GT6 Update 1.09 (Undocumented Changes in OP) >Lock<

[FoRiZon]

I'm French, and I am SUPER PISSED, and so is everyone in Europeans lobby I talked to yesterday. Oh and my friend from Australia was even more pissed than me, seeing he didn't even bother trying to adjust his setup.

Yeah but you know, be respectful a bit, no matter our country is.
Kinda like saying "yeah yeah sure free tracks and cars and fix things but THEY FIXED THE CHAMBER ZOMG I HAD TO RETUNED THE CAR ZOMG DIS PATCH SUCKS!!! "

I also have to retune it but I cant complain because the chamber thing is a fix, not a bug like R8 LMS. So deal with it.

 

[hessi]

Not positive on the event you are mentioning, but I witnessed two mistakes in two differnent races. It was however, night time and damp but drying track conditions.

Jep, sorry, should have been more specific - I'm talking about the Seasonal Event A-Spec 600PP at Suzuka, notorious for its... different AI.

Did anyone else notice anything?

 

[Furinkazen]

All of those people who don't understand how to tune a car need not leave stupid comments about things they have no clue about I normally don't post comments but I feel the need to vent about this problem if u don't like my comments then keep your opinion to yourself thank you for reading my post

And this is for all the NASCAR racers here complaining.

I have been running as a part of GTP NASCAR for 3 years. Tuning is important on ovals. What you forget is that the changes affect the cars equally. Lap times may be slower, but this is not case for a particular model of NASCAR stock car. People are whinging for no reason about something that has spread across all stock cars.

Would people complain same way if PD change BHP for all stock cars in next update and reduce by 30hp? I think not.

 

[nasanu]

That's totally wrong mate...from a different angle just lets say the Subaru anyone for argument sake. say they use a mp3 for the sound and the subarus sounds take 10meg of mp3. Now the recording inside that ten meg file was recorded at a fixed bitrate as in 10 sec of audio will produce a 10meg file. If I dunno Maria Carey made the noises of a Subaru and then got a five year old kid to do Subaru sounds and recorded both who do you think would most probably get the tone right, its whats contained in the file not the file itself.

The fact is what ever sounds they use is not correct , as with the case with the Subaru if they did record an actual Subaru they must have use a potato for a microphone trust me as a owner of one for 5 years I know every squeak they make a lough I don't own it anymore that sound imprinted into my soul

Still don't know why you think I am wrong?... Perhaps you just think you can record a car sound and just press play when the car accelerates? Programming sound for a racing game is nothing like that. You need sound samples that you can loop and speed up / slow down. When the car is at say 2000 rpm one sound sample might sound fine but if you are still using that at 8000rpm its either still going to sound like its at 2000rpm with the 'beat' of the engine out of sync or its going to be very high pitched. You need samples playing over samples playing over samples coming in and out with the revs. GT's sound seems too thin to me, not enough going on. But I have only had very basic experience coding sound for games, PD could be using techniques I've not even heard of. Still, more sounds will always = more ram and the PS3 only has 0.5GB shared for everything.

 

[teth75]

Wow i can take curbs in the audi r8 ultra, without spinning out now! Default set up as well

 

[vasiliflame]

Still don't know why you think I am wrong?... Perhaps you just think you can record a car sound and just press play when the car accelerates? Programming sound for a racing game is nothing like that. You need sound samples that you can loop and speed up / slow down. When the car is at say 2000 rpm one sound sample might sound fine but if you are still using that at 8000rpm its either still going to sound like its at 2000rpm with the 'beat' of the engine out of sync or its going to be very high pitched. You need samples playing over samples playing over samples coming in and out with the revs. GT's sound seems too thin to me, not enough going on. But I have only had very basic experience coding sound for games, PD could be using techniques I've not even heard of. Still, more sounds will always = more ram and the PS3 only has 0.5GB shared for everything.

Mate I have made cars for rfactor I understand very well...if the source sound is garbage you will output garbage nothing about ram at all its the source sound. I could write an essay paragraph upon paragraph the fact if if the source sound is wrong no amount of ram is going to fix it. It's like baking a cake you get your ingredients right you will have a nice cake, but if you use concrete instead of flour no amount of butter or suger is going to make you cake edible.

 

[FoRiZon]

Wow i can take curbs in the audi r8 ultra, without spinning out now! Default set up as well

Now Im not scared anymore by those pesky curbs try to stole my car grip.

Try the karts. Its fantastic

 

[Kavey]

A slightly bittersweet update - very happy for the new content and physics fixes, in fact delighted. But having played a bit online last night to find a lot of my previously delicately tuned cars now behaving rather differently, am going to have to spend many hours tweaking 150+ tuned cars for the new physics model.

Only 'big' annoyance for me is the forced cockpit view at the start of every race. Why PD, why?

 

[vasiliflame]

A slightly bittersweet update - very happy for the new content and physics fixes, in fact delighted. But having played a bit online last night to find a lot of my previously delicately tuned cars now behaving rather differently, am going to have to spend many hours tweaking 150+ tuned cars for the new physics model.

Only 'big' annoyance for me is the forced cockpit view at the start of every race. Why PD, why?

Yeah it's back to the drawing board mate , unless you tuned with no camber. Happened with GT5 the reason I haven't tuned no cars suspension only dropped for photomode and stance purposes

 

[nasanu]

Mate I have made cars for rfactor I understand very well...if the source sound is garbage you will output garbage nothing about ram at all its the source sound. I could write an essay paragraph upon paragraph the fact if if the source sound is wrong no amount of ram is going to fix it. It's like baking a cake you get your ingredients right you will have a nice cake, but if you use concrete instead of flour no amount of butter or suger is going to make you cake edible.

What makes you think the source is bad though? We have seen how they record cars often and many cars at low revs sound incredible. There is no evidence at all the source is bad and logically it makes no sense at all.

Actually if you want to keep pushing your point first you really need to explain how they could get the source files to sound that way? I could record a car on my phone and it would still pretty much sound like the real thing. How could they possibly get the source files so horribly wrong for so many years with such high end equipment?

Explain that before telling me about your experience about not writing a single line of code for rFactor.

 

[TheProRacer]

What if all of this is just a huge placebo effect!?

💡

 

[vasiliflame]

No we seen them recording the starting sounds like when you choose the car in the garage , proof here
http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/en/

Never seen a rolling road ever being used by pd and look were there recording sounds , do that look like a purpose built soundproof box , no it ain't .... Anyways I won't post no more as its way off topic and its starting to be a argument and defensive lines are being draw

 

[Numbers]

I'm French, and I am SUPER PISSED, and so is everyone in Europeans lobby I talked to yesterday. Oh and my friend from Australia was even more pissed than me, seeing he didn't even bother trying to adjust his setup.


you realize Daytona is the only track where a room is ALWAYS open? oh and check above, there are lots of Oz NASCAR racers... I take it you don't know who Marcos Ambrose is? shame as he might just win this Sunday!

Ambrose is awesome. rooting for him Sunday. as my driver absolutely SUCKS at road courses.

but to be fair. I don't like NASCAR in GT6. if I wanted to race a Stock car,I'll just pop in NASCAR'14 and race against a full field of drivers.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Someone asked or mentioned this earlier in the thread, but has anyone else found that they've lost the settings in their B and C tuning sheets? Mine have been reset to default

 

[Nato_777]

Can anyone confirm whether the AI behaviour in the A-Spec 600PP race has changed? I ran the race five times yesterday with different opponents and not once saw the AI overshoot at the hairpin as it usually did at least once per lap.

I just ran that Seasonal a couple of times just now, in the first race I saw three cars overshoot the hairpin and on the last lap after passing the McLaren F1 for the lead it also overshot the hairpin trying to re-pass me.
I enjoyed the race - the AI were pretty nice to race against so I did the race again and I only noticed 1 overshoot in that race.

 

[NixxxoN]

Two notes:

1) I did a 100% rain race at Nurburgring 24h.... no spay.

2) Mount Panorama online bug still NOT fixed.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/en/article/26

Regarding Engine Sounds of Gran Turismo:
Posted by Kazunori Yamauchi | June 16, 2014

On GT PLANET, a Gran Turismo news fansite and one of it’s biggest forums, there’s a consolidated wishlist of things wanted in Gran Turismo (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/kazunori-yamauchi-qa/) and all the items listed are things I totally agree with. And the top item on the list by far, is the “improvement of sound”.

Of course I myself am not satisfied with the sound in Gran Turismo, and to the players out there I can only say, uum, I’m really sorry.
The things imagined and pointed out by players are really accurate, and though avid GT players probably know the history of sound in the current GT, but I’ll explain the background or the history of methods used from the past until the present just in case.

In the first period, this is during GT1 to GT4 – so up to around 2003, we were recording engine sounds like this:

The car for data capture would be placed in neutral, and revved from idle to every 1000 RPM mark and held, with a number of microphones placed inside, outside, in the engine room, and wherever else needed. In the end, multi sampled data was made in this way.

Even through a simple method like this, you could tell clear differences in engine types, whether it be inline 4′s or 6′s, V6 or V8, etc. We could do things like recreate the moment when the cam would change in the Honda VTEC system, so back in 1997 it was an interesting method experimentally.

But having the car in neutral, means that aside from the internal losses in the engine its under almost no load, with only a small throttle opening. A car in a real driving state is much different. If you’re a driver, the conditions for a good exhaust sound for your senses is pretty clear, and though we could individualize the character of each car by sound, but we did already recognize from back then that it was not truly the best sound for that car.

To be continued:

http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/en/article/37

http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/en/article/26

Regarding Engine Sounds of Gran Turismo: (Part.2)
Posted by Kazunori Yamauchi | June 18, 2014
The intake and exhaust sound of a car always sounds best at the engine’s full open, fully loaded condition (under full acceleration) in its power band. (Recently there have been cars that are tuned to sound the best under load conditions encountered in daily use, before the full open/fully loaded state. A good example of this are cars like the Lexus LFA and the Ferrari 458). All “drivers” know, that engines sound the best when the car is at full throttle under load of acceleration, in its power band, when the airflow through the engine is the greatest; when the engine is “flat out”.

And we’ve had the desire to record engines under those conditions, but in actuality this is quite difficult. Sampling of engine sounds have to be recorded in samples that has a certain amount of length (a full second at minimum), with frequency (pitch) variation at a steady state, or else its not possible to create a sound asset that loops correctly. if the pitch varies, its difficult to restore the sound to a condition in which the pitch is constant.
And having the car at full acceleration in a straight line (so in effect, the pitch increasing gradually with the rise in engine RPM) with microphones in the car recording this, then using sound tools to apply counters to negate pitch changes and then returning the pitch to a constant state it did not produce a quality looped sound piece.

So we also tried running the car on a lightly ascending slope, thereby placing the car under load and using a higher gear at full throttle, not decelerating or accelerating; but again this is not easy.
Using a roller chassis dynamo you can record engine sound with the engine under load, but the rotation noise of the roller itself, and the noise of its contact with the tires was greater than the exhaust sound, and didn’t prove to be a good alternative.

However there was a turning point in 2003, when we met with Mr. Tanabe of Amuse, one of the leading car tuners of Japan in his day (Mr. Tanabe passed away in 2008).
We found that the “Dynapack” chassis dynamo used by Tanabe san (known to be a perfectionist) for precision engine settings was perfect for capturing engine sound.

to be continued.

http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/en/article/26

 

[Le_Manuz]

- pp changed ? :
i had several cars tuned for 450pp, none had their pp changed

- RA Menu active online ?
no, still deactivated, options greyed out

- Strange things ?
yes, a lot

i can confirm that for all online race start i did yesterday,
the view was in cockpit view despite being in bump cam view just before the start
and that happened to all people in the lobby

tuning prohibited for all cars i choose for a special 450pp no tuning event
even the ones where brake bias was left stock
solution is to change the brake bias to whatever setting, press back to default and put back the value you like
you can now go to the track of a tuning prohibited room
happened also to all peoples in the lobby

general option not kept when switching from car to car in the same lobby
option like abs or traction control
not confirmed that everyone in the lobby had that problem

i have not seen the special "electric power" bar in the new toyota for the super lap event on Le Mans
i switched to all views but didn't saw it, is it disabled for that seasonal event ?

no or little changes to RUF cars, still wild ones
maybe less or i just starts to get used to drive them so it looks easier now

this morning i was thrown out of gt6 saying i had to go to psn account > connection
wasn't able to connect again with GT6 running
so i stopped GT6 tried to connect to psn and had to accept online rules
no problems after that

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

this morning i was thrown out of gt6 saying i had to go to psn account > connection
wasn't able to connect again with GT6 running
so i stopped GT6 tried to connect to psn and had to accept online rules
no problems after that

That's a sony thing rather than being related to the game. Likely, Sony changed the terms and conditions of their SEN service.

As for PP changes, I've only noticed one car with a slight difference so far. I have had a '92 Civic tuned at 500pp for months, last night it was 498pp. I did not drive it, so it was not the oil getting dirty.

I can confirm with other people here that the camera is reset to cockpit view at the start of an online race.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Someone asked or mentioned this earlier in the thread, but has anyone else found that they've lost the settings in their B and C tuning sheets? Mine have been reset to default

I hope this isn't true. With cars now having stock 0.60 rear toe, racing spec and stock is going to be a lot less fun now and there's no way I'm retuning all my cars if the settings are lost or obsolete with camber added now. Most of my tuned cars have B and C setups, C for the Nurb and B for the shorter tracks.

For everyone riding the Nascar fans with the explanation of, "it's the same for everyone so stop complaining", you could apply the same logic for camber as well, or any game flaw like reverse ride height. I don't recall seeing that ever used as a reason to stop asking for camber or ride heights to be fixed. "Oh camber is the same for everyone so stop worrying"...nope don't recall that.

 

[nasanu]

No we seen them recording the starting sounds like when you choose the car in the garage , proof here
http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/en/

Never seen a rolling road ever being used by pd and look were there recording sounds , do that look like a purpose built soundproof box , no it ain't .... Anyways I won't post no more as its way off topic and its starting to be a argument and defensive lines are being draw

And the sounds we get in GT are nothing like the sounds recorded from a stationary car either. Nor can you identify any external sounds in the recordings that would make all the cars sound like they do. It should be very obvious to all that if you put those microphones near those cars you would get recording vastly different from what we hear in game. Not sure how anyone could dispute that.

Oh and you've never seen them use a rolling road? Cleaver way to tell a lie. Sure you have not SEEN them, but I am sure you actually read the link you provided right?

They use these as a rolling road:
http://www.dynapack.com/pages/gallery.php (and in a massive coincidence I built that website, was shocked when I opened that page haha)

Its better than a rolling road as it does the same thing but without the hassles of strapping down the car and having tyre slip, nor do you get road noise which you really don't want since the car won't be on that road in the game.

 

[crowhop]

Has anyone tested the Reversed Ride Height settings?
The game has had them reversed since release.
Any news?

 

[vasiliflame]

And the sounds we get in GT are nothing like the sounds recorded from a stationary car either. Nor can you identify any external sounds in the recordings that would make all the cars sound like they do. It should be very obvious to all that if you put those microphones near those cars you would get recording vastly different from what we hear in game. Not sure how anyone could dispute that.

Hence the source sounds are crap so you answered you own question ... For the love of the British empire we should agree to disagree

 

[meek]

But if everyone is half a second to a second slower, then why does it matter?

well, why are we slower? because the car is suddenly snappy loose on exit, loose throughout the turns, leading to speed loss and many wrecks, impossibility of pack driving, and a totally changed -for the worst- experience.

Cars were too fast in GT5, but they're now too slow. IRL they turn 45.7's laps with plate restrictors and no draft, in GT6, the 43.5's-43.9's we were running without plate seemed realistic. 44.2's-44.9's we're doing now not so much...

I don't really understand why losing half a second is such a bad thing when everybody does it? It's not like your competitors didn't lose the same amount in the update?

And wouldn't really call it "fixing something that isn't broken" since camber have been one of the things most complained about since the release..

we don't use camber at Daytona, they don't use camber there IRL either. Camber being fixed (was it? not sure yet) shouldn't make NASCARs almost undriveable and the racing worse, should it?

Ambrose is awesome. rooting for him Sunday. as my driver absolutely SUCKS at road courses.

but to be fair. I don't like NASCAR in GT6. if I wanted to race a Stock car,I'll just pop in NASCAR'14 and race against a full field of drivers.

I think I'm just gonna go back to it too, I'll add you as a psn friend lol

I'm a huge NASCAR fan and also live in a trailer park, you can knock off the crap stereo-types, you're not funny.

how do I put someone on ignore? not you, the "loves clichés" poster... I'll try to match his dumbness: so, are every guy named Mohamed and have multiple veiled wives in Indonesia?

more sounds will always = more ram

we don't want MORE sounds, we want BETTER sounds

Has anyone tested the Reversed Ride Height settings?
The game has had them reversed since release.
Any news?

I tried with a NASCAR and a Ford GT, no difference, nor did camber seem to change anything, either...

 

[TCSTigersClaw]

Now again regarding the sound RAM issue Kaz answered for himself. Peace

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hence the source sounds are crap so you answered you own question ... For the love of the British empire we should agree to disagree

Not necessarily. The source sounds may be decent quality and engine startup sounds in your garage may be an indication of that. But if you take decent samples and then synthesize them through a poor game sound engine, you can end up with what you have now. Head over to the Sounds thread for more information.

 

[vasiliflame]

Not necessarily. The source sounds may be decent quality and engine startup sounds in your garage may be an indication of that. But if you take decent samples and then synthesize them through a poor game sound engine, you can end up with what you have now. Head over to the Sounds thread for more information.

Common johnny sort it out ​

 

[fizzer]

I don't get some of the sound arguments honestly. Lack of RAM doesn't makes sense because not all the sounds are crap. Some cars sound pretty dang good. All I would expect out of a sound update is for all sounds to be up to the level of some of the better sounds in the game. I understand the challenge of this of course for such a massive car list though.

 

[nasanu]

I don't get some of the sound arguments honestly. Lack of RAM doesn't makes sense because not all the sounds are crap. Some cars sound pretty dang good. All I would expect out of a sound update is for all sounds to be up to the level of some of the better sounds in the game. I understand the challenge of this of course for such a massive car list though.

But the ones that are good are also simple. Like the RB Jr. That is what, two sound files (trying to judge by memory)? One looped and increasing in pitch and another that comes over it at high revs with I think some reverberation added via code? For something like a turbo touring car you'd need the engine basic sound, a few spots at least in across the rev range, the sound of the drive train which you might get away with one sample for, any distinct sound it makes changing gears both up and down, the turbo sound both in wine and wastegate, any sound the brakes make when cold... What really is missing are many sounds from the spectrum of the rev range. Currently GT sounds like a small selection of samples are being stretched across the rev range too far creating that vacuum sound.

I don't think we have any car in GT that starts out quiet but sounds different at higher revs. For example I always remember the sound of a Vitz me and my GF test drove. This tiny little 4 cylinder was barely audible low in the rev range with something a kin to a GT6 type sound, but then high in the rev range it sounded like a little V8 under the bonnet. Personally I think GT is getting that base sound but not adding those extra sounds that come in, or they are trying to incorporate those sounds into other samples with mixed results.

Also to throw a wild theory out there, not all car models graphically would take up the same space in memory, but PD is forced to budget the same amount for each (because if some cars took up more RAM than others then there would be certain combinations of cars that could not race together). Some models may just leave more space which the game can not otherwise use so why not cram in more audio audio for those specific cars?...

I wish PD would give better answers on this. I'd love to read a digital foundry interview with PD.

 

[Phouchg]

For everyone riding the Nascar fans with the explanation of, "it's the same for everyone so stop complaining", you could apply the same logic for camber as well, or any game flaw like reverse ride height. I don't recall seeing that ever used as a reason to stop asking for camber or ride heights to be fixed. "Oh camber is the same for everyone so stop worrying"...nope don't recall that.

When they didn't clarify what the problem was and only complained that the cars were half a second slower it just sounded stupid. But from the later arguments it sounds like the nascars have become really hard to drive. If that is the problem I understand, if it's only a little time loss i don't understand at all.