GT5 Sound Thread

[shirakawaa]

Street cars have sound proofing and muffling, along with the interior car acoustics, and probably a different mic used. You have additional reverb on the outside off course - cars always sound better going through a tunnel as we know

GT5 engine sounds in internal views we've seen in recent videos (GT5 September 2010 Kiosk demo videos) though didn't sound muffled, but rather, thin and with the exhaust component mostly removed. It isn't really like that in real life, especially on sports cars.
Please don't tell me it's a recording issue, because regardless of samples quality/accuracy, external (rear) views sounded very credible, from the same source.

The engine sounds are nowhere near the loud sounds that many people are begging PD for and as a result nothing like the GTR2 clip posted earlier.

I've watched some excerpts with internal car views, and engines didn't really sound as in the latest GT5 videos.
GT internal views lack the "muffling" caused by the car's sound proofing. Engine noises, there, are strangely thin and clear with too much perceived mechanical component from it. External noises too seem a bit too clear.
However, again, external views in the latest demo sound credible, although certainly improvable.

 

[Le Mans 88]

Gamers have come to expect roadcars to sound like race machines.

Anyone who has watched racing live will tell you even road going supercars sound muted compared to race cars and virtually silent once out of your immediate vicinity.

With Japanease super saloons I can say from personal experience in-car sounds are little different to your average supermini.

 

[CoolColJ]

GT5 engine sounds in internal views we've seen in recent videos (GT5 September 2010 Kiosk demo videos) though didn't sound muffled, but rather, thin and with the exhaust component mostly removed. It isn't really like that in real life, especially on sports cars.
Please don't tell me it's a recording issue, because regardless of samples quality/accuracy, external (rear) views sounded very credible, from the same source.


I've watched some excerpts with internal car views, and engines didn't really sound as in the latest GT5 videos.
GT internal views lack the "muffling" caused by the car's sound proofing. Engine noises, there, are strangely thin and clear with too much perceived mechanical component from it. External noises too seem a bit too clear.
However, again, external views in the latest demo sound credible, although certainly improvable.

Now if you compare the Nascar clip to the one from Gamescom, with "direct" feed audio, you can hear it does not sound as thin. And when the view is switched to outside view at 1:51, there is no sudden change in the audio. It's a recording issue. It sounds to me like a phase cancellation problem. The phase changes in the different views when I processed this Gamescom video's audio


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[tom_jgg]

I guess (since I haven't tried it) that using a helmet and earphones also affects much, making it real to be very muffled.

 

[premhz]

Well ideally and realisticly visuals and sound should be a 50/50 even mix in a game of this level. Focusing on stunning visuals while throwing very poor sounds in is a very bad idea. It is like the previously mentioned hot girl in killer dress/perfect hair/make up/shoes and all the shiny trimmings,but the second she opens her mouth and belches the alphabet louder and harder than you or any of your mates can and then says **** i needed to get that one out. She is tarnished and GT5 and it`s sound is the same situation. If it had awesomely realistic sound then this thread wouldn`t be 150 pages long of complaints. The sound is a huge improvement but it`s still very far from where it needs to be!

 

[JDMKING13]

I will say it again Yes GT5P have some terrible sounding cars, but some really sound amazing especially during replays IMO GT5 beats every game with replay sounds. I have played Forza, Shift. As a whole GT5P sounds are pretty good GT5 will be better. I just have a problem with some folks coming on here saying the sounds suck when they are getting better.

 

[Slurm]

Gamers have come to expect roadcars to sound like race machines.

Agree. It's never more apparent than at events where you have a parade of race and road cars on the track at the same time - Hillclimbs, or manufacturer celebrations etc.

That said, a lot of the samples being used in the demos are upsetting, and the volume of most racing cars could stand to be raised a lot. They CAN do it - the F12007 fills the air with noise like most race cars should (even if it's not a great noise ).

 

[JDMKING13]

Agree. It's never more apparent than at events where you have a parade of race and road cars on the track at the same time - Hillclimbs, or manufacturer celebrations etc.

That said, a lot of the samples being used in the demos are upsetting, and the volume of most racing cars could stand to be raised a lot. They CAN do it - the F12007 fills the air with noise like most race cars should (even if it's not a great noise ).

Have you played GT5P? This is what i like about GT5P take a stock GT-R34 NurII and compare it to a Cappuccino /HP Tuned Its way louder than the GTR I think GT5 will have the same feature. 👍

Sorry I see you played GT5P did you notice this?

 

[juwlzx5]

Out of all the videos I've seen so far... I'd have to say the one with the Toms Supra at the Nurburgring sounded the best.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I've watched some excerpts with internal car views, and engines didn't really sound as in the latest GT5 videos.
GT internal views lack the "muffling" caused by the car's sound proofing. Engine noises, there, are strangely thin and clear with too much perceived mechanical component from it. External noises too seem a bit too clear.
However, again, external views in the latest demo sound credible, although certainly improvable.

When i say it sounds like GT5, I just mean the general muted sound that it has in comparison to the videos people post of different games with modded sounds. This should give a better idea of what i'm talking about



When they first start driving they have a camera chasing a Murcielago near its exhaust and the sound is very loud (as you'd expect), but once they go into the cockpit the sound is much more muted like you'd hear in GT5. It's not that raw sound that you hear in PC mods.

 

[shirakawaa]

When i say it sounds like GT5, I just mean the general muted sound that it has in comparison to the videos people post of different games with modded sounds. This should give a better idea of what i'm talking about

Ah, ok, now I understand.
Actually I meant the opposite, that sounds in the internal view in GT5 are not muted enough!
Yes, PC sims have usually exaggerated sounds. But I guess that's because most of the time they're about racing cars, not production cars, with little to no sound proofing material in the (often open) cockpit.

When they first start driving they have a camera chasing a Murcielago near its exhaust and the sound is very loud (as you'd expect), but once they go into the cockpit the sound is much more muted like you'd hear in GT5. It's not that raw sound that you hear in PC mods.

As I wrote, in my opinion, even so, GT5 cockpit view don't mute sound enough; I'm not referring to sound volume (amplitude), but frequencies. Also for some reason they're missing of much booming exhaust component in it. CoolColJ says it might be due to some recording glitch, however I'm not very sure about that.

 

[eSZee]

The latest Qore episode has very poor car sounds. I'm surprised sony didn't dub them over like they have done before. This is the latest official video from sony even though the footage is mostly old I figured they would put in the new and improved sounds. There seems to be just bass level variations between some cars while they all sound synthetic.

 

[CoolColJ]

Ah, ok, now I understand.
Actually I meant the opposite, that sounds in the internal view in GT5 are not muted enough!
Yes, PC sims have usually exaggerated sounds. But I guess that's because most of the time they're about racing cars, not production cars, with little to no sound proofing material in the (often open) cockpit.

As I wrote, in my opinion, even so, GT5 cockpit view don't mute sound enough; I'm not referring to sound volume (amplitude), but frequencies. Also for some reason they're missing of much booming exhaust component in it. CoolColJ says it might be due to some recording glitch, however I'm not very sure about that.

In Prologue you can hear a filter being applied to the sound in cockpit, vs the "bumper cam". It just doesn't go down low enough in frequency and doesn't roll off enough

 

[iLex]

Gran Turismo The Real Driving Simulator

Simulators involve realistic factors to an extent, although every person has different expectations to one another, It's a car racing simulator, the car should be 'simulated' to represent the real counterpart as a plane is in a flight simulator used in flight training exercises... I just prefer to have a car that sounds proper

I agree, the car has to be simulated. But does that mean the car has to have a 'stick on' sound that represents the original, or does it mean it has to have a sound that reacts to user input like the original would, even though the harmonic content of the sound isn't (exactly) like the original?
The ultimate answer would be both ofcourse, but if that were easy, all games would have better sound.

In my opinion the sound of the GT series reacts well to user input and from what I've heard from some of the videos is ahead on that aspect of the sound compared to most of their competitors. What their competitors are better at is creating a sound that fits the (emotion that goes with driving the) cars better, or that sounds like the car, but fails when the user input exceeds the boundaries of the possibilities of the sounds.
This debate has been going on for years in the reproduction of musical instruments (violins/flutes etc.). On the one hand they can create modelled virtual instruments that react fenominally well to user input (especially if the input device is like the original instrument, e.g. a wind controller), but those instruments don't have the exact sound of the original. On the other hand they can create beautiful samples that sound like the original instrument, but don' have the expression (and as such, fail in the department of realism when played). The ultimate solution now is to have samples and a lot of scripting, but if the user input exceeds the boundaries of the samples and scripting (even though a normal instrument would be able to play it) the instrument loses it's credibility once more. Ofcourse the ultimate solution in the future will be modelled instruments that sound exactly like the original.
Although I don't know that much about the topic of reproducing engine sounds in games, it does sound a bit like the same debate, with the same trade off.

I've been playing quite a lot of GT5P yesterday and I must say that the sound doesn't bother me. I don't particularly like the sound of the cars, but it would've bothered me more to hear artifacts when revving or to hear less clearly when to shift. I'd rather have this than any NFS sound (although I love the rawness of the sounds itself of those games).

 

[GasolineJunkie]

Sorry if this was posted already, (I haven't seen it) but the sound in this video sounds alot better in side the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcK8nswO7QE&feature=related

 

[CoolColJ]

^ Stop posting the Motul Autech GTR videos, we've already seen and heard it since late last year, and the sound hasn't changed since then......

 

[GasolineJunkie]

^ Stop posting the Motul Autech GTR videos, we've already seen and heard it since late last year, and the sound hasn't changed since then......

I said sorry if it was posted, didn't see it myself. I thought it sounded pretty good. I'll leave all of the posting of material to you, fine sir!

 

[CoolColJ]

Have a look at the past few pages, people have posted 5 or so examples of the Motul already

 

[RedBaron]

Motul Autech GT-R sounds pretty well in high revs but that sample present in low revs have been used multiple times for Le Mans cars in GT4. It just sounds so familiar to me...

 

[Griffith500]

I agree, the car has to be simulated. But does that mean the car has to have a 'stick on' sound that represents the original, or does it mean it has to have a sound that reacts to user input like the original would, even though the harmonic content of the sound isn't (exactly) like the original?
The ultimate answer would be both ofcourse, but if that were easy, all games would have better sound.

In my opinion the sound of the GT series reacts well to user input and from what I've heard from some of the videos is ahead on that aspect of the sound compared to most of their competitors. What their competitors are better at is creating a sound that fits the (emotion that goes with driving the) cars better, or that sounds like the car, but fails when the user input exceeds the boundaries of the possibilities of the sounds.
This debate has been going on for years in the reproduction of musical instruments (violins/flutes etc.). On the one hand they can create modelled virtual instruments that react fenominally well to user input (especially if the input device is like the original instrument, e.g. a wind controller), but those instruments don't have the exact sound of the original. On the other hand they can create beautiful samples that sound like the original instrument, but don' have the expression (and as such, fail in the department of realism when played). The ultimate solution now is to have samples and a lot of scripting, but if the user input exceeds the boundaries of the samples and scripting (even though a normal instrument would be able to play it) the instrument loses it's credibility once more. Ofcourse the ultimate solution in the future will be modelled instruments that sound exactly like the original.
Although I don't know that much about the topic of reproducing engine sounds in games, it does sound a bit like the same debate, with the same trade off.

I've been playing quite a lot of GT5P yesterday and I must say that the sound doesn't bother me. I don't particularly like the sound of the cars, but it would've bothered me more to hear artifacts when revving or to hear less clearly when to shift. I'd rather have this than any NFS sound (although I love the rawness of the sounds itself of those games).

Some great points there! 👍
I think, from what I've come across, your analogy would indeed carry to engine sound "synthesis" - the more you rely on the dynamic modelling, the smaller and more abstract the "samples" become, but the more flexible the sound becomes.

However, tweaking those smaller samples, which are no-longer rooted in "reality" (at least as far as we can recognise from easily-obtained references) becomes a nightmare task, and has a huge effect on the overall sound. In this case, there would be several of these small sounds layered and timed to represent the "pop" in pressure and the "rush" of gas for the intake and exhaust side, plus the combustion pop and roar through the block and out the exhaust (to a much lesser extent). Then there's the extra, mechanical sounds, too (but these are easier to get right with traditional sample-based synthesis). Getting the depth of range and subtlety to the sounds (accurately) in this more fine-grained sampling is much, much harder. I'd be surprised if we see this sort of modeling (in realtime - for a game) any time soon.

Your last paragraph echoes my own sentiments pretty much exactly.

Motul Autech GT-R sounds pretty well in high revs but that sample present in low revs have been used multiple times for Le Mans cars in GT4. It just sounds so familiar to me...

Me too...

 

[speedfreak69]

I agree that we won't see a completely synthesized quality sounds for some time, because of the tax on the performance to do it properly in real time, but I think a good enough(so basically 99% people wouldn't notice) job could be done with the samples, although not with just six samples per rpm range(3 on + 3 off) like it's been done so far in GT.👎
You have to have a capable audio engine, with a good pitch shifting algorithm, multiple sound layers(for additional noises like wind, noise, turbo, supercharger, blow-off valve,etc.), believable effects(reverb, echo, distortion, Doppler...) and of course, allowing quality long samples.
As for the samples themselves, I think 5 second steady sample loops would be good enough.
Regarding the number of samples, I feel 3 banks(accelerator pedal depressed in position 0%, 50% and 100%) of samples for each thousand rpms from idle to the red line should suffice. Also, those should be adequately scripted within the audio engine to seamlessly blend in real time.
As for the recording of the samples themselves, it seems that recording by revving in neutral sucks, recording on dynos is better, but on-track recording is the best and creates the most realistic strain on the engine subsequently producing most realistic samples.👍
Well, as far as my experience with sound modding goes, I think these specs would fit the bill nicely and are doable with the current hardware on PCs, as well as on consoles.💡

My humble 2 cents.

 

[Tagger]

I agree that we won't see a completely synthesized quality sounds for some time, because of the tax on the performance to do it properly in real time, but I think a good enough(so basically 99% people wouldn't notice) job could be done with the samples, although not with just six samples per rpm range(3 on + 3 off) like it's been done so far in GT.👎 .................................

This may sound lame. But, I want GT5 sound to fool me into thinking it sounds like the real thing. I don't care how they manage to do it. I just hope PD pulls the wool over my ears so I feel immersed in the driving experience.

 

[JDMKING13]

This may sound lame. But, I want GT5 sound to fool me into thinking it sounds like the real thing. I don't care how they manage to do it. I just hope PD pulls the wool over my ears so I feel immersed in the driving experience.

I can tell you this, I will not judge the game sound until its playing on my 7.1 I played the demo, but the sound is so hard to judge from those sucky TV speaker. I will be going back today and I'm going to tell the GameStop employee to turn the volume up. Anybody Judging sound from their stock TV speakers bless you because I dont know how you can come to any conclusions.

 

[eSZee]

I can tell you this, I will not judge the game sound until its playing on my 7.1 I played the demo, but the sound is so hard to judge from those sucky TV speaker. I will be going back today and I'm going to tell the GameStop employee to turn the volume up. Anybody Judging sound from their stock TV speakers bless you because I dont know how you can come to any conclusions.

It's not hard to come to conclusions when you're talking about the cars themselves having accurate sounds. This has been said a million times but I don't need a 7.1ch system to hear that the stingray sounds like a vacuum cleaner stuck in another vacuum clogged with a 16lb persian cat coughing up hairballs.
I would hope sony didn't make the sound so that only the 10% of people with adequate sound systems could enjoy the throaty v8 of a corvette or the raspy howl of a Zonda while everyone else hears a bunch of synthesized noise that somewhat resembles a car.

 

[analog]

It's not hard to come to conclusions when you're talking about the car themselves having accurate sounds. This has been said a million times but I don't need a 7.1ch system to hear that the stingray sounds like a vacuum cleaner stuck in another vacuum clogged with a 16lb persian cat coughing up hairballs.

Indeed, your favourite music still sounds nice and distinguishable on a crappy stereo, it only sounds nicer on a better one.
It won't all of a sudden transform into something it isn't, if an engine sound is crap it will only sound crap much clearer on a proper home cinema set.

 

[Antti-san]

Indeed, your favourite music still sounds nice and distinguishable on a crappy stereo, it only sounds nicer on a better one.
It won't all of a sudden transform into something it isn't, if an engine sound is crap it will only sound crap much clearer on a proper home cinema set.

Ditto. For example, Forza and PGR4 sound good even on my TV's built-in speakers.

 

[JDMKING13]

It's not hard to come to conclusions when you're talking about the cars themselves having accurate sounds. This has been said a million times but I don't need a 7.1ch system to hear that the stingray sounds like a vacuum cleaner stuck in another vacuum clogged with a 16lb persian cat coughing up hairballs.
I would hope sony didn't make the sound so that only the 10% of people with adequate sound systems could enjoy the throaty v8 of a corvette or the raspy howl of a Zonda while everyone else hears a bunch of synthesized noise that somewhat resembles a car.

So dave and let me ask you this why does it have an option that says If you want fully experience the sounds of GT5P you have to put it on theater small are large why have this option then if a surround system doesn't make the sound better I'm Not saying its going to fix cars such as the BMW M3 which sounds But it improves the sound way better than the stock TV speakers. Also the sub woofer plays a huge roll In GT5P and will prob do the same in GT5, people with no subs complaing about sound have no clue what they are missing with out the sub. People just over playing that a good surround will not help GT5 confuses me, whats the difference between somebody playing on a SDTV saying the graphics are sorry but never played on a HDTV And you guys with this FM3 sounds great stuff I have the game. All the cars are so loud its sounds like every car is already tuned. Stock production cars don't sound that loud even though I do like FM3 driving sounds they are a little over the top but not as bas as Shift. Replay sound In FM3 👎

Anyway after playing the GT5 Demo for 2 hours straight (My wife was so pissed ) and asking the store manager to make the volume louder I could hear some pretty good sound. The Lambo sounded pretty damn good during 3rd person view and replay mode in interior mode its sounds a little weird. I think my Favorite was the Mercedes OMG sounded like a beast!! Some of those Youtube videos do not do sound justice. The Nascar sounded pretty damn good cant wait to hear how it sounds on my surround.

 

[eSZee]

So dave and let me ask you this why does it have an option that says If you want fully experience the sounds of GT5P you have to put it on theater small are large why have this option then if a surround system doesn't make the sound better I'm Not saying its going to fix cars such as the BMW M3 which sounds But it improves the sound way better than the stock TV speakers. Also the sub woofer plays a huge roll In GT5P and will prob do the same in GT5, people with no subs complaing about sound have no clue what they are missing with out the sub. People just over playing that a good surround will not help GT5 confuses me, whats the difference between somebody playing on a SDTV saying the graphics are sorry but never played on a HDTV And you guys with this FM3 sounds great stuff I have the game. All the cars are so loud its sounds like every car is already tuned. Stock production cars don't sound that loud even though I do like FM3 driving sounds they are a little over the top but not as bas as Shift. Replay sound In FM3 👎

Anyway after playing the GT5 Demo for 2 hours straight (My wife was so pissed ) and asking the store manager to make the volume louder I could hear some pretty good sound. The Lambo sounded pretty damn good during 3rd person view and replay mode in interior mode its sounds a little weird. I think my Favorite was the Mercedes OMG sounded like a beast!! Some of those Youtube videos do not do sound justice. The Nascar sounded pretty damn good cant wait to hear how it sounds on my surround.

I'm sure it has more to do with where which sounds are coming from and what is projected with what intensity more than anything else. That's what the options did in GT5P. If I was using my sound system I used either large or small theater. However if I was using my TV speakers, I couldn't hear most things with those options selected.
I think you're confusing yourself since I didn't say anything like that. Again how will a surround sound magically correct the poor base samples?

 

[shirakawaa]

Doesn't the large/Small theater sound setting adjust the relative volume between sounds so that loud sounds sound loud and quiet ones quiet? It hasn't much to do with surround, it makes the relative volume between different sounds more realistic but assumes that the user is using speakers with a large dynamic range and that he is able to use high sound volumes, and both of which are something that is not always possible especially when using (or being forced to use) TV speakers.

 

[PAPPACLART]

My amp - http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/TX-SR507.html
My speakers - http://www.energy-speakers.com/na-en/products/take-classic-5-1-overview/

The above, certainly not top of the range, but better than a cinema in the box and much better than TV speakers!!

I am bit of an audio freak, and will fiddle until it sounds right, 5.1 does nothing for GT5P as the majority of samples for engine/exhaust, are either wrong or poorly captured. All a 5.1 does is provide me with sound out of 5 speakers and rumble out of the sub.

A friend of mine has BBC studio spec PMC speakers worth a few several thousand £ each, plus, a sub the size of a small tank being powered by a £5000 Denon Amp, GT5P still sounds not so good.