GT5 Sound Thread

[Terronium-12]

You certainly have a knack for using the worse examples possible, don't you?

And perhaps the sounds are considered unrealistic because majority of them are unrealistic.

 

[kiladonut]

I can't understand why Gran Turismo's engine sounds are considered unrealistic. Compare these two videos and you'll see that's completely false.

Skip to 1:10 and 2:33 for Gran Turismo 5 Prologue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPo2HATKiQM

In comparison to a real Ferrari California.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPRScXvTrPs

Fixed. Seriously, listen.

I think this sounds night and day different.


Edit-If its any consolation the forza sound sucks too \

 

[PAPPACLART]

I don't think that there is any excuse for poor sounds in GT5! Logistically it is all VERY possible to obtain sound samples of cars; after all PD must get their hands on many of the cars so that they can laser scan them, take photos etc. PD has working relationships with all of the manufactures that have cars featured in the game. I am sure if I was Ferrari, I would want my car represented in the game fully, not only visually but also viscerally with the awesome sound!!

Like any business, we have accounts people doing accounts, Admin people doing Admin and sales people doing sales! I am sure PD is structured like any other business, with Graphics guys dealing with graphics, physics guys dealing with physics, tea boy making tea, and one would assume the sound engineers dealing with sound!! . GT5 has been more than 4 years in the making, so my question is what have the sound guys been doing in all of that time? Extended coffee breaks, throwing sickies? I could on my own, if given top notch sound recording equipment from Sony, a travel card and 4 + years to capture Engine sounds of cars and still would have done a better job than PD. Capturing the sound is the easiest part. As we know, all you need is a car, a dyno and the engine/exhaust note captured from multiple viewpoints that reflect the in-game camera view.

Now arranging dyno time for potentially 1000 cars is a feat, but is possible if you have 4 years to play with, and the finance of a mighty company like Sony. If that fails there are many other ways...

If for instance, Logistically it was not possible, then I am sure with a bit of improvisation, there are many other ways to capture the sound of a car on a dyno that may have otherwise alluded you for what ever reason. Arrive at any Dyno day and you have a numerous selection of cars to record, with owners or dyno operators likely happy to cooperate to some extent.

Alternatively and very simply, over the past 4 + years PD could have arranged multiple dyno days in different locations where they could have invited many car owners/enthusiasts’ to dyno test their cars for free, and perhaps PD (as an incentive) could have had a few engineers on hand to to offer tuning/tips/advice to owners etc.

Also a dyno day like the above would be a great way to sample cars that have aftermarket exhausts, as I am sure as well as standard cars arriving for a dyno run, I am sure you may have others with some vicious aftermarket exhausts with equally vicious notes.

If PD ever had the idea to include real world aftermarket exhaust to buy in game, then it would be quite easy to go and speak to say, Akrapovic. (Whom make exhaust systems for cars and bikes)

Akrapopvic extensively Dyno tune every vehicle that they sell exhausts for, and they dyno tune before the exhaust is fitted and also after, obviously to see power gains etc.

Now would it not be a bright idea to either plant your own sound engineers at Akrapovic factory in Slovenia for a few weeks/months, for a sound sample feast, or simply tell Akrapovic MD that if he hires his own sound people to extensively record the sound of all cars he makes exhausts for, before and after the exhaust systems are fitted, then your Exhaust systems will be featured in a franchise that has already sold 50+ millions, and with the new game likely to sell 10million, I am sure Mr Akrapovics’ ears will spike, and he will likely hire the best sound people to record the fab sound of his Akrapovic exhaust cans/systems/ while they are being run on the dyno!!

Of course, the above does not have to be Akrapovic in Slovenia as Im sure that Japan has enough of its own Exhaust manufactures etc

Now PD really need to get with the times! I can understand many of the shortcomings that GT5 may have had due to perhaps over enthusiastic visions/desires from KY with limited time to achieve, but the sound is probably one of the easier tasks PD has at hand yet it seems to be the least of a priority!!


Corvette, yummy http://www.akrapovic.com/car-exhaust/products/corvette/

Corvette Dyno curve - http://www.akrapovic.com/car-exhaust/products/corvette/model/z06-2009/evolution-73/

 

[Griffith500]

I don't think that there is any excuse for poor sounds in GT5! Logistically it is all VERY possible to obtain sound samples of cars; after all PD must get their hands on many of the cars so that they can laser scan them, take photos etc. PD has working relationships with all of the manufactures that have cars featured in the game. I am sure if I was Ferrari, I would want my car represented in the game fully, not only visually but also viscerally with the awesome sound!!

You've got a point. It's more than just "samples", though. Since when do you hear a car as just "samples" ? Tip: go listen to samples of car engines, as used by games, and you'll see that they do not represent what engines actually do!! An engine is never stationary.

I could on my own, if given top notch sound recording equipment from Sony, a travel card and 4 + years to capture Engine sounds of cars and still would have done a better job than PD.

No, you couldn't.

Capturing the sound is the easiest part.

No, it isn't. An engine is never stationary.

As we know, all you need is a car, a dyno and the engine/exhaust note captured from multiple viewpoints that reflect the in-game camera view.

"Viewpoints" is not the half of it. If you're going to do it properly, you need to isolate the block sound, the sound of the ancillaries, the intake tract, the exhaust pipe, the sound the shell of the car makes as a result of the engine's vibrations (including the sound all the different parts make!) and the sound deadening in the car's interior (impulse response.)

Arrive at any Dyno day and you have a numerous selection of cars to record, with owners or dyno operators likely happy to cooperate to some extent.

The majority of them non-standard, probably badly tuned: useless.

Alternatively and very simply, over the past 4 + years PD could have arranged multiple dyno days in different locations where they could have invited many car owners/enthusiasts’ to dyno test their cars for free, and perhaps PD (as an incentive) could have had a few engineers on hand to to offer tuning/tips/advice to owners etc.

Good idea, except the "tuning tips" part. Stick to the experts that know the specific cars, not experts that know how cars work in general. That's why your local tuner will have their own brand speciality.

If PD ever had the idea to include real world aftermarket exhaust to buy in game, then it would be quite easy to go and speak to say, Akrapovic. (Whom make exhaust systems for cars and bikes)

Akrapopvic extensively Dyno tune every vehicle that they sell exhausts for, and they dyno tune before the exhaust is fitted and also after, obviously to see power gains etc.

Most people would welcome such an addition, although Akrapovic don't really do very much other than cat-back systems, and their dyno results are typical of freer flowing exhausts. What that means is, brand competition aside (huge problems here, if one manufacturer disputes a purported advantage, especially given the controversy around "corrected" dyno figures.) it actually doesn't matter what label is on it, since they're all the same and the sound is dependent on other mods. The labels can be included as a matter of course (look at GT4).

Now PD really need to get with the times! I can understand many of the shortcomings that GT5 may have had due to perhaps over enthusiastic visions/desires from KY with limited time to achieve, but the sound is probably one of the easier tasks PD has at hand yet it seems to be the least of a priority!!

Sound is not easy, believe me, I've tried. It's actually harder than graphics, for instance, because a picture is just a picture; but a sound can sound different if you hear it at different times (start point, end point etc.), alongside different sounds, or even at different volumes on different hardware.

If it were that easy, people wouldn't complain!

EDIT:
Think about this: if someone asked you what Chichester Cathedral looks like, what would you say? How does it differ from Canterbury's?
Now, what if they asked you what a (European) Robin sounds like? And how does it differ to a North American Robin?

The truth is, most people don't really pay that much attention to bird calls, to the point that they can recall it. After a visit to Chichester, though, most people could draw the defining features of its Cathedral! Also note the extraneous noise in the bird song clips, but all the extra rubbish in the cathedral pics don't really get in the way (unless you're a poor photographer...)

 

[Strittan]

Plus the Aston is a race car. There hasn't been a GT Aston race car seen yet.

No but we've seen Super GT race cars, and they sound waaaay off.

Some cars sound better than others, and in Prologue I think some cars sounds ok.

 

[CoolColJ]

The GT500 GTR sounds similar to the real thing, just doesn't have the gear whine, which some cars do have, Nascar and 370z Tuned from the GT Academy Time Trial, so most likely not finished yet

BTW what do you think of SuperCar Challange sounds?
People keep dishing out Shift, Forza 2 and Rfactor as games they think that have good sound, but what about SuperCar Challange, apart from the sameness to the way the gear shifts sound for each car. Clean and well defined, without all the clipping/distortion present in other games mentioned above. Just missing all the road and wind noise

And the race versions of the cars have some gear whine and backfire sounds as well.

 

[Griffith500]

...

BTW what do you think of SuperCar Challange sounds?
People keep dishing out Shift, Forza 2 and Rfactor as games they think that have good sound, but what about SuperCar Challange, apart from the sameness to the way the gear shifts sound for each car. Clean and well defined, without all the clipping/distortion present in other games mentioned above.

Well, it is a refreshing difference, at least as far as the sound samples go, which are of decent quality and capture the sound of the car well enough, without too much added distortion as you rightly said (Biggest culprit: NFS:shift...).

However... there doesn't seem to be a difference in sound from different angles, indicating that there is only one sound source, or that they're non-directional. The reverb is very very odd, like it's in a tube or something, but that might be due to the recording method on the videos.

The gear whine chatter is one of the canned effects that really started to annoy me. At least copy the chatter to the rest of the drivetrain, so that the engine note wobbles with it (as it would) - but they can't, since it's just a sound sample, so it sounds disparate and distracting to the point of severe annoyance!

Then of course there's our usual enemy, low resolution control data for the sounds, e.g. rpm does not update fast enough, so that fast blips (like at the end of the 599 vid) sound very odd, because of the "stepping" that occurs. The doppler shift of cars traveling fast, passing close to the observer, suffers the same effect. (note that GT3 had this problem licked; you could even argue that the original didn't have this problem, but the sound samples were poor anyway )

Supercar Challenge: not bad, not too far behind Forza 3 overall.

 

[danielwhite74]

You certainly have a knack for using the worse examples possible, don't you?

And perhaps the sounds are considered unrealistic because majority of them are unrealistic.

"Worst examples?" Show me a video comparison between a vehicle in Gran Turismo 5 (or, of course, Prologue) and its real-life counterpart that sounds so "unrealistic."

 

[Terronium-12]

"Worst examples?" Show me a video comparison between a vehicle in Gran Turismo 5 (or, of course, Prologue) and its real-life counterpart that sounds so "unrealistic."

That's more then enough right there, but...



*Waits for the inevitable excuses*

 

[danielwhite74]

The only real difference I could hear was a slightly tinny quality to Prologue's sound, most likely due to the video being captured off-screen as opposed to being a direct feed. Far from the manufactured garbage Gran Turismo's engine sounds are claimed to be.

 

[Imari]

That's an excellent example Terronium. The Prologue sample just sounds so dead and lifeless compared to the real world example. The PGR4 sample is impressively close to the real thing. The real world sample is messy but it's a reasonable representation of what an R8 sounds like, and a cleaner version of that sound would be considered great in a game.

It may be a tough job to get good sounds, but I don't think that's really an excuse from a premier driving game that has been in production for this length of time. Perfection is obviously tough without actually modelling how the sounds are produced, but at the very least an improvement is expected at this point.

 

[Terronium-12]

The only real difference I could hear was a slightly tinny quality to Prologue's sound, most likely due to the video being captured off-screen as opposed to being a direct feed. Far from the manufactured garbage Gran Turismo's engine sounds are claimed to be.

You're joking, right? Where in that GT5 video does the R8 sound like it has a V8? Nowhere, that's where.

It sounds like some kind of warped Inline-4.

 

[Slurm]

Good comparisons, Terronium. GT sounds much quieter in that vid so I turned up the volume for that part. In fact I regard GT's on-board sound for the R8 as fairly accurate. Not compared to the Nurb clip you posted, but I've done a LOT of miles in an RS4 with that engine, and it does have a very metallic sound as heard in GT. But it also has the sound you can hear in PGR and the on-board clip there, which is missing in GT. Disregarding the clip from the 'ring, from personal experience I'd say something between the two would be perfect.

From the rear I wouldn't say PGR is strikingly accurate, but it does at least give the impression you're directly behind a machine with exhausts - something GT can only seem to half achieve in some rare cases (tuned elise). As a rule though, there seems to be no directional noise coming from the rear of cars in Gran Turismo. As we know, this is where cars really sing clearly from, but alas, nothing... Some cars promise a lot as they surge towards the camera in a replay, and then... they whizz by like a gust of wind.

p.s. daniel if you think those clips sound the same, you can't hear well enough to debate this! not to mention they're captured off the same tv in the same recording!

 

[the Interceptor]

I'm not going to argue against the pretty weak sound of the Audi R8 in Prologue, but danielwhite still is correct: the sound quality in that Youtube clip is really bad. I don't mind comparisons like this, but you should make damn sure that your data is accurate.

 

[haubi]

the quality of the video doesn't really matter though because you can hear that the tone of the videos are not the same at all. A ferrari with a bad quality video still sounds awesome, just as prologue still sounds crap on the best sound system in the world

 

[whatbrown]

the quality of the video doesn't really matter though because you can hear that the tone of the videos are not the same at all. A ferrari with a bad quality video still sounds awesome, just as prologue still sounds crap on the best sound system in the world

Agreed. You can polish a turd, but it's still a turd.

 

[Terronium-12]

I'm not going to argue against the pretty weak sound of the Audi R8 in Prologue, but danielwhite still is correct: the sound quality in that Youtube clip is really bad. I don't mind comparisons like this, but you should make damn sure that your data is accurate.

I don't know if you're agreeing with me or not, but to say the quality is bad, yet the PGR4 clip still sounds better then Prologue would be ignoring the fact that the sound is still well below par.

Denial is thick in this part of the forum at times.

 

[JDMKING13]

the quality of the video doesn't really matter though because you can hear that the tone of the videos are not the same at all. A ferrari with a bad quality video still sounds awesome, just as prologue still sounds crap on the best sound system in the world

Not! Stop kidding your self I use to play GT5P on my 27 inch Olevia with tv speakers, it sound nowhere the same as my Pioneer 5.1. (optical cord) connection with the large theater setting. That youtube video was garbage. I play the game all the time and it sound nothing like that youtube clip. The problem with the R8 in GT5P is at high RPM is sounds weird other than that with the sub its sounds pretty good.

 

[the Interceptor]

All I'm saying is that you can not terminally judge sound quality in a video whose sound was recorded with an in-cam-microphone, likely of questionable quality, off a stereo which is playing. I have been trying to record sounds of a very high quality stereo system with a high-class-microphone and a studio recording device at the ideal listening position, and I failed miserably. This technique depletes sound quality by a huge margin.

When comparing the beauty of two women, you wouldn't judge one on her wedding day and the other one just having gotten up after a wild party, would you? When a comparison is due, you need to make sure the contenders face the same preconditions, otherwise it's worthless.

And just to make it clear: yes, the sound of the R8 in Prologue is bad, but that doesn't change the above statement.

 

[Sasuki]

All I'm saying is that you can not terminally judge sound quality in a video whose sound was recorded with an in-cam-microphone, likely of questionable quality, off a stereo which is playing. I have been trying to record sounds of a very high quality stereo system with a high-class-microphone and a studio recording device at the ideal listening position, and I failed miserably. This technique depletes sound quality by a huge margin.

When comparing the beauty of two women, you wouldn't judge one on her wedding day and the other one just having gotten up after a wild party, would you? When a comparison is due, you need to make sure the contenders face the same preconditions, otherwise it's worthless.

And just to make it clear: yes, the sound of the R8 in Prologue is bad, but that doesn't change the above statement.

Exactly, this thread is good for feed back, but most of these videos with Prologue VS other games are pretty much useless,

you can not compare a car sound from inside with a car sound from out side, and a lot of mics distort the sound or weakens it.

unlesee some people here get a Pro studio sound mic, records a real car by sitting inside of it and then record the game in (cokpit view) by placing the mic in the middle of your Bose surround sound or some high end surround system in a Soundproofing room
like this one

http://img.diynetwork.com/DIY/2008/11/11/dmcv207-FinishedSoundproofRoom_lg.jpg

 

[Terronium-12]

All I'm saying is that you can not terminally judge sound quality in a video whose sound was recorded with an in-cam-microphone, likely of questionable quality, off a stereo which is playing. I have been trying to record sounds of a very high quality stereo system with a high-class-microphone and a studio recording device at the ideal listening position, and I failed miserably. This technique depletes sound quality by a huge margin.

So, in essence, you're essentially saying that the PGR4 R8 clip sounds even better then what I've presented? I'm not arguing with that, but I hope you see why I specifically pointed that out...

When comparing the beauty of two women, you wouldn't judge one on her wedding day and the other one just having gotten up after a wild party, would you? When a comparison is due, you need to make sure the contenders face the same preconditions, otherwise it's worthless.

Not really a valid comparison as some men prefer the natural look, or bedhead, if you prefer.

I do get what you're saying though.

Not! Stop kidding your self I use to play GT5P on my 27 inch Olevia with tv speakers, it sound nowhere the same as my Pioneer 5.1. (optical cord) connection with the large theater setting. That youtube video was garbage. I play the game all the time and it sound nothing like that youtube clip. The problem with the R8 in GT5P is at high RPM is sounds weird other than that with the sub its sounds pretty good.

I'll say this again, for like the seventh time...yes, the sound quality is better when you're playing in surround. 5.1, or even 7.1 does not unlock "hidden" samples that suddenly makes the car sound better then it actually does. It just defines and separates the sounds, respectively.

 

[the Interceptor]

So, in essence, you're essentially saying that the PGR4 R8 clip sounds even better then what I've presented? I'm not arguing with that, but I hope you see why I specifically pointed that out...

If you tell me which clip you are referring to, I'll be happy to give you my honest opinion on it.

 

[kiladonut]

Terronium-12 wins this round. I don't care how bad the example is, we have all played gt5p as well as other games and if you think the all the cars sound great, youre kidding yourself. And the surround sound argument isn't sound(lawl puns). I played games that sounds great on my TV speakers as well as surround sound, but gt5p is not one of them. That said, Im not expecting the sound to be great because it never has been so its not a deal breaker for me.

 

[Terronium-12]

If you tell me which clip you are referring to, I'll be happy to give you my honest opinion on it.

That one. Unless I've posted another video sometime ago, and forgot about it (which I'm not doubting).

 

[the Interceptor]

Sorry, I completely missed that the PGR4 clip is included in that video (only watched the first half). And yes, regarding that the sound of both games was recorded under the same condition means that the real sound of PGR4 is even better than in this video. I'd be very interested though what was used to playback the sound.

Comparing the two, Prologue does not only suffer from a less bassy (and thus less immersive), more artificial sound, PD also weakened the experience by mixing in more wind and tire noise. in PGR4, the engine sound seems to be the most dominant part, which adds to the overall experience.

One thing though ... while this is one video take, the Prologue sound is considerably lower in volume than PGR4, which somewhat distorts the actual difference. Volume plays a great role in judging sounds. Yet, I have to say that the difference in car sounds between these games is impressive (positively towards PGR4).

 

[Sasuki]

@Terronium-12,

that vid is bad imo

if you look at 1:20 the volume of the game in GT prologue cockpit view is barely heard

That R8 on my TV doesn't sound like that in cokpit view.

as the PGR sound in cokpit is loud.

 

[Terronium-12]

Sorry, I completely missed that the PGR4 clip is included in that video (only watched the first half). And yes, regarding that the sound of both games was recorded under the same condition means that the real sound of PGR4 is even better than in this video. I'd be very interested though what was used to playback the sound.

Comparing the two, Prologue does not only suffer from a less bassy (and thus less immersive), more artificial sound, PD also weakened the experience by mixing in more wind and tire noise. in PGR4, the engine sound seems to be the most dominant part, which adds to the overall experience.

One thing though ... while this is one video take, the Prologue sound is considerably lower in volume than PGR4, which somewhat distorts the actual difference. Volume plays a great role in judging sounds. Yet, I have to say that the difference in car sounds between these games is impressive (positively towards PGR4).

I'd record some of the sounds myself, but all I have is a digital camera. Do I have PGR4? Yeah (I used to own all four of them, in fact. Now I only have 3 and 4). Why I possibly made it sound like I didn't? I just noticed that myself, and I don't know why.

@Sasuki: Yet, none of that changes the fact that PGR still sounds better then Prologue.

 

[chromatic9]

Direct feed


offscreen

Doesn't matter. I can hear how bad it is and what type of sound. Also own the game. Sat in an R8 and see plenty.

The only thing GT5 has but done poorly is the metallic sound.

Here not under load




Listen around the middle third of the video. Shame we can't have something similar to drive around Madrid than the food mixer sound. Audi R8 is quite throaty too with a hint of a metallic sound. GT5P has a weedier extrapolated version of the metallic sound for the whole cars sound.

Play the first video again.

Just hope these are just early builds with placeholders and its still being fine tuned.

I don't want some NFS type sound or some crudely boosted or overlayed mod sound. Just something sounding authentic.

Not saying its easy. PD know what cars sound like. Trying to modulate this in a game that relates to what you're doing is tricky and time consuming but PD should have some decent sounds under load that they can use.

 

[the Interceptor]

Direct feed


offscreen

This is a good comparison of why a directly fed sound is much better than off-screen-recording. Essentially, it was this I was pointing out. The R8 still sounds thin and artificial though...

 

[JosVerstappen]

maybe PD should start playing some other driving games to realize how crappy their cars sound....