GT5 looks better than this GT6 Demo

[JohnScoonsBeard]

When people talk about their problems with graphical fidelity it is pretty meaningless unless they state what their setup is.

E.G.

Screen res
PS3 output res
PS3 xmb game setting for smoothing on/off
GT6 graphic setting: Flicker reduction/sharp? (Not sure of the settings names)
PS3 type
Free disk space

Are there any more settings that could impact?

I have
A 40 inch Bravia running at 1080p no smoothing running
PS3 output res: 1080p
Xmb game setting for smoothing: on
GT6 graphic setting: Whatever the default is
PS3: Slim
50gb Free of 360gb available disk space

Frame rate good even in cockpit mode.
Smooth graphics with a few distracting flickers here or there
Improved graphics over gt5 which was still good on my setup. Never had much screen tearing in gt5 but certainly none in gt6.

 

[MockngBrd]

too many variables in real life

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

When people talk about their problems with graphical fidelity it is pretty meaningless unless they state what their setup is.

E.G.

Screen res
PS3 output res
PS3 xmb game setting for smoothing on/off
GT6 graphic setting: Flicker reduction/sharp? (Not sure of the settings names)
PS3 type
Free disk space

Are there any more settings that could impact?

I have
A 40 inch Bravia running at 1080p no smoothing running
PS3 output res: 1080p
Xmb game setting for smoothing: on
GT6 graphic setting: Whatever the default is
PS3: Slim
50gb Free of 360gb available disk space

Frame rate good even in cockpit mode.
Smooth graphics with a few distracting flickers here or there
Improved graphics over gt5 which was still good on my setup. Never had much screen tearing in gt5 but certainly none in gt6.

Good idea :

My setup :

PS3 Slim 160GB - brand new only a couple of weeks with over 400GB free space - HDD replaced with Seagate 500GB 7200 RPM. PS3 output set at 1080p, RGB Full range enabled - Deep Color set at Auto. Sound set at 5.1 DTS.

Samsung Full HD LCD 32" tv ( 60 Hz mode ) - using movie mode, sharpness at 0, NO picture enhancement whatsoever, professionally calibrated for movie viewing, warm 2, just scan setting ( 1 to 1 no upscale by TV ). Deep color enabled. Setting for game is aimed at providing true output from the PS3 with no post processing by the TV ( as is )

GT6 - display set at flicker reduction, sound 5.1 DTS with large theatre.

GT6 runs fine, no noticeable frame drops, no tearing at all, mainly driving in cockpit view. If there's a spike in frame rate - dropping, I would have noticed it visually and affected my driving as I am strictly drive in the demo with no assists - including no ABS using stick. A drop in frames during corner entry or hard braking would likely mess up my driving

Graphics looks fine, no jaggies on cars even on chase cams like some says - might be due to TV settings ( I have no enhancement, sharpness or any post processing ) The paint on cars looks great - realistic - better than GT5, also might have to do with my tv calibration for natural life like color.

 

[Nikked]

too many variables in real life

I think GT6 represents that colour amazingly 👍

 

[steve30x]

When people talk about their problems with graphical fidelity it is pretty meaningless unless they state what their setup is.

E.G.

Screen res
PS3 output res
PS3 xmb game setting for smoothing on/off
GT6 graphic setting: Flicker reduction/sharp? (Not sure of the settings names)
PS3 type
Free disk space

I use a 24" IIYAma gaming 1920 x 1080 1MS monitor
PS3 set to 1080P
PS3 xmb game setting for smoothing on/off - this doesnt apply to PS3 games
GT6 graphic setting: Flicker reduction/sharp - These settings dont work on HD TV's or high res monitors. Ive tried both and see no difference even with them off
Ps3 Slim 250GB
90% disk space free

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I use a 24" IIYAma gaming 1920 x 1080 1MS monitor
PS3 set to 1080P
PS3 xmb game setting for smoothing on/off - this doesnt apply to PS3 games
GT6 graphic setting: Flicker reduction/sharp - These settings dont work on HD TV's or high res monitors. Ive tried both and see no difference even with them off
Ps3 Slim 250GB
90% disk space free

How did the demo goes ?

 

[steve30x]

SMooth as silk. I didnt see any frame rate problems

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

SMooth as silk. I didnt see any frame rate problems

Thanks, that's good to hear, a handful people here said otherwise and sees jaggies, not sure what's wrong at first, but from my own experience and some others like you who have said no issue with frame rate, I guess it might be PS3 dependent or TV ( setting ) ?

 

[Samus]

I hope Digital Foundry do a framerate analysis soon because the stutters and frame drops are definitely there.

Did you not even notice it when you crossed the line and your time was submitted to the leaderboards?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I hope Digital Foundry do a framerate analysis soon because the stutters and frame drops are definitely there.

Did you not even notice it when you crossed the line and your time was submitted to the leaderboards?

No frame rate drop/stutters when crossing the line, but there's a moment when uploading the time to the boards - this is not due to GT6 rendering engine, but my internet connection may have hiccups . I did offline run once - I disconnected my LAN cable when on track, no stutters at all.

 

[Bigbazz]

If you want to see FPS drops go to one of the academy events, set a time. Then play again and let your ghost pass you, enjoy.

The problem here with people having big issues with FPS/Jaggies may be that we are PC gamers. I run my PS3 through my PC monitor, so I'm sitting at most 2-3ft away from the screen. In my PC games I'm getting upwards of 60fps meaning for the most part flawlessly smooth gameplay (it is possible for the counter to show 60fps and the game not appear fluidly smooth, iRacing in particular was like this) aswell as no aliasing at all, perfectly sharp even with your face right next to it.

So when I move to GT6 on my PS3 (I haven't played it in months) and see these jaggies and FPS drops it is glaringly obvious and distracting to me. I find myself thinking why oh why couldn't they have just announced it for the PS4 and done it justice because to me it feels like it is majorly struggling on the PS3.

 

[Samus]

It's nothing to do with your internet, it happens to everyone. Obviously it won't happen offline because you're not submitting a time to the servers.

Elsewhere though it's still not a solid 60fps and it's got nothing to do with the PS3 or TV.

 

[TheEnd35000vr]

Did you not even notice it when you crossed the line and your time was submitted to the leaderboards?

No frame rate drop/stutters when crossing the line, but there's a moment when uploading the time to the boards.

This is the only issue I've been having. By no means do I have a slow connection speed (or rather a speed at which I generally never have lag at), but whenever I posted a new fastest lap, there would be a massive lag spike for about half a second, then causing me to go skidding off the road at the first turn at Silverstone, invalidating the next lap. Annoying to say the least.

Also, I was running GT6 at 1080p. Other than the aforementioned issue it appeared much smoother, especially shadows. Still glitchy, but a lot less notable now, to me.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

If you want to see FPS drops go to one of the academy events, set a time. Then play again and let your ghost pass you, enjoy.

The problem here with people having big issues with FPS/Jaggies may be that we are PC gamers. I run my PS3 through my PC monitor, so I'm sitting at most 2-3ft away from the screen. In my PC games I'm getting upwards of 60fps meaning for the most part flawlessly smooth gameplay (it is possible for the counter to show 60fps and the game not appear fluidly smooth, iRacing in particular was like this) aswell as no aliasing at all, perfectly sharp even with your face right next to it.

So when I move to GT6 on my PS3 (I haven't played it in months) and see these jaggies and FPS drops it is glaringly obvious and distracting to me. I find myself thinking why oh why couldn't they have just announced it for the PS4 and done it justice because to me it feels like it is majorly struggling on the PS3.

I drive with the ghost on, mostly on the GTR TT, I don't see any drop of frames Jaggies on the car is not visible as I posted earlier - I set my TV for movie calibration, no picture enhancements, no sharpness (set at 0) and just scan.

 

[Samus]

Jaggies may be down to picture settings on your TV but framerate drops are not. I find it hard to believe you've somehow got a different copy of the demo without any drops, you're just not seeing them.

 

[NCRthree]

Yeah, I'm concerned about the cockpit framies. I've driven thousands of miles offline in GT5 with a completely steady frame. It occurs nearly each time I get near an AI in the Demo. Very noticeable and distracting. Having a nice steady framerate is one of the main reasons I like cockpit cam so much in GT5.

 

[Bigbazz]

I drive with the ghost on, mostly on the GTR TT, I don't see any drop of frames Jaggies on the car is not visible as I posted earlier - I set my TV for movie calibration, no picture enhancements, no sharpness (set at 0) and just scan.

This isn't a TV issue though, there are countless videos and even many pictures in this thread showing the jaggies, if you're saying you're not seeing the jaggies it is because

1. You're sitting far enough away from the screen that you notice them less

2. You're perhaps more accustomed to playing console games, where as I am more used to playing PC games where the graphics run higher resolutions with better quality AA, so when I go back to the console I notice it more as a result.


To deny the jaggies exist though is to be oblivious. As for the FPS, I can't know what other people experience but FPS drops is definitely what I'm experiencing.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I hope Digital Foundry do a framerate analysis soon because the stutters and frame drops are definitely there.

Did you not even notice it when you crossed the line and your time was submitted to the leaderboards?

I read that about crossing the line and the leaderboard update and was expecting the worst, but I never had any framerate drops due to that or anything else. I run with ghost off too and always have.

As far as the jaggies go, I never noticed but then I don't look for that stuff. I'll check next time I'm on.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

This isn't a TV issue though, there are countless videos and even many pictures in this thread showing the jaggies, if you're saying you're not seeing the jaggies it is because

1. You're sitting far enough away from the screen that you notice them less

2. You're perhaps more accustomed to playing console games, where as I am more used to playing PC games where the graphics run higher resolutions with better quality AA, so when I go back to the console I notice it more as a result.


To deny the jaggies exist though is to be oblivious. As for the FPS, I can't know what other people experience but FPS drops is definitely what I'm experiencing.

My tv is 32", I sit around 6/7 feet away.
I calibrated my TV for movie - watching Bluray at 1080P, I never set sharpness higher than 0 or use any picture enhancements.

I also play PC games - been playing since the day of DOS games - Prince of Persia - still plays NASCAR 2003 from time to time.

I know console games do not have AA like PC games can do, but I don't see GT6 as having jaggies so bad that it's worth complaining for. The frame rate drop issue is confusing for me, I see frame rate drops in GT5 when driving alone at London, the demo does not have that.

 

[ANFD]

Fundamentally, you can't compare a fully released game to a demo. I've never seen a demo that held up to the final product in any genre.

The handling physics are a delight. Even a small improvement makes a big difference. I can actually "feel" the weight of the car now. I know that's subjective, but this is a personal observation. It will be interesting to see how much less body roll there is after stiffening the suspension. The tire model seems to have been improved a bit also. Again, even a small difference has a large effect to realism.

The sound is very much improved. My biggest gripe about GT5 is that I can't hear my own engine (hard to determine shift points) when other cars are anywhere close to me. This varies with specific cars of course but with the GT6 demo I only hear the other cars when they are very close to me. I've refined all my audio settings to minimize the effect in GT5 and I'm comparing the sound with the same settings.

The load times are very much improved and the leader board updates 10 times faster than it ever did in GT5.

These points in themselves are enough to make me buy the game. My demo runs without any framerate drops on a 60 inch Samsung LED in 1080p. I still don't think it fair to quantify and qualify deficiencies in a game, when we haven't seen the game yet.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Unknown operator failure. Disregard.

 

[Morgoth_666]

I generally have no trouble noticing framerate drops, but didn't see anything beyond a very minor variation in the demo. Certainly nothing that made it ugly or difficult to control(although it does bother me less than most when it does drop) and no relation at all to my ghost car's position. I was forced to play in 720p though, since the demo would never display anything but a black screen in 1080p -- I think I read that some others had problems with TVs that are native 720 so I assumed that was the problem there(for the display, not the FPS). Jaggies are still very noticeable however.

The sound is not at all improved for me, but I know it's not the final audio yet. The sounds themselves were not terrible, but even the slightest tap on anything would mute the sound massively and make it nearly impossible to hear my car's noises. Even hitting some curbs would mute the sound, ridiculous. I'll have to try changing the theater type next time I play. Tire sound also seemed to have very little between freely rolling and a full scream so it was tough to find the edge... I think it was there but just tough to discern.

Off-Topic: Okay, now my PS3 is letting me type right on the page again. I love this browser, it gives you something a little different vitually every time you open it. Now I just have to figure out how I magically quoted myself in the middle of typing... probably hit some commands with the keyboard.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I generally have no trouble noticing framerate drops, but didn't see anything beyond a very minor variation in the demo. Certainly nothing that made it ugly or difficult to control(although it does bother me less than most when it does drop) and no relation at all to my ghost car's position. I was forced to play in 720p though, since the demo would never display anything but a black screen in 1080p -- I think I read that some others had problems with TVs that are native 720 so I assumed that was the problem there. Jaggies are still very noticeable however.

Off-Topic: Okay, now my PS3 is letting me type right on the page again. I love this browser, it gives you something a little different vitually every time you open it.

Do you happen to have your TV sharpness set higher than 0 or enabled any picture enhancement ( edge enhance ), these post processing alters the game original visuals If I set my sharpness to 25 or more, I will see jaggies, even more so if I turn on the bad edge enhancement on my Samsung tv. This happens to all inputs - I used my TV for PC game couple of times, even with high AA, setting high sharpness value or edge enhance will mess up the picture.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Do you happen to have your TV sharpness set higher than 0 or enabled any picture enhancement ( edge enhance ), these post processing alters the game original visuals If I set my sharpness to 25 or more, I will see jaggies, even more so if I turn on the bad edge enhancement on my Samsung tv. This happens to all inputs - I used my TV for PC game couple of times, even with high AA, setting high sharpness value or edge enhance will mess up the picture.

Sharpness is set at 20 on a scale of 0-100. I do have a couple of options turned on on my Samsung(Digital Noise Reduction "low" and "LED Motion Plus" is turned on - nothing called "edge enhance" or similar here). I'm still not sure how much difference that Motion setting makes. I've turned off all of the other options the TV does have as they tend to ruin the picture and blow contrast through the roof.

I suppose I could try with "game mode" on, but I thought that actually was supposed to make things like jaggies worse by turning things off to help with the framerate. I have it off because it destroys the contrast as well and I think it overrides my color temperature setting. Why is it considered such a wonderful thing to have anything at all light turn pure white and anything at all dark turn pure black? And why do people like blue light so much? I'll never understand.

Off-Topic: Nice to see you got your PS3 repaired/replaced so you can make some difficult times for me to beat with ABS off again.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Sharpness is set at 20 on a scale of 0-100. I do have a couple of options turned on on my Samsung(Digital Noise Reduction "low" and "LED Motion Plus" is turned on - nothing called "edge enhance" or similar here). I'm still not sure how much difference that Motion setting makes. I've turned off all of the other options the TV does have as they tend to ruin the picture and blow contrast through the roof.

I suppose I could try with "game mode" on, but I thought that actually was supposed to make things like jaggies worse by turning things off to help with the framerate. I have it off because it destroys the contrast as well and I think it overrides my color temperature setting. Why is it considered such a wonderful thing to have anything at all light turn pure white and anything at all dark turn pure black? And why do people like blue light so much? I'll never understand.

Off-Topic: Nice to see you got your PS3 repaired/replaced so you can make some difficult times for me to beat with ABS off again.

I set mine in movie mode - my tv has 3 preset, standard, movie and dynamic. I set color temp to warm 2. Don't use game mode, it's bad on my samsung tv. Don't use noise reduction - it blurs the image and puts unnecessary load on the tv. Same scale for sharpness 0 to 100, I use 0

Edge enhancement is listed under detailed settings together with dynamic contrast, black adjust, gamma, etc.

OT : Yeah, I bought new PS3 Slim, you are faster on the GTR TT with no ABS 👍 I'll spend more laps on all of the TT, glad I have someone to compete with no ABS and steering wheel user to boot, lots of respect there for you

 

[Reddee]

I set my tv in display mode witch is what the shop uses when the tv is on display. It provides the best picture and I see no jaggies what so ever, I would advise any one using a Sony Bravia to use this display.

 

[Morgoth_666]

I set mine in movie mode - my tv has 3 preset, standard, movie and dynamic. I set color temp to warm 2. Don't use game mode, it's bad on my samsung tv. Don't use noise reduction - it blurs the image and puts unnecessary load on the tv. Same scale for sharpness 0 to 100, I use 0

Edge enhancement is listed under detailed settings together with dynamic contrast, black adjust, gamma, etc.

OT : Yeah, I bought new PS3 Slim, you are faster on the GTR TT with no ABS 👍 I'll spend more laps on all of the TT, glad I have someone to compete with no ABS and steering wheel user to boot, lots of respect there for you

Sounds like the exact same settings I use on mine except the sharpness and noise reduction, perhaps I'll try fiddling with those some more. It sounds like Edge Enhancement may be the same thing as my LED Motion setting with a different name, it's in that same menu. It seems to add a tiny bit of sharpness when things are in motion but it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference watching either SDTV shows or the much higher-quality(how do they do that?) On-Demand shows. It's description is "enchances motion in fast-moving scenes" whatever that actually means... games would probably qualify as fast-moving.

 

[dr_slump]

Terrible framerate and this is with only 1 car and all data on HDD!!!
I also have a feeling the resolution has dropped slightly from 1280 x 1080 to maybe 1152 x 1080 or lower.
I think they should just drop to 1280 x 720 to free up some resources, after all Forza 4 is only 720p.
I really don't get why they would try to add extra effects to a game that couldn't sustain 60fps in the first place!?

Blu-ray read times + 16 cars = Disaster!

It's either ignorance or you really never played GT5.

 

[Zer0]

Edit: Ok, so I went back to GT6 but running in 1080p mode this time and I must say...I don't understand why but it looks sharper and aliasing is a lot less noticeable while GT5 in 1080p mode looks blurry. I did experience more framerate drops with GT6 in 1080p mode though but I don't get it. Most games look better in 720p on big screens but not GT6.

I think there's something wrong with the demo, maybe PD forgot to optimize the 720p mode so the game downgrades itself to 680p (sub-HD), Still, GT5 handles aliasing better than GT6 no matter what.

The antialising in 1080p mode is the same as in 720p so running the demo at 1080p gives much better image quality than at 720p. In GT5 the 720p mode have the double of antialiasing than in 1080p to compensate the loss of resolution. Not this time in the GT6 demo. Also I suspect that at 1080p this demo renders more pixels than the 1280x1080p in GT5. Textures look more detailed to me.

Anyway this is a custom build demo, the GT6 E3 demos did not look the same regarding the image quality, probably they used other rendering presets back then.

If anyone has a 720p tv compatible with a 1080p input, configure the PS3 to 1080p and back to the demo. Will look much better than at 720p. Even at 1080i will look better than 720p.

 

[dr_slump]

If anyone has a 720p tv compatible with a 1080p input, configure the PS3 to 1080p and back to the demo. Will look much better than at 720p. Even at 1080i will look better than 720p.

It surely will. That's basically like downsampling, the best "AA" you can get.