GT6 Performance Analysis and tech details.

[Zevious Z]

Yea I figured that.They should use vimeo for these videos instead of youtube.But like I said before I dont really notice frame drops above 30fps because im so use to playing games at 30fps I guess.People were saying it dropped sub 20fps which brought me to think people are having different experiences.But now I see they are just overreacting.

ummmm yeah, riiiiight.

First of all, as was pointed out already, this comparison was at a track where the frame rate issue isn't really at its worst. Silverstone is worse. Secondly, "not noticing frame drops over 30fps" is a meaningless statement. When the frame rate drops from 60 to 40 fps (or worse at silvy) its noticeable. Simple as that. If its doing it constantly up and down it becomes a real problem. Add to that the noted stuttering caused by dropped frames to eliminate screen tears and you've got an even bigger issue. Then add the remaining 10 AI cars and you can count on another 5-10 fps loss. This is a problem. You can ignore it if you want, but that doesn't make it go away...

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

Nobody is over-reacting. There are framerate and aliasing issues in the demo, we've noticed them and commented on them, they may or may not carry over into the final game. That's about all anyone is saying.

I share your frustration as these people are present in the sound threads as well. In particular there are people in denial everywhere in GTP. Its almost like they will not accept anything other than the fantasy of everything being perfect even if you present them the facts.

 

[Samus]

How much are you being paid?

But yea, this is just the demo, and some of them are definitely overreaction while saying "we're" in denial as if every one of "us" have said that there are NO problems graphically. Physics will be improved less than the graphics in the final version though.



Can someone honestly make a supposition on how this is possible?

I already told you, the 2012 Academy game had a lot more than one track. At least five.

 

[Kobooi]

A. PD has drastically optimized the code or will be able to do so in the next 2 months..
B. PD has to postpone release date, getting more time to do the optimizations.
C. PD reverts back to the GT5 graphics engine.
D. PD releases it as is.

I give option A a low chance.
Option C gives "This is just a demo, it's not representative for the final product" a new meaning.

Did Kaz overreach once again?

 

[Traviizter]

I haven't played a lot of the demo, so I can only say that I haven't noticed any frame drops so far. I may play more later so I can see what you guys are talking about.
For now though I feel like PD need to get their act together and sort this out.
In a perfect world, they can't release the game as it is and be happy with the final outcome. Alas, the staff at PD don't really seem to care that much. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe the full game has better optimizations, but really I don't think so. After all, this 'demo' is for GT Academy and so they'd be trying to make sure all times are valid with the minimum amount of frame drops and other things to invalidate times (leaving tire physics aside).
Trying to be hopeful.

 

[Lord Protector]

GT6 is gonna run at 60fps imo, cause why would they implement adaptive teselation then if it just screwed fps even more. On the other, I highly doubt that GT6 will run at 60 when driving sarthe in dusk, rain and 16 cars, not to mention 3D. Under these settings, GT5 runs at about 15fps in some areas (the corner before the straight).

 

[CrazyBrazilian]

DEMO means DEMONSTRATION.

Just saying.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

ummmm yeah, riiiiight.

First of all, as was pointed out already, this comparison was at a track where the frame rate issue isn't really at its worst. Silverstone is worse. Secondly, "not noticing frame drops over 30fps" is a meaningless statement. When the frame rate drops from 60 to 40 fps (or worse at silvy) its noticeable. Simple as that. If its doing it constantly up and down it becomes a real problem. Add to that the noted stuttering caused by dropped frames to eliminate screen tears and you've got an even bigger issue. Then add the remaining 10 AI cars and you can count on another 5-10 fps loss. This is a problem. You can ignore it if you want, but that doesn't make it go away...

You should probably re-read what I typed.I never stated there isnt a frame rate drop.I said I didnt notice it and or other people have different experiences.You cant tell me what I notice.How exactly am I ignoring the issue ?You should re-read what I typed dude.

 

[SavageEvil]

Nice thread, this is GT Academy 2013 and not GT6 demo. No where does it state that at all, it simply states GT Academy 2013 powered by GT6. GT Academy 2012 was powered by GT5 and had something solid to build off of hence it had more courses and other things in it. Cut it and print it, it's done. This is more about GT Academy than GT6, and even as GT Academy 2013 this short is a bit lacking in lots of places then it's be expected since it's built of a different engine and takes advantage of advanced techniques not employed in GT5. So hold your horses and wait for the game to be reviewed in a more complete state than this.

Moving on anyone else notice that the tire temperatures actually react somewhat realistically. I was running the course and started drifting and watched as the rear tires stayed yellow and the fronts cooled to a yellowish blue. I decided to sit around and see how long it took to cool off, and I sat there a few minutes and the rears stayed yellow the whole time the fronts got a bit more blue than yellow. Sounds like we have active temperatures that also seem to work with the ambient air temperature of the course. Tell you something incredible, drifting feels incredible in the Z and the smoke effects are better although it's a bit dark, hope that the filter they use is removed; too dark.

I expect tighter physics and a lot of tightening up of frame rates and at least a better paint shop and livery editor to go with all the new stuff. I will still get this because the physics alone are so impressive and I know that isn't the only updated thing. I'll search the demo some more to see what else I can find that looks interesting.

 

[Zevious Z]

You should probably re-read what I typed.I never stated there isnt a frame rate drop.I said I didnt notice it and or other people have different experiences.You cant tell me what I notice.How exactly am I ignoring the issue ?You should re-read what I typed dude.

"But now I see they are just over-reacting."

 

[Sum1s2pid]

Intersting read.

The dropped frames in 1080p is worrisome, especially with less than half of the cars on track as GT5, and none of the crowds, etc. Wondering what improvements PD can make to the game, if at all, and if they're going to knock the resolution back down to 1280x1080 for the final release to eek out a little extra something.

I'm still going to try and remain positive, but numbers don't lie. I'll play at 720p if I abolutely have to, but the extra vertical resolution of GT5 on a 52" display has spoiled me.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Yeah I just saw the comparisons of both GT5 and GT6, and GT6 does have frame-rate issues. That isn't good at all and I hope PD solves it, really. :\

I noticed in 720p the fps wasn't as bad as the 1080p fps.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

Yeah I just saw the comparisons of both GT5 and GT6, and GT6 does have frame-rate issues. That isn't good at all and I hope PD solves it, really. :\

I noticed in 720p the fps wasn't as bad as the 1080p fps.

All we can now do is hope. Or wait and see is PD releases the demo that we all saw at E3, at Goodwood.

 

[TokoTurismo]

All we can now do is hope. Or wait and see is PD releases the demo that we all saw at E3, at Goodwood.

I hope they do. If it drops like 60fps to 58fps its not to bad imo, but nothing lower than that. Got my fingers crossed the fps is somewhat fixed at Goodwood at least. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

Your bias and quickness to defend the unknown, but also shows a committed GT fan.

A lot of people are also on the other side, showing a distinct bias to condemn GT6 when the game hasn't been released and no one knows. Condemn the demo all you want, point is, it's a demo, doesn't mean the game will be that way. It might, it might not, but no one knows. To draw any conclusions one way or the other is foolish at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if they found a reason not to include the highly touted new physics model even at this late stage.

 

[Cosbuster]

All we can now do is hope. Or wait and see is PD releases the demo that we all saw at E3, at Goodwood.

Many reporters mentioned that the demo also dropped frames.

 

[PepeMickey]

This is terrible, running at 720p means less framerate drops but insane and I mean INSANE aliasing and jagged edges with blurry textures at least on a 60 inch TV and running in 1080p means a sharper look with less aliasing but still very noticeable and INSANE framerate drops.

No matter which mode you choose, this game isn't pretty at all, it's more like a headache and no I don't like the new lightning engine at all, it's like trying to be Forza 4 but fails hard at it, with flickering shadows and the issues mentioned above it just doesn't work.

If I was PD/Sony I would cancel the proyect right now and announce GT6 for the PS4, I would gladly wait till q4 2014-q2 2015 for a finished product.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

"But now I see they are just over-reacting."

What exactly does that have to do with my question and what I said? Theres a major difference between sub 20fps and 40fps.Like I said you should probably re-read my comment.

 

[Earth]

A. PD has drastically optimized the code or will be able to do so in the next 2 months..
B. PD has to postpone release date, getting more time to do the optimizations.
C. PD reverts back to the GT5 graphics engine.
D. PD releases it as is.

I give option A a low chance.
Option C gives "This is just a demo, it's not representative for the final product" a new meaning.

Did Kaz overreach once again?

E. Release it on PS4 👍

I'm actually shocked the increased the resolution to 1440x1080 from 1280x1080. Why? Why put more load onto what you're doing? And at the same time drop 4x AA? I know higher resolutions can help aliasing but thats not enough lines to make a big enough difference.

This is terrible, running at 720p means less framerate drops but insane and I mean INSANE aliasing and jagged edges with blurry textures at least on a 60 inch TV and running in 1080p means a sharper look with less aliasing but still very noticeable and INSANE framerate drops.

No matter which mode you choose, this game isn't pretty at all, it's more like a headache and no I don't like the new lightning engine at all, it's like trying to be Forza 4 but fails hard at it, with flickering shadows and the issues mentioned above it just doesn't work.

If I was PD/Sony I would cancel the proyect right now and announce GT6 for the PS4, I would gladly wait till q4 2014-q2 2015 for a finished product.

At this rate, we'll see GT7 on PS4 sooner rather then later. GT6 on PS3 is shaping up to be a very bad mistake, but they have time to fix it.

I thought GT6 on PS3 was going to be a scaled back GT5, not quite as nice looking, but with better framerate, and thats it. The idea they're trying to ADD more to the graphics? I dont know what to say.

Here is some of the blurry graphics I've seen in the demo. Look how weird the trees look. Honestly reminds me of the PS1 era

 

[TokoTurismo]

A lot of people are also on the other side, showing a distinct bias to condemn GT6 when the game hasn't been released and no one knows. Condemn the demo all you want, point is, it's a demo, doesn't mean the game will be that way. It might, it might not, but no one knows. To draw any conclusions one way or the other is foolish at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if they found a reason not to include the highly touted new physics model even at this late stage.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this after reading through all the threads in the GT6 fourm.

 

[Fusion]

I noticed it right away since I drove only in cockpit. For the GTA events I switched to bumper and everything was smooth enough for me. Yes, the aliasing is more noticable and the image slightly blurrier at the same time thanks to replacing QAA with MLAA which does less AA generally but more overall blurring with the upside of far less of a performance hit. Overall I don't really care, it still looks fine, the slight resolution bump makes up for some of the lack of sharpness and the tracks/environments look a hell of a lot more dynamic and interesting. I love that. What I'm not sure about is the fact that we only see 6 of the same cars on a track right now, have no spectators in the grand stands and we are already having performance issues. I really hope that the demo build is at least a few months old, because another few months doesn't seem like enough to fix this.

My overall opinion is that they should have aimed for PS4 and a late 2014 release. Too little, too late in the generation.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is terrible, running at 720p means less framerate drops but insane and I mean INSANE aliasing and jagged edges with blurry textures at least on a 60 inch TV and running in 1080p means a sharper look with less aliasing but still very noticeable and INSANE framerate drops.

No matter which mode you choose, this game isn't pretty at all, it's more like a headache and no I don't like the new lightning engine at all, it's like trying to be Forza 4 but fails hard at it, with flickering shadows and the issues mentioned above it just doesn't work.

If I was PD/Sony I would cancel the proyect right now and announce GT6 for the PS4, I would gladly wait till q4 2014-q2 2015 for a finished product.

Define insane framerate drop. I don't think going from 60-40 once in a while is insane. Insane to me would be going from 60 to <20 regularly. Again, it's a demo, not the game.

 

[PepeMickey]

E. Release it on PS4 👍

I'm actually shocked the increased the resolution to 1440x1080 from 1280x1080. Why? Why put more load onto what you're doing? And at the same time drop 4x AA? I know higher resolutions can help aliasing but thats not enough lines to make a big enough difference.



At this rate, we'll see GT7 on PS4 sooner rather then later. GT6 on PS3 is shaping up to be a very bad mistake, but they have time to fix it.

I thought GT6 on PS3 was going to be a scaled back GT5, not quite as nice looking, but with better framerate, and thats it. The idea they're trying to ADD more to the graphics? I dont know what to say.

Here is some of the blurry graphics I've seen in the demo. Look how weird the trees look. Honestly reminds me of the PS1 era

Exactly, I thought PD would understand this time around and that they would focus on what really matters but yet again, they focus on graphics. They should know by now that a smooth perfomance is 100 times better than pretty reflections and brighter colors.

''Adaptive tesselation'' It's not like GT5's premium models are lacking polygons. I seriously think PD and Kaz need a break from the industry to re-do their entire scheme at a corporate level, redefine their priorities and then bring something new to the table.

The PS4 would be a perfect platform to start fresh but it looks like they've screwed themselves once again.

 

[LeMansAid]

Exactly, I thought PD would understand this time around and that they would focus on what really matters but yet again, they focus on graphics. They should know by now that a smooth perfomance is 100 times better than pretty reflections and brighter colors.

Do you game on an lcd? Surely response time is what really matters, yet most people seem to use lcds. Why? Showroom brightness and such. Equally, graphics and cars are what sell GT games to most people.

That's the problem with being in to something enough to have the right priorities, while the majority aren't, and don't.

 

[another_jakhole]

Wasn't GT5's GT Academy '12 made using the data of an already coded program that had one track and eight cars? It was over 3gb so three times the size of the GT6 demo, which currently has four track layouts/locations and seven variations with five cars. Let's not forget that Silverstone's full layout is set during 3 or 4 times of the day.

Basically, what I'm saying is, how?

I already told you, the 2012 Academy game had a lot more than one track. At least five.

Oh sorry, I accidentally skipped it even though I was replying to one of your posts.

It actually had about at least 15 tracks/layouts with at least 3 of them being Course Maker tracks and there could have been more, I think.
It's understandable now . At first, I was only counting Motegi since it was the qualifying track and completely forgot that there were events before that.

 

[IceMan PJN]

If it wasn't for the numbers on the side I wouldn't have noticed the Frame rate issues, and if it wasn't for the side by side comparison videos I wouldn't have noticed the AA issues, I probably would've eventually but its not as bad as people make it seem in my opinion.The Frame rate issue is a bigger issue than the AA, even though I don't notice it, it does effect lap times.

I noticed the aliasing almost immediately and regularly.

 

[Zevious Z]

What exactly does that have to do with my question and what I said? Theres a major difference between sub 20fps and 40fps.Like I said you should probably re-read my comment.

Yes and like I said, the track tested wasn't the worst one in the demo. Silvy is worse. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the frame rate dropped to 20-25fps at points on Silverstone.

Nobody is saying that PD won't improve things for the full release. I'm holding out hope that they will so that at the very least I can have 60fps at 1080 for Time trials which is my favorite thing to do in the game. The issue some of us have is that we pointed out these problems when the demo first came out and a bunch of folks said "there's no frame rate problems for ME! You're just hating on PD!" and scoffed at the whole notion. Now the testing is out and shows that there definitely is a problem and its "oh but its only 60 down to 40fps ...no problem!"

 

[Fusion]

Exactly, I thought PD would understand this time around and that they would focus on what really matters but yet again, they focus on graphics. They should know by now that a smooth perfomance is 100 times better than pretty reflections and brighter colors.

''Adaptive tesselation'' It's not like GT5's premium models are lacking polygons. I seriously think PD and Kaz need a break from the industry to re-do their entire scheme at a corporate level, redefine their priorities and then bring something new to the table.

Adaptive tesselation is about doing the same thing as multiple LODs would do but with less resources loaded in memory. It isn't necessarily about increasing quality but more so doing the same thing more efficiently and having the transitions appear smoother.

That said, they seem to have two LOD models, and the jump to the lower one is quite noticeable to me in replays. I'd have to go back to GT5 and see if I notice multiple LOD changes more frequently or if the changes there are more subtle. Right now it seems like the high poly model with tesselation at a minumum is still quite a jump to the low poly model LOD.

 

[Tornado]

Urgh. Why did they raise the display resolution? They freed up all those resources, and that is what they used some of them on?

These have not been a problem for me. And to be honest, you guys are over reacting, this is the demo not the final game.

Placeholder framerate.

We have no evidence to suggest that PD, or Sony Computer Entertainment, would allow one of their flagship games to be worse than it's three year old predecessor in terms of aliasing or frame-rate.

I recall GT4 having a slightly more juddery framerate than GT3 (usually only in 1080i mode, but occasionally in night races in 480i/480p). I recall GT5 having a framerate that drops into the teens in certain circumstances compared to the (almost) always 60fps GT4.

Nice thread, this is GT Academy 2013 and not GT6 demo. No where does it state that at all, it simply states GT Academy 2013 powered by GT6.

From the 2nd of July we have started distributing the "GT Academy 2013" PlayStation®3-exclusive free demo via PlayStation®Store, which will be available for a limited time until the 30th of July, 2013.

This title also serves as the demo for Gran Turismo 6, which is currently in development and scheduled for release during the holiday season later this year.

Linky.

 

[NCRthree]

Switched to 720. No framerate jumpiness in cockpit cam now. But of course there's more flickering. That's going to have to be the work around solution for me if I want to use cockpit.

Personally I prefer an easier on the eyes track with less contrast that what the Demo/GTA6 provides. Looks like they're showing off the lighting possibilities. Sure it's dramatic and looks sorta pretty but it's hard to see the track in cockpit cam like that.

Can't imagine the finished product looking like this. I sure hope not. And yes, this is a very valid complaint. A steady frame rate is absolutely essential for a game of this reputation.