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GT7 and SimHub Tactile discussion
- Thread starter gti_sdn
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- 27
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- United States
Hey I've been looking for another person setting up tactile FB on a playseat trophy, glad to hear its working for you! How did you mount your HF8? Not sure I understand from your comment but curious how it compares to my setup - I have a single BK gamer pro mounted onto the right steel bar, using the included clamp, right under/to the right of my butt. It seems to be working well but wondering how I could improve it. Can I also ask what kind of settings/frequencies you're using for the lower Hz effects? Going below ~25hz seems to trigger a weird warbling sound in the BK, not sure if that's normal or possibly made worse by the playseat trophy / mount position. Excited to get this perfect! It already makes a massive difference
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
We already have over 30 people in the group, @30% of those will actually offer discussion or feedback.
The idea of the "discussion group" is not a free effects giveaway.
That's not fair on the others that do actually put the time in to try to test or help with effects being created and shared.
We need to consider different options with the effects also based on say what hardware specific users may own.
When we have several people with similar hardware, it makes sense to then get people to jointly share their own settings used and impressions (of the shared effects) to help each other.
We can sometimes find personal preference is a big part of tactile too.
I am requesting people sending me messages or want to join, please seek to use and get acquainted on how Simhub Shakeit works first. Its best people read up on that or get help from Simhubs own Discord group prior to wanting to join
*Often those with the most basic tactile hardware have limited options, in how or what frequencies actually work well enough.
So they will not always get to discover how we can take effects further with the approaches I also have been sharing.
Interest in this is gaining and will increase as each forum member that goes with it will discover how it improves over what they felt before with their past tactile.
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Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
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Some care is needed as certain sellers will ship different PSU units with these amps.
Its possible to buy direct from doukaudio
Douk Audio M3 HiFi 2.1 Channel Digital Amplifier with Bluetooth 5.0 Subwoofer Power Amp USB Player
Notice: U-disk input is prior to Bluetooth and RCA input, so please make sure U-disk has been pulled out if you want Bluetooth or RCA input. Features M3 amplifier supports stereo RCA and Bluetooth 5.0 input, compatible with phones, tablets, computers, TVs, MP3 players, TV, CD players etc. It is...
doukaudio.com
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- 27
- United States
🤣 Wasn’t looking for handouts. I’m very active on the forums and groups I’m in and would have been happy to share input. I currently have 2 BST-2s and 8 DAEC32EP2-4 exciters mounted on the cockpit. Everything tested and configured in SimHub.
All good though! Enjoy the group you have and I will find another.
All good though! Enjoy the group you have and I will find another.
- 1,303
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
I was going to buy this amp but couldn’t figure out if it would work as a sound card or whatever so I went with the nobsound ones because you can usb straight into them. It’s tough finding exactly what stuff to use I found anyway. I found a YouTube video and just copied what the guy had haha. I was like there that’s proof it works I’ll just get that.Some care is needed as certain sellers will ship different PSU units with these amps.
Its possible to buy direct from doukaudio
Douk Audio M3 HiFi 2.1 Channel Digital Amplifier with Bluetooth 5.0 Subwoofer Power Amp USB Player
Notice: U-disk input is prior to Bluetooth and RCA input, so please make sure U-disk has been pulled out if you want Bluetooth or RCA input. Features M3 amplifier supports stereo RCA and Bluetooth 5.0 input, compatible with phones, tablets, computers, TVs, MP3 players, TV, CD players etc. It is...
Maybe the members of your group can share their equipment, what amps, shakers etc they’re using. Might get more people on board getting into it too? I was hesitant because I didn’t understand exactly what to get, what type of computer is required for simhub, all of that.
Once I’m done with building mine and tweaking it I think I’ll be sharing my exact hardware and settings just incase others are considering getting into it too.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
Ahh, well It wasnt intended or was I saying that "you" were....
I do have to highlight though that several have asked for effects and not added to the group discussion.
Im well aware and its normal that this happens that some people will gladly take what they can get for free but give little back to help others.
Basic effects for general budget tactile have their own limitations based on the hardware. Only so much can be done with a very restricted frequency range or number of effects operating all together.....
For multi-exciters effects and installations to take tactile immersion to another level, I have my own guidelines based on experimenting with exciters since 2019. So for users, to get from "my own" developed effects what is intended requires using recommend types of seats and exciters placed in general positions for specific body regions. Regards the multi-exciter installations and effects, these points are already shared and made quite clear, stick with the recommendations, get a suitable seat or dont but part of the idea is to have feedback from people that have or are supporting my approach.
We are only touching the surface/dipping our toes with the exciters as to what the full potential is. Yet in my experience, for the price of a multi-exciter setup it wont be beaten when used with quality custom effects.
I am getting more an more requests and from these some are coming, into this totally new to Simhub.
So yes, I would rather we get more people that are interested in testing and jointly with others help with tests and comparisons, as what can be achieved from that will go towards a future guide regarding tactile and focused on GT7
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Nightwing24
(Banned)
- 241
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To those looking for more info, I found these pretty helpful in going into and explaining the software;
The only additional advice I believe this doesn’t cover I have found is:
-less is more in effect per transducer. Too many effects per transducer means when effects overlap some will be muted.
-more is more when it comes to transducers. Both in number and variety of transducers. Each different size transducer works at a different feeling and different frequency that can be combined with others to make more realistic feeling. As all sim rig hardware, start small and grow little by little.
-invest in learning basic audio hardware knowledge. Learn what the specifications for the transducers are, what kind and power of amp you need to not blow out your newly acquired and purchased hardware.
-how you mount matters. If you use zip ties, there is flex that will absorb the vibrations. If bolted to your rig or to wood plank secured to rig, vibrations will travel without impedance in your rig structure.
The only additional advice I believe this doesn’t cover I have found is:
-less is more in effect per transducer. Too many effects per transducer means when effects overlap some will be muted.
-more is more when it comes to transducers. Both in number and variety of transducers. Each different size transducer works at a different feeling and different frequency that can be combined with others to make more realistic feeling. As all sim rig hardware, start small and grow little by little.
-invest in learning basic audio hardware knowledge. Learn what the specifications for the transducers are, what kind and power of amp you need to not blow out your newly acquired and purchased hardware.
-how you mount matters. If you use zip ties, there is flex that will absorb the vibrations. If bolted to your rig or to wood plank secured to rig, vibrations will travel without impedance in your rig structure.
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- 1,303
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
Anybody have tips for mounting tactile puck transducers on a car seat? I know they’re made to absorb a lot of vibration from the road. Is there a way to get the transducers very close to you? I don’t even care if I have to hack up the seat some, I can just put a seat cover over it to cover the back.
I’ll have to look at my seat and see what I might be able to do. I have six puck transducers, was thinking one or two at my feet and the other four on the seat? Good idea? Do I just need one at the pedals? G Pro already sends sensations thru my current rig frame to my feet and almost to my seat and it’s not even turned up all the way.
I’ll have to look at my seat and see what I might be able to do. I have six puck transducers, was thinking one or two at my feet and the other four on the seat? Good idea? Do I just need one at the pedals? G Pro already sends sensations thru my current rig frame to my feet and almost to my seat and it’s not even turned up all the way.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
Yes perhaps dont....
Your combination is using one of the weakest transducers with 20W and on a seat, so thats not an ideal start with a seat that may have a heavy and substantial inner metal frame but with lots of cushioning.
Good tactile is based on what we can feel in our bodies, not what is happening on the 4 corners of a rig or vibrations in the rig itself, or what's going into the floor.
Finer detailing is from higher frequencies that have lower bass bandwidth, therefore these work better with close proximity to the seat and user's body contact regions. That's one good reason why you also move up from the puck units to the recommended exciter to get much more frequency response and twice the wattage potential.
Seriously, if how good the tactile you feel is important to you then find a good deal on a tub-based seat if you want easier and better tactile.
Nothing to stop us from also creating tactile effects beyond what the G PRO offers. It's possible to experiment with adding transducers/exciters to a non-Logitech wheel to give the wheel additional tactile. Done poorly it could be a mess and ruin the felt FFB the wheel already offers but done right we can create similar operational effects to TF or combine Simhub effects to work in tandem with the TF.
The main difference is the limitation Logitech has with its TF, in that the user has no individual control of each effects output (unless the game has controls for it) Yet with Simhub, even with early attempts I have effects that operate well to match the wheel, we do have full control of the effects and we can install multiple units in pedals or the seat, budget or pro level hardware.
TF while a nice addition is not that amazing if you have already experienced good tactile.
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Mr Latte
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Mr Latte
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Goto all the bother to have an end result that will be limited or likely won't be that great anyways.
SRS sells the U-SHAKE 6
A seat pad option @$429 (which uses 6x pucks) if you want a simple solution for your current seat.
They will also like you to pay @$19 a year for what they call "Premium Shake" features, these offer additional controls with their own software.
Having been looking at it, (my opinion) as an option it seems vastly inferior to what is possible with Simhub, and the effects people can build with Simhub are going to be way beyond what you can get with SRS software. Simhub, also only requires a single donation (which you may already may be using).
If you consider buying a more suitable seat and follow the free advice given, then you could have a much better multi-dimensional tactile immersion, with increased frequency response, and with Simhub, have more control and much better options for tactile effects.
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Mr Latte
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Some people have had okay success in the past but it's certainly not ideal. You won't know till you try and by then, if it's not that great you've put in the time/effort, and possible expense to modify what you have.
If you spent that level of money on a US6, I find it amusing that you don't consider selling it and putting the money into a better seat solution for tactile is all.
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- 1,303
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
Selling what? It wasn’t all that much to begin with. Buying one BS-1 or what’ve r it’s called and an amp costs more than what I got. Anyway, if you’ve got a good setup you should consider making a YouTube video showing it off and sticky thread your setup on this forum. Anyway I’ll let you know how it goes thanks.
Mr Latte
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- N Ireland
Dude, the BS-1 is another example of a budget transducer, like others they are often limited in the low bass it can output and is restricted in the frequency range it works well with.
If you want an upgradeable path to better immersion then it's possible with multi-exciters and combining with them the larger BK units for much more impactful low bass down to about 2Hz. A Clark Synthesis TST unit is also an option that brings something the other units don't offer with its performance at specific frequency bands. TST is one of the best transducers in the 60Hz + range for effects like engine roles and can much better produce the frequencies of octaves/harmonics beyond 800Hz to help deliver more engine character.
The combination of multichannel exciters to specific body regions, incorporating large BK for best low bass, and working in conjunction with a TST model will deliver a performance that is way beyond the traditional approach or using units in corners.
Search and you will find some of the best rigs that use this combination of hardware which is based on what was my own shared research and approach.
All I am trying to do is give you advice on how to achieve good tactile...
Its upto you as it is for others what you decide to do.
My own build is a d.i.y bespoke/project focused on achieving a high audio/tactile performance and is something I've worked on/off with for quite some time.
Currently, I have a revised design for the chassis frame it uses to implement this summer, and possibly a new seat too.
Out goes my current dual Yamaha soundbars the rig had installed within its base. I discovered how good a Sonos system is with Dolby Atmos spatial music and decided the rig will incorporate a stereo pair of ERA 300 speakers with dual Gen 3 subwoofers which I am enjoying.
The rig uses (steel/chrome tubing) and with that, I am upgrading the isolation my rig has with individual options for the seat/pedals and a secondary industrial/machinery-based solution for the chassis of the rig. It's situated in an upstairs room and I need this because as I already purchased over the last few years 8x large BK 6x TST units, 3x Earthquake Q 10B along with various other models of transducers sitting around that I tried and experimented with.
So some combination of these (to be determined) will be added with the 8x exciter concept for a seat that I have worked on.
What it does is take what Simhub makes possible with tactile to the extreme.
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- 1,303
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
Honestly it all sounds way to expensive, just those two gen 3 subs where I’m from would cost me $2000. Not prepared to spend even close to that. I’m sure these puck transducers will do the trick for what I want. It’s a video game, my wheel goes brrrrrrr in my hands and thru my rig some when driving over curbs. I’d like my seat to go brrrrrrr as well. I’d like a bit more gear shift feedback and seat vibration on curbs and maybe a little road noise. If it can manage that I’ll be happy for minimal amount of money spent. I don’t care if it’ll shake me out of my seat, in fact I don’t want that. As said, a brrrrr when hitting a curb or thud when shifting gears is good enough for me.
The video I watched the guy didn’t even mount them on the seat and only had them turned up halfway and was happy with it. I’ll be mounting directly to my seat so I figure that should be good enough for me as well while allowing me to save the money and spend it on other things I enjoy doing.
I don’t need to fully immerse myself in the game, with the wheel and rig alone I feel it does a pretty good job, just want to round it out a little more. I mentioned before if I’m wanting more I do have an old home theatre subwoofer with a blown amp so I could modify the subwoofer into a bass shaker if I could find a good budget amp to power it. I guess I’ll find out but I’m pretty sure I’ll be happy with the puck transducers and nobsound amps.
I’m confident it’ll be better than I had before. If I wanted to really immerse myself into sim racing… I don’t think I’d be playing GT7. It’s good but it’s not the best in that department. To me it’s a fun video game, I’ll keep it at that. What I do wish to accomplish perhaps later is having that tactile feedback when playing call of duty/zombies. I’m not sure if SimHub can do that, if they’re reading this… I think it would be incredible to have the option in the software.
The video I watched the guy didn’t even mount them on the seat and only had them turned up halfway and was happy with it. I’ll be mounting directly to my seat so I figure that should be good enough for me as well while allowing me to save the money and spend it on other things I enjoy doing.
I don’t need to fully immerse myself in the game, with the wheel and rig alone I feel it does a pretty good job, just want to round it out a little more. I mentioned before if I’m wanting more I do have an old home theatre subwoofer with a blown amp so I could modify the subwoofer into a bass shaker if I could find a good budget amp to power it. I guess I’ll find out but I’m pretty sure I’ll be happy with the puck transducers and nobsound amps.
I’m confident it’ll be better than I had before. If I wanted to really immerse myself into sim racing… I don’t think I’d be playing GT7. It’s good but it’s not the best in that department. To me it’s a fun video game, I’ll keep it at that. What I do wish to accomplish perhaps later is having that tactile feedback when playing call of duty/zombies. I’m not sure if SimHub can do that, if they’re reading this… I think it would be incredible to have the option in the software.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
Tell me how much you spent already on tactile hardware?
btw we dont use Simhub for "Game Audio" based tactile.
The solution I have for a seat is adaptable with tried tested hardware that can let you send "Game Audio" over upto 12 channels.
Its also possible to have a mix of Simhub effects combined with "Game Audio" tactile.
This way we achieve BOTH but unlike other options using virtual soundcards, we can have control over how we use the "Game Audio" and determine what transducers/exciters are used.
btw we dont use Simhub for "Game Audio" based tactile.
The solution I have for a seat is adaptable with tried tested hardware that can let you send "Game Audio" over upto 12 channels.
Its also possible to have a mix of Simhub effects combined with "Game Audio" tactile.
This way we achieve BOTH but unlike other options using virtual soundcards, we can have control over how we use the "Game Audio" and determine what transducers/exciters are used.
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- 1,303
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- the-1st-hawkeyez
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
What I am doing with my own rig is based on my own interests, its not what I am trying to get people to do.
The question asking you what you had spent is not based on any elitist attitude.
Nor am I trying to impress, I am here though trying to help you or others consider what I am saying based on my own experiences with tactile.
You said you have an SRS U6 so I can only assume the $300 you have spent is on top of that?
If someone buys a Buttkicker or more than one (still popular options) these are not that cheap neither.
At least $280 for the entry solution and to get stereo effects in a seat as a feature would be of course double that.
Do you understand that the seat is important as this is what your main torso is connected too.
So if you want to have tactile sensations go into your body then the seat used is relevant.
You may say oh well you will make do, but what is the point of spending what you are to have a primary component (the seat) in how well whatever tactile you use is then restricted or not ideal?
The approach I am sharing is placing exciter units to specific body regions, so this is something that is not possible with the typical methods of attaching transducers to the base of a seat or a rig. That does not give specific control of what you feel to specific body regions.
So in this different approach, each body region is used to help distinguish different effects, or it can be used to place a specific effect over all the body regions. These are very clear advantages over what the typical approaches have. We can also apply triple stereo effect transitions over the seat to enhance the directional effects and if desired also do this in pedals too. Dual mono units can be used as well for constant effects like rpm or speed to separate these (if wanted) from the positional effects for the P1 P2 P3 stereo pairs.
In comparison, while a suitable solution for some, the SRS U6 does not perform that well when we consider what's achievable with tactile. The software and its effects are much more basic too, than the potential that is possible. Using exciters are relevant over using pucks and some other budget transducers because they bring better/wider frequency response and detailing.
Price?
This approach can be initiated by purchasing as little as 2x $23 exciters and used with amps costing under $50
Already several people within the group chat have purchased at least (4) units with an affordable recommended budget amp to power all 4 channels ($80). Some having experienced what it offers went to have the full 8 configuration which should be not much over $400 with cables and other bits included.
I very much doubt you can get better tactile for as little money and with it specialist-made effects for free.
The disadvantage is that yes it requires a decent tub seat or similar but lots of people already have that.
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- 1,303
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- the-1st-hawkeyez
I think you mixed me up with someone else. I got 6 puck transducers and amps, not that SRS U6 thingy. I didn’t even know about that thing until now. I’ll be looking at my seat and how I want to build the new rig. I don’t care about getting a little invasive with the car seat it was free anyway.
my thinking is, the G Pro is capable of sending vibrations down the metal into my pedals which are sitting on a board and some vibrations even go into my current chair which is basically a big cushion floating on some wire attached to a wood frame. It’s not like the G Pro shakes my hands like crazy. My thinking was some puck transducers or exciters whatever they’re called, mounted close to my body on the seat and close to my pedals will be more than enough to just fill out the feedback a little. I could probably even design my new setup to transfer vibrations from the wheel to the feet and to my seat better and I’d be happy scrapping sim hub altogether but I figured hey why not go a step further with the pucks and amp.
my thinking is, the G Pro is capable of sending vibrations down the metal into my pedals which are sitting on a board and some vibrations even go into my current chair which is basically a big cushion floating on some wire attached to a wood frame. It’s not like the G Pro shakes my hands like crazy. My thinking was some puck transducers or exciters whatever they’re called, mounted close to my body on the seat and close to my pedals will be more than enough to just fill out the feedback a little. I could probably even design my new setup to transfer vibrations from the wheel to the feet and to my seat better and I’d be happy scrapping sim hub altogether but I figured hey why not go a step further with the pucks and amp.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
Oh gees, an example of just buying stuff with a loose plan of how to make it all work...
With that I say good luck to you...
Some people like to tinker, I get the impression you are a bit like that and will just settle with whatever or however it ends up.
I want to find the best solution for an affordable price point and have it combine with specifically made effects to work in tandem with Trueforce / Game Audio and Simhub telemetry based tactile.
With that I say good luck to you...
Some people like to tinker, I get the impression you are a bit like that and will just settle with whatever or however it ends up.
I want to find the best solution for an affordable price point and have it combine with specifically made effects to work in tandem with Trueforce / Game Audio and Simhub telemetry based tactile.
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Nightwing24
(Banned)
- 241
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Can’t we get along?
- 1,303
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- the-1st-hawkeyez
I reply to you and then you edit your post, I will say this. Yes I have a loose plan and I’ll go from there, hence the reason for going budget, I’m fairly creative so I’m sure I’ll get a decent budget setup working. You mentioned using this and that and then upgrading to something else… sounds like you also had a loose plan and probably a tight budget at the time. Do I want to spend thousands on tactile feedback right now? Nope. Would I later? I don’t know, maybe, I have to see what it’s all about firstI guess. I can always upgrade later, not the end of the world.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
To be fair, I didn't see your response, when doing the edit, what you do is indeed upto you, as it is for others.
We are just having a discussion.
I already stated previously too.
It seems evident you will just do what you want to do anyways and based on what your saying, currently have a rather limited understanding with tactile. A lot of people don't, it's not a dig at you personally.
Others too will ignore the various points I highlighted, however, what is being shared is an approach to enjoy tactile that no other solution on the market you can buy offers and is indeed affordable, expandable, and upgradeable. In comparison with the most similar option SRS U6 but bringing the benefits of increased channels, increased frequency response and much more advanced effects.
Nobody here is being encouraged to spend thousands,
The multi-exciter solution I freely share is based on my own testing and experiences. Not trying to be a smart ass but I know what the potential is and how to combine additional hardware that offers the best tactile performances over the full bass frequency range.
As a tactile hobbyist it was in my own interest to seek to learn how to further add "Game Audio" based tactile or indeed do something nobody to date has yet done... To determine what frequencies "Trueforce" generates, how/what telemetry effects it is applying, and then, with Simhub build effects that operate to match with their activity.
I'm sorry you do not see this as exciting or something to even consider.
Nightwing24
(Banned)
- 241
- United States
Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software
So as these forums do not seem to have a place specific for general chat, questions or people sharing their own tactile experiences. I thought it might be a good thing to start one. General banter, or show your rigs, discuss what you have, perhaps what you like or dislike. Technical queries...
www.racedepartment.com
@Mr Latte thread showcasing quite a bit of useful info as well as his ideas for setting up settings that can be easily translated to GT7 without the snark of being part of his q/a testing group.
I also posted a few YouTube videos a page or 2 ago that combined with the additional 5+ year old thread info was easy for me to set up and I recommend to watch to see how to play and tweak the software output. It definitely needs to be tailored for the specific transducer/exciter limited range dependent upon the unit specifications so sharing settings for different hardware is semi-useless. But learning the why and how it works will allow you to fix the settings to match your hardware.
We should be freely helping each other rather than gatekeeping, but people gonna be people. 🤷🏼♂️
Hope it helps!
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