GT5 Sound Thread

  • Thread starter Marry_Me_GT
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Hey guys, hope you all had a good weekend! Well I've digested most of what's been mentioned since I last posted, and I'm really glad people actually posted proper examples of what they think are good game sounds.

Raitziger
here is better:
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Yes, that sounds great! However, there is a lot of detail missing (particularly low frequencies) - could be YouTube's fault, but I've heard so many samples recorded in the 60s that have that similar, flat and dry mid-biased sound.

speedfreak69
I actually hate doing this, although I'm proud of what I achieved, but it's a great way to illustrate a point.💡 If I, and I haven't done any sound modding prior to this, could've done these sounds myself as a hobby just because I didn't like the stock sounds in the game(Test Drive Unlimited btw.), then I think the sound guys over at PD should be ashamed with their crappy sounds:yuck:, considering how much time/money/equipment/people/etc they have and there's just no way around that fact. I'm just puzzled how they still have their jobs and are making the sound again(poorly) for the 5th installment of the game???:ouch::nervous::dunce:
Selection of my sound mods:
(bear in mind that some cars sound better than others for the simple reason in that I happened to ran into better samples and not because my ears went "bad" or my "skill fluctuated":P)
p.s. I even added some stuff that wasn't originally in the game such as pops and bangs on the overrun, or the wastegate effect:dopey:
p.p.s. and NO, I don't consider my sounds to be perfect, but PD's are just sad.👎
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Your samples are a very good effort considering, but I'm sorry, they're not at all realistic. I'm assuming now that TDU features unmodified performance vehicles.
The majority of them have far too much low frequency distortion (probably due to bad quality recordings) and weird phasing effects due to low-precision (temporally speaking) interpolation when shifting the pitch of the blended samples with engine speed.
Another weird artifact, which I will attribute to the audio engine, is the odd chorus effect audible when the car is idling.

It's not a personal attack, I'm very impressed with what you have produced, and given the right set of well balanced samples, I'd guess you could easily produce something that is really impressive!

speedfreak69
snip!

...and majority agrees that GT's sounds are definitely sub par.

snip!

Let's hope it changes for the better in the full game...
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I have seen no such evidence for any kind of majority. Yes, the final game will reveal all - I am expecting modified and racing cars to sound fantastic.

Fredde_swe
Here is another great example of good sound
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The sound samples are very good; well blended, although I can hear some looping artifacts. Again, there are weird artifacts from pitch variations as the rpm rises and during Doppler shifts. All this reminds me of the early TOCA games (NOT Race Driver...!).

snoopybg
snip!
@Raitziger If I wasn't looking I would never be able to tell it's a game not a real car. So much for not comparing to real life. It's a game, a really old one and it is 98% as real in the sound department.

Beyond this point anyone stating GT5:P sounds are good compared to other games (even if they're moded) is a deaf fanboy.

And please stop the processing capacity whine. I can run rfactor on my 4 years old computer.
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I admit there are moments where it does sound very convincing, but the artifacts really pop out at me and ruin it! I'd say 70% at best, mostly due to the audio engine.

GT5:P does have good sounds. You are the one who is deaf, your post of that beta AU V16 sound demonstrates that nicely.

rFactor was released 4 years ago.

CoolColJ
the doppler effects in all the above videos ---> fail bad

sounds like a bunch of mosquitos driving past :yuck:
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Sadly true, and all because sound is (was) not taken seriously enough.

snoopybg
I'll first wait PD to get at least one car's sounds right, before I start caring about doppler and interior acoustics. So far they've failed to do so.
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DC5 Type-R. Very, very good representation. The manifold roar from inside the car is superb, the cammy high end is spot on, too, and it's one of the few cars to have accurate intake roar. The exhaust note is spot on, but they have over-done the gas-flow distortion somewhat, as with the R35 GTR.

GTracerRens
The GT5 Time Trial demo sounds very good, but when I watch some videos on youtube... I hope Polyphony Digital makes it as realistic as possible! Hear the noise of this Lamborghini on the track!!! That's what I want to hear when GT5 comes out!
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That has straight pipes, but yeah I'd love to mod a Murcielago and get that scream. I have high hopes, alright! :dopey:
 
By any chance, are you a sound pro Griffith500 as that dissection sounded very convincing :)
(I know very little about sounds so i'm not saying you are right though ;))
 
Griffith500
Your samples are a very good effort considering, but I'm sorry, they're not at all realistic. I'm assuming now that TDU features unmodified performance vehicles.
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Firstly, thank you. Secondly, it features unmodified and modified cars, also, I reserve my right to make the sounds the way I like them, for example, I was going for a specific tuner sounds with a couple of those cars, and also, you have to take into consideration that I haven't heard most of those high end cars in reality(let alone drove them!), just via youtube, top gear and so on. Lastly, I use imagination;), that is to say, I'm imagining that I'm driving a stock 360 Stradale just with the capristo exhaust for example.:drool:

So, while I do pretend some cars are stock, even for those cars, I made the sound closest to the best video of reference(and the one I subjectively most liked) that I had. Anyway, it wasn't professional work, but that's what I expect from PD, not this synthesized lifeless approximation of engine sounds they've been doing for years...:guilty:
The majority of them have far too much low frequency distortion (probably due to bad quality recordings) and weird phasing effects due to low-precision (temporally speaking) interpolation when shifting the pitch of the blended samples with engine speed.
Another weird artifact, which I will attribute to the audio engine, is the odd chorus effect audible when the car is idling.
Click to expand...
You're right, it's an odd audio engine and it has a lot of limitations and foibles, and also, a lot of it(work) was trial and error until I had some decent results, but I think it's particularly embarrassing(for PD) that I managed to create what many on this forum consider better sounds than a mighty studio like that is capable of, in spite of all the aforementioned limitations!(audio engine,samples,mine:P)
It's not a personal attack, I'm very impressed with what you have produced, and given the right set of well balanced samples, I'd guess you could easily produce something that is really impressive!
Click to expand...
Thx again, it's nice to have some appreciation from someone who has some knowledge on the subject, and considering the samples, you're right again, better the samples, better the whole sound!(although even the prefect sound would probably get some critique as this is highly subjective thing;))
I have seen no such evidence for any kind of majority. Yes, the final game will reveal all - I am expecting modified and racing cars to sound fantastic.
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Ok, I don't have any statistical data on my hands:sly:, but judging by the posts on sound related threads, I'd say there's 7 out of 10 people that consider the sound component in GT sub par(in relation to it's own graphics for example, or on the other hand, to the sound of some other games). From the remaining 3 people, I would reckon 1 has some knowledge and contra arguments, and in the end, the last 2 are just fanboys who would never even admit that there's anything wrong with GT and if it was up to those people, GT would still be on PS1 because it's perfect and you don't really need fancy-schmancy graphics,sounds,physics,AI,damage,weather,on-line,etc. :ouch: ;)
 
speedfreak69
Mega-snip!!
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Ahh, considering your aims, the sound patches are all the more successful! 👍
Also, it demonstrates quite clearly that your goals are very different to PD's, in that you were 'just' making sounds according to what you had available and how you felt the car "ought" to sound; PD are trying to make the car sound as it does in the real world - however, the consistency in their attempts is questionable at this stage:

RedBaron
...in your opinion. And now you can see that it sounds totally dry and dead in comparison to real car.
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I had a quick rag about in the ST last night, and I was disappointed that I couldn't hear that wonderful 5-cyl howl (as with the Audi Quattro, or Lambo' Gallardo) - however, the recording above of the Focus' engine-bay sounds very similar to the car in GT5:P, which may indicate that this is yet another case of dodgy balancing of the various sound sources. I am rather concerned at the level of overrun on that Focus, though... I doubt Volvo would approve :P
I also discovered another annoying loop, this time with the Ford GT around and above 4000 rpm.

Regarding this "majority" thing, whilst I've forgotten my general impression of the opinions posted (and can't be bothered to go back and read them), we should remember that many people who have opinions don't post, and many also just don't care! :dopey:

As for my expertise / knowledge on the subject, I am merely a casual enthusiast. I've attempted sound patches in the past and am currently learning about digital sound techniques for my own synthesiser project.

The most important part of my 'education' in that respect, has been learning to truly open my ears and listen to what I'm hearing. It might sound stupid, but if you expect something to sound in a certain way (e.g. that 360 with the capristo pipes), then you will obviously be disappointed when you hear that it differs. My point is you should ask yourself: "are my expectations accurate, or even relevant?" Even if you think they might be, try being open-minded.

As speedfreak69 said, even the "perfect" sound would be subject to various critique, simply because of the subjective nature of our perceptions.
 
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Griffith500
Ahh, considering your aims, the sound patches are all the more successful! 👍
Also, it demonstrates quite clearly that your goals are very different to PD's, in that you were 'just' making sounds according to what you had available and how you felt the car "ought" to sound; PD are trying to make the car sound as it does in the real world - however, the consistency in their attempts is questionable at this stage:
Click to expand...
Thanks again, I'm not even gonna pretend that my mods were 100% realistic cockpit sounds, cuz they obviously weren't, but still, you could imagine those engines sounded like that with those custom exhausts and windows rolled down.;) ...while GT's engine sounds? hmm with few exceptions, almost all of them sounded synthetic and were exciting as much as your mum vacuuming around the house:P;) which is NOT what I expect from Gran Turismo, if those 3D models are of such amazing quality, then the sounds should be also!💡

Regarding this "majority" thing, whilst I've forgotten my general impression of the opinions posted (and can't be bothered to go back and read them), we should remember that many people who have opinions don't post, and many also just don't care! :dopey:
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That's true, but in my experience, maybe only three people had some actual worthwhile arguments to even debate about on this subject, and there's definite sense of disappointment from almost everyone else who cares enough to write something...

The most important part of my 'education' in that respect, has been learning to truly open my ears and listen to what I'm hearing. It might sound stupid, but if you expect something to sound in a certain way (e.g. that 360 with the capristo pipes), then you will obviously be disappointed when you hear that it differs. My point is you should ask yourself: "are my expectations accurate, or even relevant?" Even if you think they might be, try being open-minded.
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Well I hear you;), I'm a musician myself, so having an "ear" for this kind of job is pretty important, specially when you're in mixing/mastering faze, which could be where PD gets it so wrong.(that's with ignoring the fact that their audio engine does sound sort of half-synthesized which is a bad thing when isn't programed properly...)
 
RedBaron
...in your opinion. And now you can see that it sounds totally dry and dead in comparison to real car.
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do you know anything about acoustics and environment reverb?

you have a video that is a badly clipped recording of a car game being played through some speakers indoors vs a real car being recorded from the outside in an open outdoor environment
 
RedBaron
...in your opinion. And now you can see that it sounds totally dry and dead in comparison to real car.
Click to expand...

Wow. You're comparing a video recording of a video game coming out through tv speakers to a recording of a live car though a camcorder?
We know the game doesn't sound that great but your comparison is just ridiculous.

what he said^
 
speedfreak69
snippety... almost all of them sounded synthetic ...snip... if those 3D models are of such amazing quality, then the sounds should be also!💡
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Well, technically all video-game car-engine sounds are synthetic (in that samples are assembled in such a way as to approximate the real-world sound) - and all definitely sound as much. I think I know what you mean, but I have no real idea what causes it to sound like that - it may be their "direct synthesis", as opposed to the samples used, but there seems to be so many additional layers now.

speedfreak69
That's true, but in my experience, maybe only three people had some actual worthwhile arguments to even debate about on this subject, and there's definite sense of disappointment from almost everyone else who cares enough to write something...
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I've been disappointed in every racing game I've played, regarding the sound at least. Hopefully one day my expectations will be met, even if it means I have to lower them :ouch:

speedfreak69
Well I hear you;), I'm a musician myself, so having an "ear" for this kind of job is pretty important, specially when you're in mixing/mastering faze, which could be where PD gets it so wrong.(that's with ignoring the fact that their audio engine does sound sort of half-synthesized which is a bad thing when isn't programed properly...)
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I agree the "half-synthesised" thing could easily be avoided by proper mixing (i.e. relative "levels") of the type of samples used, yes. I don't think many other developers use separate engine / intake / exhaust sounds, let alone extra layers on top of these (gas flow into intake and out of exhaust tip, etc.)

I too am a musician, but I think that proper analysis - and hence a sense of fundamental understanding that gives one a competency in the design and realisation (given certain artistic ability) - of such sounds is distinct from any listening skills (I have) as a musician. It's a bit like trying to deconstruct a synthetic musical instrument, or design and patch your own synthetic instrument - it's insanely difficult, I can tell you. Coupled with the number of times I've had to work around dodgy instrument samples, I would've been better off learning to play the instrument itself!!

The relevance of which, is that car engine sounds (that is, engine, intake, exhaust etc.) are insanely complex also, although their stochastic nature makes approximations that much easier (like the early drum samples created with only basic subtractive synthesis and a bit of filtering...).
This also means that, ideally, you'd need an infinite number of samples (not to mention some badass procedural post-processing) to properly represent the sound of any car. That's where direct synthesis comes in, to blend the gaps between the sampled points, as well as add a bit of "micro-dynamism" to the timbre, etc.

As for personal taste, I think it's safe to assume that it is better for PD to aim for realism across the board (there is so much sound missing with other games) rather than trying to make them sound "exciting" to appease a certain group. With unmodified cars, they'll get there, eventually - but for modified cars, I think they're really close now.
 
Corvette ZR1 needs to sound this badass.




Murciélago LP 670-4 SV must sound this sexy.




Oh, and the ZR1 edged out the Murc SV ;)
 
I prefer the sound of a burbly v8, I miss my cobra, to a v12 as well but comparing both cars in any other way and it's just not fair, except price.
 
Griffith500
Yes! Man, I just love a supercharged cross-plane V8! Sounds like they had the microphone on the exhaust manifold!



Not as good a recording :( Still, it's got a good zorst on it, a real hollow zing! :dopey:
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I love that recording! But I hope PD can at least mimic, to some degree, those videos.
 
There's a big misunderstanding that realistic in game sounds are bound to be not boring. Cars are exciting when driven at high speed. Even low powered stock 4 cyl cars can be pretty exciting to hear screaming at top rpm's. In GT5:Prologue even the super cars sound very boring.
 
snoopybg
In GT5:Prologue even the super cars sound very boring.
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Would you prefer if they shot flames out of their eyeballs and farted screaming death from their exhaust pipes (even if it were a Mazda Demio), just so that you'd not be bored?

The main part that makes a real car not boring, is the fact that the sound surrounds you - the whole shell reverberates. You also have a much larger field of vision, so the sensation of speed is far superior (not to mention the danger...). Couple with that the one thing that is missing from all games: feel. You cannot feel the car flex and vibrate and rumble and pitch and yaw as it skits along the bumpy sweeps coming out of Pflanzgarten.

All these make for a somewhat more boring experience. It's also why I suggested turning it up... :rolleyes:

In my experience, it is the racing that really excites. LFS used to sound a bit, er, rough before the new pulse sound was used. Despite this, I've had some of the most exhilarating experiences racing that game online. I was pleased when GT5:P offered the same level of borderline mania :dopey:

EDIT: I couldn't resist!
snoopybg
Even low powered stock 4 cyl cars can be pretty exciting to hear screaming at top rpm's.
Click to expand...



Granted 2 of these are 3-cyl cars (I love the sound they make, like a V6!), but you get the idea! :)
 
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Griffith500
Would you prefer if they shot flames out of their eyeballs and farted screaming death from their exhaust pipes (even if it were a Mazda Demio), just so that you'd not be bored?
Click to expand...

Actually, when you put it that way, it'd be kinda cool. Maybe not all the time but as a cheat mode or something - "Activating Screaming Death Fart! ... Please wait..."
 
Don't worry folks sound will be Ok in GT5, maybe not in every car, but it should be good across the range

Video from the Tokyo Auto Salon. It looks to be a Lexus ISF time trial, there is a ghost of an ISF shown there.
It sure sounds like a burbley V8 👍

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD_KlZ8e2Ok
 
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Griffith500
Well, technically all video-game car-engine sounds are synthetic (in that samples are assembled in such a way as to approximate the real-world sound) - and all definitely sound as much. I think I know what you mean, but I have no real idea what causes it to sound like that - it may be their "direct synthesis", as opposed to the samples used, but there seems to be so many additional layers now.
I agree the "half-synthesised" thing could easily be avoided by proper mixing (i.e. relative "levels") of the type of samples used, yes. I don't think many other developers use separate engine / intake / exhaust sounds, let alone extra layers on top of these (gas flow into intake and out of exhaust tip, etc.)
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I think you know what I meant, the kind of synthesized sound LFS uses(no samples), but maybe mixed with the samples also...in a not exactly stellar way, specially in the high revs!:yuck:
I think it can be done almost identically to the real thing, using silent dynos and recording samples of say 5 seconds for every thousand rpm(idle to red line) with full strain(100% gas), half depressed pedal and overrun(0% gas) which would be played/mixed accordingly to the various positions of the accelerator pedal. There should be about 5 mics to record different sounds of the different parts of the engine/exhaust, so they can be mixed accordingly in relation to revs. For example intake and exhaust are heard in different ratios at 2000rpm as opposed to 7000rpm.
I think I saw a video of Forza3 recording session and it was done basically just like I described my own ideal recording concept, and although Forza's sound isn't perfect, engines do resemble a hell of a lot more to their real life counterparts than they do in GT!👍
btw. In TDU a car sound usually consisted of just idle/low/mid/high samples + low/mid/high overruns(0% gas) and I did manage to create some pretty decent sounds;)...then again, if it were like I described up there(ideally),how awesome could've they sounded!:);)
I too am a musician, but I think that proper analysis - and hence a sense of fundamental understanding that gives one a competency in the design and realisation (given certain artistic ability) - of such sounds is distinct from any listening skills (I have) as a musician. It's a bit like trying to deconstruct a synthetic musical instrument, or design and patch your own synthetic instrument - it's insanely difficult, I can tell you. Coupled with the number of times I've had to work around dodgy instrument samples, I would've been better off learning to play the instrument itself!!
The relevance of which, is that car engine sounds (that is, engine, intake, exhaust etc.) are insanely complex also, although their stochastic nature makes approximations that much easier (like the early drum samples created with only basic subtractive synthesis and a bit of filtering...).
This also means that, ideally, you'd need an infinite number of samples (not to mention some badass procedural post-processing) to properly represent the sound of any car. That's where direct synthesis comes in, to blend the gaps between the sampled points, as well as add a bit of "micro-dynamism" to the timbre, etc.
Click to expand...
Well I would argue that the listening part(as a musician) comes into play if you've ever done mixing/mastering of a record which consists of lots of sounds, like few tracks of guitars, bass, various drums, vocals, etc, and you must be able to make sense of all of that by leveling everything properly, eq-ing it, adding compressors and other effects and so on. I would compare that to the recorded samples of various engine/exhaust parts with which you must do practically the same thing as with mixing the song...sort of.:P I think you'll get what I mean.;)
As for personal taste, I think it's safe to assume that it is better for PD to aim for realism across the board (there is so much sound missing with other games) rather than trying to make them sound "exciting" to appease a certain group. With unmodified cars, they'll get there, eventually - but for modified cars, I think they're really close now.
Click to expand...
Aiming for realism is just fine by me, in fact, that's what I'm expecting from them, but currently, I disagree that they are close now...I'm still hoping to that promised(K.Y.) major overhaul of the sound component to show its head in some future trailer...;)
CoolColJ
Don't worry folks sound will be Ok in GT5, maybe not in every car, but it should be good across the range
Video from the Tokyo Auto Salon. It looks to be a Lexus ISF time trial, there is a ghost of an ISF shown there.
It sure sounds like a burbley V8 👍
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD_KlZ8e2Ok
Click to expand...
That's actually not bad at low revs, but as it goes up it quickly loses credibility...but we won't judge too much from that cam recording.;)
 
this is an ISF with an after market exhaust, and it sounds quite similar. Even when you consider interior induction + exhaust vs just exterior exhaust sound. A stock ISF in real life, as in the GT5 video sounds even quieter and less bassy...
in fact you will find stock cars much quieter and tiny in reality vs the ones you will hear in GT5 I'm sure.

 
RedOak
i was watching this video again of the new '86concept... and it struck me as wierd that the tire screeching actually sound good... i'm more then sceptical about this video as i've convinced myself its soundtrack is faked with mixed in tire sounds.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/toyota-ft-86-gran-turismo/60884

It'd be very nice it those sounds were in the game for real... that would, for once, be a big step forward in the GT series.
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It's the same tyre sound as in the ISF video I posted, listen to it side by side.

Also the sounds in the data logger video are all GT5 I'm sure. Engine. exhaust and all. It sounds like a stock ISF
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/news/d8925.html
 

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