GT7 Daily Race Discussion

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Some of you know I have thankfully started working again after the pre Xmas job loss...

So my time on GT has dwindled (and rightly so, I have job can't be slobbering around playing GT all day anymore šŸ¤£)

But I'm quite pleased

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@GrumpyOldMan i hope you are feeling better mate šŸ‘ also sadly I'm currently a B/A driver so over achieving a bit more than being SR S šŸ˜
 
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DR algorithm is a piece of crap IMO. Just did a Race B, started 16th, as my QT was a good second behind the rest of the field. Fair enough, the system allocates the race places according to the players available, but by any metric if you finish ahead of where you start that should be positive. I finished 11th so basically finished ahead of 1/3rd of the field I started behind, but guess, what my DR went down. Doesnā€™t seem right to meā€¦
 
DR algorithm is a piece of crap IMO. Just did a Race B, started 16th, as my QT was a good second behind the rest of the field. Fair enough, the system allocates the race places according to the players available, but by any metric if you finish ahead of where you start that should be positive. I finished 11th so basically finished ahead of 1/3rd of the field I started behind, but guess, what my DR went down. Doesnā€™t seem right to meā€¦
You finished behind 10 cars... I don't see why you should gain DR? You only finished ahead of 5.
That's 10 drivers taking DR from you, and you only taking it from 5.
 
DR algorithm is a piece of crap IMO. Just did a Race B, started 16th, as my QT was a good second behind the rest of the field. Fair enough, the system allocates the race places according to the players available, but by any metric if you finish ahead of where you start that should be positive. I finished 11th so basically finished ahead of 1/3rd of the field I started behind, but guess, what my DR went down. Doesnā€™t seem right to meā€¦
I don't think the algorithm is as linear as many think it is. As I understand it, how DR is distributed is largely determined by who is in the room. I've started 10th, finished 7th and lost DR. Other times I've started 4th, finished 8th and gained DR. Then there's the ultimate kick in the face...people who finish first and STILL lose DR. Sucks to be ranked A+ when EVERYONE ELSE is ranked D - B.šŸ¤£

I know this is the 'impossible task' and all, BUT, try not to focus on the DR +/- from race to race. For me it caused a TON of frustration so I decided it was better to play the 'long game' and let the rank be what it's gonna be. Easier said than done, I know.

I also realized another important point, my driving SUCKS (even more) while clenching my teeth/angry.šŸ˜

:cheers:
 
You finished behind 10 cars... I don't see why you should gain DR? You only finished ahead of 5.
That's 10 drivers taking DR from you, and you only taking it from 5.
By that method if you start anywhere in the last 5 of a field what is the point in racing? Youā€™re there just to give DR to others, unless you perform exceptionally, whereas someone who starts in the front 5 merely has to hold positions to gain DR.
From a bit of googling it seems your DR gain/loss is affected by the DR of the players you beat and lose to, which is fine, but doesnā€™t take into account you starting position, which to my mind is an oversimplification.

Hey ho, I must remind myself, itā€™s only a game!
 
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By that method if you start anywhere in the last 5 of a field what is the point in racing? Youā€™re there just to give DR to others, unless you perform exceptionally, whereas someone who starts in the front 5 merely has to hold positions to gain DR.
It's a simple equation

Basically if you are a C driver full of A+ and you finish last you'll lose less DR because the weighting is for them to beat you.

If you beat a full room of A+ as a DR C you'll gain a bucket load.

Now in reality, the lobbies are more balanced.

Higher DR is expected to place higher, so when they don't they lose more DR, conversely lower DR is expected to finish lower so they gain more if they win and lose less if they place where they should relatively speaking.

DNF hits both hard though.

Think of it this way, as the underdog newly promoted in to a league they understand that and effectively work to lessen the losses.

Being the favorite league winner you lose more if you don't perform to the capability.

There are numbers behind the scenes but that's just metrics

Edit:

Famine can clear this up for the 11th million time
 
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By that method if you start anywhere in the last 5 of a field what is the point in racing?
This is a strange take. You race because racing is fun. The DR is only there to matchmake you? It's not like it progresses you in the game, it just determines who you get matched with.

If you're coming towards the back end of a pack, you lose DR because the grid is too fast for you, and losing DR means you will next be matchmade into a grid where you have a closer fight.
That's all it's there for. It shouldn't be what drives you to race, because all it is trying to do is put you in a good lobby for your skill.
 
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This is a strange take. You race because racing is fun. The DR is only there to matchmake you? It's not like it progresses you in the game, it just determines who you get matched with.

If you're coming towards the back end of a pack, you lose DR because the grid is too fast for you, and losing DR means you will next be matchmade into a grid where you have a closer fight.
That's all it's there for. It shouldn't be what drives you to race, because all it is trying to do is put you in a good lobby for your skill.
DR and SR is a reflection of performance over time. It does not define you but as you say is used as a tool to compare apples and apples. Rather than a random free for all.
 
By that method if you start anywhere in the last 5 of a field what is the point in racing? Youā€™re there just to give DR to others, unless you perform exceptionally, whereas someone who starts in the front 5 merely has to hold positions to gain DR.
From a bit of googling it seems your DR gain/loss is affected by the DR of the players you beat and lose to, which is fine, but doesnā€™t take into account you starting position, which to my mind is an oversimplification.

Hey ho, I must remind myself, itā€™s only a game!
This is the definition of Dunning-Kreuger effect:

  • You have no idea, mathematically, how the system works but are convinced you know it's wrong.
  • You then have the system explained to you in simple terms, and you still think the system is wrong, because it was explained to you in simple terms.

Starting position isn't considered, because if it was - none of those guys starting at the front would be starting at the front, they'd be sandbagging at the back. Now you've created an even bigger problem with high ranked drivers sandbagging their qualifiers and running back through the field and gaining even more DR (thus taking MORE from you) than they would have otherwise. It is easier to game your starting position than your total accumulated DR, in each individual race.

You are thinking about a system for the first time, that has been thought about other people for decades (Elo rating has been used officially by chess for over 50 years).
 
It would be nice if we could be matchmaked with our friends or with anyone we want. PD shouldn't need to choose what lobbies we race in. Well anyways I improved my time at Spa, I'm in the 2'36.000's. I still have tons of work to do, I'm at the bottom of my friends leaderboard.
 
It would be nice if we could be matchmaked with our friends or with anyone we want. PD shouldn't need to choose what lobbies we race in. Well anyways I improved my time at Spa, I'm in the 2'36.000's. I still have tons of work to do, I'm at the bottom of my friends leaderboard.
you can do that in regular multiplayer at any time, ranked multiplayer is pretty clearly not the place for pre-arranged lobbies. PD choosing which lobbies you are in is quite literally the central function of ranked multiplayer
 
Thank you for your responses, you are absolutely right in that the formula achieves itā€™s goal over pairing players with others of a similar level. To be fair, my harsh assessment of the formula was probably in part due to having consumed a bottle of wine over dinner with my wife before playing and writing. Donā€™t drink and drive, kids!:D Happy Valentines! šŸ˜‚

This is the definition of Dunning-Kreuger effect:

  • You have no idea, mathematically, how the system works but are convinced you know it's wrong.
  • You then have the system explained to you in simple terms, and you still think the system is wrong, because it was explained to you in simple terms.
Bit patronising and inaccurate, but thanks anyway.
 
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@GrumpyOldMan i hope you are feeling better mate šŸ‘ also sadly I'm currently a B/A driver so over achieving a bit more than being SR S šŸ˜
Thanks, man. This cough is hanging on and is a stubborn SOB. Fortunately, I don't mind missing Spa this week because I can never drive it very well. But I've done exactly 1 race in the last two racing weeks, and I'm jonesing. I tried some Q laps, and it's just a total disaster.

As for you still being a B driver, I honestly am befuddled. You qualify like an alien and race as bad as I do. Even though you're kind of my hero in one respect, I'd rather be bad at qualifying and good at racing. I don't even know if this makes sense - I think it does, but my head's full of cotton.
 
By that method if you start anywhere in the last 5 of a field what is the point in racing? Youā€™re there just to give DR to others, unless you perform exceptionally, whereas someone who starts in the front 5 merely has to hold positions to gain DR.
From a bit of googling it seems your DR gain/loss is affected by the DR of the players you beat and lose to, which is fine, but doesnā€™t take into account you starting position, which to my mind is an oversimplification.

Hey ho, I must remind myself, itā€™s only a game!
Copy/pasted from another thread from a while back. An explanation from Famine as he was conveying this to someone else - who kept arguing as memory serves - so some may be a bit out of context here, but you'll get the idea. I saved it as this seems to come up often. Regardless, this is how it works (I bolded the part that sums it up quite nicely in one sentence)...

____________________________________________________________

if you beat higher rated drivers (eg you are rated 1000 and everyone above you is rated 10,000) you are getting a DR change of ([80 + 900] / 500) from the drivers you beat. This works out to be a smaller number if the difference in DR between you and the other driver is smaller, if it was only a difference of 100 DR then it'd be [80 + 100] / 500 instead.

Therefore, beating higher ranked drivers gives you a bigger DR adjustment, as the difference between your DR and their DR is a core part of the final value.

DR is solely determined by your race finishing positions: a straightforward exchange of points between you, the people you beat, and people who beat you, scaled according to the relative difference in points between you.

But you do. The further ahead they are of you in terms of raw DR points, the less you lose, but you do lose points to them unless the difference is
enormous.

For every car you finish in front of you gain: 80 - ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

For every car you finish behind, you lose: 80 + ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

As you can see, unless the difference is in excess of 39,500pt, you'll lose at least one point.

In a race where everyone has identical DR, this is the change in points after the race:
1: +1200
2: +1040
3: +880
4: +720
5: +560
6: +400
7: +240
8: +80
9: -80
10: -240
11: -400
12: -560
13: -720
14: -880
15: -1040
16: -1200

Start 16th, gain one place, lose 1040 DR. You do not gain it, you lose it because fourteen other people took points off you and you gained them from one person.

The only time you won't lose DR is if you have no DR to lose, because your DR ranking is D and your rating is one point - and in your first five races at DR E - although people will still gain the appropriate number of points for finishing ahead of you. Otherwise it goes up and down exactly like I say.

This is literally how it works. It has been known and well established for more than five years. Where. You. Start. Does. Not. Matter.
 
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Back for more action in Race C. I still can't string a good lap to improve my time, but it's close to what I set so at least I'm in the area.

I'm P13 on the grid but everyone aside from the Top 3 is within .5 seconds of each other so it wasn't as bad as I thought. Thanks to some spins and off tracks I find myself in P7 briefly. A car almost gets loose exiting the Dunlop Curve and I had to check up as I had no where to go. I fall to P9 and everyone keeps going. On lap 4 I have a huge spin on the exit of 130R and my race is ruined. As soon as I was on the go pedal I knew I was going around. I didn't quit as I was hoping that a few drivers would leave or had a spin like I had. I then get dumped for no reason around lap 11 and the driver who hit me just drives away. But they have a spin in Spoon a few laps later and I take P12 at that point. Couldn't have happened to a better driver. I do finish P11 as a driver dropped out on lap 19.

This was a much more aggressive race as compared to yesterday. Lots of lap 1 heroes trying to barge their way through the field. No reason to do that in my opinion.
 
Iā€™m at a 1.59.8 In my Ferrari 458ā€¦ My question to you guys isā€¦ when you watch the track guidesā€¦ the first turn they tell you to brake around the 50 markā€¦ however when you watch the top guys they are braking way past it maybe like 45/40ā€¦ Obviously these guys are the cream of the cropā€¦. But like damn I need some help lol!! Iā€™m a high A in my DR ranking so my room are full of A+ drivers who are clocking in at mid to high 58 and I even just races a 57ā€¦ any input would be great full! I just seen somebody post a 1:57.8 with the 458 so I know itā€™s gotta be me lol.
 
Haven't raced yet as RL keeps me busy. I enjoy the Gr4 class so I have been turning laps at Spa. I'm a Dr C and I try to find something that's not the "go to" car. So I took a few out to see what direction I will go. Each car had 2 laps just to get a feel for them. Here is the results.
 
Haven't raced yet as RL keeps me busy. I enjoy the Gr4 class so I have been turning laps at Spa. I'm a Dr C and I try to find something that's not the "go to" car. So I took a few out to see what direction I will go. Each car had 2 laps just to get a feel for them. Here is the results.

Love the way you flash at the crowd on the kemmel straight, I find myself doing that and appreciate the guy standing waving his arms!

I usually stick with the car I get the fastest time on, which was the 458 earlier in the week until I hit the 650, it just drives so well šŸ˜
 
It would be nice if we could be matchmaked with our friends or with anyone we want. PD shouldn't need to choose what lobbies we race in. Well anyways I improved my time at Spa, I'm in the 2'36.000's. I still have tons of work to do, I'm at the bottom of my friends leaderboard.
I can understand what youā€™re saying and would be a cool feature, but that then just opens up other issues and problems I think. People will then abuse the system and start to abuse the DR. If you had a friend who was only DR B, and you then have a system where you can get your mates in who are say A+ & A, you can then abuse the system to allow your DR B friend to gain DR.
Iā€™m a DR B driver and Iā€™m one result away from DR A, but Iā€™ve had to earn that DR over the last 2 years.

Thank you for your responses, you are absolutely right in that the formula achieves its goal over pairing players with others of a similar level. To be fair, my harsh assessment of the formula was probably in part due to having consumed a bottle of wine over dinner with my wife before playing and writing. Donā€™t drink and drive, kids!:D Happy Valentines! šŸ˜‚


Bit patronising and inaccurate, but thanks anyway.
As others have said above, DR is just a progression system that keep similar skilled drivers in an equal playing field. This way you should have better races. Iā€™ve done some lobby racing with DR A+ & A drivers, and while I can hold my own at some tracks and do very well, the majority and Iā€™m way off pace.
The big problem daily races has, is the big spread of DR between players at times. If they are not enough of similar skilled level drivers, then you get paired up with whatā€™s left and unfortunately if your a lower ranked driver in a higher rank lobby then yeah running at the back can feel very pointless.
 
I can understand what youā€™re saying and would be a cool feature, but that then just opens up other issues and problems I think. People will then abuse the system and start to abuse the DR. If you had a friend who was only DR B, and you then have a system where you can get your mates in who are say A+ & A, you can then abuse the system to allow your DR B friend to gain DR.
Iā€™m a DR B driver and Iā€™m one result away from DR A, but Iā€™ve had to earn that DR over the last 2 years.


As others have said above, DR is just a progression system that keep similar skilled drivers in an equal playing field. This way you should have better races. Iā€™ve done some lobby racing with DR A+ & A drivers, and while I can hold my own at some tracks and do very well, the majority and Iā€™m way off pace.
The big problem daily races has, is the big spread of DR between players at times. If they are not enough of similar skilled level drivers, then you get paired up with whatā€™s left and unfortunately if your a lower ranked driver in a higher rank lobby then yeah running at the back can feel very pointless.
I forgot about that part, the abusing. Well I'll just have to deal with what we've got here.
 
Still loving Race C this week. Got two more race in last night, in the 7 and 8PM EST slots of the Americas. Driving the Porsche in both. Still have the same 2:01.172 QT I had yesterday.

Race 1: Started in P9. Got bumped into the sand on Degna 1 on the first lap when I braked a little early to avoid bumping the car ahead into the sand. The driver did not wait up. No matter. Once I was back on the track, I set myself the goal of regaining my starting position. After pitting for tires on lap 9, I had managed to get back to P10 -- mostly from other cars going off the track, but I also made a couple overtakes that I felt pretty good about. I found myself about a second behind a pair of drivers that were pretty close in pace to me. I spent the rest of the race chasing them. Around lap 18, though, I noticed I had gained a position and was now in P9. A car ahead had quit the race. Having reached my goal, I let up a bit, but I still wanted to see if I could gain something more so pressed on to close the gap to the pair ahead. The opportunity came in the final exit from 130R. The lead car in the pair went off the track and into the wall, handing me an easy P8 finish.

Race 2: Started in P6. Survived lap 1, and gained a couple spots along the way. I felt I had a better pace than the car ahead of me and was starting to entertain the idea of a podium finish. But it wasn't meant to be. In lap 2, I made a mess of Degna 2 and gave up a couple positions. I spent the rest of the race around that P6 position, always close enough to other drivers to be either challenging or defending. I pitted on lap 10 for tires. By the final lap, I found myself third in a group of 4 cars fighting for P4. And then it happened. The lead car went deep into the green stuff at Casio triangle. The car ahead of me slowed down to avoid them. I had the better exit and the opportunity to beat them both to the finish. I tried to squeeze by on the inside, but there wasn't really enough room and I ended up making contact, destabilizing my car enough to lose any advantage I had in momentum. Meanwhile, the other two cars took the outside line and flew past. I finished in P7, howling in delight at the chaos.

Great fun! It's going to be sad when this week is done.
 
I forgot about that part, the abusing. Well I'll just have to deal with what we've got here.
It sucks. Iā€™ve been starting from the back this week in Daily C and no matter how many times I go quicker in TT, they always seems to be quicker people ahead.
I thought I was quite decent at Suzuka but guess not šŸ¤£
 
Great fun! It's going to be sad when this week is done.
I'm so with you on this.

While I've had mixed results from the beginning, I feel like I've found a groove. I've had a few laps during a race where I've been in the 2:00.0xx range which is actually faster than my qualifying time. The ability to continue to drive, approach, catch, pass repeat over the course of 20 laps makes this race (on a track that isn't my favorite) one of my all-time favorite daily race combinations.
 
Pff 1st race this week and thought I was off to a good start lol.

Put in some laps before dinner last night and today, hopped into 2nd account to see how the racing actually is. Matched my time of 1:30:01 (lots of room for improvement) and started on pole.

P2 behind me was fast but I was better on the twisty bits. I gain 0.5s in sector 3 then he makes it up on the straights via slipstream, then I gap him again, etc.

On the last lap, he started to dive-bomb but managed to avoid him. Then on the final corner of the last lap, from 0.6s behind he just lunges and hits me as I am turning! I managed to hold the car somehow and he bangs into me again as we turn left on the start/ finish!

P3 behind just strolls through to take the lead and I am now being blocked by the donkey, who remained in P2. Thankfully, in the short sprint to the line, he overcooks it and skids, allowing me to finish in P2 ahead by half a car. What the hell?!

And the cherry on the cake is that his donkey logic ended up having him finish in P3 instead of his original P2 lol. Or so I thought... he got some karma and a massive penalty as the race finished and he was ranked out of the top 12 in the end āš°ļø šŸ˜‚

For once, PD got it right!

PS - I did start on pole but didn't wait for the thing to update before taking the screenshot and rush to the lobby! Wanted to make sure he didn't leave before informing him that he is, in fact, a donkey! :D

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Finally managed a race win in B this week, chuffed with it as m canā€™t remember how many times I almost won or got a p2/p3 and usually my lobbies have at least someone in with a 2.29 which is a little beyond my skill set!

But this time by way of a chap who had a 4 sec lead once I cleared p2 throughout the race only to spin it on the last corner! Poor sod
 

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