GT7 Daily Race Discussion

[KosmoKazi]

Yeah, well, I just want to state that a dirty driver, or a series of dirty drivers are never gonna make me quit racing online.
If the game doesn't penalize them, I'll improvise. Things will eventually get squared up, and we keep on truckin. 👍

Again, I realize that most people don't have the same approach as myself, but when I have a race ruined by some jerk who destroys me intentionally, and for no good reason, there's nobody who wants to enter the next race as badly as I do.

I understand that conditions will never be ideal, but I have fun racing anyways. Sometimes you just get dealt a bad hand, but you gotta ante up for the next match, or you'll never see a good one.

There's far too many quitters, nowadays.

If you think the physics are bad, or the penalty system is bad, or the BoP is unfair, guess what? It's the same for everybody else. You aren't being picked on. Those things have an equal effect on all the other drivers. There's people who race all the time who never win, or win maybe just a couple of races per year. They still race all the time because they have fun competing. I love those people.

I think most of the people who come here and announce that they're quitting (there's so many ) are just too hung up on the results.✌️

I hear you, and I'm probably a little full of is (call me out when you see me online later today or this week, that's ok)... but I am sick of the garbage that seems to have gotten worse since the holidays.

My DR was at A+, which was a goal of mine, and I don't run an Alt on GT7. Earned totally on merit, no grinding or cherry-picking since GT7 launched.

After being dive-bombed and taken out of race after race for a two week stretch, in Gr4 at St Croix, Daytona, and Watkins Glen, my DR has fallen to about 40k, a more precipitous drop than I ever experienced in my whole career on GTS. By a factor of 2x. And I'm faster now and relatively more competitive than I ever was on GTS, with half of my 300+ races being in the top 5 or better, and a 2x better win rate, even when starting out with the carry-over DR from GTS in the mid 40k range at launch. So the racing has gotten worse, the formula and BoP are all tilted toward dirty drivers earning better results with no consequences (and to be clear: I LIKE the current penalty system parameters... that's not the issue), and it's just not fun enough often enough. I have limited time to play the game anymore, and the accessibility of the game was always a drawing point. So if I sit down to enjoy a race or two, and have the hour ruined by that garbage, it's frustrating.

I'd also point out that while I liked the idea of the no-impact Race A at first, I think it's just breeding too many Daily Race entrants that don't respect the rules in B or C, and inviting too many Forza types. I'd rather PD set that strategy aside and make people behave in all the races again, because there is zero doubt in my mind that the racing has gotten worse, even at higher DR levels.

Lastly, the decision to run TEN WC race slots just tilts the balance toward the idiocy again... the guys who can sit there and grind out four tries, or the idiots that don't mind ruining their race in retaliation because, why not, they can just run another one in an hour? It's all tilted toward more unacceptable behavior and it makes it not fun for anyone with a conscious or brain who is trying to race clean.

I had one guy tell me, after observing me getting absolutely abused again by another idiot diving thru the bus stop at the Glen, "man, you are just unlucky." No, I'm not unlucky, I'm just one of the few who attempts to race clean so it looks like I'm unlucky when the number of cheating pigs online get away with the crap that is invited in the current formula PD is sticking us with.

I've got GB's of races saved on my profile that I could stitch a 'best of / worst of' video together with... but what's the point? The people who are racing out there and doing that stuff will try to throw up all kinds of explanations to legitimize it. But it isn't racing. I've watched and known racing for 40 years and this current state of racing on GT7 is further from 'the real driving simulator' than it has been in ages, with the way its sorted out in most races mid-pack now.

 

[sturk0167]

I did. Happened again. Then I tried 4 more times. I've done 7 races today and 6 of them were ended by a Brazilian with skill issues.

Regardless of how you may feel about certain groups, take it easy in these threads. The mods are at zero tolerance on that issue. 😬

 

[NevilleNobody]

That is disingenuous at best. Everyone that watches racing has seen racing incidents; except you?

Nope not just me, I subscribe to the theory of it is always someone's fault ala The Missed Apex podcast https://missedapexpodcast.com/

And he is right, there is no such thing as a racing incident.

 

[sixty4half]

Okay, so my opinion has changed.

Nope not just me, I subscribe to the theory of it is always someone's fault ala The Missed Apex podcast https://missedapexpodcast.com/

And he is right, there is no such thing as a racing incident.

You, that podcaster, and everyone who believes that is being disingenuous.

 

[NAXEHT]

On the topic of incidents, asserting blame and whatnot, it’s important to review the incidents you’re involved in and examine your own driving. You may think you’re always faultless and sure, in most cases it may absolutely be the other driver’s fault but with that said, if you keep finding yourself in incidents all the time and almost never your fault, you’re still doing something wrong, else you wouldn’t really be there.

 

[sturk0167]

GT7 is absolutely not worse than GT Sport. I have evidence.
This is a compilation video I made a couple years ago from my GT Sport racing.
It's basically a lowlights compilation. There's a lot of screw ups by me. There's a ton of dirty drivers, and a huge amount of insane penalties. For those who aren't familiar with GT Sport, when you see the orange SR down icon at the top of the screen, it means I have lost SR points.

It's a long video. Even if you just watch a couple minutes of clips, you'll see that things aren't so bad, currently. 👍

 

[Famine]

Regardless of how you may feel about certain groups, take it easy in these threads. The mods are at zero tolerance on that issue. 😬

Indeed - we are GTPlanet after all.

However the quoted comment is the right side of the line... just. The observation itself is a valid one (in x races, y of them were ended by contact with z), and not projected into an all-encompassing, sweeping generalisation (zs all drive like that).

 

[skidmark69]

I had just such an argument of sorts (probably more than one) in the Race B at the Glen last week, which was ripe for this move.

To me, I think too many people thing they have a right to a corner based on a run... you either have the overlap or you don't. Just because you've got a run doesn't give you the right to the inside line on fast turn. If I take the racing line, and you hit my corner and hook me because you dove in after I was committed to that racing line (again, while you have not yet established any overlap with my car) then it's not your corner, it's mine. You are at fault if there is contact. Yet so many people thought this was 'racing' at the Glen last week. It was too much at one point and I quit doing Dailies for now. Same thing at Daytona the week before.

It's made worse by the current META being the GTR, which really rewards slow-in/fast-out for pace but then leaves you open to the divebombs. So it's not sustainable and if PD don't get the META rut sorted out, I'm not interested in the game anymore. I hate the way the GTR drives and this combination with the pigs that think using my rear end as a brake, and that it's ok to move my car off my line with a sideways nudge on the straights so they can do it again next corner... no thanks.

My theory on the GTR being META by the way: they use Sophy for simulating the performance, and Sophy only drives like a real driver should. But this crap where you force the downshift to rotate the car, then over-drive it off the turns and let the AWD take hold, which the humans figure out, means the performance of the GTR is better than it should be. (and the new tire wear model doesn't help, because that thing should be SHREDDING the tires when driven that way, and yet...)

So until they go back to using humans (re: game data) to configure their BoP adjustments, instead of the AI, it's not going to get better. Unless they 'correct' their physics model, at least. That's my theory. I don't know, I'm guessing. But it sucks and something is broken, and it's made the racing total crap as a consequence. Discuss.

The way I'm reading this is it's effectively saying you can only pass by being faster on the straight and making sure you've started overlapping before the braking zone (why anyone would let this happen except for on extremely long straights where there's no defending against a move around the outside due to slip stream or a faster car i dont know though). Or you have to wait for the driver in front to make an obvious error and go too deep or get a bad exit something.

This completely bypasses the fact that it is rarely a black and white situation when it comes to who has the corner in close racing. Grossly simplified, there are two lines in play, the racing line and the inside line. They both intersect at the apex. At the cost of giving up some exit speed the inside line can break slightly later and due to being closer to the apex, it can reach the apex clear of the racing line driver who has to cover the distance from the outside to the apex. If that happens it is a fair overtake, and you have to accept that you need to adjust and take the outside line, and its on you for not defending the corner in the first place. Not to mention that not everyone takes every corner the same exact way, due to both racing style and difference in cars.

You're not committed to the racing line just because you're planning on taking it. If someone gets their car into the apex or on the inside of you without pushing you out of the way, they've beat you, and you can't just carry on and turn into them. They're only at fault if they leave no room on the outside for you. Only in that case is it a dive bomb, as they're not in control of what they're doing.

Just cruising around the racing line cleanly is never going to be good enough, as if relies on other people driving equally conservatively. It's a racing game focused on short races with limited opportunities to overtake, which means a lot of people will go for a gap, even if it is borderline. Most of these debatable situations can be avoided by driving with the expectation that people will send it if they're close enough (what close enough is obviously varies), and adjusting your driving appropriately. Then you're just left with the extreme cases of dive bombs, but they're actually rare.

 

[maetorn]

I'm still waiting for PD to fix the pathetic penalty system.
Which means, that dirty players are happy with it.
A bit tired of being pushed to a wall, lose time, get a 1.5s penalty and the pusher getting away without any penalty.

Pathetic, silly and ridiculous!

PD never going to change that. I had a small solution on my own. To prevent from dirty drivers, i'm lapping hours for quali laps. when i enter to the top 300-500 leaderboard, i start to race. When you are in front 1st and 2nd, they can't catch you in corner 1. clean 1st lap so you can have a gap to them.

 

[MidnightRun85]

My Pig (all credit to the livery uploader - I forgot to write it down)

View attachment 1222117

Haven't raced it yet. When I tried last night the lobby crashed - probably a sign !

Here's my Zakspeed Jever CLK LM. From that time Zakspeed decided to team up with Mercedes...

And I decided to knock together a quick livery for my Alpine. I fancied having a crack at the Daily A in it.

 

[T_702_Balone]

The way I'm reading this is it's effectively saying you can only pass by being faster on the straight and making sure you've started overlapping before the braking zone (why anyone would let this happen except for on extremely long straights where there's no defending against a move around the outside due to slip stream or a faster car i dont know though). Or you have to wait for the driver in front to make an obvious error and go too deep or get a bad exit something.

This completely bypasses the fact that it is rarely a black and white situation when it comes to who has the corner in close racing. Grossly simplified, there are two lines in play, the racing line and the inside line. They both intersect at the apex. At the cost of giving up some exit speed the inside line can break slightly later and due to being closer to the apex, it can reach the apex clear of the racing line driver who has to cover the distance from the outside to the apex. If that happens it is a fair overtake, and you have to accept that you need to adjust and take the outside line, and its on you for not defending the corner in the first place. Not to mention that not everyone takes every corner the same exact way, due to both racing style and difference in cars.

You're not committed to the racing line just because you're planning on taking it. If someone gets their car into the apex or on the inside of you without pushing you out of the way, they've beat you, and you can't just carry on and turn into them. They're only at fault if they leave no room on the outside for you. Only in that case is it a dive bomb, as they're not in control of what they're doing.

Just cruising around the racing line cleanly is never going to be good enough, as if relies on other people driving equally conservatively. It's a racing game focused on short races with limited opportunities to overtake, which means a lot of people will go for a gap, even if it is borderline. Most of these debatable situations can be avoided by driving with the expectation that people will send it if they're close enough (what close enough is obviously varies), and adjusting your driving appropriately. Then you're just left with the extreme cases of dive bombs, but they're actually rare.

one of the most insightful, thought provoking, and true statements that this thread has produced; well done sir!
keeping this in mind for any driver is beneficial, for many reasons

 

[hollowkatt]

Regardless of how you may feel about certain groups, take it easy in these threads. The mods are at zero tolerance on that issue. 😬

I really don't care. When it's commonplace enough for multiple forum members to be talking about then it should be talked about directly so that others know who to avoid and who can race clean.

I get that mods don't want to have hate fests going on in the forum, nobody does. That being said if I'm consistently punted by Green Flag having drivers, not the same driver repeatedly, not even in the same race, or the same lobby group, I'm going to say something about it. If that draws mod action then it does and I'll just stop posting nbd.

 

[NevilleNobody]

The way I'm reading this is it's effectively saying you can only pass by being faster on the straight and making sure you've started overlapping before the braking zone (why anyone would let this happen except for on extremely long straights where there's no defending against a move around the outside due to slip stream or a faster car i dont know though). Or you have to wait for the driver in front to make an obvious error and go too deep or get a bad exit something.

This completely bypasses the fact that it is rarely a black and white situation when it comes to who has the corner in close racing. Grossly simplified, there are two lines in play, the racing line and the inside line. They both intersect at the apex. At the cost of giving up some exit speed the inside line can break slightly later and due to being closer to the apex, it can reach the apex clear of the racing line driver who has to cover the distance from the outside to the apex. If that happens it is a fair overtake, and you have to accept that you need to adjust and take the outside line, and its on you for not defending the corner in the first place. Not to mention that not everyone takes every corner the same exact way, due to both racing style and difference in cars.

You're not committed to the racing line just because you're planning on taking it. If someone gets their car into the apex or on the inside of you without pushing you out of the way, they've beat you, and you can't just carry on and turn into them. They're only at fault if they leave no room on the outside for you. Only in that case is it a dive bomb, as they're not in control of what they're doing.

Just cruising around the racing line cleanly is never going to be good enough, as if relies on other people driving equally conservatively. It's a racing game focused on short races with limited opportunities to overtake, which means a lot of people will go for a gap, even if it is borderline. Most of these debatable situations can be avoided by driving with the expectation that people will send it if they're close enough (what close enough is obviously varies), and adjusting your driving appropriately. Then you're just left with the extreme cases of dive bombs, but they're actually rare.

I'm not going to take a slow, self defeating, defensive line because you may chuck it up the inside from a ways back. Each situation is different, on this corner there was a lead driver clearly with the wobbles, both distracting and to some degree limiting the options Grump had to take. There's also timing, the passing driver threw it in RIGHT at the point our man was about to turn in, it's too late, contact is inevitable. It's also a fast corner, if it was say, turn 2 at bathurst, that's more forgivable because you really do pull up the anchors and if you do a little dive like this the defending man has more time to react because he is moving slower.

It's the responsibility of the passing driver to execute a clean pass and you can't do that by diving for every gap you see.

And to be clear here, again circumstance is relevant. I absolutely steadfastly blame Max verstappen 60/40 on the crash with Lewis at Silverstone in 2021. Both cars were engaged in a series of side by side action in the preceeding corners, lewis had established some right to the corner and Max cut across him. That's an unpopular view but I highlight it to make it clear i don't always favour the lead driver by default.

The most common place i see this in the game is T2/3 at Seaside, the uphill left/right. If you take a defensive line into that sequence and the man behind stays on the racing line, your absolutely TOAST on exit, you may as well give up the corner. So if you want to execute a pass, you have a huge long full throttle section to establish at least some overlap OR, position your car on the inside so we would both be taking defensive lines. Lots of guys don't and just throw it in, especially lap 1.

 

[benjoi84]

I'm not going to take a slow, self defeating, defensive line because you may chuck it up the inside from a ways back. Each situation is different, on this corner there was a lead driver clearly with the wobbles, both distracting and to some degree limiting the options Grump had to take. There's also timing, the passing driver threw it in RIGHT at the point our man was about to turn in, it's too late, contact is inevitable. It's also a fast corner, if it was say, turn 2 at bathurst, that's more forgivable because you really do pull up the anchors and if you do a little dive like this the defending man has more time to react because he is moving slower.

It's the responsibility of the passing driver to execute a clean pass and you can't do that by diving for every gap you see.

And to be clear here, again circumstance is relevant. I absolutely steadfastly blame Max verstappen 60/40 on the crash with Lewis at Silverstone in 2021. Both cars were engaged in a series of side by side action in the preceeding corners, lewis had established some right to the corner and Max cut across him. That's an unpopular view but I highlight it to make it clear i don't always favour the lead driver by default.

The most common place i see this in the game is T2/3 at Seaside, the uphill left/right. If you take a defensive line into that sequence and the man behind stays on the racing line, your absolutely TOAST on exit, you may as well give up the corner. So if you want to execute a pass, you have a huge long full throttle section to establish at least some overlap OR, position your car on the inside so we would both be taking defensive lines. Lots of guys don't and just throw it in, especially lap 1.

Very good points well observed...

Besides those already mentioned, another element aside from isolated incidents is certain people's inability to see the bigger picture. I'm sure that there's a proportion of drivers who genuinely see every car in front and every corner as an appropriate time to overtake. First lap, second lap, in-lap, out-lap, different tyre/fuel strategy... it doesn't figure to them that race circumstances may come into play.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

Yeah, well, I just want to state that a dirty driver, or a series of dirty drivers are never gonna make me quit racing online.
If the game doesn't penalize them, I'll improvise. Things will eventually get squared up, and we keep on truckin. 👍

Again, I realize that most people don't have the same approach as myself, but when I have a race ruined by some jerk who destroys me intentionally, and for no good reason, there's nobody who wants to enter the next race as badly as I do.

I understand that conditions will never be ideal, but I have fun racing anyways. Sometimes you just get dealt a bad hand, but you gotta ante up for the next match, or you'll never see a good one.

There's far too many quitters, nowadays.

If you think the physics are bad, or the penalty system is bad, or the BoP is unfair, guess what? It's the same for everybody else. You aren't being picked on. Those things have an equal effect on all the other drivers. There's people who race all the time who never win, or win maybe just a couple of races per year. They still race all the time because they have fun competing. I love those people.

I think most of the people who come here and announce that they're quitting (there's so many ) are just too hung up on the results.✌️

It would help, for me anyway and possibly others, if we remember this is a game. It can be frustrating, but that sounds like most good games to me. Let out a good expletive or 40, take a deep breath, and move on to the next race.

A great deal of peace of mind can be gained from assuming race incidents are simple errors of judgement.

I'd estimate that out of every incident that I was sure was malicious, 95% weren't. Maybe even a higher percentage than that. When I go back and look at the video or the replay, I almost always see someone making a mistake (oftentimes me), or something unavoidable like what just happened to me in my last race. As I came around the first corner at Alsace on Lap 2, someone in front of me spun out and hit the wall, and I had to slow to avoid him. A Mustang came around the corner and spun me out. I was ticked. But in looking at the replay, the Mustang really had nowhere to go. Could he have handled it better? Not sure, possibly, but everyone makes mistakes, and most importantly, he wasn't being malicious.

Mistakes happen. Nobody's perfect. Don't forget the times you've done it to someone else.

(See, I'm learning. Maybe at 66 I'll finally grow up. Doubtful though.)

 

[MidnightRun85]

Here's my Zakspeed Jever CLK LM. From that time Zakspeed decided to team up with Mercedes...

View attachment 1222199

And I decided to knock together a quick livery for my Alpine. I fancied having a crack at the Daily A in it.

View attachment 1222200

Happy with that for a first attempt! First corner was carnage. I climbed from 8th to 3rd on that corner alone, then nabbed 2nd before the downhill started. Second lap the leader made a mistake on turn 4 and I just snuck past and held on to take the win by about 6s in the end. Love this little car!!

 

[NevilleNobody]

Reading the body language of the car is important. For example, I can tell when someone is fast but using analog inputs, the car is a bit jerky so i don't get fancy around fast corners cos he will likely mess it up.

 

[Leon Kowalski]

Haaaaaaa!

Fitting to the ongoing discussion, I just had my most fun racing moment so far.

Doing races B in my new shiny Aston Martin 😆 from the back, on my practice account, I saw a guy on the grid who I remembered from some previous... situations. When I approached him up the steep hill, he was -not unexpectedly- busy pushing another car into the barrier on the left. When I overtook him on the crest, he tried swiping me into the wall on the right, but missed. So I knew he was coming for me in the downhill right hand turn.

Thanks to @sturk0167 and his valuable lessons here, this time I knew what to do. And I did. When I saw him diving towards me on the radar, I just stopped turning in / straightened out the steering for a split second. Sadly I still don't know how to share a video, but here you see Mr. Blue Merc Moron flying past me on the inside, heading straight for the next barrier. Which he hit right on:

I took the corner slightly slower, but unharmed. Made me feel like a superhero...🤣🤣🤣

 

[Roggers]

New Years Resolution for me is to drive the Audi R8 Gr3 car more! What a fun car to drive!
Never driven the Audi yet on this game as I keep reading and hearing people say the Audi R8 is horrible to drive, doesn’t handle well and doesn’t do this and that. Well tried it tonight for the first time on Daily B and what a great car. Yeah the handling is a little bit sketchy but for what ever reason it really suits my driving style here. I’ve found that the you can get the back end out and I’m able to correct it really easy, and so far I’ve not spun it yet…… que multiple spins now. I’m not the fastest at this combo and it the first time I’ve driven the track but set a 1.54.213 Update: 1.52.572 in the timetrail. Not sure how that hold up with other B rank drivers.

Update: Hit 1:52:572 now in TT. Think that all I got in me for that car

 

[Fezzik]

View attachment 1222232

Happy with that for a first attempt! First corner was carnage. I climbed from 8th to 3rd on that corner alone, then nabbed 2nd before the downhill started. Second lap the leader made a mistake on turn 4 and I just snuck past and held on to take the win by about 6s in the end. Love this little car!!

It's a great little machine, very much like a Lotus which I believe was the target audience. I have one tuned up to Gr4 spec for WTC 700 races (as PD haven't given us the proper racing version).

Going back to the earlier conversation, my backup is now only 200 DR points behind my original account. What do I do if it overtakes? Delete the first one? I don't want to care about the ratings on both simultaneously.

 

[MidnightRun85]

It's a great little machine, very much like a Lotus which I believe was the target audience. I have one tuned up to Gr4 spec for WTC 700 races (as PD haven't given us the proper racing version).

Yeah they're awesome cars. My boss has one. It's such a cool ride! I keep meaning to find a chance to go out for a ride in it!

 

[hollowkatt]

Picked up two wins this afternoon in Race B. Qualy time is 1:54:0xx, super close to 1:53. I'm using the BRZ actually. Yes it's a dog in the straights but this circuit has almost no straights to be caught on but holy moly does it LOVE turning. I'm able to carry so much more speed through the corners, including the large banked corner.

 

[Fezzik]

Actually on the topic of BOP, it's been a while since I raced, how much has the nerf hut the Supra? That's a classic slow in-fast out car but i've not driven the group 3 since the nerf.

It's my quickest car in practice for race B. I haven't dared actually take the start line yet so not sure how it's stacking up now against the others.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I have been preoccupied for days with work so hasn't been much racing.
But here's my first race in the Lexus. A very underrated car in my opinion
[video]

 

[KosmoKazi]

The way I'm reading this is it's effectively saying you can only pass by being faster on the straight and making sure you've started overlapping before the braking zone (why anyone would let this happen except for on extremely long straights where there's no defending against a move around the outside due to slip stream or a faster car i dont know though). Or you have to wait for the driver in front to make an obvious error and go too deep or get a bad exit something.

This completely bypasses the fact that it is rarely a black and white situation when it comes to who has the corner in close racing. Grossly simplified, there are two lines in play, the racing line and the inside line. They both intersect at the apex. At the cost of giving up some exit speed the inside line can break slightly later and due to being closer to the apex, it can reach the apex clear of the racing line driver who has to cover the distance from the outside to the apex. If that happens it is a fair overtake, and you have to accept that you need to adjust and take the outside line, and its on you for not defending the corner in the first place. Not to mention that not everyone takes every corner the same exact way, due to both racing style and difference in cars.

You're not committed to the racing line just because you're planning on taking it. If someone gets their car into the apex or on the inside of you without pushing you out of the way, they've beat you, and you can't just carry on and turn into them. They're only at fault if they leave no room on the outside for you. Only in that case is it a dive bomb, as they're not in control of what they're doing.

Just cruising around the racing line cleanly is never going to be good enough, as if relies on other people driving equally conservatively. It's a racing game focused on short races with limited opportunities to overtake, which means a lot of people will go for a gap, even if it is borderline. Most of these debatable situations can be avoided by driving with the expectation that people will send it if they're close enough (what close enough is obviously varies), and adjusting your driving appropriately. Then you're just left with the extreme cases of dive bombs, but they're actually rare.

I don't disagree with what you say, but what I'm referring to in context are the types of races that you see in a competitive Gr4 race at those tracks I mentioned. Effectively spec races, so if everyone is in the status quo, and no one made any prior mistakes or put their car at risk for a really clear run by the car behind, then what I said applies. Now, in your case, the examples you may refer to... yes, if there's a major run by the car behind and it's clear that I've got a choice to either defend or not, then sure. But I'm referring to the normal situations where we are all running at 9.5/10, and the pigs that think they can just choose to dive in, which is really promoted in the current spec of the game.

So maybe my point wasn't worded best, but there were plenty of times last week when a 'run' wasn't enough of one to shove their nose in, but they did anyway. Same at Daytona, and I got punted for it over and over. None of it was clean.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

have been preoccupied for days with work so hasn't been much racing.
But here's my first race in the Lexus. A very underrated car in my opinion

OMG, I forgot how much I hate the normal replay views! It makes me motion sick just to watch it!! But I'm sure it was a good race. Fun car, too.

 

[skidmark69]

I'm not going to take a slow, self defeating, defensive line because you may chuck it up the inside from a ways back. Each situation is different, on this corner there was a lead driver clearly with the wobbles, both distracting and to some degree limiting the options Grump had to take. There's also timing, the passing driver threw it in RIGHT at the point our man was about to turn in, it's too late, contact is inevitable. It's also a fast corner, if it was say, turn 2 at bathurst, that's more forgivable because you really do pull up the anchors and if you do a little dive like this the defending man has more time to react because he is moving slower.

It's the responsibility of the passing driver to execute a clean pass and you can't do that by diving for every gap you see.

And to be clear here, again circumstance is relevant. I absolutely steadfastly blame Max verstappen 60/40 on the crash with Lewis at Silverstone in 2021. Both cars were engaged in a series of side by side action in the preceeding corners, lewis had established some right to the corner and Max cut across him. That's an unpopular view but I highlight it to make it clear i don't always favour the lead driver by default.

The most common place i see this in the game is T2/3 at Seaside, the uphill left/right. If you take a defensive line into that sequence and the man behind stays on the racing line, your absolutely TOAST on exit, you may as well give up the corner. So if you want to execute a pass, you have a huge long full throttle section to establish at least some overlap OR, position your car on the inside so we would both be taking defensive lines. Lots of guys don't and just throw it in, especially lap 1.

It's not self defeating, it's self preserving. And it's racing. And you are racing both the track (and your car) and the other cars on it. What you are saying now sounds like you think you're entitled to just run your own race and ignore everyone else behind you on track as long as you stick to the racing line and don't make a mistake. I'm not defending divebombs, but overtaking by going up the inside of a corner when there is room is a valid move.

I don't really follow the logic of what you're saying about T2/3 at seaside. You're saying following the racing line is faster (which it always is), so you can't go defensive since the cars behind can then pass easily if they take the racing line. But somehow people going up the inside is a problem? Wouldn't they then be slower than you if you stick to the racing line so you switcheroo and overtake again? I just don't see how you can have it one way but not the other. Presumably if it's because you have to break or go wider because they get inside you, then they would have to do the same if you defend. Or if the gap is big enough where they're so far back you defending doesn't block their racing line, then you should be able to drift back towards the racing line before the corner after defending initially.

The throwing it inside is also part of the move. You want to suprise the car in front so they don't have a chance to defend on the inside. Similarly if you go inside early you often do it to make the guy in front go inside to defend so you can then throw it back outside and get a run. Obviously often you're better off just following nicely to not let people catch up or lose time to those ahead. But these are all decisions you make as part of racing.

There should really never be a situation such as the one you describe where you establish overlap on the inside before the corner through a throttle section. No self respecting driver should let that happen, but always go inside to defend if that is about to happen (unless you want to let them pass).

 

[hollowkatt]

It's not self defeating, it's self preserving. And it's racing. And you are racing both the track (and your car) and the other cars on it. What you are saying now sounds like you think you're entitled to just run your own race and ignore everyone else behind you on track as long as you stick to the racing line and don't make a mistake. I'm not defending divebombs, but overtaking by going up the inside of a corner when there is room is a valid move.

I don't really follow the logic of what you're saying about T2/3 at seaside. You're saying following the racing line is faster (which it always is), so you can't go defensive since the cars behind can then pass easily if they take the racing line. But somehow people going up the inside is a problem? Wouldn't they then be slower than you if you stick to the racing line so you switcheroo and overtake again? I just don't see how you can have it one way but not the other. Presumably if it's because you have to break or go wider because they get inside you, then they would have to do the same if you defend. Or if the gap is big enough where they're so far back you defending doesn't block their racing line, then you should be able to drift back towards the racing line before the corner after defending initially.

The throwing it inside is also part of the move. You want to suprise the car in front so they don't have a chance to defend on the inside. Similarly if you go inside early you often do it to make the guy in front go inside to defend so you can then throw it back outside and get a run. Obviously often you're better off just following nicely to not let people catch up or lose time to those ahead. But these are all decisions you make as part of racing.

There should really never be a situation such as the one you describe where you establish overlap on the inside before the corner through a throttle section. No self respecting driver should let that happen, but always go inside to defend if that is about to happen (unless you want to let them pass).

I mean there's a reason we make fun of the Latifis, Mazepins, Yuji Ides, and Robbie Gordans of the world. They're bad drivers who lunge, have zero race craft, and generally make things worse for everyone around them. They ran out of skill taking the grid.

Likewise someone lunging from that far back has skill issues and shouldn't be on the grid at that level. If I surprise a guy from 50 feet back and bonk his drivers door while we're both attempting to make the corner that's on me 100% of the time for driving like a putz. Not the guy I'm attempting to pass for not having "situational awareness" of my bad driving.

The guy who hit Grumpy has skill issues. That's literally the end of the discussion. He had no business making that move and a collision happens 100% of the time when he does it.

 

[NevilleNobody]

I've said all I can, we are never going to agree.

 

[Bullwinkle]

I ran a bunch of cars at Alsace in time trials today. The Citroën may be the most fun of them all! It’s not the fastest, but it holds all kinds of secrets for getting more and more time out of it. I may spend a day racing it just to see how it does. The Atenza is a beast, and the Ferrari is fantastic fun as well. But the sleeper car for me is the Z4. Give it a try and see what you think.

But I’m still fastest in the 911, which seems to agree with me more than any other car. So far I’m still a fraction ahead of @Leon Kowalski for now, but I’m sure by the time I post this he’ll have passed me! I saw @sturk0167 in a couple races today as well. Looks like he was trying some different cars from the back.

And for the record, P8 is the worst starting position in Race B this week because the autopilot gives you control halfway through the turn, and who knows where you’re going at that point?!