GT5 Latest News & Discussion

[RACECAR]

That would make sense, yeah. Couldn't think of why else they would do it, and I wouldn't think they would try to do actual multiplayer over 3G. Seems like it would turn into a complete mess.

Now I have no idea how 3G works so I'm curious if that would work better then Ad-Hoc. I never understood and still don't comprehend how that works.

 

[Griffith500]

Since you ignored the fact that the former downhill section at Mulsanne was still not a jump, the car did not come off the ground for reasons avens implied and thus was still not relevant to the discussion in the slightest, I'll respond with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3VLkAK5CsI

Look at that jump he hit!

That's clearly not the same thing. As with Anthony Davidson's Toyota. The fact, which you're now "ignoring", still stands, the CLR wouldn't have flipped on level ground (unless, maybe, if it went sideways / backwards like that NASCAR car.)

The "jump" at Le Mans I was referring to hasn't been there for some time, I don't know when they planed the hill flat at the right-hand bend before the Mulsanne corner (i.e. where the exit to the second chicane is today), but certainly in the mid-60s they had to slow down for it lest they take off into the trees.

So can we move on now, since we obviously aren't getting anywhere with this?

You mean can we move on so you don't have to admit you were wrong about jumps being unrealistic?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Now I have no idea how 3G works so I'm curious if that would work better then Ad-Hoc. I never understood and still don't comprehend how that works.

I am pretty sure 3G is wireless mobile network just like what mobile phones used for internet access, so basically Vita can stay online as long as there are wireless 3G mobile phone radio signal. Ad Hoc is Wifi radio connection type, which is very limited in range, but it does make internet accessible if one the device within the Ad Hoc have internet access. Hope that makes sense.

 

[avens]

toronado still doesn't believe that jump existed? it's iconic

 

[Samus]

toronado still doesn't believe that jump existed? it's iconic

It wasn't a jump. If it was, why didn't every car take off on every lap, as the CLR did?

Neither was the rise that the Porsche GT1 took off from on in 1998, it was a result of bad aero travelling in the wake of another car. Unless you're going to suggest there is a jump on the back straight of Road Atlanta as well.

 

[avens]

because they lifted off

 

[Tornado]

That's clearly not the same thing.

I'm well aware of that. But neither is the CLR flying through the air like the airplane wing it was shaped as the same thing to a car jumping at Cape Ring, because the unifying factor is that those cars came off the ground that violently because of sudden changes in aerodynamics. Not the track surface.

The fact, which you're now "ignoring", still stands, the CLR wouldn't have flipped on level ground

This is the Porsche flipping at the Petit Le Mans the year prior:



You can't tell me that that rise there is enough that the wheels on the Porsche would have even come off the ground had the aerodynamics taken hold and thrown it straight up. They bulldozed that hill that was on Mulsanne, either in 2001 or 2002, and there's still enough of an elevation change that if the current closed cockpit cars were designed the same way they were in the late 90s that the same thing could easily happen if they were trailing behind another car.



It is not the same thing as what happens at Cape Ring.

Now I have no idea how 3G works so I'm curious if that would work better then Ad-Hoc. I never understood and still don't comprehend how that works.

3G uses cell phone towers and whatnot to do broadband internet. The Vita 3G can connect directly to them through certain carriers (AT&T in the U.S.) like a smart phone. There would be inherent issues with latency and reliability of the connection that I'm not sure how PD (or any developer) would be able to work around to make 3G a sufficient platform for it. At least not for games of that type.


Ad-Hoc, on the other hand, is two PSPs (or Vitas, or DSs, or whatever) connecting to each other directly with no internet between them, so the only lag is whatever happens between the two systems. Technically, even a pair of Game Boys connected with a link cable was an Ad-Hoc connection.

 

[Samus]

because they lifted off

Yeah you're right, that Toyota was barely moving as it went over the crest.

 

[Tornado]

because they lifted off

No they didn't.



He went over the exact same crest that the Mercedes flipped twice on and he didn't get off the throttle at all.

 

[avens]

onboard lemans 1999 video when talking about the 50s layout

 

[Samus]

Given the weight of 1950s cars, lower speed and lack of anything that you would consider downforce I find it highly unlikely that they would lift off.

Plus that still doesn't change the fact that if a car hits the Cape Ring jump at the same speed that Toyota was going it would have flown several feet from the ground, not just crested it like the real car did. So it's not the same at all.

 

[Tornado]

onboard lemans 1999 video when talking about the 50s layout

I don't think they raced this:

I've seen this

As I said, the jump is not far off from reality. Physics are.

In the 1950s. Which is kind of crucial, because the entire point of this discussion is whether violent aerodynamic-based lift shown in the example you brought up is the same thing as an outright jump.

 

[Griffith500]

toronado still doesn't believe that jump existed? it's iconic

I don't think we're talking about the same thing, personally. The CLR wouldn't have flipped if its front diffuser was longer; i.e. the gradient of the road exposed the venturi and stopped it from generating downforce. At which point the car (on the very crest of that small hill) was suddenly generating much more downforce at the rear than the front, which pitched the car nose-upwards just enough to cause lots of low pressure on the nose of the car (with a higher angle of attack caused by being on the upslope of a hill), which caused yet more upward pitching until the free stream could get under the car and cause lots of high pressure on the flat underside, and cause it to flip.

The "jump" I'm talking about doesn't exist any more, either because of reliable downforce and chicanes, or because the hill at the exit of the second chicane is smoother now.

I'm well aware of that. But neither is the CLR flying through the air like the airplane wing it was shaped as the same thing to a car jumping at Cape Ring, because the unifying factor is that those cars came off the ground that violently because of sudden changes in aerodynamics. Not the track surface.

Except the violent change in the aerodynamics was caused by the track surface changing height, causing the ride-height to increase... see above.

This is the Porsche flipping at the Petit Le Mans the year prior:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8XxQkXCmsU

You can't tell me that that rise there is enough that the wheels on the Porsche would have even come off the ground had the aerodynamics taken hold and thrown it straight up. They bulldozed that hill that was on Mulsanne, either in 2001 or 2002, and there's still enough of an elevation change that if the current closed cockpit cars were designed the same way they were in the late 90s that the same thing could easily happen if they were trailing behind another car.

It doesn't have to lift the wheels off, no, it's the ride height that matters with ground effect - sudden peaks in the surface (or even just oscillations in the suspension, or a combination of the two) can cause enough increase to seriously diminish the downforce produced. Again, this is why the Nordschleife was bulldozed.

It is not the same thing as what happens at Cape Ring.

I never said it was. Remember we were talking about the jump at Cape Ring being "unrealistic". The only thing unrealistic about it is that there is currently no way to make a driver pay for over-doing it.

 

[Tornado]

Except the violent change in the aerodynamics was caused by the track surface changing height, causing the ride-height to increase... see above.

Which does not make it a jump. The aerodynamics of those late-90s cars were so unstable that they would regularly rip body parts off of themselves at speed because the people making them weren't even sure about what the forces acting on the cars would do. All it took for things to go wrong on them while running full tilt was them to be traveling in someone's wake and raising the nose up. In theory all it would take was a curb and the same thing that happened in the two best known examples could happen to the more extremely designed cars (CLR, R8C).




Which... you don't seem to actually be disagreeing with now that I typed this out...

 

[Griffith500]

Which does not make it a jump. The aerodynamics of those late-90s cars were so unstable that they would regularly rip body parts off of themselves at speed because the people making them weren't even sure about what the forces acting on the cars would do. All it took for things to go wrong on them while running full tilt was them to be traveling in someone's wake and raising the nose up. In theory all it would take was a curb and the same thing that happened in the two best known examples could happen to the more extremely designed cars (CLR, R8C).




Which... you don't seem to actually be disagreeing with now that I typed this out...

No, the CLR didn't quite "jump" (although it might have done with stiffer suspension) - I was, perhaps confusingly, talking about a different part of the circuit.

What will happen if F1, as the teams and drivers seem to wish, goes back to ground effect? Will Spa be mauled or taken off the calendar for being unsafe?

 

[PAPPACLART]

Jeez where on earth do you guys get the energy to argue about something so nonsensical.

So News page has KY talking about GT6, but nothing solid again, with everything he did say open to more speculation. I think KY sees all of the bickering on here and does what he does for the LOL's.

 

[Samus]

I don't think we're talking about the same thing, personally. The CLR wouldn't have flipped if its front diffuser was longer; i.e. the gradient of the road exposed the venturi and stopped it from generating downforce. At which point the car (on the very crest of that small hill) was suddenly generating much more downforce at the rear than the front, which pitched the car nose-upwards just enough to cause lots of low pressure on the nose of the car (with a higher angle of attack caused by being on the upslope of a hill), which caused yet more upward pitching until the free stream could get under the car and cause lots of high pressure on the flat underside, and cause it to flip.

The "jump" I'm talking about doesn't exist any more, either because of reliable downforce and chicanes, or because the hill at the exit of the second chicane is smoother now.


Except the violent change in the aerodynamics was caused by the track surface changing height, causing the ride-height to increase...


I never said it was. Remember we were talking about the jump at Cape Ring being "unrealistic". The only thing unrealistic about it is that there is currently no way to make a driver pay for over-doing it.

Since you nor anyone else has provided a real life circuit with a jump comparable to Cape Ring then yes, I maintain it's unrealistic.

 

[gamerdog6482]

And? There isn't a real life circuit as long an oval as SSRX but that's realistic.

 

[Samus]

And? There isn't a real life circuit as long an oval as SSRX but that's realistic.

Indeed, Cape Ring isn't though. What is your point?

 

[gamerdog6482]

You are saying (in your latest post) that Cape Ring isn't realistic because nothing comparable to Cape Ring exists in the real world. I'm saying this also applies to SSRX, but you are saying that IS realistic.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

But I never said it wasn't about racing.
Spouting the marketing gumph at me doesn't change what I've seen and done in the game.

I give up. Maybe we has different interpretations on what "about" and "soley" is. One other reason I personally think GT is about racing is because you won't get far in any GT game without doing it. It's the gateway to a lot of other things you can do. But some may look at and focus on different parts and features of the game and say otherwise.

 

[Samus]

You are saying (in your latest post) that Cape Ring isn't realistic because nothing comparable to Cape Ring exists in the real world. I'm saying this also applies to SSRX, but you are saying that IS realistic.

Because common sense says given the space someone could build something like SSRX, there is nothing physically unrealistic about it except the size but nobody would ever build a race track with a huge jump like Cape Ring.

 

[another_jakhole]

Muoniaolijalk and SimonK. Jus comical.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Because common sense says given the space someone could build something like SSRX but nobody would ever build a race track with a huge jump like Cape Ring.

Now you are saying that someone could build SSRX but wouldn't build Cape Ring? Those are two different things, I COULD build Cape Ring.

 

[Downhill Dino]

You might not be permitted though as it can be a really large safety concern.

 

[Samus]

Muoniaolijalk and SimonK. Jus comical.

Your contribution is helpful and informative as usual.👎

 

[another_jakhole]

You might not be permitted though as it can be a really large safety concern.

\/\/\/

Now you are saying that someone could build SSRX but wouldn't build Cape Ring? Those are two different things, I COULD build Cape Ring.

👍 And this is a fine example of playing by "their" rules. A lot of their arguments and reasoning are this asinine.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Ha, but I'm good at that.

 

[Samus]

Now you are saying that someone could build SSRX but wouldn't build Cape Ring? Those are two different things, I COULD build Cape Ring.

You could yes, nobody would want to race on it though.

 

[Downhill Dino]

\/\/\/