GT6 Official Car List Impressions/Thoughts
- Thread starter Prototyp3
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- Adelaide
- Neomone
You're right. Under no circumstances should we expect them to have a reasonable selection of modern cars. Like GT1. And GT2. And GT3. And GT4.
GT3 was especially terrible. That tiny car list and all those modern, relevant, everyday cars. It was the most awful game of the whole series.
Can I stop being sarcastic now? They absolutely can make new cars only if they want. Their car list is imbalanced, so at some point their additions are going to have to become imbalanced in the opposite way if they want to correct it.
If they don't and they just want to keep making rovers that's fine too. Whatever.
Strittan
Premium
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- Strittan
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- Sk8er913
That is about 21% of the 123 new cars, not including racecars, though and the history of cars is 127 years long. So if you think about how 79% of cars were made from 1886-2009, and 21% were made from 2010-2013, that will put it into perspective. And I have a big question, how of those 2000s era models are still in production with the same specs. The DB9, That was had the same model in 2010, so shouldn't the '06 DB9 be considered a 10+ too? they still used the same specs?
Also I will state that the Era of Cars I am most interested in is 1990-2006, so they a great job including new models of these, that were missing from GT5.
edit: ... I just counted all the cars 2010-2014, I counted 66 out of 123, and along the way I saw many '09 and '08s that still are in production.
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- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Er... not really. That's some funky math. It's not very representative of GT5/6's ratios anyways, the vast chunk of the 1200 cars in the game are going to be in the 90's and early 2000's. I'd even wager that it'd be the majority of cars in the game.
IIRC, the car was updated slightly in 2008 (source), and further still this year when it effectively replaced the stop-gap Virage. As for "a lot" of those 2000's vehicles; nope. Most anything made in the first half of that decade has been replaced at least once, sometimes twice. Cars introduced in 2007 and 2008 are also mostly on to new generations by now; a quick browse over the GT5 list tells me the only cars that are still essentially identical to their '07 models today are the 135i Coupe (being discontinued at the end of the next model year), and the Miata (sort-of). The R8 just received a facelift, and the TT 3.2 is gone these days (though really, the TTS is still present and accounted for). For the model year after that, only the California and Gallardo remain pretty much true to their 2013 equivalents (the former getting a small bump in power, the latter getting a small bump up the ugly-o-meter).
- 4,101
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- Sk8er913
I just counted all the cars 10-14, I counted 66 out of 123. and along the way I saw many '09 and '08s that still are
Base this on the 2010 model year instead of the 2013 model year please, I'm curious to see how many 2000-2009 cars were identical in 2010.
Er... not really. That's some funky math. It's not very representative of GT5/6's ratios anyways, the vast chunk of the 1200 cars in the game are going to be in the 90's and early 2000's. I'd even wager that it'd be the majority of cars in the game.
IIRC, the car was updated slightly in 2008 (source), and further still this year when it effectively replaced the stop-gap Virage. As for "a lot" of those 2000's vehicles; nope. Most anything made in the first half of that decade has been replaced at least once, sometimes twice. Cars introduced in 2007 and 2008 are also mostly on to new generations by now; a quick browse over the GT5 list tells me the only cars that are still essentially identical to their '07 models today are the 135i Coupe (being discontinued at the end of the next model year), and the Miata (sort-of). The R8 just received a facelift, and the TT 3.2 is gone these days (though really, the TTS is still present and accounted for). For the model year after that, only the California and Gallardo remain pretty much true to their 2013 equivalents (the former getting a small bump in power, the latter getting a small bump up the ugly-o-meter).
Base this on the 2010 model year instead of the 2013 model year please, I'm curious to see how many 2000-2009 cars were identical in 2010.
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- Neomone
Regardless of my personal opinion, GT was built as being a racing game that included a reasonable proportion of "everyday" cars. That was what originally differentiated it from Need for Speed and friends, who tended to focus on supercars and legitimately famous stuff.
This obviously depended somewhat on where you lived, but in the early days of GT if you lived in a marketplace dominated by Japanese cars then you had a really good chance of being able to drive your car. You could take your own car, tune it up and race it. That was a new experience for most people.
This was true up to and including GT4. With GT5 and GT6 they seem to have abandoned this and gone to the NfS model of race cars, hyper cars and classics. Stuff that's famous and amazing, but you're not going to see it on the street on a daily basis. Maybe that's what people want. There's certainly evidence to suggest that.
I'm merely complaining about removing what made GT such a breath of fresh air in the first place. GT1 wasn't massively revolutionary in physics or gameplay. It was revolutionary in bringing the common man's cars to video games. I don't think going away from that is a particularly good idea. I certainly think that if PD want to distinguish their car list that including everyday cars is a better way to do it than including rovers and schwimmwagens.
To be honest, I don't even like modern cars that much. I've never bought a car less than 20 years old, and I'm unlikely to ever buy a new car in real life. But I do think that new cars are important for a game like Gran Turismo, because without them it's not a game like Gran Turismo any more. It's something else.
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Woops, I probably should've clarified the earlier 25 number was for road cars. That's my bad. It also doesn't include the needless duplicates, like two SRT Vipers or Huayra's.
I'm certainly not going over the entire carlist for 9 model years to determine which were still the same in 2010.
I can tell you that of the '07s, a few more would be added to what I said in my last post: the M3 wasn't discontinued yet, nor the IS-F, nor Atenza, and I believe the RX-8 lived another year). The point remains that the 90's, thanks to the endless duplicates, cover a far larger percentage of the car list than any other decade.
- 191
Damn, there's some real angst in this thread. And the angst is unfortunately aimed at fellow members as much as it is about shortcomings in the car list for GT6. That's a real shame, but it is a discussion forum after all, and a multiplicity of opinion is what generates discussion.....
In saying that, everyone here has a right to both criticise the GT6 car list, and defend it if they choose. This isn't North Korea where everyone has to think the same way.
Me? I am inclined to criticise it. I have already shared my thoughts in post #271 but the more I think about it, the more it annoys me.
No-one here can understand Kaz's thinking around how he selects the cars to model for the game. Licensing issues undoubtedly dictate what can and can't ultimately be modelled, but beyond that, do any of us know? Unlike many contributors to this particular thread, I am a fan of historic cars. The inclusion of the Renault R8 Gordini was, in my view, very welcome. Similarly, adding the Alpine A110 and Lancia Stratos as Premium vehicles was great news. Conversely, providing five 2013 Chevrolet SS Nascars has me scratching my head (only because personally I find Nascar as appealing as contracting ebola) - although I understand that it has a massive fan base and that PD can create five cars from one car model. That makes sense from their point of view and I respect that.
The inclusion of 'normal' cars that the average punter can drive and own has been the single most appealing thing about the GT series since I started playing the first one soon after it's release. How good was it driving bread and butter Hondas and Toyotas when NFS offered Ferrari 512TRs, Lamborghini Diablos and Porsche 911s? Subtly, it showed to the gaming and driving enthusiast community that driving, tuning and racing ordinary cars in a computer game could be as much fun as driving exotics in a computer game. Especially as the attention to detail in GT1 (versus its contemporary competition) was so much better. I therefore like that the latest Toyota Vitz is in the game alongside a Lotus Elise - it brings a degree of the 'real world' alongside the fantasy world.
When GT started including historic cars from GT2 (I am thinking of the 1983 Mazda RX-7 GT-Turbo, Ford GT40, Aston Martin DB6, Corvette 427 Stingray, Lancia Stratos, Lotus Europa, Mini Cooper Mk I Rally car, Datsun 240ZG, Nissan Pulsar GTi-R, Nissan Skyline KPGC10 GT-R etc), they set an expectation that the series was more than just driving the latest cars. It brought real depth to their list and to the entire GT experience that GT3 sadly walked away from. Then GT4 came and saved the day and added some incredible new cars. It remains to this day my favourite of the series for how 'complete' it was straight out of the box (and the Nordschleife went a long way toward establishing the title's greatness). But to include vehicles like these below really set the scene for the 'encyclopaedia of cars' approach that I thought Kaz was following:
Ginetta G4 '64
RUF Yellow Bird '87
Nissan Skyline GT-B '67
Lotus Esprit Turbo HC '87
Honda S500 '63
Mercedes-Benz Daimler Patent Motor Carriage 1886
Cizeta V16T '94
BMW McLaren F1 GTR Race Car '97
Mercedes Sauber C9 Race Car '89
Chaparral 2D '67
Dodge Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
Subaru Impreza 22B STi '98
Renault 5 Turbo ’80
Ford RS200 '84
Toyota 7 Race Car '70
DMC DeLorean S2 '04
BMW 2002 Turbo '73
Citroen 2CV Type-A '54
Mazda Cosmo Sport (L10A) ’67
Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Coupe “Gullwing” ’54
Shelby Mustang GT-350R ’65
FPV F6 Typhoon '04
And so on.... Looking back over that list, it covers as astonishing breadth of cars, not including the 'current' road and race vehicles the game included. Add the Nordschleife, Circuit de la Sarthe, Fuji Speedway, Infineon Raceway, Laguna Seca, Suzuka, Twin Ring Motegi and Tsukuba and it was a jaw-dropping title - especially for the PS2!
We don't need to go any further into GT5 as the myriad disappointments have been amply covered in these forums. Needless to say, on release, GT5 wasn't the game many of us thought it should be.
And now GT6's car list is released. There are vexing decisions made about what has been included and what hasn't, and why there is still the Standard/Premium divide. PD is, after all, massively successful and they've had at least two years since the release of GT5 to convert standard models to Premium by now. Yes, I know it takes 6 months to model each car blah blah blah, but seeing that GT is such a moneyspinner for Sony and the tens of millions of copies the GT franchise has shipped, there is no excuse not to afford to employ additional talented developers to create car models for the series.
And so we come to all the cars that could and arguably should be made for GT6. A really thorough way to approach it would be to break down the notable/landmark cars from each decade, separated by country. So the most important/notable/collectible/innovative cars from, say, the 1970s should be identified by country. Many of these may not be able to be recreated due to licensing or other issues (ie. Porsche) but where PD already has an existing license with a specific manufacturer (ie. Bugatti), why can't there then be other notable models from that marque included? The Bugatti Type 35, Atlantique 57S and EB110 are all critical to telling the story of Bugatti and ultimately the history of the automobile. Isn't that Kaz's aim? From the car list we have so far for GT6, I'm not sure anyone knows what Kaz's aim is.....
The BMW E30 M3 has been requested for a long time by GT gamers, but still those requests go unanswered. If the car can't be modelled for whatever reason, it'd be good if Kaz could tweet something saying that his license with BMW excludes that car (or whatever the reason may be). The Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500 is another landmark car not attempted. The 1965 Mustang is yet another (no, I'm not talking the Shelby car but the plain run of the mill Ford product that sold hundreds of thousands/millions). Why no Mk I Mini Cooper? But that's okay - we have a Moon Rover. *sigh* And I haven't even got on to the appalling Experience Points/Star Rating or lack of offline A-spec events, or poor implementation of online features (ease of joining friends online ala Battlefield 3? Ha!) or lack of livery editor that was promised as far back as 2006......
I bought the AUD$300 Signature Edition GT5, and I'll buy whatever the top line of GT6 is. For that sort of outlay, I feel I have every right to voice my concerns about the upcoming game and what Kaz has planned (or doesn't). I also accept that others have every right to be content with the car list and the direction of GT6. However, based on what I've read and seen so far, it's less than what I was hoping. I'll still buy it (maybe that makes me a mug), but I'll also still reserve the right to make constructive criticism if I see it's warranted.
Cheers
In saying that, everyone here has a right to both criticise the GT6 car list, and defend it if they choose. This isn't North Korea where everyone has to think the same way.
Me? I am inclined to criticise it. I have already shared my thoughts in post #271 but the more I think about it, the more it annoys me.
No-one here can understand Kaz's thinking around how he selects the cars to model for the game. Licensing issues undoubtedly dictate what can and can't ultimately be modelled, but beyond that, do any of us know? Unlike many contributors to this particular thread, I am a fan of historic cars. The inclusion of the Renault R8 Gordini was, in my view, very welcome. Similarly, adding the Alpine A110 and Lancia Stratos as Premium vehicles was great news. Conversely, providing five 2013 Chevrolet SS Nascars has me scratching my head (only because personally I find Nascar as appealing as contracting ebola) - although I understand that it has a massive fan base and that PD can create five cars from one car model. That makes sense from their point of view and I respect that.
The inclusion of 'normal' cars that the average punter can drive and own has been the single most appealing thing about the GT series since I started playing the first one soon after it's release. How good was it driving bread and butter Hondas and Toyotas when NFS offered Ferrari 512TRs, Lamborghini Diablos and Porsche 911s? Subtly, it showed to the gaming and driving enthusiast community that driving, tuning and racing ordinary cars in a computer game could be as much fun as driving exotics in a computer game. Especially as the attention to detail in GT1 (versus its contemporary competition) was so much better. I therefore like that the latest Toyota Vitz is in the game alongside a Lotus Elise - it brings a degree of the 'real world' alongside the fantasy world.
When GT started including historic cars from GT2 (I am thinking of the 1983 Mazda RX-7 GT-Turbo, Ford GT40, Aston Martin DB6, Corvette 427 Stingray, Lancia Stratos, Lotus Europa, Mini Cooper Mk I Rally car, Datsun 240ZG, Nissan Pulsar GTi-R, Nissan Skyline KPGC10 GT-R etc), they set an expectation that the series was more than just driving the latest cars. It brought real depth to their list and to the entire GT experience that GT3 sadly walked away from. Then GT4 came and saved the day and added some incredible new cars. It remains to this day my favourite of the series for how 'complete' it was straight out of the box (and the Nordschleife went a long way toward establishing the title's greatness). But to include vehicles like these below really set the scene for the 'encyclopaedia of cars' approach that I thought Kaz was following:
Ginetta G4 '64
RUF Yellow Bird '87
Nissan Skyline GT-B '67
Lotus Esprit Turbo HC '87
Honda S500 '63
Mercedes-Benz Daimler Patent Motor Carriage 1886
Cizeta V16T '94
BMW McLaren F1 GTR Race Car '97
Mercedes Sauber C9 Race Car '89
Chaparral 2D '67
Dodge Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
Subaru Impreza 22B STi '98
Renault 5 Turbo ’80
Ford RS200 '84
Toyota 7 Race Car '70
DMC DeLorean S2 '04
BMW 2002 Turbo '73
Citroen 2CV Type-A '54
Mazda Cosmo Sport (L10A) ’67
Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Coupe “Gullwing” ’54
Shelby Mustang GT-350R ’65
FPV F6 Typhoon '04
And so on.... Looking back over that list, it covers as astonishing breadth of cars, not including the 'current' road and race vehicles the game included. Add the Nordschleife, Circuit de la Sarthe, Fuji Speedway, Infineon Raceway, Laguna Seca, Suzuka, Twin Ring Motegi and Tsukuba and it was a jaw-dropping title - especially for the PS2!
We don't need to go any further into GT5 as the myriad disappointments have been amply covered in these forums. Needless to say, on release, GT5 wasn't the game many of us thought it should be.
And now GT6's car list is released. There are vexing decisions made about what has been included and what hasn't, and why there is still the Standard/Premium divide. PD is, after all, massively successful and they've had at least two years since the release of GT5 to convert standard models to Premium by now. Yes, I know it takes 6 months to model each car blah blah blah, but seeing that GT is such a moneyspinner for Sony and the tens of millions of copies the GT franchise has shipped, there is no excuse not to afford to employ additional talented developers to create car models for the series.
And so we come to all the cars that could and arguably should be made for GT6. A really thorough way to approach it would be to break down the notable/landmark cars from each decade, separated by country. So the most important/notable/collectible/innovative cars from, say, the 1970s should be identified by country. Many of these may not be able to be recreated due to licensing or other issues (ie. Porsche) but where PD already has an existing license with a specific manufacturer (ie. Bugatti), why can't there then be other notable models from that marque included? The Bugatti Type 35, Atlantique 57S and EB110 are all critical to telling the story of Bugatti and ultimately the history of the automobile. Isn't that Kaz's aim? From the car list we have so far for GT6, I'm not sure anyone knows what Kaz's aim is.....
The BMW E30 M3 has been requested for a long time by GT gamers, but still those requests go unanswered. If the car can't be modelled for whatever reason, it'd be good if Kaz could tweet something saying that his license with BMW excludes that car (or whatever the reason may be). The Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500 is another landmark car not attempted. The 1965 Mustang is yet another (no, I'm not talking the Shelby car but the plain run of the mill Ford product that sold hundreds of thousands/millions). Why no Mk I Mini Cooper? But that's okay - we have a Moon Rover. *sigh* And I haven't even got on to the appalling Experience Points/Star Rating or lack of offline A-spec events, or poor implementation of online features (ease of joining friends online ala Battlefield 3? Ha!) or lack of livery editor that was promised as far back as 2006......
I bought the AUD$300 Signature Edition GT5, and I'll buy whatever the top line of GT6 is. For that sort of outlay, I feel I have every right to voice my concerns about the upcoming game and what Kaz has planned (or doesn't). I also accept that others have every right to be content with the car list and the direction of GT6. However, based on what I've read and seen so far, it's less than what I was hoping. I'll still buy it (maybe that makes me a mug), but I'll also still reserve the right to make constructive criticism if I see it's warranted.
Cheers
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- 4,101
- California
- Sk8er913
I like the above post. Even if you do not like some or most new cars, there is somebody else that wasn't it to be added. I am very happy with the new car list.
I believe his aim was to fill in the gaps of the GT5 car list. Using Lamborghini from GT5 as an example, we had the standard 70s and 80s models and the premium 00s and 10s, and a standard race car.
In GT6 the holes were filled, the hole left with the missing Diablo was filled and we got a premium race car, and the historic cars were restored to premium quality.
I believe his aim was to fill in the gaps of the GT5 car list. Using Lamborghini from GT5 as an example, we had the standard 70s and 80s models and the premium 00s and 10s, and a standard race car.
In GT6 the holes were filled, the hole left with the missing Diablo was filled and we got a premium race car, and the historic cars were restored to premium quality.
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- 51,226
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Games wont satify everyone who play them. The most gaming have improved are the graphics. Regarding GT, I feel they are good enough. Main problems are the sound and physics. That's being sorted. True, it seems like more effort has been put into the car list and the vitals having suffered. But people would be up in arms if GT6 graphics, sounds, physics were perfect and we only had, after 15 years, 200 cars total to close out the PS3.
Makes me think abput GT5P. I was happy if those were the only cars in the final game. I wouldnt have questiomed why cars were left out. Id take it as a new era of GT and have my fun. Thats how this GT should be. We know too much. We expect too much? PD's written and verbal words are being taken as law until something's changed without notifocation and approval.
Sure, Im still waiting for the E30 M3, fully rendered Supra RZ, new V8 Supercar(s) mbut, until I can create my own car and code to hack the game and put it in my virtual garage, ill keep spending my money on this series and enjoy.
Makes me think abput GT5P. I was happy if those were the only cars in the final game. I wouldnt have questiomed why cars were left out. Id take it as a new era of GT and have my fun. Thats how this GT should be. We know too much. We expect too much? PD's written and verbal words are being taken as law until something's changed without notifocation and approval.
Sure, Im still waiting for the E30 M3, fully rendered Supra RZ, new V8 Supercar(s) mbut, until I can create my own car and code to hack the game and put it in my virtual garage, ill keep spending my money on this series and enjoy.
GT6 will still be a good game i'm sure of it, but I'm not liking the way it lacks polishing and the way it barely evolves.
GT5 was about a brand new physics engine that took sooooo long to code that it was basically the only good point about the game when it came out.. it wasn't polished (at all), it had a weird mix of PS3 graphics mixed with little left overs of PS2 graphics.
GT6 is around the corner and what have they done, they tweaked the physics engine a little more (in a good way). They added some new cars and never seen before concept cars exclusive to the game. But is it with exclusive concept cars that you make a complete game/a game that is worth calling Gran Turismo 6? They have to offer new things that adds to the gameplay that were not in the previous games of the series.
We could compare to other series and say that Call of Duty is always the same content with a different packaging so what is so bad that GT6 has not so much to offer but the same that has always worked?
To me the Gran Turismo series has so much potential to become a great thing that could potentially revolutionize the console racing game that I get frustated. Frustated to see them working on futile details that seems to take forever to make instead of working on stuff that could make the game better by leaps.
They need to reduce the number of cars. There's too much of the same. Get less cars, get actual believable sounds for these cars, allow the players to customize them as they want (we've seen with the hacks of the cars in GT5 that players want more customizable cars, just not that extreme). Having more customizable cars means that the players can have their Miatas look unique even if there would only 5-10 in the game instead of 30. Same goes with all the "duplicates" of the game.
Quantity does not make the game. Anyways there's always a few bunch a cars that stands out by their handling or whatever and that people tend to use more.
And yes, the car-list needs more new cars, where's Koenigsegg just to name one that is missing.
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- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
I don't want the thread to go on another subject so i'll be short. It's a re-work of the GT5 physics engine. Not something they started from nothing.
- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
- 205
- Rodés, Occitània
- AnPrionsaBeag
OK lets summarise. People have posted wondering why PD haven't modeled the P1, some are very disappointed. The simple fact is none us know why but for some reason people have decided to jump in and defend PD by claiming they couldn't model it, as T10 had exclusive rights. Trouble is nobody has any evidence of this, hence the assumptions. For all we know it wasn't modeled because Kaz hates it, there is just as much proof.
It is rather amusing that whenever someone questions why PD did or didn't do something another person will always be there to try and create a defence for them when a genuine reason isn't known.
Do you believe everything you're told? It's certainly rather curious they they supposedly built a new engine from scratch which coincidentally still has the exact same issues as the last one, such as no torque steer.[/quote]
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McLaren
Premium
- 45,523
- Texas
No, there's not. All the evidence available points to T10 having the first rights to it due to McLaren's partnership, hence why so many people jump to the conclusion. Look at the facts: McLaren announces partnership with T10 & the P1 becomes the Halo car for the game. The P1 is on display at major events featuring Forza 5. McLaren offers 1 fan the chance to ride in a P1.
If there is "just as much proof" as any of that, that would lead to Kaz hating it or anything else, how about backing it up instead of saying everyone is wrong.
Because none of that proves exclusiveness. SMS just announced a partnership with McLaren and it includes the P1, is is than an exclusive partnership as well? No. When cars are exclusive the companies tend to promote it as such, it's half the point. As it is T10 have not once suggested or promoted that F5 is the only place to drive a P1, even for a limited time.
But you're saying they built it from scratch. Why would you build something from scratch which still has the same issues as the current one? That's a waste of time, you're at the same position you were before starting from scratch.
- 8,016
- GTP_Royalton
- 350
- Holbrooklyn
- bigblockprius666
Polyphony Digital doesn't give us the latest & greatest supercars because frankly, we don't really need them. I would much rather drive some of the rare & custom classics that only Polyphony Digital can offer. Name another racing game that has a lisenced Oldsmobile Toronado, Or a Plymouth AAR 'Cuda? Not to mention all of the Pebble Beach winners that aren't available in any other games. I know everyone has there own opinion & that's fine with me. But I am very satisfied with the GT6 car list, even though the Deltawing probably won't make it on release. And for all of those saying that Forza & the other various PC sims offer all there cars from day one, your wrong. Remember the Ruf CTR Yellowbird? The car we had since GT2 at releae (exect for it's absence in GT3)? In Forza 5, If you want that amazing piece of automotive history, you have to purchase the VIP pack. I think that classics like that should be included at release, & leave the new supercars for the dlc.
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