GT6 Prologue

[Exorcet]

But why? Why waste time and resources creating a retail boxed work in progress product when you can just save the time and continue with the full thing?

Mass beta testing, or just consumer testing. "Yeah, the new livery editor is great, but why not metallic paint"? > PD adds metallic paint to editor in a patch, and knows to put it in the final game.

This has numerous advantages over just shooting for final release. If PD does it right, it will make the game better.

It's not like one day they can just go to File > Create Game and instantly make a game out of what they have so far, it takes a lot of time and effort as it has to be a finished product in terms of bugs, you can't leave game breakers in that you might if you just continued on your development schedule.

It's a lot easier if you plan it ahead. And since it's not the final product, if something isn't ready, you can just put it to the side and continue working on it. Even bugs would be OK if it's understood to be a beta product.


I'd like if PD, among other devs, copied ED

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/

Their products are never released as full games initially. They release betas and then patch them to full games (as well as release boxed full game discs). Players get to play earlier as well as suggest features and improvements and the devs get more bug finders.

Buyers of GT6P should be able to patch to GT6 or get a free/discount GT6 copy. They'll also serve as beta testers and be able to formally submit feature requests to PD for the final game.

 

[TokoTurismo]

@Exorcet You, have hands down, written the best and reasonable post ever. I really agree of what you've wrote, and it's very understandable as to why to have GT6 exist first too. Infinite plus to you. 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Buyers of GT6P should be able to patch to GT6 or get a free/discount GT6 copy. They'll also serve as beta testers and be able to formally submit feature requests to PD for the final game.

This would make it bearable for me, sure. But I highly doubt that'd happen.

I just don't understand the actual desire for Prologues; I'd hate to see it become an industry norm. What's next, paying for a demo of the next MGS5? Metal Gear Prologue? It's already been two years since GT5, and likely another year before we see any sort of GT game; at that point, I'd expect a full new iteration, not some work-in-progress.

 

[machschnel]

Mass beta testing, or just consumer testing. "Yeah, the new livery editor is great, but why not metallic paint"? > PD adds metallic paint to editor in a patch, and knows to put it in the final game.

Yeah you're right.

I remember how perfect and problem free GT5 was after the "mass beta" that was Prologue

Having a beta is all well and good, but when problems still exist in the final game that where in the beta, what's the point? I don't think Polyphony even understand what feedback/customer relations means.

 

[Samus]

Mass beta testing, or just consumer testing. "Yeah, the new livery editor is great, but why not metallic paint"? > PD adds metallic paint to editor in a patch, and knows to put it in the final game.

This has numerous advantages over just shooting for final release. If PD does it right, it will make the game better.

But this is PD, they've already had GT5 and 2 years of GT5 itself, if they haven't worked out what we want by now and made the relevent changes for GT6 then we have no hope and a GT6 isn't going to help that.

This would make it bearable for me, sure. But I highly doubt that'd happen.

I just don't understand the actual desire for Prologues; I'd hate to see it become an industry norm. What's next, paying for a demo of the next MGS5? Metal Gear Prologue? It's already been two years since GT5, and likely another year before we see any sort of GT game; at that point, I'd expect a full new iteration, not some work-in-progress.

Exactly, it's sad that people are almost expecting 4+ year development cycles for GT games now. GT5 taking as long as it did should be an exception, Kaz himself said GT6 shouldn't take nearly as long as GT5 did.

If (and I know it's still a big if) PS4 is released late 2013 PD should be able to delivery a fully fleshed out game within 6 months at the most, that's 3 and a half years dev time. If they take that long and then slap us in the face with another work-in-progress the future of this series is in serious dire straits.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Than like I said before, we'll just have to wait and see at least next year. Besides, it's a RUMOR we're discussing about anyway. I'll love to have the full GT6 too, but lets see what PD does. :\

*Guess figures crossed for full GT6?*

 

[ch3ng]

Mass beta testing

Did you mean mass money earning with a Demo?

 

[thelvynau]

I think pd would be taking a risk by releasing a prologue.

And if they did they wouldnt want to remove things like they did with gt5.

I am hoping we just get the full game no prologue.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I think pd would be taking a risk by releasing a prologue.

And if they did they wouldnt want to remove things like they did with gt5.

I am hoping we just get the full game no prologue.

I really would love and hope to the full version of GT6 now, but that "GT Prologue" thing is scaring me and thinking other wise. Hope it was just someone who expected there to be one, and actually it was the full one instead.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I think you guys should all calm down. The Prologue is obviously for GT7.

Kaz said a long time ago that GT6 was based on the GT5 operating system and it was just a matter of building new apps. One, of course, being the gps toyota 86 data logging app which they said would be released in 2013.

That GT academy winner saw parts of the game a long time ago. It had so many tracks that his hat fell off. What exactly was he looking at – a yet to be released devkit – or a PS3?

They just shipped the new platform devkit not too long ago.

Of course they are working on a prologue. Gran Turismo 7 Prologue. They have to build a new engine for the new gpu/cpu/hardware for the next generation of Gran Turismo. When they get it working they will release it to as a prologue to hold us over for the (probably really delayed) release of GT7 – which will probably be disappointing to many people just like GT5.

So then we will be able look forward to the much improved release of GT8 on the PS4, just like we are looking forward to the release of a much improved GT6 on the PS3

You seem to be just about the only person left that thinks GT6 will be on PS3. Things change and Kaz also said he didn't know whether GT6 would be PS3 or PS4.

There is simply no window left for a PS3 game, not with next-gen announced in 6 months.

Also they don't need to build a new engine for PS4 no matter what tech is in it, all good game engines are cross platform/architecture and the GT engine will be.

This is just not true. I’ve done a little programming in C and assembly and I would bet the core components are written in a very processor specific low level (machine) language.

Like I said before Kaz said a long time ago that GT6 was based on the GT5 operating system.

I certainly think I am not the only person believes this will be a PS3 title.

Any professional programmers out there want to comment about what Kaz said about the GT5 operating system and GT6?

 

[thelvynau]

This is just not true. I’ve done a little programming in C and assembly and I would bet the core components are written in a very processor specific low level (machine) language.

Like I said before Kaz said a long time ago that GT6 was based on the GT5 operating system.

I certainly think I am not the only person believes this will be a PS3 title.

Any professional programmers out there want to comment about what Kaz said about the GT5 operating system and GT6?

You base gt6 being on ps3 because it runs the same engine?

the current engine would more than likely be on ps4 to allow it to run better.

Besides all of that with the new consoles close to being announced why would they release it on ps3.

Edit: given kaz said gt6 will be based off the programming of gt5 I still dont understand how that cements gt6 on ps3.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

You base gt6 being on ps3 because it runs the same engine?

the current engine would more than likely be on ps4 to allow it to run better.

Besides all of that with the new consoles close to being announced why would they release it on ps3.

Edit: given kaz said gt6 will be based off the programming of gt5 I still dont understand how that cements gt6 on ps3.

Operating systems are machine specific.

 

[thelvynau]

Operating systems are machine specific.

No they arent look at linux thats hardly machine specific nor is gt5s engine.

 

[Samus]

I'm not going to claim I know a lot about software programming as I don't but why doesn't anyone else have a problem then? You don't need two different engines to run a PS3 and 360 game yet they have very different architectures. If that is possible and something like the RAGE engine can power Rockstar games on PS3 and 360 I'm sure the GT engine could be adapted to work on x86 if that is indeed what the PS4 is.

But going to the prominent discussion, if you think GT6 is going to be on the PS3 how do you see the schedule of that, roughly? Bearing in mind it has not been announced this year and PS4 is widely accepted to be unveiled at E3 in June 2013, when is a PS3 game going to be announced and released?

EDIT: You seem to be taking that operating system comment too literal. GT5 isn't an ACTUAL operating system, he said it REPRESENTS an operating system, it was a easy to understand comparison.

EDIT2: Also you seem to be putting a lot of faith in what Kaz said. He says a lot of things that don't come true or change. In the very same interview he made the OS comment he also said categorically that GT5 would be released in Japan in March 2010. It was not, obviously.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

No they arent look at linux thats hardly machine specific nor is gt5s engine.

Linux is an operating system for the intel x86 system and many other variations exist for other machines. It allows you to run a lot of applications like x-windows (I guess that is still around). The kernel of all the bits of the operating system is written specifically for the type of processor it runs on.

GT6’s kernel is written for the PS3. We are using it now in GT5.

The Prologue they are working on is the new operating system on the new hardware for GT7.

 

[thelvynau]

Linux is an operating system for the intel x86 system and many other variations exist for other machines. It allows you to run a lot of applications like x-windows (I guess that is still around). The kernel of all the bits of the operating system is written specifically for the type of processor it runs on.

GT6’s kernel is written for the PS3. We are using it now in GT5.

The Prologue they are working on is the new operating system on the new hardware for GT7.

How is it you can take one version of linux and install it on your x86 machine and yet still be able to run the same version on your ps3 before they removed the other os option considering the ps3 isnt based on x86?

Edit: this is going off topic now I want to stick to your reasoning on gt6 being a ps3 game.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

How is it you can take one version of linux and install it on your x86 machine and yet still be able to run the same version on your ps3 before they removed the other os option considering the ps3 isnt based on x86?

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring too. Is this what anonymous was so mad about?

The disc had both sets of executables on it, the PS3 can't run x86 programs.

 

[thelvynau]

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring too. Is this what anonymous was so mad about?

The disc had both sets of executables on it, the PS3 can't run x86 programs.

Whats anonymous got to do with this?

ok lets use Simons example if what your saying is true then you wouldnt be able to run games across multiple platforms given ps3 and the 360 are different hardware.

 

[Samus]

Linux is an operating system for the intel x86 system and many other variations exist for other machines. It allows you to run a lot of applications like x-windows (I guess that is still around). The kernel of all the bits of the operating system is written specifically for the type of processor it runs on.

GT6’s kernel is written for the PS3. We are using it now in GT5.

The Prologue they are working on is the new operating system on the new hardware for GT7.

Again, you're talking like a game engine is an actual operating system. It isn't.

You also still haven't described how you think these releases will play out irrespective of the game engines.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Whats anonymous got to do with this?

ok lets use Simons example if what your saying is true then you wouldnt be able to run games across multiple platforms given ps3 and the 360 are different hardware.

Your not running the same game core. The game core (whatever you want to call it engine/operating system) is written for the specific platform.

The games that lay on top of that are probably very similar. But they are just the user interface/application, or what ever you want to call it.

 

[thelvynau]

Your not running the same game core. The game core (whatever you want to call it engine/operating system) is written for the specific platform.

The games that lay on top of that are probably very similar. But they are just the user interface/application, or what ever you want to call it.

we are still talking game engines and as such game engines work across multiple systems what your saying makes no sense sounds like you have game engines and operating systems confused.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Again, you're talking like a game engine is an actual operating system. It isn't.

You also still haven't described how you think these releases will play out irrespective of the game engines.

From what I understand the cell infrastructure of the PS3 is very difficult to write for.

That is from complaints from developers that are writing to the hardware for the cores of their games.

The new hardware is not going to use the cell architecture. They will have to rewrite their core software and will want to, to take advantage of all the new features.

 

[Samus]

I don't think it does but it's not that relevant to the main point. So even if you are right and the PS4 games do need a whole new engine that still doesn't mean GT6 is a PS3 game just because of something Kaz first said 3 years ago. Especially when a long time AFTER that he said this:

It's previously been confirmed in Sony interviews that work on Gran Turismo 6 is already underway, but series creator Kazunori Yamauchi has also said he doesn't know if the sequel will arrive on PS3 or hold off for the mythical PlayStation 4.

"Ten years ago it was easier to predict what would happen three years in the future," he said in 2010. "Nowadays no-one knows what happens in the future. In three years, we don't know what will happen."

That was a whole year after the OS/Apps comment.

Then once again further evidence in that same interview that you can't take his word for anything:

"Online updates are planned of course for leaderboards and matchmaking - [they're] all planned in the process of evolution."

So where is matchmaking in GT5?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Whats anonymous got to do with this?

ok lets use Simons example if what your saying is true then you wouldnt be able to run games across multiple platforms given ps3 and the 360 are different hardware.

I think that's what we call with porting to another platform or cross platform development. As far as I know, the PS3 uses Cell processor which is unique at hardware level programming language, I think in the past it has been mentioned many times by multi platform dev that the PS3 is hard to code ( I would call this porting process as the actual game engine from PC or Xbox360 will stays the same eg : GTAIV, Dead Space etc) compared to the more mainstream coding of Xbox 360 which uses similar language to PC games. Hence why there are many games that were specifically developed for PC or Xbox got an inferior port or version on PS3.

We should be aware that PS3 exclusive games are developed from the ground up based on Cell's architecture,. If GT5 uses specific OS or hardware level coding + game engine for PS3, then let's say GT6 uses this as a base for development, while in the other hand, the new PS4 uses more PC oriented hardware which has different processor and architecture language, I don't think it will be simple.

A complete overhaul in the game core library ( OS ) would be likely, while all the assets ( 3d models, textures, sounds ) maybe can be used without much work. The physics engine could also be needing another rework ( conversion ) as the current GT5 is taking advantage of Cell's SPU's unique coding to calculate it. If what Kaz said is true that the next GT will use GT5's core hardware library, then I am guessing it will be on PS3.

 

[jabofu]

Linux is an operating system for the intel x86 system and many other variations exist for other machines. It allows you to run a lot of applications like x-windows (I guess that is still around). The kernel of all the bits of the operating system is written specifically for the type of processor it runs on.

GT6’s kernel is written for the PS3. We are using it now in GT5.

The Prologue they are working on is the new operating system on the new hardware for GT7.

If you dont have 100% proof of that or directly knowledge about PDs game engine, you should not put it in stone like that.

Many studios like crytek build one engine that works on all three platforms. Then they only have to work on the content, design and other things.

Game engines are mostly not build for a specific console. I think it might not be easy to port an engine for another platform, but we have seen that it works in the past.

The new cry engine 3 is multiplatform ready, as others like the fox-engine for the next mgs. When third party developers have next gen ready engines, why should a first party studio not be able to move their engine to the next system?

I think that all of these discussions about game engines are not getting us anywhere, because most of the people here, including me, dont have the knowledge about this topic to discuss it the right way.


My biggest problem with this Prologue is, that we probably have to wait another year for a new GT again or longer. That would mean the end of GT for me and I think I speak for a lot of people who are sick of this threatment by pd. So let us hope that it is just a rumour and nothing more.

 

[Samus]

You're going to be waiting just under a year or more for a new GT game whatever form it takes.

 

[MAidioPT]

people saying here: im gonna quit if it takes 2-5 years... lol ..

I bet if you wait 10 years, and GT releases you're going to buy it... XD

 

[thelvynau]

people saying here: im gonna quit if it takes 2-5 years... lol ..

I bet if you wait 10 years, and GT releases you're going to buy it... XD

Thankyou I had no idea someone could read my mind over the internet.

 

[Exorcet]

Yeah you're right.

I remember how perfect and problem free GT5 was after the "mass beta" that was Prologue

Having a beta is all well and good, but when problems still exist in the final game that where in the beta, what's the point? I don't think Polyphony even understand what feedback/customer relations means.

We're not talking about GT5.

But this is PD, they've already had GT5 and 2 years of GT5 itself, if they haven't worked out what we want by now and made the relevent changes for GT6 then we have no hope and a GT6 isn't going to help that.

Yes, PD dropped the ball with 5P, but if it's impossible for them to get it right with 6P, what's guaranteeing that 6 full will be any good just because they don't make a Prologue?. PD will have to handle 6P different from 5P if it's to be any good.

Did you mean mass money earning with a Demo?

No, mass beta testing. Especially if people get GT6 for free on top of being able to request features for the game.

 

[machschnel]

We're not talking about GT5.

Fair enough. But it's just a tad relevant no?

Wouldn't releasing GT6 on PS3 while using GT5 as the "mass beta" be the smart move? I can't think of anything more "mass" than GT5. It's also been patched about as much as a regular beta......