty replay thought that by doing so was no "big deal", and totally disregarded the rules by doing so, maybe he thinks the rules are also no "big deal", Perhaps the drivers who don't get the credit they deserve because of a dirty submission is no "big deal" and maybe when you guys run the next BC it will be no "big deal"

 

[KLR142]

maybe when you guys run the next BC it will be no "big deal"

You guys? Who are you guys? It appears you're accusing GTP here... Hopefully that's just my misunderstanding.

I don't appreciate this kind of talk(ALL of this bickering, not just ^^). No need for sarcasm or pokes at anyone's trustworthiness. There's even more replay checking going on that you don't know about that isn't brought forward for everyone to know about.

Seriously.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just had a go at wk 49's race, now it's time to have my final go with this week's girls... Then it'll be submission time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FWIW, I had a fast lap earlier today that I could argue is clean, and I took and saved about 8 pictures to post up before submission time to get confirmation of cleanliness, but in the end I decided to screw it. Screw it.

 

[Thotozam AZ-1]

Perhaps the person who submitted the dirty replay thought that by doing so was no "big deal", and totally disregarded the rules by doing so, maybe he thinks the rules are also no "big deal", Perhaps the drivers who don't get the credit they deserve because of a dirty submission is no "big deal" and maybe when you guys run the next BC it will be no "big deal"

This is where I draw the line.
I tried to ignore all the crap, and get on with driving [cleanly] but:

Cmon, must you keep this going? Get on with your life and stop worrying about mine.
I made a mistake, and I am sorry for it. If you feel like being your prejudice *censor* self, go ahead.
I did not submit a dirty lap on purpose. I thought it was clean, I guess I should have checked a bit closer. I got DQed, with an embarassing red flag next to my name, moved to last on the list, and NielsG got his podium. It's OVER....

If I remember correctly, in week 45, 2 well known WRS'ers got DQed...did they get any flak? No....so why should I for my first mistake? (No offense on the two that were DQed)

I know I screwed up. I know I should try to check better. I don't submit dirty or cheating laps on purpose!

I don't break rules on purpose. Heck, I don't even have a detention to my name...and I'm in 10th grade! 11 years without breaking a rule (including kindergarten, where I got closest to a detention)

Continue if you would like, make this into a flame war if you feel like it, but don't include me.


In other, more on topic news:
I finally beat holl's elise reverse T2 with a 25.068

See Sphinx, use your energy on getting fast laps, instead of putting newbs like me down.

And thank you to Wizard for seeing things the way they should be 👍

 

[TheWizard]

This is where we differ, you should know. If there is any doubt then get a second opinion before submission, or run again, "if in doubt run again". I'm always on call to check someone's replay before submission, I've done loads. I believe the last time it was done here was when Dion had a doubtful replay and he therefore asked Hugo to check it before submission. Dion did the correct thing and also had Hugo to back him up if anyone accused him of being a chancer.

It's what we do in OLR throughout the whole GT community.

I see what you are saying, Sphinx. And I agree entirely. What I was talking about was just an example. I - personally - do not (well, haven't so far) post a replay unless I am 100% sure it's legal. I have had some uncertainties on some laps, in the past, but I have always asked, provided pictures or just run another lap.

What I was saying was just an example on how I see it. We are more like veterans of the WRS and we know how things work. What I was trying to say is that if somebody new makes a mistake when he/she first joins, then I think it's taking it a little overboard to see the reaction that's been going on. And I am not accusing you personally, I don't have "beef" with anybody, here. I just like the discussion, because I think it serves a purpose and it's constructive and maybe it will put things into perspective.

I am not condoning posting dirty laps, I am just saying that people make mistakes. New people are more likely to makes mistakes. And that we should point the mistakes out to them or to whoever makes them, but then we also need to learn to forgive. This is not condoning, it's giving them a second chance. Sure everybody deserves one? And, as I said earlier, if they do make mistakes, they get disqualified - hence the "not a big deal". The issue itself might be a big deal, if it goes on continuously. But I am sure whoever did make those mistakes also learnt from them.

The Wizard.

 

[KLR142]

I see what you are saying, Sphinx. And I agree entirely. What I was talking about was just an example. I - personally - do not (well, haven't so far) post a replay unless I am 100% sure it's legal. I have had some uncertainties on some laps, in the past, but I have always asked, provided pictures or just run another lap.

What I was saying was just an example on how I see it. We are more like veterans of the WRS and we know how things work. What I was trying to say is that if somebody new makes a mistake when he/she first joins, then I think it's taking it a little overboard to see the reaction that's been going on. And I am not accusing you personally, I don't have "beef" with anybody, here. I just like the discussion, because I think it serves a purpose and it's constructive and maybe it will put things into perspective.

I am not condoning posting dirty laps, I am just saying that people make mistakes. New people are more likely to makes mistakes. And that we should point the mistakes out to them or to whoever makes them, but then we also need to learn to forgive. This is not condoning, it's giving them a second chance. Sure everybody deserves one? And, as I said earlier, if they do make mistakes, they get disqualified - hence the "not a big deal". The issue itself might be a big deal, if it goes on continuously. But I am sure whoever did make those mistakes also learnt from them.

The Wizard.

👍 Thank you for having the patience to stick with it and post a response. I feel the same way, I just don't like hearing this brought up. I'm with ya!

 

[Sphinx]

I did not submit a dirty lap on purpose. I thought it was clean,

Mate,
I doubt you even bothered to check the replay. I mean cmon, who's fooling whom here?

Your first method of saying nothing worked better

 

[Sphinx]

Hopefully that's just my misunderstanding.

It is.

 

[KLR142]

It is.

👍

 

[Casio]

I have to argee on both fronts. Sure, he shouldn't of submitted a lap that was obviously dirty. Just because you're new doesn't mean the rules are harder to follow. Yes, he should of checked his lap.

However, it doesn't adversely affect anyone that he was DQ'ed on his lap, except for him. I'm not going to lose any sleep at night because some guy put 3 wheels on the grass instead of 2.

 

[Small_Fryz]

I mostly agree with sphinx on this.

People have to know that submitting dirty laps is unacceptable and its a big deal, no matter how new/old you are. Can someone point me to a time where Minorshunt/Sphinx/Mr P/Hugo Boss/ and other long time racers ever got a DQ? These guys have been racing for a long time and i cant think of a case they ever got a DQ.

It really isnt that hard to check your replays before you submit and as a driver you SHOULD know when you go off track or hit a wall. The rules are their for a reason and people need to take them seriously.

People are indeed "allowed" ( i use this term loosly) 1 chance, but as far as i know i still got my 1 chance in my 2years of OLR. Just because you may have a chance is no reason to play down what happend and/or think that ah its ok i have 1 chance it wont matter if its found dirty.

The other week i had a close call but got a few OLR's to check my replay before i submitted it. And then as soon as i did i alerted everyone of the "potential" hit and said i belive it is clean as well as my 2nd opinion. I did not try to "hide" the fact i thought it was clean, nor did I think it was dirty.

I think people need to take more care and double check their replays and take the rules a little more seriously, they are there for a reason. If it is a close call get a 2nd opinion, if you both think its clean submit it, but point it out straight away that its a close call.

bottom line...

Submitting dirty laps is unacceptable!! and should not be taken lightly.

Accidents can happen and a oversights are possible, but it should be so rare that it shouldnt happen. Racers who race in hundreds of competitions and do literally thousands of laps are bound to slip up once.

 

[holl01]

to be honest, i dont care. if u submit a lap thats deemed dirty, then u have made a mistake/bad judgement call. accept the descision, learn from the DQ experience, and obviously make sure u analyze the replay more closely in future, i dont agree with sphinx, or small fryz at all about the 'big deal" concept, it really isnt, its simply a mistake made by an inexperienced driver in division 3, who has just started. give him some leeway. the fine line between what is dirty and what is clean is more clear cut to more experienced drivers, to some others, maybe not.

 

[Casio]

Time submitted 👍

Going for top 3 after my awful display last week (2nd last)...

 

[MisterWeary]

Long rant that I deleted because it was unnecessary, let's just race 👍

 

[Small_Fryz]

BTW im not directing this just at CoolGeekz, But everyone who has a "its only a DQ it doesnt matter" attitude.

WRS is one of the most official racing series around and people shouldnt take a DQ lightly, its gonna happen but try your best not to let it happen.

Lets try our best to submit clean laps 👍 and always make sure you double check your replays 👍

 

[Mr P]

Morning all!

Nearly missed the show then

 

[MisterWeary]

More ranting...not worth it...blah...blah...blah...I like cars..........

 

[shockwaveracing]

edited upon request, so go and have a beer chumps... (and my judgement of the narrow minded chump monkey has been diminished somehwat extensively since this debate started)

So anyway...let's all have a beer and get back to racing

am enjoying a couple of brews as we speak...

 

[Sphinx]

Unedited by Sphinx.

 

[fasj6418]

about the replays... lets really think what a normal person would say:

"oh, the lap is not valid... sorry son, what´s your second best time then?"

c´mon, this is a bit too much. i really respect the rules but i will not lose my sleep or something like that because a driver had 3 wheels on dirt... that does not make him slower, dirtier, a bad person or something like it... i really don´t care...

ask anybody outside of the videogame world what they would think of this... they would probably say to you that this is "nerd talk". and it really is, i don´t see whatelse can be...

everybody wants to play by the rules, we want to see clean laps, we want to be fair. if you want that, like small fryz and many others want, that´s right. that´s what i want also. but if you´re nuts about this, and if you think the person should be banned, shot or whatever because of a misjudgment, then you really need to get a life. (IMO). i think this is just the second time here at gtplanet that i post an angry replay, but sometimes things just makes me mad...

we know each other quite well here, and the best thing about this comunity, is that we have a friendly enviroment... no strange to me, those cheap shots came from drivers that are not regularly here... too bad this kind of talk is happening, but in the end, the rage goes on... and so is the friendship...

and while we are still in this topic, i´m still waiting to submit because i asked a friend to verify my lap... because of a possible 5 cm off. well i didn´t spot anything in photo mode, so i´m waiting to see what my buddy thinks...

IF ANYONE CAN ALSO VERIFY MY LAP (NTSC) BEFORE THE DEADLINE, PLEASE PM ME WITH YOUR E-MAIL:tup: 👍 👍
i trully apreciate that.