GT5 Latest News & Discussion

[Bandit6]

Well, GT5 is now officially delayed until Spring 2011 for Japan, and the latest rumors are that it will be the first and last full Gran Turismo on the PS3 platform. Thanfully though, Prologue will be getting updated with a few new cars and a new track (Tokyo R246), and we may well see a brand new demo before the holiday season. Damage has been confirmed as full for race cars, scratchy/scuffy for production cars, there will be a full day/night cycle (compressible to your own timeframe) and weather to simulate the weather at the real track or where you live. Proof inside the spoiler:

Spoiler

Only joking, now go and do some reading you lazy bum!

I want to slap you right now.

 

[TokyoDrift]

And your point being??

Read the original post I quoted, read my reply, then read the spoiler text. Now you either*:

- Fully understood the context, and posted that to try and look clever
- Didn't read my post properly at all
- Need a humour transplant

* Delete as appropriate.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Maths. Explain it.

40 people take 6months (0.5 years) to make 1 car

that's 2 cars per year

it's estimated that there are (very roughly) 200 peeps at pd

200 / 40 = 5 times the capacity

therefore 200 people would produce 5 cars in 6 months or 10 cars per year

there are supposed to be 1000 cars in the full game

1000/10cars per year =100 years work for 200 pd employees

 

[TokyoDrift]

40 people take 6months (0.5 years) to make 1 car

Surely that 6 months is calculated in terms of total man hours?! I can (just about, barely) accept that to produce a car model that detailed would take one person 1000 hours. Spread that workload over a team of 40 and the actual time taken to produce one car will be significantly less than 6 months - more like a week or two. That's still a HUGE amount of effort if there are 1000 cars though! Even at 50 cars a year, that's 20 years worth of cumulative development for 40 people, which leads me to believe that in reality, it takes them nowhere near 1000 man hours per car.

 

[6ix]

Read the original post I quoted, read my reply, then read the spoiler text. Now you either*:

- Fully understood the context, and posted that to try and look clever
- Didn't read my post properly at all
- Need a humour transplant

* Delete as appropriate.

Yes. And your point still being?

Instead of telling him/her to go read, you could just have told him/her what's new regardign GT5 (nothing, actually) 👍

 

[Dan_]

... In a darkened room a thin red beam of light shot from the box across the up on the rack Corvette, and relayed data through a three-quarter inch data cable snaking from the back of the black box on a tripod. Art and son Craig Morrison were both amazed.

After the bottom half of the car was scanned in the rack was dropped and the interior transferred into binary for a complete 3-D model.

Laser scanning? For car modeling?

This leads me on to:

After the cars are scanned out, PD obtain a high detailed poly model of that given car, in my limited understanding, I can say for sure: These models will be used in many and many forthcoming GT's. They must use an simplified version of the models for the game, without many details as the scanned model, but detailed enough to give a good impression of photorealism.

I'm sure they will just update textures and add more details to the cars in the game using the pre-scanned models, this is just awesome!

Also, this explains why, japanese and currently in production models have priority, they're easier, cheaper and faster to scan and model, because they need to scan the actual car, and not only base themselves on photographs and manufacturer data.

 

[TokyoDrift]

Yes. And your point still being?

Instead of telling him/her to go read, you could just have told him/her what's new regardign GT5 (nothing, actually) 👍

Quite clearly I was having a bit of fun when they asked somebody to sumarise the latest news for them. If you cannot comprehend that, or find it totally unnecessary even, you made your point clear the first time without needing to repeat yourself.

In all honesty, I see less point in the direction you took things with your repetitive responses than what I did originally.

 

[CerealKiller]

I'm not much on 3d modelling but couldn't a large chunk of that 6 months be some kind of rendering time, not necessarily man hours? In which case many cars could be done in parallel on a big pile of hardware.

Reading the quote though I'd wager it's just an approximation, it may take 6 months from the time the process starts to when the car is completely finished by it could be a batch of 100 cars being done in those 6 months, it just takes time to bounce it around the various teams for each stage of the development.

 

[TokyoDrift]

I'm not much on 3d modelling but couldn't a large chunk of that 6 months be some kind of rendering time, not necessarily man hours? In which case many cars could be done in parallel on a big pile of hardware.

Reading the quote though I'd wager it's just an approximation, it may take 6 months from the time the process starts to when the car is completely finished by it could be a batch of 100 cars being done in those 6 months, it just takes time to bounce it around the various teams for each stage of the development.

Yep, I'd say that's a fair assumption. It's quite clear that it doesn't take 1000 man hours per car, requiring 100% of an individuals time. The game would never get done with the number of cars being touted.

 

[deep_sky]

it's estimated that there are (very roughly) 200 peeps at pd

There are actually 140. Which is still large, mind 👍

 

[Perkel]

40 people take 6months (0.5 years) to make 1 car

that's 2 cars per year

it's estimated that there are (very roughly) 200 peeps at pd

200 / 40 = 5 times the capacity

therefore 200 people would produce 5 cars in 6 months or 10 cars per year

there are supposed to be 1000 cars in the full game

1000/10cars per year =100 years work for 200 pd employees

nope...

rather:

gettin license for car
getting car 1day-2 months depending on car
testing IRL how car handles/dyno etc.
modeling few weeks by one person,
getting sound right few days to few weeks depending on car
physic,gameplay etc. week or more.
s*it&things

sometimes car modeling could be delayed for various reasons.

It's not just sit and do your job, you must consider going on to another country because someone is ass and don't want to give you car even on one day...

Some cars could be done in week but some like mclaren shold take a lot of time..

same with tracks..

 

[analog]

Also, this explains why, japanese and currently in production models have priority, they're easier, cheaper and faster to scan and model, because they need to scan the actual car, and not only base themselves on photographs and manufacturer data.

Aren't they also using different methods, seeing all those scale models and plastic kits in their office photo's?
Are they just for reference or do they also scan those and apply some realism afterwards?
That Art Morrison Corvette was clearly a one-off and there weren't any scale models available just like those brand new cars.
Just asking as i'm not very technical, but do they use real-life cars only for all their models?

 

[eSZee]

That was interesting. I was a little suprised it took 40 people to have the one car done in six months, ouch. Makes me wonder how many PD employee's there are.

I don't think anyone ever said that. It was just misunderstood.

 

[alucard0712]

I think one man - one car in 6 month.It can't be so long.

 

[Griffith500]

Laser scanning? For car modeling?

This leads me on to:

After the cars are scanned out, PD obtain a high detailed poly model of that given car, in my limited understanding, I can say for sure: These models will be used in many and many forthcoming GT's. They must use an simplified version of the models for the game, without many details as the scanned model, but detailed enough to give a good impression of photorealism.

I'm sure they will just update textures and add more details to the cars in the game using the pre-scanned models, this is just awesome!

Also, this explains why, japanese and currently in production models have priority, they're easier, cheaper and faster to scan and model, because they need to scan the actual car, and not only base themselves on photographs and manufacturer data.

Yeah, you're pretty much spot on - except that laser scanning typically results in a point cloud, rather than actual polygons. There are many ways to turn point clouds into polygonal models, and it seems PD do it "on the fly" if they were able to show it deconstructed so quickly!

How long these scans will last (into the series) will depend upon how finely the point cloud is resolved, i.e. the "spatial" resolution they used for scanning. Chances are, they won't need to do it again unless the way we model things in games changes significantly... [one thing I foresee is the abandonment of textures as we know them, moving to a more pixel-shader-esque oriented approach, where every point on the car (or environment) can have different properties based on real materials - much like the car's paint and light-clusters are already handled.]

It's also worth mentioning that many of the "plastic" (most decent ones are metal...) models, especially the ones that come out of Japan, are actually incredibly accurate. A laser scan of a model will be sufficient for a starting point, then photos of the real thing can be used to touch up where the model falls short - a bit like what was occuring with that Ferrari 330 in one of the shots we saw.

 

[wajdi1977]

Another false video!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOErm4RIOak

 

[analog]

Thanks for mentioning it's false, hope Kaz is watching this too for inspiration.

 

[Skidmark]

Another false video!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOErm4RIOak

Is it definitely false? The way its in time with the gearchanges is uncanny.

I wish it did sound like that though!

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Yep, I'd say that's a fair assumption. It's quite clear that it doesn't take 1000 man hours per car, requiring 100% of an individuals time. The game would never get done with the number of cars being touted.

I'm pretty sure what they were talking about was the workflow pipeline. The model will be split into sub-tasks and different people assigned to these so each guy will be working on a small part of anything from 50-100 cars at any time. So in essence they're saying that putting a new car on the line it will take 6 months to get done, the actual work involved is probably significantly less than a day per guy.

 

[fordcapri]

http://translate.google.com/transla...an-turismo.com/jp/news/d9196.html&sl=ja&tl=en

Megaweb festa with a special gt5 edition ft86, nothing new i think

 

[Griffith500]

Is it definitely false? The way its in time with the gearchanges is uncanny.

I wish it did sound like that though!

It's good, but it's not that good - the way the engine revs up when it should be approximately constant (before braking into the old hairpin), or that it rises too slowly (the short straight after the first corner complex) etc.

They ought to have taken a lap of Fuji and faffed that to fit. Personally, I think the sound is still lacking; it'd sound nothing like that actually being in the car - our ears don't work the same way a video-camera microphone does


And well done to P3nT4gR4m for actually employing some sense! 👍 (EDIT: I don't mean "for once", only that others seem to have failed )

I reckon that "special version" will be the Toyota demo we've already seen...

 

[6ix]

Quite clearly I was having a bit of fun when they asked somebody to sumarise the latest news for them. If you cannot comprehend that, or find it totally unnecessary even, you made your point clear the first time without needing to repeat yourself.

If you want to pretend you didn't expect a reaction to your first response to me, you are either lying or naive.

In all honesty, I see less point in the direction you took things with your repetitive responses than what I did originally.

Pot >> kettle

 

[PaMu1337]

Another false video!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOErm4RIOak

Notice how the cockpit shadows are way better than prologue (still not perfect, but it's hardly noticeable now)

 

[wajdi1977]

Notice how the cockpit shadows are way better than prologue (still not perfect, but it's hardly noticeable now)

Yeb but for me the engine sound is more and more importante and involving than the cockpit shadows,I mean that I care about sound improvement than shadows one!!

 

[alucard0712]

Shadows "quality" depended on car.Actual angle of the shadows casting.Take Ford LM - terrible shadows, and Subaru - perfect.I give you 100% that shadows are not improved.Just lucky cockpit.Again in TT demo they are terrible.

 

[analog]

Yeb but for me the engine sound is more and more importante and involving than the cockpit shadows,I mean that I care about sound improvement than shadows one!!

Er...as those engine sounds are knowingly false the only decent commentary on these clips you provided and told were false are the ones about all the aspects not relating to sound.

 

[m00ndancer]

Latest from mimaximax: Viper ACR
Deleted due to double posting

 

[Coiler]

posted yesturday

 

[Metfanant]

Latest from mimaximax: Viper ACR

at least they got the performance right as it gobbled up the Vette, the two Benzes and Ferrari under braking...even when going off line to make the passes

 

[Dan_]

Hmmm, Volkswagen Rabbit?

I think I got it, seems like a cad data model, however there are only vertexes. Some rendering algorithm should be used to draw the polygons based on the vertexes.

It's impressive, as analog stated it's impossible to reproduce the minor details of that car, but you still have a tool to model the proportions and body shape accurately, also, I'm biased to believe that PD models are far more impressive than the "VW Rabbit" that Griffith just posted, perhaps they can actually display almost all the surface of the car's body just using vertexes, regarding PD level of crazy perfectionism, I think that's possible.