GT6 - Could we have cause to get our money back?

[RodrigoDLL]

PD didn't have a campaign, SCEE/SCEA did. PD didn't whet your appetite, SCEE/SCEA did. PD didn't take your money, SCEE/SCEA did (PD's budget comes not directly from games sales, but from SCE's financing).

If you feel you have been misled as to what's in the game, your quarrel is with the game retailer. If you feel that the retailer was misled as to what's in the game, the retailer's quarrel is with SCEE/SCEA. If you feel that the game isn't good enough, your quarrel is with PD.

*And other local SCE subsidiaries

So lets rephrase the OP question: can we file a class action against our local SCE subsidiary?

I sure think one can try. I am sure it is up to debate how long it is long enough to call the waiting time for "future updates" reasonable. If a lawyer can demonstrate usual industry standard timeframes for updates and also typical usage patterns of games by consumers, there can be a discussion of what is reasonable. Maybe 5 months is still too little, maybe not. It will be up to each lawyer to demonstrate and each judge to accept.

Whether there is ground to include PD or not is totally up to each countries consumer laws anyway...

EDIT: nfscarbon sure has something on the club/league features!

 

[Davoxx]

So lets rephrase the OP question: can we file a class action against our local SCE subsidiary?

I sure think one can try. I am sure it is up to debate how long it is long enough to call the waiting time for "future updates" reasonable. If a lawyer can demonstrate usual industry standard timeframes for updates and also typical usage patterns of games by consumers, there can be a discussion of what is reasonable. Maybe 5 months is still too little, maybe not. It will be up to each lawyer to demonstrate and each judge to accept.

Whether there is ground to include PD or not is totally up to each countries consumer laws anyway...

EDIT: nfscarbon sure has something on the club/league features!

I like your point of view ,Interesting , really !!!

 

[Famine]

My UK release GT6 box has pretty much no information on it regarding what is or isn't in the game. Compared to GT5 the back cover appears empty and unfinished.
However there is one small feature highlighted that is not in the game and could be construed as deceptive and misleading.

PLAYSTATION(r)
NETWORK
.Create your own clubs and thrilling 16 player races.

Now I'm not going to sue them over it, but where can I create a club in GT6? There's not even a web based system like crews in GTAV. There is not a declaration that some features are not available at release or that they are subject to change, so to me that is false advertising, albeit it's a small feature.

Rechecking my 15AE, this does indeed appear, listed within a Playstation Network banner (I say listed... it IS the list)

However, that statement doesn't necessarily indicate a feature within the game itself. It could simply be interpreted as something you could do - we do it here on GTPlanet, for example. Admittedly we're talking lawyerspeak semantics now - but if we're talking of class action lawsuits, this is exactly the kind of crap that will crop up. Hateful, isn't it?


I'll retell the original advice I gave - take it back to the shop. You'll get your money back in full (under SOGA) and either the shops will order fewer GT7s as a result of having too much GT6 stock left or SCE has to buy them back and gets the message more directly. Beats lining the pockets of shysters, doesn't it?

So lets rephrase the OP question: can we file a class action against our local SCE subsidiary?

In the UK, not a chance. In the rest of Europe... maybe - my abilities in various European languages don't extend far enough to check, but SCEE are pretty sharp on this sort of thing so I'd doubt it.

From recollection, US or Canadian game boxes contain something that isn't in the game so yes, it's possible. In Brazil I have no idea, since you got unique versions no-one else got (if you've got a spare Senna edition, please send it over )

Of course a class action lawsuit requires many, many people to sue simultaneously. I'm not sure GT6 sold enough copies to make that viable*...


*Satire

 

[RodrigoDLL]

From recollection, US or Canadian game boxes contain something that isn't in the game so yes, it's possible. In Brazil I have no idea, since you got unique versions no-one else got (if you've got a spare Senna edition, please send it over )

I am almost sure I can try a simplified suit through special courts myself without even getting a lawyer or a group of consumers, to demand Sony to deliver the feature advertised on the box. I'll check that (first need to double check the box back home).

Ps. If you really want the senna signature sent, PM me. They are selling at $25 already here, I think, a paypal and I'll be glad to help.

 

[Spongeinside]

Threads like these make me feel ashamed for the human race... Some peoples stupidity is astonishing.

 

[Rafael F]

Even if we can't do anything for now, it's going to affect hard PD in the future.
All my friends and even some random people I meet in gaming stores, when I mention: "Gran Turismo..." They say: "Oh, Gran Turismo... I don't think I would buy that game, that's boring. Have you heard of Forza???". They all have this same reaction.
Each flaw from PD make people less confident about their game until a point where nobody will care about it.

 

[lancia delta hf]

.

If you think the figurehead of a games development company is a con artist for not yet meeting open-ended target deadlines set by a marketing company he's not part of and never officially confirmed statements from their employees, I can't wait until you experience what utter shysters lawyers can be. Nevertheless, I wish you the very best of fortune instructing your lawyer in your endeavour to get £60 back from PD.

Kaz is the man who stood on stage and told us of all these features so he is the guy i consider the con artist as he is the head of pd, Its their game and they seam in no rush to make the product i bought anywhere near what as good as what they made it out to be, Secondly i have no intention of sueing or getting lawyers involved

PD didn't have a campaign, SCEE/SCEA did. PD didn't whet your appetite, SCEE/SCEA did. PD didn't take your money, SCEE/SCEA did (PD's budget comes not directly from games sales, but from SCE's financing).

As i've stated above it was Kaz who stood on stage and sold the game to me, It was Gran Turismo website that had all of the features for months before the game was released so yes im pretty sure it was Kaz/PD that wet my appetite

If you feel you have been misled as to what's in the game, your quarrel is with the game retailer. If you feel that the retailer was misled as to what's in the game, the retailer's quarrel is with SCEE/SCEA. If you feel that the game isn't good enough, your quarrel is with PD.

So wich retailershould i raise my quarrel with if i bought the digital version?

I have digital and boxed version, In my booklet it says "stay connected to the gt community" under that it says

"with the gt community feature you can stay connected to the world of gran turismo wherever you go via the revamped gran-turismo.com website. Sync your gt profile and you'll be able to create groups, Organise race event, Swap racing tactics in the forums and send personal messages to other drivers."

So is it possible to do all of those things yet? says nothing about futer update in my book, On the back of my box it also say the world is my track, With the hoo har they made about tract creator what am i supposed to assume with that? Missleading marketing is the only way i can take it.

It also say over 1200 cars on the back of my box, There are less than 1200 to my knowledge so a blatant lie. Regardless the damage PD have done to their rep and my faith and support in them is done now and not repairable

 

[Famine]

Kaz is the man who stood on stage and told us of all these features so he is the guy i consider the con artist as he is the head of pd, Its their game and they seam in no rush to make the product i bought anywhere near what as good as what they made it out to be

Development studio heads are often wheeled out by the PR men to promote games. They have a script and, in interviews, they have handlers. The SCE handlers are 'quite fierce' - but we got on well.

But again, everything that GT6 was going to be at release was made perfectly clear a month before release. Everything that GT6 was going to receive by update was made perfectly clear a month before release. Regardless of who else told you what - even if it was GTPlanet - the information on the SCEE UK website is completely accurate.

Secondly i have no intention of sueing or getting lawyers involved

Good for you. It'd be a waste of your time and effort. And money. Lots of money.

So wich retailershould i raise my quarrel with if i bought the digital version?

SCEI, I believe.

I have digital and boxed version, In my booklet it says "stay connected to the gt community" under that it says

"with the gt community feature you can stay connected to the world of gran turismo wherever you go via the revamped gran-turismo.com website. Sync your gt profile and you'll be able to create groups, Organise race event, Swap racing tactics in the forums and send personal messages to other drivers."

So is it possible to do all of those things yet? says nothing about futer update in my book, On the back of my box it also say the world is my track, With the hoo har they made about tract creator what am i supposed to assume with that? Missleading marketing is the only way i can take it.

The booklet question has already been asked and answered on page 1.

Regarding my quote from the booklet, is that is something that should be on the disk. No where on the booklet it says it will be available in a future update. Also version 1.0 had tabs related to this feature, but were removed without further notice.

Indeed. The booklet - being inside a sealed box that you couldn't access until after purchase - can only be regarded as supporting material, not advertising material. The presence of the description and, as you say, the tab in the game indicates a feature that was very latterly removed (presumably between mid September and early December, after the master was sent for duplication and during the v1.01 development) for reasons unknown.

As for the track editor question, GTPlanet carried the news story a MONTH before the game was released that it would be in a future update and the official site corroborates this. What you wish to assume is your own problem.

 

[ironman44321]

Development studio heads are often wheeled out by the PR men to promote games. They have a script and, in interviews, they have handlers. The SCE handlers are 'quite fierce' - but we got on well.

But again, everything that GT6 was going to be at release was made perfectly clear a month before release. Everything that GT6 was going to receive by update was made perfectly clear a month before release. Regardless of who else told you what - even if it was GTPlanet - the information on the SCEE UK website is completely accurate.Good for you. It'd be a waste of your time and effort. And money. Lots of money.SCEI, I believe.The booklet question has already been asked and answered on page 1.

Famine I'd just like to say that I think your level of patience is amazing. I appreciate the lengths you've gone to here to explain the situation without losing your cool/mind.

 

[Famine]

Famine I'd just like to say that I think your level of patience is amazing. I appreciate the lengths you've gone to here to explain the situation without losing your cool/mind.

My mind was lost long, long ago. I find it much easier that way. Giblets mongoose armpit.

 

[spencer7x7]

Why get a refund? Unless you really don't like the game, GT6 is worth the $40(some payed 60 but they most of them got the $60 worth also) it is right now, I've played for over 50 hours now so I can say it's worth it. Also almost everything on the box is in the game already so there's no legal reason to get a refund (yet, I'm not a lawyer so take my word with a grain of salt).

 

[ryzno]

But again, everything that GT6 was going to be at release was made perfectly clear a month before release. Everything that GT6 was going to receive by update was made perfectly clear a month before release.

(Hypothetical)
As a mechanic(me and I am) do you think its okay to say 1 month before I'm done.
Okay, I got your car restored took 3+ years to finish,(after I promised a complete car on said date) but we have to wait for your radio, radiator, and transmission, Its gonna take another year+ before its done. But heres your car for now.

How well do you think that would fly? Id get sued(cant get fired I work for myself ) Either that or I would end up taking a loss of pay, cause of the extra time it took past a said date.(by loss I mean cut of pay not lost jobs(thats another story))(anyone that cares about their business would do that)

I get what you are saying, but some(one(body(thing))), told some huge lies, well before a month, before release. And their retracting of statements a month before should = false advertising/pretence on whoever's part.

I dont remember where I posted it to quote myself, but US has like 50% of what was advertised on the box.

Matchmaking/nope
Messaging in game/nope(via PSN message right now, technically...)
Friend invite in game/nope(same as above)
Add on content/can be debated but I say nope...(I've only had to download the Anniversary cars)
Game play recording/nope
Upload of recorded game play/another nope.

And the only disclaimer on the US box is:

"Drive future automotive designed concept vehicles with Vision Gran Turismo*
(not yelling just how it is on the box...)
(Actual fine print)The * says... "Availability of vehicles may very."

Nothing about the other features/VGT cars being released at a future date. So the people who cant/dont go online got screwed by a box and thats ok?

Regardless of what they said a month before release. They did not fulfill their obligations described on the box or their interviews, before release or the month before release.
That = false advertising, like AT&T and what ever shoe company I mentioned earlier.
And if it doesn't, it's at least deserves false pretense, right?

pre·tense
noun \ˈprē-ˌten(t)s, pri-ˈ\
: a false reason or explanation that is used to hide the real purpose of something

: an act or appearance that looks real but is false

: a claim of having a particular quality, ability, condition, etc.

Attention to number 2&3...

I dont get how you can continue to say there is no case, when a mild class action, can easily be started.
Yes it would take a mass that GTP might not be able to fulfill(petitions), but its a chance to show a company we are tired of their incomplete games*cough GT5 cough*(And they wont finish what they said on the GT5 box in 20 days. So how can we get said content with no servers? Unlike PC you cant get updates from 3rd party sites and use them legally, on a internet connected PS3.)

 

[Famine]

but US has like 50% of what was advertised on the box.

I dont get how you can continue to say there is no case, when a mild class action, can easily be started.

In the UK, not a chance. In the rest of Europe... maybe - my abilities in various European languages don't extend far enough to check, but SCEE are pretty sharp on this sort of thing so I'd doubt it.

From recollection, US or Canadian game boxes contain something that isn't in the game so yes, it's possible. In Brazil I have no idea, since you got unique versions no-one else got (if you've got a spare Senna edition, please send it over )

Of course a class action lawsuit requires many, many people to sue simultaneously. I'm not sure GT6 sold enough copies to make that viable*...

*Satire

I've also made it pretty clear from the start that - particularly since the original question came from a UK member - I'm talking about the UK.

Does the US box really claim "Game play recording" and "Upload of recorded game play"? Only that was confirmed as beyond the PS3's capabilities about 3 years ago.

 

[ryzno]

Touche, I missed that UK part. I was paying attention to the fact Brazil got yet another version of GT6.

Makes me wonder how GT6 will ever get completed, with 5+ versions of a game, I'm assuming with different content, its never going to be completed at the rate they are going.

Done with rant. Love ya PD!

 

[Hypergolem]

The game has been out what - 5 moths? I think people are just impatient. Grow some balls children and stop the whining.


"a class action" - wellcome to the US of A. Makes me as an european laugh..

5 months in the world of electronic entertainment is an eternity...

The only winners in such cases are the lawyers.

Not true... Often the companies get sued with class action lawsuits and they get hurt... Last year I got 2 checks from credit card companies because of some class actions (didnt even know about them) anyways it was a really small amount of money (5 dollars or something like that) but imagine the company who had to pay hundred of thousands of those checks... That hurts them and makes sure that they don't try to screw you too often.

 

[LVracerGT]

I've also made it pretty clear from the start that - particularly since the original question came from a UK member - I'm talking about the UK.

Does the US box really claim "Game play recording" and "Upload of recorded game play"? Only that was confirmed as beyond the PS3's capabilities about 3 years ago.

Yes, the US box does advertise game play recording, as well as in game friend invites.

 

[ryzno]

Does the US box really claim "Game play recording" and "Upload of recorded game play"? Only that was confirmed as beyond the PS3's capabilities about 3 years ago.

Not in those exact words. "Gameplay Recording & Upload"

Also at the top of the fine print its almost impossible to see due to light reflection,but you can read, vehicles may vary.

 

[Famine]

Yes, the US box does advertise game play recording, as well as in game friend invites.

Not in those exact words. "Gameplay Recording & Upload"

Well that's absolute rubbish.

Have at it, I say.

 

[Imari]

Does the US box really claim "Game play recording" and "Upload of recorded game play"? Only that was confirmed as beyond the PS3's capabilities about 3 years ago.

Technically, it's not beyond the PS3's limitations because Shift 2 allowed the player to upload short (10 or 15 second) clips from replays to Youtube. It can and has been done.

Still, you're right that PD confirmed that they could not or would not do it on PS3 some time ago.

 

[Gerarghini]

It's not about the money.

It's about sending a message.

 

[Shirrako]

buying the game for "future content" just doesn't make any sense, i enjoy GT6 and the upcoming content is simply a bonus to an already impressive game.

If you bought the game because of DLC then you made a mistake, you should have waited until the DLC is released and buy the game at a lower price.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

5 months in the world of electronic entertainment is an eternity...

Not true... Often the companies get sued with class action lawsuits and they get hurt... Last year I got 2 checks from credit card companies because of some class actions (didnt even know about them) anyways it was a really small amount of money (5 dollars or something like that) but imagine the company who had to pay hundred of thousands of those checks... That hurts them and makes sure that they don't try to screw you too often.

Yes it does hurt the company and the lawyers are the only winners. In some cases companies will fold or lay off workers after such a suit, they may need to cut services and/or increase prices as well.

IMO these class action suits where the members will end up getting a few dollars in the end should be illegal to file in the first place. Consider I got a product that did not live up to its advertised whatever and in the end I get $4 but the company sold 1 million of them and end up having to pay out about 7 million 3 million of which the lawyer gets $4 we get and then the company also has to pay their own lawyers and court costs.

So like I said the only winners are the lawyers.

 

[Swagger897]

Just cause 2 had upload capabilities to youtube, no matter how long...

Made a few myself..

 

[Griffith500]

Not in those exact words. "Gameplay Recording & Upload"

Also at the top of the fine print its almost impossible to see due to light reflection,but you can read, vehicles may vary.

Heh. SCEA, dude. Didn't they do the same with GT5? Utterly reprehensible.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Sell the game.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I'm still hoping to get leaderboards as part of the community features.
The print on the case I have says

Multiplayer - Leaderboards - Lobbies/Matchmaking
Messaging/Friend Invite in game - Voice Chat - Custom Sountrack
Add On Content - Trophies - Gameplay Recording & Upload

Of those missing that may be considered community features would be the matchmaking, leaderboards, Invites, Upload, all of which would be nice to have but IMO leaderboards are an absolute must have item.

I probably should also say that the temporary time trial ranking boards and License test rankings do not really qualify as leaderboards. They really should take a look at the Forza leaderboard system

 

[bluecharger]

I've also made it pretty clear from the start that - particularly since the original question came from a UK member - I'm talking about the UK.

Does the US box really claim "Game play recording" and "Upload of recorded game play"? Only that was confirmed as beyond the PS3's capabilities about 3 years ago.

I, too, echo kudos to you for your massive patience in exploring and answering the OP's quest/wish/rant. But from a different angle: How about all those who've had their PS3s bite the dust from this game? Does any "not responsible for unintended damages from any specific use" language cover the developer or publisher from fault here?

Between new lasers and whole new PS3s for those too scared to ever think of opening their console, GT6 has GOT to hold some kind of record for console gremlin-making.

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

Don't know about you guys, but honestly I would be completely okay if PD is focusing on GT7 on the PS4 right now rather than GT6. I'm quite happy with the way GT6 is right now, sure more content would be nice but I still like GT6 and the new fresh feel of the game

I might be the only one here though.

 

[ironman44321]

Don't know about you guys, but honestly I would be completely okay if PD is focusing on GT7 on the PS4 right now rather than GT6. I'm quite happy with the way GT6 is right now, sure more content would be nice but I still like GT6 and the new fresh feel of the game

I might be the only one here though.

I...half agree. I'm not unhappy with GT6 as it sits, but I'd be pretty bummed if I had to wait until the next game to get things like the course maker. I think PD should focus on getting the updates for GT6 out asap so that they can then shift there focus to GT7.

Oh, and not to mention GTP would implode of they stopped updating GT6 before getting the rest of the "promised features" into the game. Though I fear you might get a small taste of that for your post.

 

[RACECAR]

So with the box in my hand (NTSC territory, 15th Anniversary Edition), here's what my box says:

- Unlock your racing passion with 1200+ cars on 70+ circuit layouts.

- Drive future Automotive designed concept vehicles with Vision Gran Turismo

- Access and create online events with web based enabled devices

And as far as I can tell:

- All 1200+ cars and 70+ circuit layouts are there

- Vision Gt cars are there, granted only two of them at the moment and both are from Mercedes but they are there.

- Haven't seen this quite yet.



So as far as I can tell, two out of three promised things are there so I don't exactly see anything worth suing for.