GT7 Daily Race Discussion

[Famine]

And where have I said otherwise? You starting at the bottom can ONLY GO UP so where you finish will only be UP. Hence your DR bar filling up constantly without interruptions. If you qualified and didn't gain positions or even worse you lost positions, your DR starts dropping. By starting from the bottom you will always finish higher which it will affect your DR and because theres nowhere to go from the very bottom but up, you are constantly gaining those points towards a new level.

No, this is not true.

It doesn't matter how many places you gain, only that you finish ahead of more people than finish ahead of you, regardless of where you start.

If you start 16th out of 6 and gain seven places you will lose DR in almost all cases, not gain it, because you are taking it from seven people but losing it to eight people. If you start 8th and finish 9th in the same race you will lose the exact same amount of DR in that same race, because you are taking it from seven people but losing it to eight people.

It doesn't matter that you can pass seven people because they crashed, you will lose exactly the same amount as if you'd qualified, started eighth, and had a bad start to lose a place, because DR only changes based on your finishing position and the difference in DR scores between those people you beat and those to whom you lose.


Tactically, starting in as high a position as possible is always the best plan. If the seven guys who crash are 1st-7th and you start 8th, you win and gain the most DR possible; if you start 16th, you'll finish 9th and still lose DR. You need to be in a position to take advantage of errors, and being below half way is not the position you want to be in.

I believe you’re just understanding the whole point system incorrectly. So there’s 16 drivers in a lobby different DR ratings maybe a maybe BC who knows. Everybody’s points are put into a pot so there’s only a certain number of points to be earned during the race and they will be doled out upon a percentage of your DR rating and where you finish I believe that’s how it works.🍻

World Series points work like that, but Driver Rating absolutely does not.

Every driver you finish ahead of you take 80 DR, plus ((their DR - your DR)/500), from them.
Every driver you finish behind you lose 80 DR, plus ((your DR - their DR)/500), to them.

Where you start is absolutely immaterial.

 

[AeonGaiden]

I believe you’re just understanding the whole point system incorrectly. So there’s 16 drivers in a lobby different DR ratings maybe a maybe BC who knows. Everybody’s points are put into a pot so there’s only a certain number of points to be earned during the race and they will be doled out upon a percentage of your DR rating and where you finish I believe that’s how it works.🍻

But how do you not understand that at the end of that race, where you say all the points are calculated, you will ALWAYS gain because just by going up 1 position from the bottom, you slightly advanced. Whereas if you maybe dropped in positions after qualifying you lose more points than you gain. You can not go lower than last, therefore you can never lose points. So your DR just keeps going up and up which is not the case where you are qualifying because you never know the outcome of the race.

 

[CmdrParabolus]

Here's what I came up with for testing at Big Willow (the next C race)

Lap time:

Best - Audi TT
+0.347 VW Scirocco
+0.527 Subaru WRX
+0.622 Peugeot RCZ
+0.644 Renault Megane
+0.773 Toyota 86
+0.795 Honda NSX
+0.797 Nissan GTR
+0.813 Mazda Atenza
+0.835 Alfa Romeo 155
+0.837 Hyundai Genesis
+0.853 AMG SLS
+0.922 Alfa Romeo 4C
+0.941 Aston Martin Vantage
+0.976 Lamborghini Huracan
+1.005 Nissan Silvia
+1.060 Lexus RCF
+1.093 Chevrolet Corvette
+1.131 Renault Megane Trophy
+1.269 Mitsubishi Lancer

Fuel economy:

Laps of fuel:

-13.0 Atenza
-13.0 Trophy
-13.0 86
-12.6 RCZ
-12.2 NSX
-12.0 Huracan
-12.0 Lancer
-11.8 4C
-11.6 RCF
-11.0 WRX
-11.0 GTR
-11.0 Megane
-11.0 Scirocco
-11.0 TT
-11.0 Silvia
-10.8 Corvette
-10.8 Vantage
-10.8 Genesis
-10.6 SLS
-10.0 155

Top 10 cars, based on a combined ranking of speed and efficiency:

Avg. ranking

3.0 - RCZ
3.5 - 86
4.0 - TT
4.5 - Scirocco
5.0 - NSX
5.0 - Atenza
5.0 - WRX
6.0 - Megane
7.5 - GTR
9.0 - 4C

*** I did all the driving with auto trans. A manual transmission could certainly do better in terms of fuel-efficiency.
Also, The slipstream will help in the race, so probably not a lot of fuel saving required with the better cars.

Why no Jaguar F type love? Love that car. But in all seriousness this is amazing nice work!

 

[AeonGaiden]

No, this is not true.

It doesn't matter how many places you gain, only that you finish ahead of more people than finish ahead of you, regardless of where you start.

If you start 16th out of 6 and gain seven places you will lose DR in almost all cases, not gain it, because you are taking it from seven people but losing it to eight people. If you start 8th and finish 9th in the same race you will lose the exact same amount of DR in that same race, because you are taking it from seven people but losing it to eight people.

It doesn't matter that you can pass seven people because they crashed, you will lose exactly the same amount as if you'd qualified, started eighth, and had a bad start to lose a place, because DR only changes based on your finishing position and the difference in DR scores between those people you beat and those to whom you lose.


Starting in as high a position as possible is always the best plan. If the seven guys who crash are 1st-7th and you start 8th, you win and gain the most DR possible; if you start 16th, you'll finish 9th and still lose DR. You need to be in a position to take advantage of errors, and being below half way is not the position you want to be in.

Me starting at the bottom and passing 8 drivers, did I not just finish high up and that is exactly what you are saying gets points? I can not lose points if I start at the bottom. Your example you can lose points, my example you CANT lose points to the DR because how can you drop in rating if you are already at the bottom. So all you do is keep going up, qualifying you go back and forth because every race outcome is different. I really dont know how to make this more simple to understand:

Qualifying you risk losing points depending on positions gained or lost.
Starting from the bottom you only gain points....you cant be lower than lowest and if you drive well enough you will never stay lowest but actually finish higher up.

 

[Famine]

Starting from the bottom you only gain points....you cant be lower than lowest and if you drive well enough you will never stay lowest but actually finish higher up.

you CANT lose points to the DR because how can you drop in rating if you are already at the bottom.

But how do you not understand that at the end of that race, where you say all the points are calculated, you will ALWAYS gain because just by going up 1 position from the bottom, you slightly advanced.

Dude, no.

You will still lose DR to everyone that finished ahead of you. If you beat one guy, you'll lose less, because you take it from them, but still lose.

In a race where everyone has identical DR, this is the change in points after the race:
1: +1200
2: +1040
3: +880
4: +720
5: +560
6: +400
7: +240
8: +80
9: -80
10: -240
11: -400
12: -560
13: -720
14: -880
15: -1040
16: -1200

Start 16th, gain one place, lose 1040 DR. You do not gain it, you lose it because fourteen other people took points off you and you gained them from one person.

The only time you won't lose DR is if you have no DR to lose, because your DR ranking is D and your rating is one point - and in your first five races at DR E - although people will still gain the appropriate number of points for finishing ahead of you. Otherwise it goes up and down exactly like I say.

This is literally how it works. It has been known and well established for more than five years. Where. You. Start. Does. Not. Matter.

 

[TheNormsk]

Dude, no.

You will still lose DR to everyone that finished ahead of you. If you beat one guy, you'll lose less, because you take it from them, but still lose.

In a race where everyone has identical DR, this is the change in points after the race:
1: +1200
2: +1040
3: +880
4: +720
5: +560
6: +400
7: +240
8: +80
9: -80
10: -240
11: -400
12: -560
13: -720
14: -880
15: -1040
16: -1200

Start 16th, gain one place, lose 1040 DR. You do not gain it, you lose it because fourteen other people took points off you and you gained them from one person.

The only time you won't lose DR is if you have no DR to lose, because your DR ranking is D and your rating is one point - and in your first five races at DR E - although people will still gain the appropriate number of points for finishing ahead of you. Otherwise it goes up and down exactly like I say.

This is literally how it works. It has been known and well established for more than five years. Where. You. Start. Does. Not. Matter.

That really puts it into perspective. I just did the kudosprime thing to figure out my DR and my lowly 6700 could disappear very fast if I ended up in the last spots in a number of races. That's kind of scary. That makes me want to do a couple more Race C's tonight though, as that's a race I've been doing okay in for the most part..

 

[hollowkatt]

If you guys want to improve your DR just dont qualify for the race and you'll start at the bottom. If you have good skills you can climb up the positions easily. Theres always that group that crashes in the first corner or become too greedy for space so they spin out. I sometimes even went up by 8 or 9 places by the end of the race. You wont get top 3 (unless you are lucky) but your DR will raise much faster because starting at the bottom, any improvement you make will be a plus.

Whereas qualifying and losing positions hurts your DR. I think once you are in the A category then flex with times because at least you know most people there have good sportsmanship.

The last time we had GR.3 at Red Bull Ring this was my exact strategy. Farmed DR (and SR) that entire week. Never did get to A DR but got to a high B. Often times I'd find myself starting 14 or lower and finishing between 5-8. Not too bad, had a good time doing it. Might try the same at Dragon Trail Gardens Reverse this week. It's got some choke points but none of them are super early in the lap so maybe it won't work as well. RBR it was great b/c T1 was always a disaster and T3 wasn't much better.

EDIT to Add:
The reason I didn't qualify that week was because my QT time (tested by running almost to the end of the lap and recording the time and adding a few bits to it) would have put me mid-pack no matter what else I was doing, which is where the chaos was.
Would it be possible to QT 7th and finish in 6th? Sure. But just as likely to be taken out between T1 or T3.

Starting from the back minimized that potential and increased my potential for gains from others misfortune. Has nothing to do with extra passes for position and everything to do with minimizing potential loss. When it stopped working (towards the end of the week when people settled down) I set a QT and just ran as normal.

 

[TheNormsk]

..would have put me mid-pack no matter what else I was doing, which is where the chaos was.
Would it be possible to QT 7th and finish in 6th? Sure. But just as likely to be taken out between T1 or T3.

Being taken out the first 1/2 off lap 1 has been my frustration with Race B this week.

Then again, if I’d started at the back then I’d have finished near the back as it was very hard to pass there this week.

 

[hollowkatt]

Being taken out the first 1/2 off lap 1 has been my frustration with Race B this week.

Then again, if I’d started at the back then I’d have finished near the back as it was very hard to pass there this week.

yeah for sure. Sometimes a race just isn't worth the aggravation it causes. When that happens either I sit out a week, like I did this week b/c A and C weren't appealing, or I do one of the races that is appealing. Next week I'm probably doing Garden Trail because I'm not a fan of Willow even though I really like GR.4 more than GR.3

 

[RacingGrandpa]

It's almost amusing to see @Famine banging on about this. We, who has raced since a long time in GTS knows this to true but yet there's always someone thinking you gain more for starting in the back and finishing, say p8, than by qualifying and finishing p8 where you started. It is the exact same number of points.

I am going to venture out on a limb and say that the people thinking it's more beneficial to not qualify race in the exact same manner as they qualify, as if they are alone on the track.

 

[TheNormsk]

yeah for sure. Sometimes a race just isn't worth the aggravation it causes. When that happens either I sit out a week, like I did this week b/c A and C weren't appealing, or I do one of the races that is appealing. Next week I'm probably doing Garden Trail because I'm not a fan of Willow even though I really like GR.4 more than GR.3

I actually loved A but didn’t race it much after I had a string of victories as it was a non DR/SR race so I invested my time in C instead. That proved fruitful, even though I was never able to replicate my 2:14 QT after getting it. My consistency was in the 2:17s with spurts in the 2:16s and 2:15s (but never race).

For next week I’ll probably skip Willow Springs as well. Really don’t like that course…

In a race where everyone has identical DR, this is the change in points after the race:
1: +1200
2: +1040
3: +880
4: +720
5: +560
6: +400
7: +240
8: +80
9: -80
10: -240
11: -400
12: -560
13: -720
14: -880
15: -1040
16: -1200

I ended up doing another Race C and came in 4th, where I started. Based on kudosprime I gained 840 pts. That would make sense as most of the field was B rated and I was the highest C.

The Sileighties are fast and have much better brakes than my car. Makes me wonder how much better I could have done with that... Though realistically, my car was pretty strong. It just needed a better driver.. LOL.

 

[Monkey Man]

Wuddun mate.

 

[Leon Kowalski]

The Sileighties are fast and have much better brakes than my car. Makes me wonder how much better I could have done with that... Though realistically, my car was pretty strong. It just needed a better driver.. LOL.

It's not about the brakes alone, but the tuning in general. I had a fairly good week with with a Sileighty, Praianos tuning, basically without brakes 😆 (which means: standard brakes and brake pads on a high powered car). That led to some, err, interesting moments in the braking zones. But apart from that, the car was really fast, and the driver didn't mess it up as much as expected. 😇

 

[ILLEAGLE_34]

No, this is not true.

It doesn't matter how many places you gain, only that you finish ahead of more people than finish ahead of you, regardless of where you start.

If you start 16th out of 6 and gain seven places you will lose DR in almost all cases, not gain it, because you are taking it from seven people but losing it to eight people. If you start 8th and finish 9th in the same race you will lose the exact same amount of DR in that same race, because you are taking it from seven people but losing it to eight people.

It doesn't matter that you can pass seven people because they crashed, you will lose exactly the same amount as if you'd qualified, started eighth, and had a bad start to lose a place, because DR only changes based on your finishing position and the difference in DR scores between those people you beat and those to whom you lose.


Tactically, starting in as high a position as possible is always the best plan. If the seven guys who crash are 1st-7th and you start 8th, you win and gain the most DR possible; if you start 16th, you'll finish 9th and still lose DR. You need to be in a position to take advantage of errors, and being below half way is not the position you want to be in.

World Series points work like that, but Driver Rating absolutely does not.

Every driver you finish ahead of you take 80 DR, plus ((their DR - your DR)/500), from them.
Every driver you finish behind you lose 80 DR, plus ((your DR - their DR)/500), to them.

Where you start is absolutely immaterial.

Oh I completely understand it doesn’t matter where you start. I’m very interested in the math equation, so what’s the most you can gain or lose 580 points? I’m honestly interested to know that the equation I think I’m misunderstanding the way you wrote it out.thanks 🍻

 

[D_Dragline]

Oh I completely understand it doesn’t matter where you start. I’m very interested in the math equation, so what’s the most you can gain or lose 580 points? I’m honestly interested to know that the equation I think I’m misunderstanding the way you wrote it out.thanks 🍻

If you’re on 1 DR and the other 15 are on 100000 DR, and you win, that’s 280 DR from each of the 15 opponents. So maximum theoretical gain is 4200.

 

[gigio79]

You can be a great driver with a pad or with a wheel. GT7 world championship drivers can use ONLY wheel, the fastest drivers of GT7 around the world use wheel and pedal set.

 

[diablopug]

Think with the theory of not qualifying you start with slower drivers in your class.
More chance of of gaining places. Especially if your a C or D DR.
I've not qualified and seen the pole time.
Next race I've set a qualifying time within 0.5 sec reach of previous pole. A Top 3 time.
Next race I start mid pack, pole is 2 secs quicker than previous pole.
Theory is the group you are put with based on your qualifying time decides on your chance where you will finish. No time should equal slower drivers theoretically

 

[LVS_1986]

So if I start PP and win a race I dont gain any DR beacause I didnt gain any position, sounds logic😂

 

[Redneckchef]

I like Big Willow and races with multiple strategy so ventured into the desert for a run. Did about 5 or 6 laps in the Audi to qualify and then grabbed my 86 to see how it went. Started p2 with a 1:17.7, behind a Cayman. Decided to try the 1 stop so slapped on Mediums and off we went. Passed them in turn 2 and started gapping the field. Got to 2 seconds, then I would make minor mistakes and someone would gain, then they would wreck or make their own mistakes and get a penalty. Finally my mistakes caught up and I got passed starting lap 14 by an RCZ. We both pitted end of the lap. They were out of fuel, ai had enough for the last lap. It was enough to grab the spot from them. But the Cayman ran a no stop on Hards and made zero mistakes and drafted everyone and everything that got in front of them so they took a great win.

Had several people pitting by lap 8 already out of fuel, and a couple with the 1 minute tire penalty. All in all a fun race, and the slight mix of stratehy helps. If I cam gap everyone technically I should be able to pull a big enough gap, but just like for the Cayman (which is a right rocket in slipstream) it all has to go well.

Have fun out there and avoid the sand.

 

[djolliea]

Think with the theory of not qualifying you start with slower drivers in your class.
More chance of of gaining places. Especially if your a C or D DR.
I've not qualified and seen the pole time.
Next race I've set a qualifying time within 0.5 sec reach of previous pole. A Top 3 time.
Next race I start mid pack, pole is 2 secs quicker than previous pole.
Theory is the group you are put with based on your qualifying time decides on your chance where you will finish. No time should equal slower drivers theoretically

Starting from the bottom theoretically means you have to gain at least 8 places to gain and not loose DR.

 

[diablopug]

Starting from the bottom theoretically means you have to gain at least 8 places to gain and not loose DR.

Yes, but if your pace is more of the higher DR rating say top end of C lower end of B.
And you don't qualify your 'should' be put with the lower end of C. But your pace is towards the top end. If you qualify you will be racing against higher C & lower B drivers.
I've had similar. I was a B DR. But had 3 bad races 2 of where game froze in warmup. Had to leave/restart console. 1 game I quit as was last after being taken out too many time.
Normally if I'm doing poorly I will finish the race. As sometimes people drop out.

 

[Primmy]

i enjoyed the Daily C last week...i used a Praiano tune (thanks!!!!) for the 180SX as i didnt have the meta Sileighty...did pretty well moving from a CS to BS including one race win...however when i got to B lobbies i was punted off (nearly) every race as the Sileighty drivers pushed to pass or just blatently pit manouvered me to get by.
Each car has its own strengths and weaknesses and other drivers need to take that into account...
i admit the 180SX wasnt the fastest in a straight line but it did handle well and pulled away in the esses..B rated drivers just didnt seem to care how they got past, just as long as they did...

 

[benjoi84]

Reading a lot of these posts it's starting to become clear the reason for 'certain' driving styles.

Please remember folks, DR is a matchmaking system to (theoretically) put you up against players of equal level. It's not a contest to see who gets the most.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

It's not a contest to see who gets the most.

Blasphemy!

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

I was thinking of giving one more try at getting into the top 10 worldwide for race C at Suzuka but a lot of the fastest people in the world were beating each others times for first near the end so I knew I had no shot at top 10 by then. Finishing 19th though less than 1.5 seconds off arguably the best driver in GT history, Igor Fraga, while still using my same non glitched tune at a track I never considered myself very good at I'm still very happy about. I may try the Viper at Big Willow this week but I'll see how others do with it first.

 

[Famine]

Theory is the group you are put with based on your qualifying time

It kind of falls down at this very early point. Qualifying time plays no role in matchmaking; matchmaking is done on the basis of SR first, then DR.

All the highest-rated players by SR (I think 95-99, but it might be 90-99; I don't really recall, but it's the very top of the S rank) are put into a big pot and then drawn out in descending order of DR. After that the next bracket of SR is put into a big pot and drawn out in descending order of DR. And so on until the bottom SR bracket.

 

[Tidgney]

This weeks races are amazing, good strategy, good racing! I love it !

 

[Talon16]

Me starting at the bottom and passing 8 drivers, did I not just finish high up and that is exactly what you are saying gets points? I can not lose points if I start at the bottom. Your example you can lose points, my example you CANT lose points to the DR because how can you drop in rating if you are already at the bottom. So all you do is keep going up, qualifying you go back and forth because every race outcome is different. I really dont know how to make this more simple to understand:

Qualifying you risk losing points depending on positions gained or lost.
Starting from the bottom you only gain points....you cant be lower than lowest and if you drive well enough you will never stay lowest but actually finish higher up.

My man, you need to take a step back and just admit/realize you are wrong. It's literally math that's coded into the game. There is no debate. Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but your starting position and how many people you pass does not matter. If it did, no one would set a quali time.

If you start P16 and finish P15 you've passed one person; if you start on pole and finish P1 you've passed no one. The latter will get you more points every time. Heck, even in that example you could start on pole and finish P14 and get more points than starting last and finishing P15. Just because you make an in-race pass, does not mean you're finishing higher up than you would've if you qualified well. Get it?

2+3=5. Doesn't matter how much you argue it doesn't, it does.

Dude, no.

You will still lose DR to everyone that finished ahead of you. If you beat one guy, you'll lose less, because you take it from them, but still lose.

In a race where everyone has identical DR, this is the change in points after the race:
1: +1200
2: +1040
3: +880
4: +720
5: +560
6: +400
7: +240
8: +80
9: -80
10: -240
11: -400
12: -560
13: -720
14: -880
15: -1040
16: -1200

Start 16th, gain one place, lose 1040 DR. You do not gain it, you lose it because fourteen other people took points off you and you gained them from one person.

The only time you won't lose DR is if you have no DR to lose, because your DR ranking is D and your rating is one point - and in your first five races at DR E - although people will still gain the appropriate number of points for finishing ahead of you. Otherwise it goes up and down exactly like I say.

This is literally how it works. It has been known and well established for more than five years. Where. You. Start. Does. Not. Matter.

Highlight, right-click, copy, open Notepad, paste, save. This is good stuff.

 

[Famine]

This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Gran Turismo 7 Daily Races: Where There’s a Willow…​

A new week means a new set of Gran Turismo 7 Daily Races, with three races running on their usual 20-30 minute schedules for the next seven days...

 

[OJBrit]

And where have I said otherwise? You starting at the bottom can ONLY GO UP so where you finish will only be UP. Hence your DR bar filling up constantly without interruptions. If you qualified and didn't gain positions or even worse you lost positions, your DR starts dropping. By starting from the bottom you will always finish higher which it will affect your DR and because theres nowhere to go from the very bottom but up, you are constantly gaining those points towards a new level.

I never said starting from the bottom gets you points, I said starting from the bottom you will always pass other drivers guaranteed and THAT will determine your finish result and your finishing points. With qualifying you run the risk of having a bad race and you just backtrack in points.

OBVIOUSLY if you are in the A or S category, that is not your game-plan because you know you are running a race with a tight bunch with good sportsmanship so you are qualifying and going after the top 3 places.

How would starting last and gaining 3 places yield more points from 12 other drivers taking my points rather than starting and finishing 6th where only 5 other drivers take my points?
Listen to Famine. He is 100% correct. This time.