GT6 Prologue

[thelvynau]

Fair enough. But it's just a tad relevant no?

Wouldn't releasing GT6 on PS3 while using GT5 as the "mass beta" be the smart move? I can't think of anything more "mass" than GT5. It's also been patched about as much as a regular beta......

smart move? Maybe. Likely? No.

 

[LVracerGT]

I think that's what we call with porting to another platform or cross platform development. As far as I know, the PS3 uses Cell processor which is unique at hardware level programming language, I think in the past it has been mentioned many times by multi platform dev that the PS3 is hard to code ( I would call this porting process as the actual game engine from PC or Xbox360 will stays the same eg : GTAIV, Dead Space etc) compared to the more mainstream coding of Xbox 360 which uses similar language to PC games. Hence why there are many games that were specifically developed for PC or Xbox got an inferior port or version on PS3.

We should be aware that PS3 exclusive games are developed from the ground up based on Cell's architecture,. If GT5 uses specific OS or hardware level coding + game engine for PS3, then let's say GT6 uses this as a base for development, while in the other hand, the new PS4 uses more PC oriented hardware which has different processor and architecture language, I don't think it will be simple.

A complete overhaul in the game core library ( OS ) would be likely, while all the assets ( 3d models, textures, sounds ) maybe can be used without much work. The physics engine could also be needing another rework ( conversion ) as the current GT5 is taking advantage of Cell's SPU's unique coding to calculate it. If what Kaz said is true that the next GT will use GT5's core hardware library, then I am guessing it will be on PS3.

This. If..... And a big If (considering you can trust Kaz word as easily as you can contact PD directly) GT6 is being based off GT5 it will have to be on PS3 unless somewhere along the way they decided to either A. Start over and build from the ground up for PS4, in which case, don't expect GT6 for at least another 5-7 years, or B. Port what they had to PS4, in which case we're still going to be waiting quite a while.

 

[TokoTurismo]

^ GT6 doesn't need a new game engine, what it really needs is some improvements, tweaks and adding new features on the PS4, which imo should be much easier. If the PS4 isn't to hard to develop on like it was on the PS3, then imo, it may not take as long.

That's how I see it as though.

 

[Exorcet]

Fair enough. But it's just a tad relevant no?

Wouldn't releasing GT6 on PS3 while using GT5 as the "mass beta" be the smart move? I can't think of anything more "mass" than GT5. It's also been patched about as much as a regular beta......

The thread is based around GT6 on PS4, but even putting that aside no, GT5 isn't a good beta platform for GT6. GT5 has already been released and the players that like it for what it is probably won't appreciate PD changing it on a whim or introducing potentially unstable new features. And of course, if GT6 isn't based on GT5 (and it shouldn't be) then there is no way GT5 could be a beta for GT6 in any form. If the code doesn't carry over, the beta isn't going to be very helpful.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

The thread is based around GT6 on PS4, but even putting that aside no, GT5 isn't a good beta platform for GT6. GT5 has already been released and the players that like it for what it is probably won't appreciate PD changing it on a whim or introducing potentially unstable new features. And of course, if GT6 isn't based on GT5 (and it shouldn't be) then there is no way GT5 could be a beta for GT6 in any form. If the code doesn't carry over, the beta isn't going to be very helpful.

No this thread is based on Gran Turismo Prologue being developed for the PS4. No number is given.

Some people assume the rumor is about GT6. It makes far more sense that the Prologue they are working on for the new platform is for GT7.

As far as GT5 being a lab for development of GT6 - when was the last time a two year old video game was given a physics update? It seems obvious to many of us that the reason they are still tweaking GT5 is so the successful changes made to the the current GT engine can be incorporated into GT6.

 

[no1pal]

I guess that if this is true, GT6 will not be a PS4/Orbis game at release. And PD/Sony will release a GT6 first and GT6 later. This is not so good for the gamers, but good for PD income wise. If I'm not mistaken, GT5 made about 60 mill$. So from their point of view, a GTprolog game will make money to develop the GT franchise further.
Whether this is good for us gamers, or not, is another debate. I must admit that I enjoyed both GT4 and GT5 in between the full GTgames.

A prologue game on PS3 and release of GT6 on PS4 would be a waste, as others has mentioned, since the structure on the platforms would be different (I have not a clue about making a game on different consoles, so it's my believe or oppinion on the matter)

 

[Exorcet]

No this thread is based on Gran Turismo Prologue being developed for the PS4. No number is given.

First post mentions GT6.

Some people assume the rumor is about GT6. It makes far more sense that the Prologue they are working on for the new platform is for GT7.

That makes no sense. Work on GT7P without GT6 even being ready for release?

As far as GT5 being a lab for development of GT6 - when was the last time a two year old video game was given a physics update? It seems obvious to many of us that the reason they are still tweaking GT5 is so the successful changes made to the the current GT engine can be incorporated into GT6.

Is a two year old game being updated surprising? That update has nothing to do with GT6. And if it does, GT6 will already be inferior to Forza 4, which doesn't bode well for PD.

I don't claim to know what GT6 will be and when we'll get, but I'll say pretty much everything is far from clear.

 

[thelvynau]

No this thread is based on Gran Turismo Prologue being developed for the PS4. No number is given.

Some people assume the rumor is about GT6. It makes far more sense that the Prologue they are working on for the new platform is for GT7.

As far as GT5 being a lab for development of GT6 - when was the last time a two year old video game was given a physics update? It seems obvious to many of us that the reason they are still tweaking GT5 is so the successful changes made to the the current GT engine can be incorporated into GT6.

You keep mentioning gt7 prologue how does that come into play when we havent even gotten a whisper about gt6 yet I think your getting a bit ahead of yourself.

Edit: do you have anything concrete that suggests gt7 prologue.

 

[Samus]

I like how he just ignored my post and still bases GT6/PS3 GT7P/PS4 on one thing Kaz said three years ago. He has also still not explained when he thinks a PS3 game will be announced and released.

 

[thelvynau]

Selective answering?

 

[Chrunch Houston]

^ GT6 doesn't need a new game engine, what it really needs is some improvements, tweaks and adding new features on the PS4, which imo should be much easier. If the PS4 isn't to hard to develop on like it was on the PS3, then imo, it may not take as long.

That's how I see it as though.

The current (PS3) GT engine (I will refrain from calling it the GT5 engine), was written specifically for the PS3. It was first released with Gran Turismo HD, improved upon and released again in GT5P. More work was done and many more user features were added and GT5 was released. That core is still being worked on. Why?

Things like seasonals – or races – gt auto – cars – tracks – paint chips – wheels - none of that stuff has any thing to do with the core of the game.

The core – or what Kaz called the operating system, that is very machine specific. At that low level of programming (think 1’s and 0’s), it is written for the machine.

Yes hackers (they are just hobby programmers) can alter linux (it is open source) to run on multiple platforms, but they don’t just snap their fingers and it happens. They rewrite the code for the new system.

PD’s GT programmers are now working on two platforms. They are still fixing the PS3 Gran Turismo OS working on GT6, And starting development for the new Gran Turismo OS that will run on the new Playstation platform.

I might answer more questions tomorrow. Not avoiding anything Simon. It’s late and I am tired.

 

[thelvynau]

The current (PS3) GT engine (I will refrain from calling it the GT5 engine), was written specifically for the PS3. It was first released with Gran Turismo HD, improved upon and released again in GT5P. More work was done and many more user features were added and GT5 was released. That core is still being worked on. Why?

Things like seasonals – or races – gt auto – cars – tracks – paint chips – wheels - none of that stuff has any thing to do with the core of the game.

The core – or what Kaz called the operating system, that is very machine specific. At that low level of programming (think 1’s and 0’s), it is written for the machine.

Yes hackers (they are just hobby programmers) can alter linux (it is open source) to run on multiple platforms, but they don’t just snap their fingers and it happens. They rewrite the code for the new system.

PD’s GT programmers are now working on two platforms. They are still fixing the PS3 Gran Turismo OS working on GT6, And starting development for the new Gran Turismo OS that will run on the new Playstation platform.

I might answer more questions tomorrow. Not avoiding anything Simon. It’s late and I am tired.

ok point taken regarding the gt5 "engine".

I am now curious regarding how you come up with them working on gt7 when gt6 isnt even announced yet.

 

[NLxAROSA]

That core is still being worked on. Why?

You assume PD makes logical decisions, when in reality they have a long history of not having their priorities straight. They failed to manage even one project properly, and now you're suggesting they are working on two completely different projects. Though I wouldn't put that past PD (given their history in weird decision making), it would most likely mean we'll never see either, or two half-assed results.

We know that the PS4 will have a completely different architecture than the PS3. We also have indications (hinted by amar212) that GT6 will be a PS4 game. Combined with PD's history, I suspect we won't be seeing a new full GT game for a long, long time.

Many people here seem to think that PD learned from their mistakes and did a complete 180-degree turn in their development process. These kind of changes (and I've seen them quite a lot in software product development) are generally very disruptive and require huge effort to be executed properly (and usually fail the first time, because people rarely respond well to being forced to radically change the way they work). While certainly possible, we haven't seen anything that confirms such a radical change.

More likely, I think they are still providing updates for GT5 because they love their product and keep on tweaking/tuning it until the next game comes out. But I think it's just tweaking/tuning and they're not preparing for a GT6 release on PS3.

 

[thelvynau]

You assume PD makes logical decisions, when in reality they have a long history of not having their priorities straight. They failed to manage even one project properly, and now you're suggesting they are working on two completely different projects. Though I wouldn't put that past PD (given their history in weird decision making), it would most likely mean we'll never see either, or two half-assed results.

We know that the PS4 will have a completely different architecture than the PS3. We also have indications (hinted by amar212) that GT6 will be a PS4 game. Combined with PD's history, I suspect we won't be seeing a new full GT game for a long, long time.

Many people here seem to think that PD learned from their mistakes and did a complete 180-degree turn in their development process. These kind of changes (and I've seen them quite a lot in software product development) are generally very disruptive and require huge effort to be executed properly (and usually fail the first time, because people rarely respond well to being forced to radically change the way they work). While certainly possible, we haven't seen anything that confirms such a radical change.

More likely, I think they are still providing updates for GT5 because they love their product and keep on tweaking/tuning it until the next game comes out. But I think it's just tweaking/tuning and they're not preparing for a GT6 release on PS3.

I have heard alot about amar hinting at gt6 being on ps4 how would he be in the know?

 

[NLxAROSA]

I have heard alot about amar hinting at gt6 being on ps4 how would he be in the know?

Not sure, but he has been spot on with his hints before.

 

[ch3ng]

I might answer more questions tomorrow. Not avoiding anything Simon. It’s late and I am tired.

PD also said they aim for the latest hardware. PS3 is a old console. Rumours say the PS4 will be announced before E3 2013.

.......
Need some facts

You can use a engine on multi Plattforms

You can create a new engine - Yes this is possible

You can change your mind - Oh hell yeah

PD said the premium cars are future proof

We already have a Thread to discuss on which plattform the game might be.

........


Thr problem is Yamauchi talked about so many things... Where is the livery editor for example?

Also keep in mind that Sony decide on which plattform GT will be released not Yamauchi. The Publisher has the last word.

 

[jabofu]

The current (PS3) GT engine (I will refrain from calling it the GT5 engine), was written specifically for the PS3. It was first released with Gran Turismo HD, improved upon and released again in GT5P. More work was done and many more user features were added and GT5 was released. That core is still being worked on. Why?

Things like seasonals – or races – gt auto – cars – tracks – paint chips – wheels - none of that stuff has any thing to do with the core of the game.

The core – or what Kaz called the operating system, that is very machine specific. At that low level of programming (think 1’s and 0’s), it is written for the machine.
Yes hackers (they are just hobby programmers) can alter linux (it is open source) to run on multiple platforms, but they don’t just snap their fingers and it happens. They rewrite the code for the new system.

PD’s GT programmers are now working on two platforms. They are still fixing the PS3 Gran Turismo OS working on GT6, And starting development for the new Gran Turismo OS that will run on the new Playstation platform.

I might answer more questions tomorrow. Not avoiding anything Simon. It’s late and I am tired.

It is not wise to argue about things you have a low level of experience with or knowledge of.

 

[Samus]

The current (PS3) GT engine (I will refrain from calling it the GT5 engine), was written specifically for the PS3.

Without working at PD how can you possibly know that? Answer, you don't, you're making assumptions. Whilst back in 2004/5 PS3 was the next thing and they knew it had the CELL they also are experienced devs, they know what can happen between generations and they would have known the next generation could be different. Because of that for all you know they could have created the core of the engine in C++, just as something like Unreal Engine is and guess what, that is very portable and can be worked into pretty much any hardware and architechture.

The core – or what Kaz called the operating system, that is very machine specific. At that low level of programming (think 1’s and 0’s), it is written for the machine.

As hinted at above, that is baloney. Like I said, the core of Unreal Engine is written in C++. That is not written for a specific machine and neither is likely the GT engine.

Also for the last time, Kaz never called the GT5 engine an operating system. He likened it to one, there is a big difference.

PD’s GT programmers are now working on two platforms. They are still fixing the PS3 Gran Turismo OS working on GT6, And starting development for the new Gran Turismo OS that will run on the new Playstation platform.

You need to stop stating your guesses as if they're fact. Because they're not.

I might answer more questions tomorrow. Not avoiding anything Simon. It’s late and I am tired.

I look forward to it.

 

[Griffith500]

The problem with saying something like "C++ works on any hardware" is that C-like languages were deliberately designed to be abstracted away from assembly language to the point that they were a bit more human-readable, without overly complicating the compile step. Algorithms are platform-independent, however how you implement those algorithms on different hardware is almost certainly going to be different when your instruction set etc. is different. That's obviously the job of the interpreter / compiler (with the proper priming in the code itself) to make that distinction (which I hope isn't being overlooked), but there's a reason such phrases as "shoddy port" are so pervasive, and it's not because the same code works equally well on all hardware. In other words, the problem isn't one of getting the code to run, so much as getting it to run efficiently.

You have to ask why GT5 was "scratch built" when C++ works on "any" platform (that has a C++ compiler written for it), so they could have just used GT4's engine with extra bells and whistles. But, again, none of this helps us figure out which console GT6 will be on, or whether a Prologue is "worth it".

 

[Samus]

Like I said before I don't really know a lot (read: pretty much nothing) about programming but I'm just going by what other engines are capable of and PD knowing that the CELL wasn't going to be used forever and that they can't keep creating a new engine every time the main architecture changes.

Regarding the GT4 engine not being used for GT5 am I not right in thinking PD said they made a new engine for GT5/PS3 through choice rather than necessity? I could be wrong.

 

[ch3ng]

Regarding the GT4 engine not being used for GT5 am I not right in thinking PD said they made a new engine for GT5/PS3 through choice rather than necessity? I could be wrong.

I think they made a new engine because the old didn't support multiple core's and so on.

 

[Tornado]

The core – or what Kaz called the operating system, that is very machine specific. At that low level of programming (think 1’s and 0’s), it is written for the machine.

We don't know anything substantial about how PD designed the engine for GT5. They could have written it in Java or CELL assembly or anything in between.

They might have to scrap it entirely, they might be able to reuse portions of it, they might be able to have it work natively on the PS4 with small tweaks. That's assuming that they want to reuse it on top of that. We just don't know, and vague Kaz statements that are themselves thrown into doubt simply because of how long ago they were don't put any more validity behind any of the guesses.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

ok point taken regarding the gt5 "engine".

I am now curious regarding how you come up with them working on gt7 when gt6 isnt even announced yet.

Well we know they are still working on the current PS3 GT engine. Unless Kaz just wanted to give us one last update to screw with our car’s tunes. If GT6 were going to be released on the new platform there would be no reason for them to do any more work into the PS3 GT engine. They might still be providing DLC if they felt it were profitable but there would be no need to continue to change the physics.

I believe it is safe to assume PD is also working with the recently released Orbis dev kits. That, after all, is what the rumor is all about.

You assume PD makes logical decisions, when in reality they have a long history of not having their priorities straight.

Ok let me see if I can get my head around what you are saying. First they are illogical…

More likely, I think they are still providing updates for GT5 because they love their product and keep on tweaking/tuning it until the next game comes out. But I think it's just tweaking/tuning and they're not preparing for a GT6 release on PS3.

And now they are working for love. And to you that is logical? Maybe Kaz brings them puppies.

Until the next game comes out? So the guys at PD are waiting, just like all of us?

Without working at PD how can you possibly know that? Answer, you don't, you're making assumptions.

Yes, but that is all that anyone in this thread is doing. I am merely laying out a logical argument for why I believe this rumored Prologue is for GT7.

they could have created the core of the engine in C++, just as something like Unreal Engine is and guess what, that is very portable and can be worked into pretty much any hardware and architechture.

The Unreal Engine allows for the development of cross platform applications. The Unreal Engine itself is not a cross platform piece of software. If a game written with the Unreal Engine is going to run on an Xbox it will use a version of the Unreal Engine written for DirectX. On other platforms it may use the Unreal Engine written for OpenGL.

You need to stop stating your guesses as if they're fact. Because they're not.

IMOHO. How’s that?

 

[thelvynau]

Well we know they are still working on the current PS3 GT engine. Unless Kaz just wanted to give us one last update to screw with our car’s tunes. If GT6 were going to be released on the new platform there would be no reason for them to do any more work into the PS3 GT engine. They might still be providing DLC if they felt it were profitable but there would be no need to continue to change the physics.

I believe it is safe to assume PD is also working with the recently released Orbis dev kits. That, after all, is what the rumor is all about.

Ok let me see if I can get my head around what you are saying. First they are illogical…

And now they are working for love. And to you that is logical? Maybe Kaz brings them puppies.

Until the next game comes out? So the guys at PD are waiting, just like all of us?

Yes, but that is all that anyone in this thread is doing. I am merely laying out a logical argument for why I believe this rumored Prologue is for GT7.

The Unreal Engine allows for the development of cross platform applications. The Unreal Engine itself is not a cross platform piece of software. If a game written with the Unreal Engine is going to run on an Xbox it will use a version of the Unreal Engine written for DirectX. On other platforms it may use the Unreal Engine written for OpenGL.

IMOHO. How’s that?

It seems your theory on gt7p is based on very little confirmed facts and more on a simple guess.

On the same note I could say turn 10 are working on the base for forza 6 with just as much information as you have for gt7p.

 

[Exorcet]

If GT6 were going to be released on the new platform there would be no reason for them to do any more work into the PS3 GT engine.

??

Ever heard of patches or updates? Why does anything in GT5 need to be related to GT6?

They might still be providing DLC if they felt it were profitable but there would be no need to continue to change the physics.

Unless they wanted to make the game more realistic, especially if fans were complaining about how unrealistic the physics were (super draft, etc).

How about there would be no need for them to update the game if GT6 was around the corner. GT6 is far away, so they're updating GT5. This is bullet proof and self proving (or course [most def]).

Ok let me see if I can get my head around what you are saying. First they are illogical…

GT5's level system, forcing things on players that should be options, the paint chips system, not taking advantage of GT5P in making GT5. There's some support for that.

 

[NLxAROSA]

And now they are working for love. And to you that is logical? Maybe Kaz brings them puppies.

Until the next game comes out? So the guys at PD are waiting, just like all of us?

Not sure if really stupid or just trolling.

Let me spell it out for you then: they're providing updates and minor improvements on their current product (GT5 on PS3) while their new product (GT6 on PS4) is in development. There is no indication whatsoever there will be any major release on PS3.

They may or may not port certain updates from one to the other.

??
GT5's level system, forcing things on players that should be options, the paint chips system, not taking advantage of GT5P in making GT5. There's some support for that.

Not even mentioning all the half-implemented features and the complete absence of others.

 

[thelvynau]

Interesting read where this news story claimed kaz hinted at a ps4 release.

m.digitaltrends.com/gaming/gran-turismo-6-is-for-playstation-4-hints-polyphony-digital/

Edit: damn cant get the link right on a mobile can someone fix? Thanks.

 

[Argon]

Edit: damn cant get the link right on a mobile can someone fix? Thanks.

Fixed:

http://m.digitaltrends.com/gaming/gran-turismo-6-is-for-playstation-4-hints-polyphony-digital/

 

[thelvynau]

Fixed:

http://m.digitaltrends.com/gaming/gran-turismo-6-is-for-playstation-4-hints-polyphony-digital/

Much appreciated.

 

[Earth]

Yeah, at this point I probably wouldn't buy it if they decided to release on PS3. E3 2013 will be all about Orbis/PS4 and I'll be looking to the future and not interested in PS3 games anymore.