GT5 Sound Thread
- Thread starter Marry_Me_GT
- 5,638 comments
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- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
- 508
- Germany
- Crowood
Jeah as said many times in this thread:
It is the soundsamples in GT5 that are most of the time too "generic", the best soundsystem in the world is not able to change that.
If the developers would allow us players, to change exhausts on race cars, we could seriously improve some of their sounds. (supras for ex sound best with sport exhaust)
It is the soundsamples in GT5 that are most of the time too "generic", the best soundsystem in the world is not able to change that.
If the developers would allow us players, to change exhausts on race cars, we could seriously improve some of their sounds. (supras for ex sound best with sport exhaust)
- 8,725
Curious, the TS020 sounded like this in GT4:
[youtubehd]rXqhiDDMhGM[/youtubehd]
Still wrong, of course, but in GT5 it sounds pretty weird, whereas in GT2-GT4 it actually sounded like a racing car.
Incidentally, now I know why T10 didn't get back to me about the temporal aliasing in their sound engine, they've left it in again for Forza 4.
The LFA vid epitomises everything I dislike about Forza's sound design, at least from the third game onwards; it really is trying to fill the gap left by NFS. Oh well, we can't have everything, I suppose.
Forza's samples, reverted back to the separate engine / intake and exhaust sounds (instead of the statically mixed single source in FM4) and with all the silly effects removed, put into GT5 would be an eye (ear?) opener for most, I think. The biggest difference is the presence of intake sound, as evidenced by the LFA vid. Hearing the intake so prominently from behind the car is still odd, though. Again, compromises.
[youtubehd]rXqhiDDMhGM[/youtubehd]
Still wrong, of course, but in GT5 it sounds pretty weird, whereas in GT2-GT4 it actually sounded like a racing car.
Incidentally, now I know why T10 didn't get back to me about the temporal aliasing in their sound engine, they've left it in again for Forza 4.
The LFA vid epitomises everything I dislike about Forza's sound design, at least from the third game onwards; it really is trying to fill the gap left by NFS. Oh well, we can't have everything, I suppose.
Forza's samples, reverted back to the separate engine / intake and exhaust sounds (instead of the statically mixed single source in FM4) and with all the silly effects removed, put into GT5 would be an eye (ear?) opener for most, I think. The biggest difference is the presence of intake sound, as evidenced by the LFA vid. Hearing the intake so prominently from behind the car is still odd, though. Again, compromises.
- 237
- RANKO_GT_SERBIA
I'm probably the only person who thinks that sound in that video is so damn awful
Don't get me wrong, the sample is good but they merged it so bad that if you close your eyes you would thought that you were listening to some game from Sega Mega Drive
Just listen the downshift from 0:57, that's 16-bit console material right there...
And the problem is, many cars in F4 have this crazy pitch change which totally ruins the good sample. 👎
And one more thing about the replay sounds, in GT5 when a car is going towards the camera you can hear only the engine, and when it passes the camera you can hear the exhaust just like in real life, in F4 there's no difference.
Thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather have a solid sample that has a good pitch change then a great sample with a very bad pitch change.
- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
I'm probably the only person who thinks that sound in that video is so damn awful
Don't get me wrong, the sample is good but they merged it so bad that if you close your eyes you would thought that you were listening to some game from Sega Mega Drive
Just listen the downshift from 0:57, that's 16-bit console material right there...
And the problem is, many cars in F4 have this crazy pitch change which totally ruins the good sample. 👎
And one more thing about the replay sounds, in GT5 when a car is going towards the camera you can hear only the engine, and when it passes the camera you can hear the exhaust just like in real life, in F4 there's no difference.
Thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather have a solid sample that has a good pitch change then a great sample with a very bad pitch change.
Admittedly the down shift is kind of lame. Forza 4 is not quite perfect yet, but at least it seems that they are making steps toward getting there. There are very few race cars in GT5 that actually tell me by the way of my ears that I am driving such a beast. While from what I have heard from fora, at least in terms of the actual sound are more convincing, other technicalities like doppler is something else but again Forza 4 has seen improvements over Fora 3.
As for hearing the exhaust when cars come towards you, I disagree, a 125 Decibel car would be quite audible coming towards you, just that the pitch would be slightly different vs. if the cars was moving away from you.
- 35,559
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
I find that Forza video with the GT-ONE terrible sounding. That sounds nothing like a Turbo-Charged V8 thats in the real one (Skip to 0:28):
Once again, Odd how GT is always the scapegoat in the sound department.
Once again, Odd how GT is always the scapegoat in the sound department.
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- 8,725
I'm probably the only person who thinks that sound in that video is so damn awful
Don't get me wrong, the sample is good but they merged it so bad that if you close your eyes you would thought that you were listening to some game from Sega Mega Drive
Just listen the downshift from 0:57, that's 16-bit console material right there...
And the problem is, many cars in F4 have this crazy pitch change which totally ruins the good sample. 👎
And one more thing about the replay sounds, in GT5 when a car is going towards the camera you can hear only the engine, and when it passes the camera you can hear the exhaust just like in real life, in F4 there's no difference.
Thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather have a solid sample that has a good pitch change then a great sample with a very bad pitch change.
That's the temporal aliasing I was talking about. Basically, the control input that sets the playback "pitch" is not being updated fast enough, so the pitch "steps" whenever the rpm (or Doppler shift, i.e. fly-bys) changes "too quickly" (the reality is the control scheme is too slow, certainly in replays).
As for the intake vs. exhaust, the TS020 was turbo-charged, so the intake sound will be masked greatly more than the exhaust is, and is also heavily affected by the increased air density on boost. With other cars, however, including racing cars, the intake can be as loud or even louder, depending. Many circuits / series mandate maximum noise levels, and the exhaust is usually the first to get the cut. NA rally cars have a superb intake sound, for example - see here for a rally-derived engine in a VW Polo hill-climber. Or, better, here's a car with heavily silenced exhausts, but practically open intake; followed by a proper racing car.
[youtubehd]Mx62obeje0o[/youtubehd] [youtubehd]o3gkCPzF4NY[/youtubehd]
The way sound propagates over small distances means the apparently small difference in distance to the intake source and to the exhaust source actually makes a large difference; plus the sources are actually directional and occluded by the car itself at certain listening angles. Sure, you can still hear the exhaust, but mostly because of environmental reverb, which isn't modeled properly in any game.
- 237
- RANKO_GT_SERBIA
Here's a good example, this car has one of the loudest downshifts I have heard (even louder then the SLS), now listen the exhaust at the 0:40 mark, you could barely hear it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVlgw90Ns7c
Yes, that's probably it, you explained it better, thank you.Griffith500
- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
The merc video illustrates your point very well 👍 But I think no cam will record exactly what your ears hear and I think the exhaust note would be be more audible if I was there to listen.
Either way you do certainly have a point. Forza 4 seems to not count this in, with the exhaust pitch/note being the same from either facing or watching the car from behind.
Forza still has some way to go, again though, it is more convincing of an experience than GT5 in the majority of cases. IMO
- 8,725
Another example: even with the side-exit exhausts the intake still dominates as the car approaches the camera.
[youtubehd]py69jH-cuD4[/youtubehd]
The only thing a camera may not pick up on is the reverb, given the microphones are often directional. That video of the SLS above uses a very good microphone, but it is still fairly directional (note the difference when the car is behind the camera). Despite that, it picks up the reverb just fine, and the stereo imaging (with headphones) is superb, so I don't think that has anything to do with it.
The geometry involved pretty much dictates that the intake will be audible over the exhaust if they are the same volume at source. The SLS shows this very well, despite the exhausts being so close to the intake; although I suspect it's the directionality and (only minimal) occlusion that is helping out the most.
My experiments with different sound sources have shown that you don't need directionality or occlusion to reproduce the intake dominance on approach.
Even F1 cars demonstrate the shift in intake / exhaust dominance, although the intake is nothing like you'd be expecting to hear; onboard shots, up until these fancy blown diffusers at least, were dominated by intake noise, too.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
To be honest, I dislike the sounds in Forza 4 because they're all over the top NFS style. EVERY car sounds like a V8 with a racing muffler, or no muffler. And when you watch a replay of pedestrian level sports cars, all the other cars sound like "vacuum cleaners," while yours roars along drowning out the pack.Damn that is amazing! not shift over the top style not gt5 synthetic just bang on
I'd much rather have the sounds in GT5 as they are than that.
- 508
- Germany
- Crowood
Been watching a lot race videos on youtube the last few days. Sounds would improve, if the surroundings on the tracks would reflect the exhaust noise a bit. That echo effekt is it, what makes racecars scream even more then their "normal" exhaust sound.
It is like driving through a tunnel, just with less echo.
PD is capable of doing this, you can clearly hear it in the small tunnel on the new kart track. Also, anybody noticed a slightly soundimprovement, when you drive through tunnels on the other tracks?
It is like driving through a tunnel, just with less echo.
PD is capable of doing this, you can clearly hear it in the small tunnel on the new kart track. Also, anybody noticed a slightly soundimprovement, when you drive through tunnels on the other tracks?
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
Hmmm NO.
skip to 2.15
skip to 0.44
real life Ferrari Enzo
As you can see (hear) FM4 doesn't sound as loud and powerful as the real machine yet, but what PD made is simply a joke. A Ferrari doesn't sound like vacum cleaner nor it sounds like a weak stock Nissan. Oh and please note you tube compress a lot, the real car is LOUDER.
- 8,725
Thanks for the compliment.
However, I'm no professional and I know very little about the processes behind making a big-budget racing game, so I have no idea why the sound artists and designers (most of whom will have knowledge far in excess of mine) don't do some of the things I talk about.
As for reverb, I happened across some really interesting research, possibly funded by Microsoft (it was certainly in collaboration with them), about dynamic reverb systems (video, paper) which is pretty amazing, given it's based on analytical solutions, but can be made to run in real-time. Something for the next generation (or beyond), perhaps, although it probably requires tweaking for large open areas such as race tracks. (Note they use a partitioned convolution method that allows for long reverb times, so it's just a case of storing the compressed impulse response as pairs of delay times and amplitudes of "peaks", rather than an actual 2+ second audio buffer - theirs is about 100 milliseconds - the FFTs are generated on the fly, and it's all massively "parallelisable")
All sorts of stuff like this is going on in the "background" behind games development, with some insanely clever people working on things that are honestly largely beyond my comprehension (stupid maths), and will hopefully allow a much greater sonically-driven experience in future games. I'm already excited about some of the cool effects we could do with cars; imagine Eiger with realistic environmental reverb
- 1,112
- United Kingdom
After reading Griffith 500 posts he is right altough some of the sounds are quite good on forza it is as if you have you head in the exhaust the entire time, it doesn't change depending on where the camera is and the dopler effect is implemented it just changes pitch which is why it sounds choppy. GT5s dopler effect is amazing and I would rather have that than forzas sounds anyday, because when you get a good sounding car on GT5 the replays are amazing.
The only thing I want fixed which is releastic I want the race exhausts for all premium cars to be revised and I want a sound difference when the cat comes off i.e. more backfire, louder and more grunt!
The only thing I want fixed which is releastic I want the race exhausts for all premium cars to be revised and I want a sound difference when the cat comes off i.e. more backfire, louder and more grunt!
- 249
- Paris
- Sokika
Are you joking HKS racer ?
Why people on the web take the wrong car and tuning car to make this kind of stupid comparaison...
The Enzo in your video from GT5 has the exhaust racing on it...
This is how the Enzo STOCK sound in GT5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFYbnjVQmXY
I'm according to you that FM4 is better than GT5 for this example...
But your comparaison is ...
- 11,949
- Marin County
The Enzo sounds just downright wrong in GT5. It sounds like a flat plane V8 and not a V12.
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
^ Not my fault if when you tune an ENZO in GT5 it doesn't sound like it should. An Enzo tuned should much sound like an FXX. because an FXX is an Enzo tuned. 
PD should just recognize there's something wrong with their sound, instead of wondering why people don't like it.
And NO, a Dolby Surround wont make it sound like that. Yamauchi go to Maranello and hear the real thing. No vacum cleaners I guarantee.
PD should just recognize there's something wrong with their sound, instead of wondering why people don't like it.And NO, a Dolby Surround wont make it sound like that. Yamauchi go to Maranello and hear the real thing. No vacum cleaners I guarantee.
- 8,725
Yup. Bafflingly. (Compare)
^ Not my fault if when you tune an ENZO in GT5 it doesn't sound like it should. An Enzo tuned should much sound like an FXX. because an FXX is an Enzo tuned.
And NO, a Dolby Surround wont make it sound like that. Yamauchi go to Maranello and hear the real thing. No vacum cleaners I guarantee.
I'd personally like the ability to tune the sound myself with different options; I don't want it to sound like an FXX, I want it to sound like a 312 F1 car.
That would be in the realms of more in detail synthesis, though, I suspect. Just being able to tune the silencers etc. would be great, since they're effectively only filters anyway. That would require recording the cars with open manifolds / headers as well as with the full exhaust fitted, which may be problematic.
The only other option is to find modified versions of the cars and use those instead; of course, people's tastes vary.
I own Forza 4 now since nearly three weeks and in the first time I was impressed about the sound. But now after some hours playing I have more and more the impression of an arcade style racer.
The problem with the sound is that all cars sound too much powerful.
Even low powered (in comparison to the supercars) cars like the Citroen DS3, Scirocco R, Golf GTI and so on sound like a V8 in cockpit view with a standard muffler. 👎
Forza misses completely the very high revolutions per minute of the engines. Hear the example of real fly-by sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiDapqaAN9U&feature=related
Forza´s sound is not bad, but it feells not right at all.
GT5 is sometimes better from my pov.
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- 5
- Roma
- skyline280
I've just found this, I don't know if it was already posted.
This is how GT5 really sounds, surely you need a very good sound system.
This is how GT5 really sounds, surely you need a very good sound system.
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- 664
- United Kingdom
- counter345
In my opinion, about half of the cars in the game actually sound like they are recorded. The other half seem to share basic electronically-created tones, such as the Toyota Minolta. The optional exhausts seem to be electronically-produced too, but I don't blame them.
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
Ferrari didn't tune the Enzo to sound like 312 F1. When Ferrari S.p.a. tuned the Enzo they called it FXX and a real FXX sounds like that. Like it or not.
A developer like PD should at least try to simulate the real thing, it's a "Driving Simulator" after all, their words. So it makes no sense saying "I want the car sound like this or that" these cars should sound like in real life, Period. What if someone else say "I want a Corvette to sound like a Nissan Micra", no sense really.
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