- 73
- SudieB
The Sauber C9 does not sound like a mixer IRL..I was there in '89 and even though it is a twin turbo it does sound like a very nice V8
GT5 Sound Thread
- Thread starter Marry_Me_GT
- 5,638 comments
- 546,544 views
- 8,725
It's interesting to see that other people take issue with the odd layering of "extra detail". I wonder if they could have used those resources (presumably another sample, unless it's mixed before loading, or already on the disk even) to actually get the sound right.
I agree that, given the resources PD are already using, they could improve overall. I keep on banging this drum, but intake noise (damnit! INTAKE! Ahem.) Intake sounds added to the "engine" whir would go a long way to improve the sound from the front of the car, and even (especially) from the interior. If they just mix it into the loops, then there is an issue that the whir stays the same volume relative to the intake for all engine conditions, which is a bit 🤬. Alternatively, cleverly re-allocating the memory to allow two separate samples to be mixed separately into one "source" would be ideal, but that will probably still need more memory and a touch extra CPU - but there's always the option to dial back the level of detail (e.g. on other cars, like GT2).
Anyway, my opinion on the lack of fidelity across the board (intake excluded) is that PD does not have the required reference material to complement the isolated recordings. That, coupled with the insane difficulty in knowing the sound of every car in the game, means that a lot of the time the sound guys are flying blind. This would also explain the odd "tuned" sounds, e.g. 6 cyl. S2000 and 4 cyl. Cappuccino. Perhaps the sound guys (there's only two of them, for all sound design in the game) aren't really aware of how certain configuration engines should sound, for a given era of motoring and motorsport.
Since they're doing "premium" cars now, they'll almost certainly have to get hold of the cars (again) and this will give them the chance to get decent reference material (drive the car on a track, at various levels of aggressiveness, where permitted
) and record both the interior and exterior sounds. The interior recordings would ideally include a mechanical transducer attached to the seat rails, and a stereo pair of mics near the driver's seat. Again, this is for reference - an artist's "target recording" - which can be used to mix the isolated recordings of the actual individual sources. These isolated recordings are of much higher quality, but are missing the balance of the actual thing, which is where the artists (sound designers) come in, by way of the reference recordings.
Another thing I'd like them to do, is transmit a small amount of the physics information into the interior sound - things like tyres losing traction and re-gripping suddenly, or bumps in the road (which are currently handled only if the wheels leave the road, i.e. event-based, like collisions are). This would inject a whole lot of character into the sounds. It would mostly be low-frequency thuds (I'm not sure what sort of noise would fall out of the physics engine), but could be embellished with higher-frequency rattles and creaks where appropriate - although there is a danger that this would have to be generic, and there will be a small CPU and bandwidth overhead again.
And for my final crazy idea, PD should attach an array of mechanical transducers to the engine block, the engine mounts and the chassis near the mounts and record the output in the same way as they do exhaust etc. These would come in handy when mixing the interior noise, especially if we want it to change with "weight reduction". However, we are probably into the realms of requiring much more memory and processing power, unless some awesome trickery can be pulled off. But whilst PD have access to the cars, why not?
It's also about time they expanded their repertoire of "tuned" samples...
I agree that, given the resources PD are already using, they could improve overall. I keep on banging this drum, but intake noise (damnit! INTAKE! Ahem.) Intake sounds added to the "engine" whir would go a long way to improve the sound from the front of the car, and even (especially) from the interior. If they just mix it into the loops, then there is an issue that the whir stays the same volume relative to the intake for all engine conditions, which is a bit 🤬. Alternatively, cleverly re-allocating the memory to allow two separate samples to be mixed separately into one "source" would be ideal, but that will probably still need more memory and a touch extra CPU - but there's always the option to dial back the level of detail (e.g. on other cars, like GT2).
Anyway, my opinion on the lack of fidelity across the board (intake excluded) is that PD does not have the required reference material to complement the isolated recordings. That, coupled with the insane difficulty in knowing the sound of every car in the game, means that a lot of the time the sound guys are flying blind. This would also explain the odd "tuned" sounds, e.g. 6 cyl. S2000 and 4 cyl. Cappuccino. Perhaps the sound guys (there's only two of them, for all sound design in the game) aren't really aware of how certain configuration engines should sound, for a given era of motoring and motorsport.
Since they're doing "premium" cars now, they'll almost certainly have to get hold of the cars (again) and this will give them the chance to get decent reference material (drive the car on a track, at various levels of aggressiveness, where permitted
) and record both the interior and exterior sounds. The interior recordings would ideally include a mechanical transducer attached to the seat rails, and a stereo pair of mics near the driver's seat. Again, this is for reference - an artist's "target recording" - which can be used to mix the isolated recordings of the actual individual sources. These isolated recordings are of much higher quality, but are missing the balance of the actual thing, which is where the artists (sound designers) come in, by way of the reference recordings.Another thing I'd like them to do, is transmit a small amount of the physics information into the interior sound - things like tyres losing traction and re-gripping suddenly, or bumps in the road (which are currently handled only if the wheels leave the road, i.e. event-based, like collisions are). This would inject a whole lot of character into the sounds. It would mostly be low-frequency thuds (I'm not sure what sort of noise would fall out of the physics engine), but could be embellished with higher-frequency rattles and creaks where appropriate - although there is a danger that this would have to be generic, and there will be a small CPU and bandwidth overhead again.
And for my final crazy idea, PD should attach an array of mechanical transducers to the engine block, the engine mounts and the chassis near the mounts and record the output in the same way as they do exhaust etc. These would come in handy when mixing the interior noise, especially if we want it to change with "weight reduction". However, we are probably into the realms of requiring much more memory and processing power, unless some awesome trickery can be pulled off. But whilst PD have access to the cars, why not?
It's also about time they expanded their repertoire of "tuned" samples...
- 3,221
- Maldives
- zedextreme8177
[/QUOTE]
I'm using two different terms (keep them italicized):
Realistic: As close to the real car as possible, but may not sound good.
Quality: Measure of how rich feel to it, but may or may not sound realistic.
For example, the 908 Hdi FAP sound in GT5 has a lot of Quality, it has a lot of the sounds needed, but it lacks complete realism
Its not really that bad when compared side-to-side (something that can't be said for the R10
The Audi R10 on the other hand (you can tell I'm visibly dissapointed with this) has so much wrong with it, I'd be violating the AUP trying to describe it.
The R10 lacks both realism and quality. On a side-note, it has 6 gears in GT5 while the real one has only 5
This is true, if you look behind while driving the 908 from cockpit view, you can hear a very unique tranny sound, same goes with the Mazda 787B and the R10 Tdi.
- 8,725
You're not the only one:
For me, there are far more glaring issues with the sound, but this particular one does highlight the shortcoming with the memory available on the PS3. I know what you're actually saying is that they should have put the samples where you're driving most of the time, and "pitch-shift" to the bits where you don't - which is probably the lower-middle section of the rev range. The trouble is, this doesn't really fix the problem, since it'll be just as (if not more) jarring when you do venture into those lo-fi areas. I suppose we'd have to try it to be able to make a judgement either way.
- 1,689
- NY
- SavageEvil
I want PD to include in the sound options separate controls for the audio in the game. Player car sound effects should be split into engine, wind, tire and that annoying transmission sound. Then there should be opponent cars, of which I would only rely on engine, tire and gear shift sounds. Come on PD, give us a little more control, I want to turn that tranny whine down as far as possible, that stuff is incredibly annoying to listen to. It's worse than the sonic boom wind noise from GT4.
- 8,725
Both
Griffith500 - there are some thuds incar in GT5 already like the expansion joints on some tracks etc
re 908 Hdi FAP - it sounds quite similar to the real car in cockpit, but not outside
Stuff that was posted a few pages back
[GT5 908]
[Real 908]
Yes, but just like "jumping" the car, these thuds are dependent on the tyres actually leaving the ground (event based). Since the road abruptly changes height twice in quick succession, the tyre actually "falls" onto the far edge of the expansion gap - that is, viewed immediately below the axis of the wheel's rotation, the tyre is off the ground whilst it is over the expansion joint.
You could do a similar thing on Eiger Nordwand in Prologue; at the bottom of the hill (going "forwards") just before the bridge, the slip road (that became the pit exit) was slightly lower than the main track, with a distinct lip. Even at slow speeds, you could invoke the landing "thud" as you drove off the track onto the slip road - although it's volume was speed-dependent. These thuds were also audible in replays, so long as the car was coasting slowly, but not too slow.
What I'm suggesting is a constant stream of, perhaps, tyre (better: suspension mount) load (or its "acceleration") from all four corners be fed into the audio system, filtered to remove any nasty noise etc. and any sudden changes in the load (like the lip on Eiger, or expansion joints on Route 5) will automatically produce a low frequency thud, depending on the filter.
Things like the loss and regain of traction on a hard launch will also cause that rather unsettling "juddery thud" sound you get. Sometimes, particularly with heavy cars with street tyres, really pushing the tyre hard will cause the whole thing to vibrate (GT5 already appears to do this with the tyre screeching sound, I've heard it chatter on many occasions) - this translates to a vibration in the cockpit, which may or may not be audible, but will definitely be felt (sub-woofer and / or buttkicker, basically.) Then there's all the little lumps and bumps on the Nordschleife, Le Sarthe, Rally "stages" etc. etc.
These are the sorts of things I mean. Pie in the sky, probably, but one can only hope for the future.
"Advanced" sound options would be great. Then we could demonstrate our superior mixing skills to PD
- 594
- OKC, U.S.
- calansvc
I would love to have physics-derived low frequency harmonics pumped into the sub channel. As it is now, my butt kickers just rumble along with canned effects, rarely in sync with anything that is really going on. (Unless it's something major like punting one of the AI drones of course 
).
).
- 9,058
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
- 1,118
- YassirNosir
I just noticed that if you play on SSR5, if you lay on the horn, then let off, you can hear it echo. Thought that was real neat.
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- 932
- Chicano3000X
- Chicano3000
This is a good sound:
- 3,221
- Maldives
- zedextreme8177
It sounds excellent, apart from the fact that it sounds almost the same as the Corvette (although they have similar large-displacement V8s anyway)
- 96
I'm more impressed with engine start up sound from garage when your switch from car to car. Less impress when car is speeding down the road. Plus I wish there's a way to turn of tire squeal or tone it down.
the Interceptor
Premium
- 4,173
- BEL / GER
- theInterceptor77
There will be a big patch. It will be called GT6.
- 8,725
The Ford GT's start up sound is awful, though. It sounds like it's in a hangar.
Which reminds me, all tracks do seem to have a unique reverb / echo sound. SSR5's is indeed quite convincing as a city scape, with lots of staccato, whilst the Nordschleife is more diffuse, thanks to the trees. It's just a shame they are so quiet and, well, echoey.
I love how that Challenger turns into a six-cylinder in the top-end.
------------
On an unrelated note, I tried a proof of concept of extracting physics data to use as road noise (bumps, thuds etc.) in the interior views. It works, but I was right to be wary of the "noise" coming out of the physics engine - each game will differ, of course. I used a 1965 Honda RA272 in GPL at Spa - focusing on "Eau Rouge". I chose GPL largely because you can use third party tools to extract "telemetry" from replays. The car is lightweight (470 kg dry), has a fairly high ride height and is softly sprung by modern standards.
In red is the suspension travel (positive means compressed, possibly inches), x-axis showing distance on track (up to 750 "metres", supposedly); and in blue is the acceleration, x-axis showing time (up to 6 seconds in this case).
I apologise for the inconsistent x-axis - the car is speeding up from left-to-right, which gives the "compression" in the second graph. The blue trace was fed into a "digital to analogue converter" after filtering.
The output is mostly low-frequency, naturally, so the best effect would be felt through a "buttkicker". But I don't know how to avoid DC offset with slow-moving signals - my headphones probably hate me now. I tried synching it with the replay, and it sounded quite good. I know it's technically inaccurate to be using suspension travel, so I was surprised when it sounded the way it did.
Now, someone who knows what they're doing, get this working in a game!
Which reminds me, all tracks do seem to have a unique reverb / echo sound. SSR5's is indeed quite convincing as a city scape, with lots of staccato, whilst the Nordschleife is more diffuse, thanks to the trees. It's just a shame they are so quiet and, well, echoey.
I love how that Challenger turns into a six-cylinder in the top-end.
------------
On an unrelated note, I tried a proof of concept of extracting physics data to use as road noise (bumps, thuds etc.) in the interior views. It works, but I was right to be wary of the "noise" coming out of the physics engine - each game will differ, of course. I used a 1965 Honda RA272 in GPL at Spa - focusing on "Eau Rouge". I chose GPL largely because you can use third party tools to extract "telemetry" from replays. The car is lightweight (470 kg dry), has a fairly high ride height and is softly sprung by modern standards.
In red is the suspension travel (positive means compressed, possibly inches), x-axis showing distance on track (up to 750 "metres", supposedly); and in blue is the acceleration, x-axis showing time (up to 6 seconds in this case).
I apologise for the inconsistent x-axis - the car is speeding up from left-to-right, which gives the "compression" in the second graph. The blue trace was fed into a "digital to analogue converter" after filtering.
The output is mostly low-frequency, naturally, so the best effect would be felt through a "buttkicker". But I don't know how to avoid DC offset with slow-moving signals - my headphones probably hate me now. I tried synching it with the replay, and it sounded quite good. I know it's technically inaccurate to be using suspension travel, so I was surprised when it sounded the way it did.
Now, someone who knows what they're doing, get this working in a game!
- 35,563
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
The output is mostly low-frequency, naturally, so the best effect would be felt through a "buttkicker". But I don't know how to avoid DC offset with slow-moving signals - my headphones probably hate me now. I tried synching it with the replay, and it sounded quite good. I know it's technically inaccurate to be using suspension travel, so I was surprised when it sounded the way it did.
Now, someone who knows what they're doing, get this working in a game!
Tell me, how much money would you need to take a flight from your current location to Tokyo?
- 9,058
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
I like how the Pescarolo Hybrid sounds like its gonna die when started up.
Don't most race cars sound like they are going to die at idle and low rpms?
Edit: Whoops posted this in the wrong thread...is there anyway I can move it to start up sound thread?
Don't most race cars sound like they are going to die at idle and low rpms?
Edit: Whoops posted this in the wrong thread...is there anyway I can move it to start up sound thread?
- 8,725
- 64
- SniperSight
I like how the Pescarolo Hybrid sounds like its gonna die when started up.
Don't most race cars sound like they are going to die at idle and low rpms?
Edit: Whoops posted this in the wrong thread...is there anyway I can move it to start up sound thread?
Ha, thats true. When I was at Le Mans last year all the cars driving down the pit lane were spitting and gurgling and backfiring.....You'd start to wonder if they were gonna make it onto the track
But they did......and then we heard an altogether different set of sounds!!!👍
- 1,945
- United States
- RaceManiacGT1
Having finally got a 5.1 setup for my TV and PS3 playing GT5 takes on a experience. Granted the engine sometimes still sound like a lawn mower, but at least now you can tell where the lawn mower is. And I am more surprised by the environmental sound. The cobble stone road on Rome and highway expansion joint on SSR5 all sets off the bass and the first time I heard it on SSR5 actually I thought some AI car is bump drafting me...
Whats annoying is that it highlights whats lacking in FFB as you don't feel the cobble stone or the expansion joint in the wheel...
Also you don't hear the "other cars" as well as you should I think. I can't pick out the sound of the car next to you when you drive by them. You can't really hear their engine going from front speaker to rear....
Whats annoying is that it highlights whats lacking in FFB as you don't feel the cobble stone or the expansion joint in the wheel...
Also you don't hear the "other cars" as well as you should I think. I can't pick out the sound of the car next to you when you drive by them. You can't really hear their engine going from front speaker to rear....
- 973
- Gadbury / GTP_Gadbury
That's quite amazing. Was also interested to read their page about engine sounds in games: http://www.sonory.org/services-game.html
Examples of different engine types here: http://sonory.org/examples.html
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Ouch, 100+ pages.
Apologies if this has already been mentioned in one of those, I don't have time to sift through the quality comments, but...
Why does the sound not change when you go through a tunnel, or even any high-walled/ceiling based area?
I'm pretty sure it used to in earlier GT editions.
Just seeing the passion among GTP members about the sound of cars, it's clear something is amiss with the audio on GT5, to be honest.
If it wasn't for listening out for the tyre squeal, I'd happily race in silence, the engine noises are that "so-so".
Apologies if this has already been mentioned in one of those, I don't have time to sift through the quality comments, but...
Why does the sound not change when you go through a tunnel, or even any high-walled/ceiling based area?
I'm pretty sure it used to in earlier GT editions.
Just seeing the passion among GTP members about the sound of cars, it's clear something is amiss with the audio on GT5, to be honest.
If it wasn't for listening out for the tyre squeal, I'd happily race in silence, the engine noises are that "so-so".
- 8,725
It is impressive, even though it is all done "offline", the timbre and range of texture is incredible. The "V8 Scooby" has a great intake growl, characteristic of American Muscle - I think that was what impressed me the most, actually, along with the fact that it was so different to their V8 example (which is clearly modeled after a Corvette, and not just due to the picture
)The sounds do change in tunnels, but the ambient reverb is very quiet to begin with, so you probably won't hear it change. Try with a quiet car and loud horn
As for racing in silence, I can't do it. Driving that stupid Prius was a nightmare; what with the engine revs dropping off every time you brake, it was impossible to tell how fast you were going into a curve, which meant reading the speedo every time, which meant possibly compromising your line. Honestly, try racing without sound and see what difference it makes for you. GT's engine sounds might be lack-lustre, but they are at least communicative.
- 1,137
The FGT description states that it is powered by a V12 spinning to 18,500 rpm, while the engine sound doesn't match up at all.
For example, this video shows a 1995 Ferrari 412, with a V12 at 17,500 rpm
PD needs to up the priority on realistic engine soundsThis is how cars should sound in a videogame
I don`t know, PD somehow doesn`t manages to make engines sound powerful... For example, try the charger R/T `70 and use the cockpit view... I have never heard a engine sounding that weak.
Those Ferrari F1 v12 would just scream and roar till the end of the world... My dad was at the `94 italian GP and he said that you could recognize the Ferraris with closed eyes because it was such a blast when those rockets passed you and causing the ground to shake.
- 58
I know i'm probably beating a dead horse here but i just recently got my hands on GT5 and all i can say is i'm extremely disappointed with PD on the sounds of most of the cars. My main gripe is with the V8's in the game, not one of the older muscle car V8's sound the way they should. I mean come on, since when does a 700HP supercharged V8 sound like a Civic with an echo cannon?? My GMC Sierra's 350 V8 with no mufflers and dual exhaust sounds like it has tons more performance and power and it would destroy the high performance V8 driven cars in the game. It seems the Japanese at PD have no clue what a V8 sounds like or even is. Forza 3 definitely hit the nail on the head compared to GT5 sound wise. Even a generic V8 sound would have made it soo much better. And the Lamborghini LP560 has a constant ticking sound (maybe PD decided it should have lifter trouble?) when built to the max. Wish they wouldnt have dropped the ball on this one and ruined my hopes for the game. 
- 3,221
- Maldives
- zedextreme8177
I know i'm probably beating a dead horse here but i just recently got my hands on GT5 and all i can say is i'm extremely disappointed with PD on the sounds of most of the cars. My main gripe is with the V8's in the game, not one of the older muscle car V8's sound the way they should. I mean come on, since when does a 700HP supercharged V8 sound like a Civic with an echo cannon?? My GMC Sierra's 350 V8 with no mufflers and dual exhaust sounds like it has tons more performance and power and it would destroy the high performance V8 driven cars in the game. It seems the Japanese at PD have no clue what a V8 sounds like or even is. Forza 3 definitely hit the nail on the head compared to GT5 sound wise. Even a generic V8 sound would have made it soo much better. And the Lamborghini LP560 has a constant ticking sound (maybe PD decided it should have lifter trouble?) when built to the max. Wish they wouldnt have dropped the ball on this one and ruined my hopes for the game.
This^
I race modded my Z06 yesterday, BIG MISTAKE:tdown:
It sounded like a V6 afterwards, nothing like a heavy V8
I was so disgusted that I sold it and bought a new one, just not worth listening to it at all.
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