GT5 Sound Thread
- Thread starter Marry_Me_GT
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- 4,878
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
GT4 Impreza does sound like an Impreza. Since I do own one, I have an idea of what it sounds like
GT4 - stock 22B, from outside and then various other views
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/coolcolj3/Sound/GT4_22B.mp3
Tuned Impreza
- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
I love forza 3 sounds.You can easily recognize every car to have close to real life sound.Too bad the physics of the game were so arcady.
- 2,523
- South Florida
- Organ-Donor
Listen @ 1:15 
I really hope we can mod our cars to sound somewhat as fierce as that.
Please PD:
I really hope we can mod our cars to sound somewhat as fierce as that.
Please PD:
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- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
GT4 Impreza does sound like an Impreza. Since I do own one, I have an idea of what it sounds like
GT4 - stock 22B, from outside and then various other views
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/coolcolj3/Sound/GT4_22B.mp3
Tuned Impreza
I think there are certain cars from GT4 and GT5P that were indeed stuck on a dyno and recorderd just like forza 3 and sound all the better for it. Generally the Japanese cars tend to sound on average more realistic versus other cars from other countires. maybe a logistics thing.
In GT5P, in Particlar, the Tuned Clio sounds fantastic, not sure if it is the real sound, but it indeed sounds like a powerful car and was pleasing to use. Also, the BNR Skyline sounds pretty much how a tuned skyline should. The Intergra Type R is another car sound sounds decent.
There are also some good examples in GT4, the S2000, many of the Imprezas, the standard Viper/Oreca Viper, Skyine and some of the JGTC cars all sounded pretty good, some realistic some not but it sounded like I was actually driving a powerful car. So it does appeaer that PD do indeed know how to do it!!
I guess with soo many cars, they did well with some, and had to make do with either poor samples or just simply created the sounds with the rest.
Even if GT5P does not ship with the best engine sounds, there is still room for PD to update/add sounds during the many patches I assume the game will get. I think in the end we will have what we want.
- 812
CoolColJ: I agree there are some sounds which are decently made(not greatly though), but some cars out of hundreds, or in this case thousand...that's not a good track record...
pappaclart: I surely hope so! That would be the icing on a delicious cake.
pappaclart: I surely hope so! That would be the icing on a delicious cake.
- 8,725
I'm not diminishing anything except people's apparent short-sightedness.
The Impreza in Prologue doesn't have the unequal-length exhaust manifold, as fitted to Imprezas of old. People in real life "complain" about the loss of the impreza throb on the newer models - although an owner on these forums did comment that the intake is still lumpy, as you'd expect, especially when modified. Trouble is, PD's sound guys don't "do" intake.
The sound engine itself is important and it's doing a lot more than simply placing sounds in a 3D environment. There's the tyre, wind, exhaust and intake tips, turbo plus ancillaries etc. etc. none of which (excluding blow off valve, where audible and squealing) are actually sample-based - the engine is computing it all in real time, as it should be. This is all added detail. I think the engine sound itself also has some"synth"; it's a common technique to put a pure-tone pulse sound under the samples to consolidate the sound and aid with phase alignment of samples. Perhaps this is too heavily mixed in GT, and a proper intake sound would definitely help here. (<-- LOOK a concession that PD isn't perfect!!)
By comparison, Forza's tyre and wind sound are pretty poor, and they don't separate intake and exhaust sounds anyway. And I've already said I don't rate Forza's attempts at "nailing" "pretty much every car" - since in actuality, they don't sound accurate either. That video is a joke, and anybody who thinks that's how those cars sounds in real life is not qualified to comment on sound in general! Take command of your brains, and actually listen to it; rather than trying to pick out similarities - focus equally on the differences instead.
I've said this before, Forza manages, at best, a caricature of the sounds - notice how the S4 sounded like a generic (i.e. Nissan...) V6 when in fact, in real life, it sounds more like a Dino V6? These guys are not doing anything differently to PD, except using tried and true methods that mean they can get "familiar" results - irrespective of how flawed the method is, in terms of final results (all of the sounds have weird artifacts, in addition to those attributable to the "rpm aliasing" and they also whizz a lot more than I would have expected, and it still sounds like the engine isn't surrounded by anything...) That said, the Subaru and the Spyker (until it started moving...) impressed me the most. The Zonda was a laugh.
Saying "Forza is closer" automatically creates the bias in your mind that affects your perception (no, really). If I were to play an ambiguous noise and tell you it was one thing, you would focus in on that sound and pick out the parts that remind you of what I told you it was. At least, until I tell you what it actually is, at which point the previous similarities pale by comparison, since your brain now has a stronger association with the real sound, bolstered by your previous experience (the "oh yeah..." effect). Now that you have the correct reference, you can focus on where each example I gave is different to what you actually heard. Of course, our memory is usually biased / modified to some extent, so you have to listen to the real sounds almost repetitively.
You'll notice, if you do this sort of thing a lot, that after a while you become numb to it, and it "all sounds the same", which leads to the "vision" of that sound deviating from reality - not to mention some odd background fizzing in your ears, a bit like the audio compression on crappy YouTube videos - our inner-ears contain adaptive, active "amplifiers". You have to take a break every now and then and come back to it fresh. In the context of game design, this means constantly flitting between markedly different sounding cars and taking lots of breaks from listening, to rest your ears and associated brain-bits. Could be difficult to keep productivity up that way - much better just to keep plugging away at it and risk the deviation in the artistic vision. (Actually: probably not. Do some resource management, or something, in between.) *1000
Now, you might argue that the thing that really matters is not whether it sounds exactly like the real thing, but rather that it convinces people enough that it does. But this is where my example, above, works in reverse: as soon as you present a sound which is more detailed and more accurate to the real thing (assuming you've actually heard the real thing) then it immediately eclipses any other sound you'd previously held dear.
It's not all about samples, by the way, as both parties quite aptly demonstrate.
---------------
To summarise: Turn10 and PD do things differently. Technically, PD are miles ahead; artistically, both are flawed, but PD seem more anal (suprise!) whilst Turn10 will quite happily bend the sounds to fit their own ideals.
By the way, how many is "some"?
(Not my best post, but if you can battle through the awkward English there are some points in there somewhere...)
The Impreza in Prologue doesn't have the unequal-length exhaust manifold, as fitted to Imprezas of old. People in real life "complain" about the loss of the impreza throb on the newer models - although an owner on these forums did comment that the intake is still lumpy, as you'd expect, especially when modified. Trouble is, PD's sound guys don't "do" intake.
The sound engine itself is important and it's doing a lot more than simply placing sounds in a 3D environment. There's the tyre, wind, exhaust and intake tips, turbo plus ancillaries etc. etc. none of which (excluding blow off valve, where audible and squealing) are actually sample-based - the engine is computing it all in real time, as it should be. This is all added detail. I think the engine sound itself also has some"synth"; it's a common technique to put a pure-tone pulse sound under the samples to consolidate the sound and aid with phase alignment of samples. Perhaps this is too heavily mixed in GT, and a proper intake sound would definitely help here. (<-- LOOK a concession that PD isn't perfect!!)
By comparison, Forza's tyre and wind sound are pretty poor, and they don't separate intake and exhaust sounds anyway. And I've already said I don't rate Forza's attempts at "nailing" "pretty much every car" - since in actuality, they don't sound accurate either. That video is a joke, and anybody who thinks that's how those cars sounds in real life is not qualified to comment on sound in general! Take command of your brains, and actually listen to it; rather than trying to pick out similarities - focus equally on the differences instead.
I've said this before, Forza manages, at best, a caricature of the sounds - notice how the S4 sounded like a generic (i.e. Nissan...) V6 when in fact, in real life, it sounds more like a Dino V6? These guys are not doing anything differently to PD, except using tried and true methods that mean they can get "familiar" results - irrespective of how flawed the method is, in terms of final results (all of the sounds have weird artifacts, in addition to those attributable to the "rpm aliasing" and they also whizz a lot more than I would have expected, and it still sounds like the engine isn't surrounded by anything...) That said, the Subaru and the Spyker (until it started moving...) impressed me the most. The Zonda was a laugh.
Saying "Forza is closer" automatically creates the bias in your mind that affects your perception (no, really). If I were to play an ambiguous noise and tell you it was one thing, you would focus in on that sound and pick out the parts that remind you of what I told you it was. At least, until I tell you what it actually is, at which point the previous similarities pale by comparison, since your brain now has a stronger association with the real sound, bolstered by your previous experience (the "oh yeah..." effect). Now that you have the correct reference, you can focus on where each example I gave is different to what you actually heard. Of course, our memory is usually biased / modified to some extent, so you have to listen to the real sounds almost repetitively.
You'll notice, if you do this sort of thing a lot, that after a while you become numb to it, and it "all sounds the same", which leads to the "vision" of that sound deviating from reality - not to mention some odd background fizzing in your ears, a bit like the audio compression on crappy YouTube videos - our inner-ears contain adaptive, active "amplifiers". You have to take a break every now and then and come back to it fresh. In the context of game design, this means constantly flitting between markedly different sounding cars and taking lots of breaks from listening, to rest your ears and associated brain-bits. Could be difficult to keep productivity up that way - much better just to keep plugging away at it and risk the deviation in the artistic vision. (Actually: probably not. Do some resource management, or something, in between.) *1000
Now, you might argue that the thing that really matters is not whether it sounds exactly like the real thing, but rather that it convinces people enough that it does. But this is where my example, above, works in reverse: as soon as you present a sound which is more detailed and more accurate to the real thing (assuming you've actually heard the real thing) then it immediately eclipses any other sound you'd previously held dear.
It's not all about samples, by the way, as both parties quite aptly demonstrate.
---------------
To summarise: Turn10 and PD do things differently. Technically, PD are miles ahead; artistically, both are flawed, but PD seem more anal (suprise!) whilst Turn10 will quite happily bend the sounds to fit their own ideals.
By the way, how many is "some"?
(Not my best post, but if you can battle through the awkward English there are some points in there somewhere...)
- 8,725
I remember watching a review on the telly that said the "distinctive Subaru throb has gone" - it was also the "hatchback" model - though Subaru do chuck out revision after revision after revision... It's nearly impossible to tell whether the Japanese model in the game is the same as the ones we've seen and heard on our roads.
I actually haven't paid any attention to the WRXs I've seen out and about (I don't like them
) They're very quiet stock anyway - perhaps that's what the reviewer meant?
I actually haven't paid any attention to the WRXs I've seen out and about (I don't like them
) They're very quiet stock anyway - perhaps that's what the reviewer meant?GT5P engine and exhaust notes are embarassingly terrible. from what im hearing on youtube of the GT5 cars its the same deal, fake computer jibber jabber, sounds you would expect from your PS1 or Nintendo.
I love racing, ive already pre ordered the GT5 Collectors Edition. I still have my fingers crossed. How on earth do they sit around for years, and not once think about realistic engine and exhaust sounds?
One night we blindfolded different people and listened to different cars in GT5P what a joke, no one could guess a corvette, viper, 350z ?? complete and total failure.
im still excited about the game, hoping for miracle now in the sound department as the videos im listening to make me want to puke !
Scratch Track Pack DLC, Scratch Car Pack DLC, go back to work and start recording the real engine and exhaust from each car and release them in future DLC.
boo !!
I love racing, ive already pre ordered the GT5 Collectors Edition. I still have my fingers crossed. How on earth do they sit around for years, and not once think about realistic engine and exhaust sounds?
One night we blindfolded different people and listened to different cars in GT5P what a joke, no one could guess a corvette, viper, 350z ?? complete and total failure.
im still excited about the game, hoping for miracle now in the sound department as the videos im listening to make me want to puke !
Scratch Track Pack DLC, Scratch Car Pack DLC, go back to work and start recording the real engine and exhaust from each car and release them in future DLC.
boo !!
- 79
EXACTLY my opinion.
Everyone has these wishlists of advanced and specific features, and yet everyone seems to be ignoring SOUND, which sits right next to graphics as one of the most basic and fundamentally important parts of the game.
I would take realistic sounds over weather, damage, advanced tuning options, livery editor, etc. every single day of the week.
shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
A test that could be arranged would be to choose a car, record some samples in the same conditions from GT5P, Forza3 (or any other competing game) and real life (youtube video for simplicity). Then upload the compilation somewhere without telling or giving any clue to what the car is or what the files have been recorded from exactly (although one of them has to be from Gran Turismo and another one from real life). A blind test, essentially. I bet one could immediately tell from where the sound comes from, or what lacks, how it feels, etc. It should be interesting the see the results from this.
I'll start with a very forgiving one.
Both sound files are from the same car, recorded from the inside.
Also, both have rather degraded quality, to about the same level.
Which one sounds more realistic?
What differences you hear?
Sample A > http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=563464
Sample B > http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=563465
I'll start with a very forgiving one.
Both sound files are from the same car, recorded from the inside.
Also, both have rather degraded quality, to about the same level.
Which one sounds more realistic?
What differences you hear?
Sample A > http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=563464
Sample B > http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=563465
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- 1,252
- Gottcha
To me it sounds like a BMW 135i. And I believe that the sample A is GT5p. How close am I?
Honestly though, regardless of which one is which, the GT5p version sounds pretty close to the other sample.
SrRd RacinG
(Banned)
- 2,948
- SrRd-RacinG
The FM3 video is good.
I like the ZR1 sound. And the LP 670-4 SV is quite accurate.
I like the ZR1 sound. And the LP 670-4 SV is quite accurate.
shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
I have to admit that the Viper video sounds really good. It really gives the impression that the car has loud exhaust when it's passing by. The "high frequency vibration" is well recreated. Unfortunately it's spoiled by tire sounds and other small details. Also, I don't know about sounds from inside the car, I'll have to search some videos.
It really looks like that sound quality between cars is very variable in GT5P. Some cars sound really bad and generic, others, really good, more than in any other racing game.
It really looks like that sound quality between cars is very variable in GT5P. Some cars sound really bad and generic, others, really good, more than in any other racing game.
I'll tell that after more people have tried the test
I don't know if I'm biased because I've made the test, but I'm using a pair of good headphones to hear both samples and while the general tone is there, you can immediately tell that one is not real. There's one fundamental difference that is not recreated by most engine sounds in GT I've heard (well except the viper above, it seems).
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- 1,443
- Conquerer13
The Viper in Forza sounds much better (I know that GT5P one is tuned but I know what the regular one sounds like anyway). It actually has life to it and you can hear it like it's a living, breathing thing. Although that horrid Forza tire screech... And people say GT's tire screech is bad!
- 79
It blows my mind. For a game that boasts itself as "The Real Driving Simulator," which is more important to the simulation of driving... exhaust notes or decals on the side of the car? Sadly, reading the majority of this forum would have you believe the latter.
The excuse of "other games don't have it right either," is garbage. This is Gran Turismo, the supposed king of driving simulators. Would people be content if GT's graphics, physics, or car line up was the same as every other game? Then why is everyone okay with the sound being terrible?
- 28,353
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
- 680
- Chicago, IL USA
- Aaron_Olive
- Aaron Olive
- 4,878
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
All he said the sound processing was more complex in Gt5
- and he is right!
Forza 3's sound engine is just one static sound layer faded in volume to simulate change in distance from the viewer.
There is also no wind and road noise.
And to add to that the Time trial sounded more complex than in GT5
- and he is right!Forza 3's sound engine is just one static sound layer faded in volume to simulate change in distance from the viewer.
There is also no wind and road noise.
And to add to that the Time trial sounded more complex than in GT5
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shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
I didn't hear the linked Forza video yesterday, so I did it right now.
The Forza Viper does appear to sound more rich and full than the GT5P one, however if one is tuned and the other is not it's not really a fair comparison. I previously proposed, in case comparisons are made, to at least choose the same identical car. Then differences would be more clear.
What stands out more however is that GT5P sounds, while seemingly worse, sound more credible in that video. The forza video sounds like somebody was tweaking video sound volume up and down. There's almost no difference in perceived sound whether the car is passing by, or being filmed from the front or the back of it. It gives no sensation of loudness. To me, in this case Forza sounds are inferior.
Maybe using the internal view would have given the opposite impression.
By the way, if we don't compare game sounds to their real-life counterparts we can't say if they are accurate or they only "sound good".
- 1,055
Difficult to judge. 'A' sounds more synthetic like I'm used from GT5P. However 'B' features more sound from the tyres and wind when going faster.
Because of this I'd say 'B' is GT5P.
At least I've got a good excuse should I be wrong: the crappy speaker of my ThinkPad
.
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shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
Difficult to judge. 'A' sounds more synthetic like I'm used from GT5P. However 'B' features more sound from the tyres and wind when you go faster.
Because of this I'd say 'B' is GT5P.
At least I've got a good excuse should I be wrong: the crappy speaker of my ThinkPad
My comment for this is that you should try using a pair of headphones, even cheap ones like portable earbuds. Laptop speakers simply cut out too much from the original sounds.
Differences in processing, yes. The Time Trial is better.CoolColJ
About sounds themselves, both sound relatively bad in my opinion. The Time Trial is too smooth at higher rpm. The car is humming when it should be purring. The exhaust doesn't pierce the air like in the Viper video above (although it's not a tuned 8 litre supercar with open exhausts, it's still a sports car with a relatively loud exhaust).
The Forza 370Z sounds more "fun", not any more accurate than GT5TT.
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