- 1,678
- Canada
- TheDrummingKING
After being taught properly in physics today about the Doppler effect and why the sound waves do what they do, I'm very impressed with how well GT5 simulates it! 
GT5 Sound Thread
- Thread starter Marry_Me_GT
- 5,638 comments
- 546,513 views
- 10
- Sventhedog
thanks. you gave me all the info i need. i guess getting gt5 is not a good idea in my case. since 2 things i'm looking for is the engine sounds and the cockpit view, which unfortunately are the 2 things missing from gt5.
Marry_Me_GT
(Banned)
- 180
- United Kingdom
Can I just say guys, thank you for keeping this thread alive for 2 years.
Much love.
Much love.
- 35,562
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
If PD are reading this, I would like to constructively make some suggestions to further improve the car sounds:
Road Cars: These do not need some of the gearwhine thats given to them. The sounds are there, but they are not done improperly. They should be muffled as if the interior has insulation like the real cars do. Its what especially differenciates the Mid-Engined cars as their sit directly behind
the driver.
Race Cars: Some require a major overhaul, others need slight tweaking. For instance, all the NASCAR COTs need the gearwhine to be removed, those engines aren't crate motors and they do not have superchargers at all. Cars, like some of the prototypes meanwhile, need that synthetic sound on them removed. I can hear the V12 in the BMW and the Jaguar, but they appear to be wrapped in what seems to be unnecessary layers. The Peugeot 908 is a unique problem seemingly with anyone that features this car, but GT is the closest to actually having the Diesel sound on it correct. It needs wind buffeting noise, significantly less gearwhine and more Mechanical noise from onboard and from outside it needs more wind noise & more gearwhine.
These are some examples as there are alot but if you are reading this, please take some of this advice. You guys have a great game that still can be the best.
Road Cars: These do not need some of the gearwhine thats given to them. The sounds are there, but they are not done improperly. They should be muffled as if the interior has insulation like the real cars do. Its what especially differenciates the Mid-Engined cars as their sit directly behind
the driver.
Race Cars: Some require a major overhaul, others need slight tweaking. For instance, all the NASCAR COTs need the gearwhine to be removed, those engines aren't crate motors and they do not have superchargers at all. Cars, like some of the prototypes meanwhile, need that synthetic sound on them removed. I can hear the V12 in the BMW and the Jaguar, but they appear to be wrapped in what seems to be unnecessary layers. The Peugeot 908 is a unique problem seemingly with anyone that features this car, but GT is the closest to actually having the Diesel sound on it correct. It needs wind buffeting noise, significantly less gearwhine and more Mechanical noise from onboard and from outside it needs more wind noise & more gearwhine.
These are some examples as there are alot but if you are reading this, please take some of this advice. You guys have a great game that still can be the best.
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- 5,700
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
7.1 set up sounds very good. It sounds very different from my 5.1 it amazes me when I drive with others. The cars I'm racing compared to my car position sounds so authentic it's scary some times. What cars sound like vacuums? I drive a select amount of cars and they sound pretty good.
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shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
I would add:
- Fitting a different exhaust shouldn't change the engine architecture (3 cylinder engines becoming 4 cyl, 8 cyl becoming 6 cyl, etc)
- There's more than just the engine and the exhaust that make noise in a car (no need to make a complete list here, most people get the idea, I guess)
- Fitting a different exhaust shouldn't change the engine architecture (3 cylinder engines becoming 4 cyl, 8 cyl becoming 6 cyl, etc)
- There's more than just the engine and the exhaust that make noise in a car (no need to make a complete list here, most people get the idea, I guess)
- 1,112
- United Kingdom
Exactly, where is the semi-racing flywheel chatter and the carbon fibre drie shaft should make some noise as well.
- 8,725
I'm not sure what you mean about gear whine in normal cars, I don't notice it personally (unless I've upgraded the gearbox, of course) except for in botched gear changes, which is normal.
As for the 908, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with getting it to sound right. The (sound designer's / artist's) techniques are the same and Diesels don't really sound that different to petrols, outside of the noise coming from the engine block, which is heavily insulated in most cases, or simply masked by louder sounds (exhaust) in the case of the 908. Take this comparison:
Of course, the clackety-clack of the Diesel's engine block is still audible in the lower revs, and the petrol / gasoline engine revs a lot higher; then there's the higher boost pressure and compression ratio in the Diesel, but their exhausts still sound very similar at equivalent rpm. Here's a good video showing the masking I was talking about.
Here's two more interesting videos:
I suppose the problem is that people expect Diesels to sound different, when in reality they're doing the same thing, so they actually sound very similar. Interior sounds are a different matter, since the block sound is more obviously transmitted, and that's where the Diesel Le Mans cars will fall down pretty quickly in games, esp. in GT where the "engine" sound is usually a mess of whirring.
I agree with your sentiments of the false sound "detail" on many cars, and the need to focus on aerodynamic and tyre noise, like they did in Prologue.
- 508
- Germany
- Crowood
A Diesel with his limited RPM will not do the exhaust sound like a normal car while driving. A diesel car will not "scream" with modded exhaust like a normal one cause they do not need those high rpms to develop their power. (my own 4 cylinder diesel as well as my dads 6 cylinder diesel car nearly have no exhaust sound at all)
A diesel will always sound deeper and a little muffeld (hear the Audi R18 for ex.)
@Topic
I would love to be able to switch exhaust sounds on the different cars on my own, like the delorean has that beautiul 6 cylinder sound, which would fit so good on the Audi Rs4 avant. The GT40 race car sound would be nice on the RM corvettes etc.
A diesel will always sound deeper and a little muffeld (hear the Audi R18 for ex.)
@Topic
I would love to be able to switch exhaust sounds on the different cars on my own, like the delorean has that beautiul 6 cylinder sound, which would fit so good on the Audi Rs4 avant. The GT40 race car sound would be nice on the RM corvettes etc.
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- 35,562
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
I think I used the wrong word for it for lack of a better one, but there is this kind of whirring you hear in the cockpit on some cars in there stock settings. Its Usually noticible around the higher RPMs.
I'm not sure if it applies also to road cars as I've never been near one or heard one, but the Diesel Prototypes are for the most part, quiet when they fly by and from the cockpit don't really have the kind of main tone like conventional petrol cars. The problem I see 9Or hear)other devs is they don't seem to take into consideration that there isn't a main engine tone to mask gearwhine, block noise and wind so instead just put one synthetic sound as the solution. I'll try to better explain where I'm getting at:
In this you mainly hear the primery engine tone itself, a little gearwhin but nothing from the block or wind noise
Whereas here, there is far lower main engine sound and you can more clearly hear the Gearwhine, the Block and the wind.
PD seem to have all three of these present, just not arranged correctly.
- 8,725
I see what you are saying, although I've not heard any other attempts at the 908 aside from GT5's. I personally don't see why someone would take a different approach to this car, unless they were doing it "wrong" in the first place - all cars would benefit from an approach that best represents the range of sounds coming from this particular car. However, no game properly covers the interior noise, specifically the way in which the block noise and the engine's vibrations interact with the car's structure and invade the cockpit. You have to record from the interior if you're not capturing the block / chassis noise separately, which is difficult to do. This is part of the reason why PGR4's sounds are so good in the interiors.
What you call "main engine sound" seems to me to be intake, as I can't hear the exhaust very well in either video. GT5 doesn't have any intake sounds at all, except for some lumpy artificial detail stuff in the low-frequency range, which you really need a "sub-woofer" for.
Also of note is the difference in sound between the R10 and the 908 in real life. Both cars have subdued exhaust notes, due to the turbos, catalysts and "particulate filters" but the Audi is generally much quieter. Now, the R18 has a cracking intake sound, but still very subdued exhaust note and quieter than the equivalent Peugeot. However, the turbos still make a hell of a noise on all of these Diesels, given the insane boost levels. My opinion is that Audi's cars are deliberately quiet for marketing reasons, especially for places like the US where Diesels aren't as popular.
Compare the R18 here and the 2011 908 here. And the 2010 cars here and here.
As for road cars, Diesels tend to be louder, especially older ones (peak pressures in the cylinders are much higher, and the fuel gives out more energy per unit volume, although Diesel fuel burns more slowly - hence the soot and particle filters). Modern Diesels make use of clever acoustic design in things like the webbing on the (aluminium!) block castings, as well as the insulation materials and their shape under the bonnet / hood etc. so they are much better. But even these deteriorate with age / mileage, and these techniques can be applied to petrol / gasoline cars too. Hence the "sonic marketing" theory.
- 11,949
- Marin County
Griffith.
How do you know all of these things? You must be...at least 176 years old to have acquired all of this knowledge.
How do you know all of these things? You must be...at least 176 years old to have acquired all of this knowledge.
- 5,700
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
LoL he has to be, very smart man. I just drove the Corvette Z06 C5 04 and the sound was just simply amazing my first time driving the car. the 7.1 make the sound sound better to me If you do not have back speakers you are missing out on the exhaust not being behind you sound really good.
- 11,949
- Marin County
The C6Z (with stock exhaust) is also pretty accurate.
- 8,725
Haha, thanks. 
I have a fair bit of free time at the moment, so that probably explains it! Plus, I've been trying to synthesise engine sounds from "first principles" on-and-off for about three years. Still a long way to go...
Today's foray was seven cylinder engines! I wonder what they sound like in race trim
I have a fair bit of free time at the moment, so that probably explains it! Plus, I've been trying to synthesise engine sounds from "first principles" on-and-off for about three years. Still a long way to go...Today's foray was seven cylinder engines! I wonder what they sound like in race trim
- 11,949
- Marin County
Any samples?
shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
How do you synthesize those sounds (in brief)?Haha, thanks.
- 8,725
It's currently, perhaps contradictorily, sample based!
It's very similar to "normal" sampling where there is blending between rpm levels, the difference is the samples are only for a single cylinder.The easy part is sending these samples to a delay line and reading them back at different offsets to give the impression of a multi-cylinder engine, and it's also possible to account for exhaust / intake / block geometry in this way, too.
The tricky part is the samples themselves, since one cylinder is affected by its neighbours etc. However, simply using a noise burst can give the impression of the intended engine type and a bit of filtering yields more palatable results, close to the sounds in Live For Speed.
I am experimenting with proper "physically-simulated" samples, which is proving very difficult, for me. I have to say, I much prefer chasing down various engine configurations and getting them to "work".
I'd prefer not to show anything - it's kind of a personal "just for fun" project right now anyway. The general quality is similar to vanilla LFS, though, but without the benefit of positional audio and other in-game stuff.
You could always try it yourself!
Go here, clear the pattern and set the pattern length to 8 (edit menu). Put a kick in the first, third, sixth and seventh columns and start ramping up the bpm 
Then remove the sixth kick, and put one in the fifth column instead. The first pattern is like a cross-plane four (e.g. '09+ Yamaha R1) and the second like a normal straight four, where the tempo "bpm" is directly engine rpm in both cases. This is, at a basic level, how my synthesiser works!
EDIT: Some more patterns! A third would be like the second, but remove the kick in the seventh column. This is like a Laverda triple, or a four cylinder with a misfire...
Try a Ducati V4 (almost): 1, 5, 6, 8; or a Ford V4: 1, 2, 5, 6I'd love it if more developers took a stab at this approach; it has so much potential, as long as it can be properly optimised.
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CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,344
- United States
I have an update to add to this thread:
Standard Mercedes E55 AMG has the best V8 sounds in the game.
That is all.
Standard Mercedes E55 AMG has the best V8 sounds in the game.
That is all.
It's currently, perhaps contradictorily, sample based!
The easy part is sending these samples to a delay line and reading them back at different offsets to give the impression of a multi-cylinder engine, and it's also possible to account for exhaust / intake / block geometry in this way, too.
The tricky part is the samples themselves, since one cylinder is affected by its neighbours etc. However, simply using a noise burst can give the impression of the intended engine type and a bit of filtering yields more palatable results, close to the sounds in Live For Speed.
I am experimenting with proper "physically-simulated" samples, which is proving very difficult, for me. I have to say, I much prefer chasing down various engine configurations and getting them to "work".
I'd prefer not to show anything - it's kind of a personal "just for fun" project right now anyway. The general quality is similar to vanilla LFS, though, but without the benefit of positional audio and other in-game stuff.
You could always try it yourself!
Then remove the sixth kick, and put one in the fifth column instead. The first pattern is like a cross-plane four (e.g. '09+ Yamaha R1) and the second like a normal straight four, where the tempo "bpm" is directly engine rpm in both cases. This is, at a basic level, how my synthesiser works!
EDIT: Some more patterns! A third would be like the second, but remove the kick in the seventh column. This is like a Laverda triple, or a four cylinder with a misfire...
I'd love it if more developers took a stab at this approach; it has so much potential, as long as it can be properly optimised.
When I was in Games dev, we tried this sort of stuff, biggest problem was (back then with the PS2 and such), it just chewed up too much processing, there was a great little program around about 5-10 years ago which was an engine audio simulation.. you could change all sorts of variables, sounded pretty accurate... But still sort of 'mechanical'.. lacked the 'organicness
'.
- 8,725
When I was in Games dev, we tried this sort of stuff, biggest problem was (back then with the PS2 and such), it just chewed up too much processing, there was a great little program around about 5-10 years ago which was an engine audio simulation.. you could change all sorts of variables, sounded pretty accurate... But still sort of 'mechanical'.. lacked the 'organicness
Not much has changed, then.
I just hope those who have tried it have kept notes, it's mostly trial and error. Once you've distilled the "problem" down to the most important factors, optimisation will be much easier. This kind of work is ill-suited to ordinary CPUs, but would work excellently on SIMD hardware. However, I think even the PS3 would struggle to do this and run a game at the same time.But, it doesn't have to run in real-time. It can be used to generate masses of samples "offline" for use in the normal manner, but with much finer changes in sound according to any mods that might be made. See sonory.
The biggest issue at the moment for me is that I'm using single-threaded software on a multi-core machine...
This program you speak of, it wasn't by any chance "Synth Builder" / "Staccato Engine", was it?
- 107
- b-boy_piki
Sounds really bore the hell out of me. My little brother makes better sounds with his mouth.
- 973
- Gadbury / GTP_Gadbury
Not sure I've tried this car... I might even own it! Will check it out!
By the way, have you heard a standard Jaguar XKR Coupe '99? Wowzas! Sounds great!
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- 8,725
- 11,949
- Marin County
Doesn't sound like a Mercedes V8 to me. Sounds like a generic V8...
Not much has changed, then.
But, it doesn't have to run in real-time. It can be used to generate masses of samples "offline" for use in the normal manner, but with much finer changes in sound according to any mods that might be made. See sonory.
The biggest issue at the moment for me is that I'm using single-threaded software on a multi-core machine...
This program you speak of, it wasn't by any chance "Synth Builder" / "Staccato Engine", was it?
Ah, staccato, that was it!! For the day it sounded pretty good but chewed up enormous amounts of processing, was a good idea though!
- 1,112
- United Kingdom
I watched the top gear episode where they test it before hand and it's exhaust is bang on untill about the last 1000 rpm of the rev range, it does has one problem though the engine block produces too shrill a noise.
- 8,725
It's still available, although you have to "build" it yourself, and there is no way to get hold of activation codes anymore, due to the copyright "owners" shutting down the website.
Not that it matters, as there are newer tools available, although no less fiddly to get working.
It's my belief that you can cut down on the real-time processing requirement simply by getting the initial samples as accurate as possible using offline simulation and hand-tweaking (!). You still get the benefit of the fine-grained response and expressivity of real-time synthesis, but with room for more sampling points across the rev-range.
You can do other cool stuff with this method such as individual cylinders dropping out, or realistic rev-limiter sounds and overrun (just send a shaped noise burst into the exhaust "waveguide") - and it can sound different every time instead of the fatiguing one-shots we often get. Sadly, it's very difficult to get realistic samples to work with in the first place.
Anyway, I should probably shut up about this now!
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