GT6 News Discussion

[GTV0819]

Are you referring to a physical or customization for GT 6?

The main physics of the game.

 

[dxm8975]

I hope PD announces stuff related to the photo travel/photo mode aside from the fact that you can take standard cars along in Photo Travel.

Yeah I agree with that. I would love to wish them to add a number of locations available in the section with changes in a sky,(daytime and night condition at the same spot) and some of the expanded feature in taking photos with a camera.

 

[Zuel]

The main physics of the game.

I’m looking forward to see if GT 6 will perform to expectation when it comes to the physical aspect. Will it start to truly touch bases with what all has been asked for. From information that we got from the new aerodynamics, tire, suspensions, chassis models along with being confirmed first hand dealings or video, it does seems GT 6 may be on the path to active that. Though up to until release there may or may not be any more updates to physic model as a whole though some areas may be worked on until release and may a little after release. The new physics as whole with everything that has changed may catch a lot of people of guard, we won’t know until the responses that are posted within the first 72hrs to two weeks. The forms are going to be flooded.

 

[Tenacious D]

IMHO, chicanes have no place on a properly designed race track.

Well... I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. As one or two others have said, Le Mans is less interesting without the chicanes - it's just a long, plain straight in that section. Besides, Gran Turismo isn't exactly a chicane happy game. Rather than chicanes, the fantasy tracks have tight series of turns to my recollection, though I will agree those are way more fun.

But there are plenty of chicaneless tracks in Gran Turismo to enjoy, so it's not like you have few choices in that regard. Plus, you get a more advanced Course Maker to play with!

 

[wicken]

I really hope that they include the Gran Turismo 5 Prologue weather widget tracks in GT6. Those tracks are:

• Brands Hatch - GT6
• Estoril
• Hockenheim - MIA after Auto-Presse said it would feature in GT5.
• Imola
• Jerez
• Magny-Cours
• Monza - GT5, GT6
• Shanghai
• Silverstone - GT6
• Spa-Francorchamps - GT5 DLC, GT6
• Zolder

 

[SuperCobraJet]

IMHO, chicanes have no place on a properly designed race track. I understand why they are used, mainly for safety and at times to slow down the less experienced classes of drivers. But if I had a choice, I'd prefer to never drive on a track with a chicane, they are the least enjoyable aspect of any track for me.

I agree.

Especially a stop and go chicane like at Monza.
IMHO the chicane totally destroys racing there.

The ones at Lemans are at least more tolerable, since there is some element of speed that can be retained if they are negotiated just right.

 

[trustjab]

The chicanes at Monza are for good reason! But they are annoying.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Johnny, is there not a single chicane that you enjoy? Not one? Having driven Mosport, I can tell you, the chicane is fun. you don't like one single chicane? Anywhere?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Johnny, is there not a single chicane that you enjoy? Not one? Having driven Mosport, I can tell you, the chicane is fun. you don't like one single chicane? Anywhere?

None that I can think of. If I go down the list of all my favourite tracks, none of them have chicanes. If I go down the list of tracks I like the least, most or all of them have chicanes.

When did Mosport add a chicane?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

T9+T10 at Mosport. Oh, yeah, that's right! it's been there since it was designed, and it is the best circuit in the world. Bathurst, one of the world's greatest circuits, is comprised of like three or four chicanes in a row (the downhill,) Nürburgring, the second greatest, has the section between Tiergarten and Flugplatz... And you hate chicanes

 

[Johnnypenso]

T9+T10 at Mosport. Oh, yeah, that's right! it's been there since it was designed, and it is the best circuit in the world. Bathurst, one of the world's greatest circuits, is comprised of like three or four chicanes in a row (the downhill,) Nürburgring, the second greatest, has the section between Tiergarten and Flugplatz... And you hate chicanes

T9 and T10 at Mosport is not a chicane, nor is there one at Bathurst or the Nurb. You'd best look up the definition of chicane before throwing your hat into a discussion about it. Nice guy that I am, I'll save you the 3 seconds it'll take to look it up:

chi·cane
SHiˈkān,CHi-/
noun
noun: chicane; plural noun: chicanes

1. An artificial narrowing or turn on a road or auto-racing course.

All of the corners you mentioned are not artificial, they are part of the original course design, an inherent part of the track. Corner 1 at Monza is a chicane, an artificial narrowing of the original course, implemented for safety reasons.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Monza and Le Mans without chicanes are boring as hell.

In Le Mans, particularly, the chicanes add a very interesting technical element to the track. In order to do a good lap, you have to master both.

 

[CodeRedR51]

No-one is saying all tracks should be about high speed cornering. Tsukuba in GT5 doesn't even have chicanes - it's a good track because all the corners flow nicely into each other, and the straights aren't interrupted by clumsy chicanes.

It has the moto-chicane which I have used in my racing leagues. 👍

Monza and Le Mans without chicanes are boring as hell.

In Le Mans, particularly, the chicanes add a very interesting technical element to the track. To do a good lap, you have to master both.

They also add under-braking passing opportunities.

 

[GTV0819]

I’m looking forward to see if GT 6 will perform to expectation when it comes to the physical aspect. Will it start to truly touch bases with what all has been asked for. From information that we got from the new aerodynamics, tire, suspensions, chassis models along with being confirmed first hand dealings or video, it does seems GT 6 may be on the path to active that. Though up to until release there may or may not be any more updates to physic model as a whole though some areas may be worked on until release and may a little after release. The new physics as whole with everything that has changed may catch a lot of people of guard, we won’t know until the responses that are posted within the first 72hrs to two weeks. The forms are going to be flooded.

Not only this is what I'm expecting from the new GT game.

 

[Samus]

T9+T10 at Mosport. Oh, yeah, that's right! it's been there since it was designed, and it is the best circuit in the world. Bathurst, one of the world's greatest circuits, is comprised of like three or four chicanes in a row (the downhill,) Nürburgring, the second greatest, has the section between Tiergarten and Flugplatz... And you hate chicanes

As Johnny has said, none of those are close to being a chicane.

 

[ShiftingGears]

T9+T10 at Mosport. Oh, yeah, that's right! it's been there since it was designed, and it is the best circuit in the world. Bathurst, one of the world's greatest circuits, is comprised of like three or four chicanes in a row (the downhill,) Nürburgring, the second greatest, has the section between Tiergarten and Flugplatz... And you hate chicanes

 

[20B_4ME]

I always thought that a chicane is a series of two or more corners opposing each other in succession (to form a series of corners in the shape of an S) that are/were not previously part of the track layout and are usually added to slow cars down for a reason (safety usually). And if they are permanent, they can still be called a chicane if they can be bypassed somehow.

 

[eran0004]

chi·cane
SHiˈkān,CHi-/
noun
noun: chicane; plural noun: chicanes

1. An artificial narrowing or turn on a road or auto-racing course.

All of the corners you mentioned are not artificial, they are part of the original course design, an inherent part of the track. Corner 1 at Monza is a chicane, an artificial narrowing of the original course, implemented for safety reasons.

Chicanes can be part of an original course design as well. For a lot of old tracks they've been added later on, because the safety work has changed with time. Chicane is simply a term for a specific type of corner that has the purpose of slowing down speeds.

Being "artificial" simply means that it's man-made, rather than a natural occurance. Following that definition, most racetracks are artificial.

 

[05XR8]

I cant wait to make my own championships offline. Just went online for a quick race because I cant race Bathurst at the moment. Nothing has changed. A player is using a car with no downforce is in 1st place, Im in second using a race car with rear downforce(Opera S2000) and another player is using an Opel DTM. Im faster than the road car in turns and did not pass as its tight at the top of the Nur 24H. The Opel pushes through and spears meoff. At the end of the race I suggest, be patient to pass. The Opel guy says touching is normal. Different cars, different drivers. No, fool! All he had to do was wait for straight so Iwould give him room as its a faster car. Geez!

Somebody tell me some good news about this championship creator thingy!!!

 

[Imari]

Being "artificial" simply means that it's man-made, rather than a natural occurance. Following that definition, most racetracks are artificial.

Artificial means not natural. The word natural can have several meanings. In this sense, it means making a turn that is not where the track would naturally go.

The only way a course has chicanes as part of it's original design is if there are multiple layouts of the track, and some include the chicanes and some don't. If the track always goes through those corners and always has gone through those corners, it is not a chicane.

It's not uncommon for people to refer to a quick left/right or right/left corner set as a chicane, but this can be incorrect in some situations.

 

[DingoDile]

Hi friends !
Did PD show this car or not yet ?

 

[eran0004]

Artificial means not natural. The word natural can have several meanings. In this sense, it means making a turn that is not where the track would naturally go.

The only way a course has chicanes as part of it's original design is if there are multiple layouts of the track, and some include the chicanes and some don't. If the track always goes through those corners and always has gone through those corners, it is not a chicane.

It's not uncommon for people to refer to a quick left/right or right/left corner set as a chicane, but this can be incorrect in some situations.

A track can't go anywhere naturally. It's all by design, thus artificial. The designer can chose to keep a section straight, or to insert a chicane, but none of them are more natural than the other. You could call one an "unrestricted design" and the other a "restricted design", I guess, because the idea is to restrict the design for a section where an unrestricted design would be dangerous.

The "unrestricted design" (or "natural") is what the "restricted design" (or "artificial") contrasts against, but that unrestricted design could be real and part of an alternate or historic layout, or entirely fictional and based on a "what if" scenario during the design process. As such it can definitely be part of an original design, although in most cases chicanes has been added later on, as most racetracks are rather old and safety thinking has evolved since their construction.

There's no support for the claim that chicanes can only be added later on, and not be part of an original layout.

Hi friends !
Did PD show this car or not yet ?

No, but it's most likely one of the Vision Gran Turismo concepts.

 

[Johnnypenso]

A track can't go anywhere naturally. It's all by design, thus artificial. The designer can chose to keep a section straight, or to insert a chicane, but none of them are more natural than the other. You could call one an "unrestricted design" and the other a "restricted design", I guess, because the idea is to restrict the design for a section where an unrestricted design would be dangerous.

The "unrestricted design" (or "natural") is what the "restricted design" (or "artificial") contrasts against, but that unrestricted design could be real and part of an alternate or historic layout, or entirely fictional and based on a "what if" scenario during the design process. As such it can definitely be part of an original design, although in most cases chicanes has been added later on, as most racetracks are rather old and safety thinking has evolved since their construction.

There's no support for the claim that chicanes can only be added later on, and not be part of an original layout.

No, but it's most likely one of the Vision Gran Turismo concepts.

Yes, some tracks are now designed with chicanes added on straight sections of track as an optional route, in which case I dislike them too. The exception I made was for the examples given at Bathurst, Mosport, and Nurb, none of which have chicanes. The quick succession of corners in those cases are an inherent part of the track, not something tacked on later to circumvent a long straight and slow cars down. Clear?

 

[Imari]

There's no support for the claim that chicanes can only be added later on, and not be part of an original layout.

Not what I said. I never claimed that. I explained what would have to happen for a legitimate chicane to be part of the original circuit layout. JP explained it also.

 

[Griffith500]

Yes, some tracks are now designed with chicanes added on straight sections of track as an optional route, in which case I dislike them too. The exception I made was for the examples given at Bathurst, Mosport, and Nurb, none of which have chicanes. The quick succession of corners in those cases are an inherent part of the track, not something tacked on later to circumvent a long straight and slow cars down. Clear?

But those corners you mention slow cars down. They could easily (in practical terms) have built a straight there instead. Which is more natural, a corner or a straight?

It's a downright daft definition, and, as I've said, we should be against bad design overall, not a particular label (which is all it is used for: something to be angry at). Obviously the kind of thinking that has produced chicanes has been the exact opposite to what makes a track interesting - that is, safety and security is just plain uninteresting.

It comes down to balancing the risk and the consequence, like most safety engineering. In the case of leaving the track at 200 mph, obviously the consequence is potentially very dire, and that would rather be avoided (reduce risk; i.e. "don't crash"). Trackside modifications like catch fencing (!), gravel traps, now giant car parks etc. reduce the consequence to a degree, but only when they work (e.g., you need functioning tyres and brakes in order for the car parks to be effective).

Since the severity of a crash is inherently linked to the energy expressed in it (converted to a power once you factor in the timescale for that energy transfer from the car), the absolute best way to mitigate the consequence of a crash is to remove that energy, or increase the timescale. The timescale is tied into the track surroundings and other uncontrollable parameters, so the only way, really, is to remove the energy. That means driving more slowly.

Clearly, a driver can decide they're not going to brake for a given corner and that is the worst case scenario for the safety features needed for that corner. In that case, it is easier if the approach to that corner is a lower speed. That doesn't necessarily mean the corner itself has to be slower, just that you need to brake less when you get there. Each car would have a different approach speed, so some of that safety engineering needs to be handled with the cars as much as it is the track. I really dislike the practice of modifying tracks to suit specific cars; if the cars don't work there, change them - that's the point of engineering a vehicle.


Interestingly, this current paradigm in track design of having fast straights linking slow corners goes against that approach speed thing, and is also generally very uninteresting (I think the idea is that you're less likely to crash on a straight, so high speeds there are fine - you still have to slow down for the corner though, which has its own dangers). The longer braking zones, though, are supposed to create better overtaking opportunities, but I think more complex braking zones are a better way to do that either side of the corner, not just on the way in. The way to create complex braking zones is to design compound, or sequences of, corners (complex corners), not individual, simplex corners that just happen to be "linked" by the path of the circuit.

A chicane is usually a sequence of corners. If, instead of designing them as simple "speed bumps", you design them as part of the sequence of corners that came before, and what comes after, and allow for differences in skill and approach to every section of the chicane, you'd have something that is not at all intrusive, but actually complementary in every way whilst still achieving the goal of "slowing the cars down". See: Ascari at Monza, the final few corners at the Nordschleife (Hohenrain Shikane), Les Combes at Spa, Geert Timmer at Assen etc.


Now I want to go over some existing tracks and see if I can modify their boring / frustrating chicanes to be more "interesting"...
I guess we're all budding track designers, one way or another, which would be the main advantage to a full-featured course creator. Although most people would use it to recreate existing courses, its real power would be in creating things that don't exist, but maybe should.

 

[Johnnypenso]

...wall of text explaining the concept of chicanes...

Thanks for the detailed explaination. Let me simplify all the other responses I made about chicanes into 2 separate bullet points...

- I don't care why chicanes exist and what their purpose is.
- I hate chicanes and tend to dislike tracks that have chicanes and that will never change.

 

[tinram]

In that case, High speed ovals are great! Monza and Spa are terrible.

 

[Samus]

I always thought that a chicane is a series of two or more corners opposing each other in succession (to form a series of corners in the shape of an S) that are/were not previously part of the track layout and are usually added to slow cars down for a reason (safety usually). And if they are permanent, they can still be called a chicane if they can be bypassed somehow.

For an S curve to become a chicane the left right needs to be in quick succession.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

In that case, High speed ovals are great! Monza and Spa are terrible.

This. 👍

 

[machschnel]

But those corners you mention slow cars down.

Forgive me, but wouldn't most corners slow cars down?